How to Stand Out in Business Through Authentic Branding and Networking | RR298

Paige, Hello everyone, and welcome to this

week's episode of relationships rule. My guest today is Paige

arnoff Finn, and she is the founder and CEO of global

branding and digital marketing firm called mavens and moguls,

and is based in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Her clients

include Microsoft virgin, The New York Times Company, Colgate,

venture backed startups as well as nonprofits. They run the

gamut, and she actually made me when I read your when I read

Paige's bio, I was a little intimidated. She graduated from

Stanford. She did. She also went to Harvard Business School. And

I'm like, What can I ask this woman? Alright, but and she

serves on various boards, and has served on various very

influential boards, is a popular speaker and common columnist who

has written for entrepreneur and Forbes magazine. Welcome to the

show page.

Paige Arnof-Fenn: Thank you, Janice, for having me. I'm super

excited to talk to you today.

Oh, absolutely. But there's so many things that

I'm like. Does this person really want to talk to me?

That's how I was feeling. But I do know that stalked you, yeah.

And I do know that, you know that we had a great first

conversation, and I really enjoyed it, and so I'm sure that

there are things that you can share with my audience that will

be useful, educational and entertaining as well. And I'm

going to start with a question that sort of says a lot in a

little bit, but I think, I think we'll start here. I know that

you back in the early days, you were in the big corporate world,

companies like Coca Cola and Procter and Gamble and you sort

of, what did they say bit? Oh, what did they say? Cut your

teeth, that you cut your teeth in those in those companies, and

that you worked also for Zipcar, Zipcar to Coca Cola, and if you

had to start completely from scratch today, no connections,

no brand recognition, what is the very first thing that you

would do to build A successful business and make meaningful

connections?

Paige Arnof-Fenn: Excellent question. So I think the number

one thing that I've always relied on is my network. And I

know you're big on relationships than I am, too. I feel like, you

know, I got great training. I P and G and coke are like

Marketing Boot Camp. I mean, you know, you are in the trenches,

and you are learning from the Masters P and G created the

concept of brand management. You know, you just work your way up

the food chain and you learn absolutely all the pieces. Is it

still like that today? I'm guessing it is, yeah, I was

there before the internet and digital marketing. So like when

I started at P and G, we would do a lot of market research. P

and G is probably the most data driven company in the world, and

market research to them was always statistically

significant. Like, you know, you would talk to 1000 or more

people, and, you know, do quantitative analysis and

qualitative you do focus groups, and, you know, it's amazing. You

get a lot of rich insight and data and information, but it

takes a long time. I mean, it could take six months, nine

months or longer, when you work for the startups, the zip cars

of the world, you don't have the luxury of time. If you waited

six or nine months to do research in a startup life that

kind of money left. Yeah, you'd have no money, and the market

would have shifted, and whatever you found wouldn't even be

relevant anymore. So it's just a very different approach, right?

And I think talking to the customers critical learning from

your kind of primary, secondary, tertiary audiences. But I think

just leveraging your network is so important, because whether

you're working for a small company or a big company, your

network kind of, can point you in the right direction. They can

make key introductions. They can serve as a sounding board, kind

of, you know, create an ecosystem around you to make

sure that you've got your cheerleaders and butt kickers

and kind of you know your tribe around you to say you know

you're you're asking the right questions, or you're really

missing the point. Or what about this? So for me, it really does

come down to having a network of people that know you. You and

trust you, and you trust them, and you know that you can kind

of take baby steps and learn and connect your way to success.

So if you come across a new a new prospect, a

new client, that that you can see they need that kind of

strategy to grow their business, but they don't have it yet. They

don't have a huge network. What do you do? You teach them? How

do you show them what strategies to use to help build their

network? And what would you what would you recommend to them?

