Flipping the Funnel: Unprecedented Growth Strategies with Jason Friedman | RR255

Hi, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode

of relationships rule. I'm very excited to welcome my guest this

week, Jason Friedman. Jason is a former theater nerd, which I

love because I'm all about the theater. So that's something on

a sideline I want to talk about. So Jason was a former theater

nerd who's now a serial entrepreneur and coach dedicated

to helping entrepreneurs and small business owners grow and

scale their businesses. With a flair for the dramatic and a

Master of storytelling. Jason has founded and exited five

successful companies. Now as CEO of CX formula. He's teaching and

coaching businesses how to scale their businesses by flipping the

funnel, using the power of their customers using his proprietary

kinetic customer formula. He's also at the helm of spotlight

brand services, guiding ecommerce brands to success on

Amazon and beyond, and has earned many accolades like Ernst

and Young's Entrepreneur of the Year, and propelled multiple

companies to the top of the of Inc 5000. List. You've got a

long resume of wonderful things that you've done, Jason. And I

know at the heart, it's all about people. Right?

You know it, you know, thanks for having me on

the show, Janice.

My pleasure, welcome. Thanks for being here.

And what I love is actually that it was a, you were introduced to

me through someone who was booking you on podcasts. And

when that happens, I get these pitches all the time from

people. And I read them. Sometimes I'm sure I'm not sure.

And sometimes I'm like, Look, I've got nothing to lose to meet

the person. So I will do an intro call with them before I

ever book anybody onto my podcast. And you and I had a an

intro column. We could never we never stopped talking. It was

like, amazing. Right? So I knew that you were a people person,

because that's what I am. And I can't help it right. But I

listened and I listened to a podcast episode that you had

done with the person that introduced us, Jeremy and it

seems so far removed from what I thought until I talked to you

okay, so he was digging back into your past about your, your

days as a I would say rock and roll groupie. I'm not sure if

that's the right term to use. rodi rodi That's right, a

roadie. So that was a long time ago, right? Yep. Yeah. So you so

you're a music person then obviously?

Yes. Um, music theater arts business, like the

whole nine yards. My I started in theater, right like, like the

very first exposure I had to it was when I was like eight, nine

years old. And my best friend at the time at summer camp wanted

to go audition for the camp play. He was nervous to go on

his own. So he's like, Hey, come with me. I'm gonna lend some

moral support. And I was the back of the Playhouse. He went

on stage to sing like Happy birthday or whatever to

audition. And there was this guy in the back. His name was Mark,

who looked just like Wolfman Jack, if you know that American

DJ, do you look to just like him