Paige Arnof-Fenn: So great brands are really built from the

inside out. So before you can go out and kind of have your coming

out party and introduce yourself to the world, you need to make

sure you've built a solid foundation for your for your

business, for your brand. And I think it's very natural when

people come to me, or are introduced to me, they, you

know, they have this idea of like, here's, here's what I want

to be, or, you know, here's, here's my goal. And the analogy

I always use is, you know, if you're building a house, I

understand that you want your third floor to be a master suite

and have all these amazing features. But before you get to

the master suite with the, you know, spa bathroom and

everything, you've got to have a great foundation to the house,

and the first floor has got to be solid, and then you want a

good second floor, and then you get your kind of, you know,

fabulous, you know, master suite and brands are that way too. You

need a very solid foundation from the get go, finding the

right value proposition, the right words, the right pictures

to tell your story. Who is your audience? What motivates them?

You know, what makes them tick, what's going to be compelling to

make them ask questions, to buy, to click, to convert, and if you

haven't done your homework, if you haven't done your research,

you're not going to know where to start. And you're not going

to know where to kind of plant your, you know, put your stake

in the ground so that you can start with your core your core

values, your core messages, and kind of build concentric circles

around that. And kind of, you know, grow your audience. But

you gotta start kind of with one or two things that you stand

for, that you own that that real estate in your customer's brain

belongs to you, so that every time they have a problem, that

your product or service can help them solve, that they think of

you first. You

know, it's really funny when you were saying that,

when you were saying you need to have that strong foundation

first. I wasn't even thinking just marketing, I was thinking

that within your company, yes, you have to have your strong

values and your and and be true to your core, because that's

what has to it comes across if you are or you aren't right. But

I was also thinking you have to have exceptional customer

service. You have to have people that really care and believe in

your brand, that work for you, if you know, if you're not a

solo on entrepreneur, and those things are just as important,

because they are representing you,

Paige Arnof-Fenn: right? They're an extension of your brand. And

if it's not consistent, or if you do have different values or

different messages, it can be very confusing, and it you know,

people buy brands they know like and trust, and the way to do

that is to again, zero in on those core messages that really

resonate, where you can emotionally connect with your

audience and be consistent in everything that you do, because

the consistency and the repetition is what gets people

to remember you and think of you. And if you're spread too

thin, or you're you're, you know, on one platform, you're

kind of this personality, and you have a different persona

here, and you know, they're not going to know which version of

you is going to show up. And that's not a way to build a

relationship, because you want to know that the person cleans

up well, and that every time they show up, you can count on

them, right?

You know, I was just thinking when you said

that, though too, that when I go shopping, whether it's food

shopping or clothes shopping or whatever, I am a brand name

girl, and I tend to always want to buy the brand that I'm used

to and or that I feel comfortable with, or that I've

had success with all the way along. And I have a hard time

with new different. And also I have a hard time this is off

topic in a way, but the. But I have a hard time with going to

the local grocery store, for example, which happens all the

time now. And this where I live, the grocery store, there are

options. There are definitely options, from Safeway to the

local big conglomerate here where I live, it's over weighty

foods, is what it's called, and they have different brands, a

low cost brand and normal band and a higher end brand, and but

when you go into the let's say, the middle of the road store,

the shelves are now completely their label and the brand names

aren't there. They're squeezing them out of their shelves, and

it drives me crazy that I don't have a choice. So because I want

to go back to the, you know, the I mean, they certainly still

have like Heinz ketchup and all the Procter and Gamble brands,

but they definitely have their front and center, their brand,

and I just feel like they're making it. They make me angry,

because I don't have the choice. What do you say to that? Because

that's one way the world's going.

Paige Arnof-Fenn: Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, I think that's

kind of the times we live in right now. You've got the

branded products, and people are willing to pay a premium for a

brand, for a PNG brand, because, you know, every category they

compete in they're probably number one and sometimes number

one and number two in the same category. So you're willing to

pay for the Tide detergent or the Crest toothpaste or the

Pantheon shampoo Oil of Olay, because, you know, like you

said, a brand is a promise of a certain experience. And you

know, if you buy the products that that you like, these

branded products, you know they're going to deliver for

you. And the risk is, if you buy something that might be cheaper

or that might look like it in the packaging, like a knockoff,

but there's something different about it. Either the scent is

different, or it just doesn't clean or do as well as it as the

other brand, you know, it's it falls apart in some way. But I

think in these inflationary times, where you hear a lot

about shrinkflation, you know, a lot of companies are downsizing

their products and charging you the same but giving you less,

and they think we're stupid that we don't

you're

Paige Arnof-Fenn: not fooling anybody. Like you notice you go

down the aisle and you're like, Wait, where are the things I

want? Where? And you know, you may have to do a little more

work looking online and buying them through Amazon, because you

can probably still get them, even if they don't have the

shelf space. But I think from the retailer's standpoint, the

reason why they're doing that, they're private labeling a lot

of those categories, because they're going to make more money

doing it right. So it's an economic decision, and I guess

in this day and age where so many people order so much

online, they're just trying to, kind of, you know, get their

tentacles in so that, if you know, if they can convert people

that are looking for brands they don't carry anymore, maybe

they'll get some spillover and make a little more money,

right? I know. I'm sorry I had to sidetrack

there, because I decided so networking is a huge part of

success in business, and we know that because we we care about

relationships. So what are some effective strategies for

building authentic relationships, both online and

in person, that you recommend to your clients?

Paige Arnof-Fenn: So, you know, I'm kind of old school. You

know, for me, that that's saying your network is your net worth

is 100% true for me. You know, when I started my company, when

I hung out my shingle, my very first clients came from my

network. You know, I, you know, went to great colleges, got a

great education, but at the end of the day, it's the people that

I met at those great institutions that have not just

been lifelong friends, but they've, you know, recommended

me for jobs. They've referred business to me. I don't think a

week goes by in my life where I don't, you know, check in on

people from the network I'm a very gregarious, extroverted

person, so networking. And I grew up in the Deep South, and

I, you know, in New Orleans, of all cities, which is a very

social city, and someone wrote an article on me, and I told

them, you know, all the fancy degrees and pedigree are great,

but I swear, growing up in New Orleans, where it's a very

social city, and you're always talking to people, and multi

generational you know people invite you, your parents

friends, and you know your grandparents friends. You know

people are always interacting. And I think that experience

growing up in the Deep South, where people. Telling stories

and sitting on the porch and drinking tea or going out for a

beer. That probably prepared me better for business than all the

fancy degrees, to be totally honest. But I think, you know,

not everybody is extroverted, and I get that some people get a

lot more nervous. I mean, I would say, Don't stress yourself

out with this concept of, oh my God. You know, I don't like

networking. It feels fake. Or I, you know, it makes me nervous to

walk into a hotel ballroom with a lot of people, and I have to,

like, shake hands and give out business cards. I try to get

people to kind of reframe the concept of networking and think

of it more like you just want to have a few interesting

conversations. You're not there to collect business cards.

You're there to kind of meet people, and you might make some

new friends, or find out about some new groups or some new

hobbies or something, and you probably have more in common

with people than you realize. So don't think of it as you know,

this kind of overwhelming, you know, mountain that you have to

climb. If you have friends that are in the same kind of work

field issue or has have the same interest, you can have a

networking buddy, go with you to an event, and sometimes that

takes the pressure off. I always say, if you're nervous walking

up to people you know, go stand in line at the bar or go over

where the food the food is on the table. And that's a really

natural way to talk to people you know. So what brought you

here? How do you know this group or, you know, oh, I just tried

that. I thought that our derv was so good. What else do you

like? Where do you live? You know, you can make small talk in

a way that makes it feel more natural and not so

uncomfortable. But I really, I feel like it's more like making

friends, and that you're talking what, you know, ask open ended

questions. So what do you like to do? You know? What do you do

for fun? What's your favorite movie? Or, you know, and people

love talking about themselves. And the funny thing is, in a lot

of ways, when you are, quote, networking, if you ask good,

open ended questions, people end up doing 90% of the talk and and

then, then you ask for their business card. You say, This has

been so great. I don't want to monopolize your time, but I'd

love to follow up. Here's my card. You swap cards, and that

person walks away feeling like you are so interesting, and the

truth is, they did 90% of the talking. I know, I know it's

beautiful. It is, and so people don't realize it's really not

hard to do. And what when you do get someone's business card, or

if they do follow up with you after that's like gold, because

you know they've opened the door, you are now invited into

their inbox. You can follow up. And I always say the follow up

and follow through is so important totally. If you meet

someone at an event, or you're sitting next to someone and at

an airplane, or however you end up meeting somebody you know,

just dropping an email or sending a LinkedIn request and

saying, I had such a great conversation with you, I'd love

to stay in touch. It doesn't take a lot. You don't need to

write an honors thesis, and when you ask those open ended

questions, people spill out so much information. They just

moved to a new town, or they are looking for a new card, you

know, and they were talking about electric vehicles or

sports cars or whatever. If you see an article or you listen to

a podcast that's related to something you talked about, and

you just send them a link, or you send them a white paper or

whatever, and say it was so nice chatting with you at that event.

We talked about XYZ, and I saw this article, and it made me

think of you. I hope this is helpful. That's all you have to

do, and it's not cheesy, and it's not inauthentic. It shows

that you are listening, that you are processing, and people

genuinely appreciate that. So I think you can be your own worst

enemy, people that think they're terrible at networking. I almost

always disagree. I think that if they looked at it from a

different perspective, I think they'd feel better about it and

realize it can be a lot more fun, it doesn't need to be

stressful. Those

are all great tips, and a lot of them I talk

to clients about too and and in the last few years, what I'm

finding is that with with my LinkedIn training, that I. When

I'm showing my clients, once we've got their profile up to

snuff and even doing their profile, I try to get them to

put a few things in there that become actual rapport building

or conversation starters, that people if they're actually

listening and actually reading the profile they can pull out

and start a conversation with. And a lot of people don't do

that, but it sure shows if you've paid attention by looking

at their profile, if you bring those points up and sometimes,

yeah, it's the

Paige Arnof-Fenn: same on a resume, you know, putting it

things that you enjoy doing, you know, I love jazz music, or I

practice tai chi or whatever. That's always a great place to

start. In an interview, you know, someone says, you know, I

see that you enjoy blah, tell me more. Or I do

too. And even you know, to the extent of you know,

you were on a sports team all the way through school and

university and maybe even beyond, shows that you work well

with the team, shows that you, you know, have stick to

itiveness and that kind of thing. I once had my daughter,

one of my daughters, took piano all the way through school, to

the point that she was actually teaching younger kids when she

was in grade 12, which was really cool 12th grade, and

which is really cool. And she's a beautiful pianist, but one of

her, the other students that her teacher taught, young man came

to her, came to the teacher one day and said, You know, I'm

applying. He was now finishing university, and he said, I'm

applying for jobs. He said, Do you think I should put on here

that I took classical piano for like, 12 years and blah, blah.

She said, Absolutely, absolutely. Because, again, it's

that stick to, and that got him a job as a CA student back in

the day, because it showed what you know, his his, as I said,

stick to itiveness. Because commitment, yeah, commitment,

right, and all of that. And so these things don't go by the

wayside if you be proud of them, whatever it is that and you have

them there in the right places, then it pays. You can pay

attention to that. Oh,

Paige Arnof-Fenn: when I was a hiring manager once, you know, I

got hundreds of resumes every time I posted a job. And one

woman on her resume, she had studied in Italy, and she was a

big foodie, and had worked in a rest in a series of very good

restaurants that I had eaten at. And, you know, a lot of people

technically have they're very competent. They have all the

skills. But when something catches your eye, I thought, Oh,

I've got to interview this, right? And she ended up getting

the job because she was not just technically competent. We had so

many things like her interview. She was so nervous interviewing,

and we ended up talking about, I had studied in Italy. I, you

know, I'm a big foodie too, and I thought this is someone I want

on my team, because she's great and she's fun to hang out with.

Exactly You can teach the skills. It's the other

piece that the the unknown and the and the off screen stuff,

Paige Arnof-Fenn: the culture and chemistry matter so much

when you're in an intense job, you want to work with people you

enjoy spending time with, because you spend a lot of time

with your work colleagues. Exactly.

Okay, so let's, let's shift to today a little

bit, because I'm curious to hear your opinion on this. So AI and

automation tools are everywhere today in marketing, and you said

you were old school. So I'm curious to know, how can

business owners, in your opinion, leverage these tools

while still maintaining authenticity and personal

connections with their audience?

Paige Arnof-Fenn: So, yeah. I mean, it's amazing how quickly

AI has gone from, you know, being something in the movies

that seemed, you know, yeah, 50 years away, to like, it's

dominating the news. And seems like they're new AI tools every

week, I know. And this week, in particular, the Chinese came out

with one cheaper and faster. And our stock market, yeah, and our

stock market reacted not so well about that. Yeah, it affected a

lot of the technology stocks, because the US thought they had

cornered the market on AI. And it turns out a lot of people are

working on it too. So I'm a big fan of technology, and I am not

an AI expert by any means, but I am definitely playing around

with chatgpt and Claude and perplexity I've only. Logged on

to the the newest, the deep seek only once. I have not I'm afraid

to. I'm afraid to. But, you know, I feel like you have to

put your toe in the water. And you know, if you need to read

about it, you can go to webinars or podcasts. I think they're

great tools for brainstorming. I think there's a lot of things

you can do to kind of, you know, you know, leverage the

technology to generate ideas, to kind of jump start things, but

the big risk is, I don't want my clients or people to rely on it

as a crutch, because it does make a lot of mistakes, and I

feel like it kind of it turns into like a sea of sameness. And

to be a brand, you know, you have to know what your value

proposition is and what's unique, special and different

about you, and you need to reinforce those things in

everything that you do. And what you and I can do that the robots

can't, is we can put emotion into our into our web copy, into

our emails, into our promotional material, sharing your

experience, your your origin story, your back story, the ups

and downs, the twists and turns, showing your vulnerabilities,

where you made mistakes, your excitement, your enthusiasm,

that doesn't come through with with Artificial Intelligence,

it's very hard they use kind of generic examples that are out

there on the internet for anybody to see and use. And so I

really feel like in this day and age, it is so critical, you

know, as I said, if you're not a brand, you're a commodity. And

if you're a commodity, you're going to compete on price, and

that is a downward spiral, because you can't charge a

premium for a commodity, for a generic product or service. So

leverage the technology to jump start your thinking, you know,

generate a lot of ideas. You know, you can if you're stuck on

a certain, you know, benefit or feature of your product or

service, you can use it to kind of, you know, kind of give you

that kick start, to get you thinking, but really tap into

why people emotionally connect with With you, your product, or

service, and tap into that, because without those war

stories, those kind of warts and pimples and all the the things

that you know you can really relate to, show your humanity.

Don't be scared to show something worked or didn't work

and right? Show your energy show your excitement, because people

do not connect with facts and figures and data, they connect

with the stories and the human element, and so that's where you

can really shine and stand out and really connect with your

audience. So learn to love AI, but, but don't, don't get stuck

too much,

right? I think, I think, right now, I was having

this conversation earlier today, I think it's a great tool, but

it is a tool, and it's important that you understand

how to teach it who you are

and there are. I know that I've been playing around with this a

lot, and I've learned a lot over the last few months about how to

make chat work for me, but you have to push back and you have

to give it more information about you before it will speak

in your voice, right? And and limitations, yeah, and even then

you have to add those personal touches and stories. But it can

jump start, as you said a lot of things, and I think it's

fascinating. I really do, but I think, like I was saying also

today that I've been seeing some there's a lot of marketers on on

line that are saying, get my, you know, 500 chat prompts and,

you know, to get on their email list. And here's a really good

prompt, you know, put prompt in the in the chat to to get it

from me, and so on, and they're using it, but what they're Miss,

what the danger of what they're doing is that they are creating

those people that are going to use the system in the vanilla

stage, right? They're not going to make it. They're because

they're not being taught that they're just being given a

prompt. And so, yeah, it's fast. Naming, but I do find that it's,

it's you got to, you've got to be up on it today. You don't

want to be left behind, right?

Paige Arnof-Fenn: But you know it, if you're not careful, you

you end up on the lowest common denominator, and that's a very

dangerous place to be when you're trying to build a brand.

What I've said to my clients over and over is AI is great and

artificial intelligence, it is important to understand. But the

AI that really pushing my team on are authentic interactions.

That's the AI that's going to help you at the end of the day.

Because without that authenticity, without those

human connections with your primary, secondary and tertiary

audiences. You're not really going to go anywhere. It's

you're going to hit a dead end. People are going to lose

interest there. You're going to bore them. You turn into a sea

of sameness where you know you're not going to stand out.

People will not remember you.

All right, let's, let's jump off there. And just

before we end, let's talk about let me get into your head a

little bit and see what you're all about. So just basic stuff.

Do you read? Do you have hard cover books in your hand? Or do

you read online? Do you read on Audible? What do you do?

Paige Arnof-Fenn: So I love old fashioned books. Okay, I

thought, I don't read on a Kindle. I don't do books on

tape. I have always been a big reader, so I'm always reading

stuff. People close to me Give me books for the holidays or my

birthday. I am finishing up a book about JFK, and I love kind

of biographies and autobiographies. And the best

one you've read, what's the most interesting one, the one I'm

just about my the next book on my cue, which I am really

excited about, is the new Ina Garten book. Oh, I love her.

Everyone says, be ready when the luck comes. I think it's called,

yes, you're right, and I am really excited to read that.

Sorry. Go ahead. Did you

listen to her interview with um, Julia Louis

Dreyfus? Do you listen to that? Oh,

Paige Arnof-Fenn: yeah. I love her wiser than me. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I love I listened to every episode.

So did you listen to the one where she went to

Aina house and baked a cake with her?

Paige Arnof-Fenn: Not yet, but she it's, I was gonna listen to

it right before I started the book. Yeah?

Do. It's hysterical, but it's a lot of

fun. Yeah? So you'll have to tell me how it is because I

think she's amazing, yeah, no, I love that. And she's authentic,

right? She's so authentic, and she makes no bones about the

fact that she loves to cook with butter, right, even today, and

how important she and her relationship with her husband is

I love it. Yeah, that's cool. Okay, do you watch movies? I bet

you don't.

Paige Arnof-Fenn: I love movies. Okay, I was just thinking that

they're probably only two movies on the best movie list for the

Oscars that I'm gonna see. I have not seen any of the top

Okay, which ones I want to see the Bob Dylan movie? Yeah, and I

want to see conclave. Those two look really interesting to me.

Yes.

I just watched conclave on Pay Per View and

very well acted. I love the cast, yes. But the

cinematography, or the, I guess it's the cinematography is

really interesting though, the the the angles, and the and the

wide angle views of of where they are, because they're in

this, like, big monastery kind of place, and it's like, not

that interesting. But that struck me, yeah, and the movie

is a little slow at the beginning, but it builds and the

interest grows. But there's one thing, and I won't spoil the

plot or anything, if I tell you this, that Ingrid Bergman, it's

her daughter. Isabella Rosaline, has this tiny little part, which

for which she was nominated as supporting actor. She's hardly

in it. I didn't quite understand that. That's my take

Paige Arnof-Fenn: on that. I love her, but I'm very excited

to see both

of those. She was interviewed by Louis Julie Julia

as well, which is really good in this season's episodes. And

okay, so I know this is going to air probably around the time of

the Oscars. So it'll be, you know, some people don't even

care, but I love talking movies with people. So there's one more

thing I want to say. I haven't seen the Bob Dylan movie yet.

And interestingly enough, at first I was like, I really,

really, really want to see it. And then I've changed my mind. I

will see it, but I. Don't think it's as big a movie, other than

his performance. Okay? And to be honest, I was never a huge Bob

Dylan fan, so I didn't know

Paige Arnof-Fenn: I'm a big Dylan fan. There you go. You're

my sister, yeah,

so you've got to see it, but I will see it for

his performance. And thirdly, there's a movie I said I wasn't

going to see, but I did see on my own at home on Netflix, which

is Amelia Perez.

Paige Arnof-Fenn: Oh, I've heard great things about it. So

interesting. I've heard that I think

it because it's going to win everything, but I

don't know why, because it's so different. Well, I guess because

it's so

Paige Arnof-Fenn: different, but wasn't parasite so different,

and it won everything. Like,

yes, but so was okay, the other one. What is it?

Everything about every Well,

Paige Arnof-Fenn: everyone, every time, yeah, I couldn't

watch that all the time. I didn't watch it either. No,

and it won stuff too. But parasite was good. I

enjoyed that. This one is really interesting, so I'll just leave

that with you until after and see if you see. Oh, I love this.

Thank you for the tip. Oh, yeah. So fun. So two last questions.

One, I like to ask people what they feel about curiosity. Is it

innate, or is it learned? In your opinion? And there's no

right or wrong answer. And secondly, what are you most

curious about these days?

Paige Arnof-Fenn: So for me, I think it's in my DNA. I think I

feel like I have an insatiable curiosity, and when I look at my

parents and grandparents and great grandparents. I think it's

just in me, okay, awesome. But I think for some people, maybe

it's a learned habit or response or not, or not, exactly, yeah,

um, so for me, curiosity. I love the word. It makes me happy. It

makes me smile. I mean, it brings up so many kind of

interesting thoughts, because it just leads to good things. It's,

it's, for me, when I think of it, it leads you to fun and

adventure and opening your mind. And, you know, I guess how I as

most entrepreneurs, probably feel like they have a growth

mindset. You're always learning and experimenting, and that's

all driven by curiosity, and like I said, asking people open

ended questions I am Gen genuinely curious about like,

what they do, how they do it, where they came from. So for me,

being curious, and you know, having genuine curiosity, like

nothing bad will come of that, like it will only lead to good

things in your life.

And do you have one thing right now that you're

very curious about? Well, you said you carried about

Paige Arnof-Fenn: everything, absolutely everything. I mean,

I'm a big sports fan. I'm I live in Boston. My husband and I are

season ticket holders for the Celtics. I'm curious why they're

so hot and cold this season, like they won the championship

last year. They should be more motivated and qualified this

year than ever.

And they Yes, and they're doing the Toronto

Raptors beat them last time they played. No,

Paige Arnof-Fenn: it's they've lost some really winnable games.

So, you know, I'm curious about that. I'm curious about the

climate and all the crazy things that have already happened this

year. You know, I grew up in New Orleans. New Orleans has had

more snow than we've had here in Boston. I mean, you know, I have

cousins in Houston, Texas and Pensacola, Florida. They've had

more snow than we've had here in Boston. That should not happen.

No, it's very strange, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm curious about,

you know, so much that's going on in Washington, and most of

that drives me crazy. And I think I try and not get too

curious there, because I don't want to drive myself nuts

Exactly, yeah, you have to, yeah, I'm curious about a ton of

things. I hope I never get Alzheimer's, because I feel like

my synapses are always firing. I

hear you. This is wonderful. So lastly, where can

my audience find you?

Paige Arnof-Fenn: Well, thank you. My Website, mavens and

mobiles.com, and LinkedIn, that you are way better at than me,

but you can find me on LinkedIn page, on often, and you know, if

all else fails, because my company has an ampersand. My

last name has a hyphen. One of my clients always says she

Googles page and mavens because that's all she can remember, and

then I pop right up because of search engine authorization.

With a name like mine, you really do find me if you Google

me,

that's. Wonderful. Thank you so much.

This was delightful, and I appreciate the time you spent

with us and your wisdom. And to my audience, thank you so much

again for being here, and remember to stay connected and

be remembered.

Paige Arnof-Fenn: Thank you. Janice, this was great. You're

welcome.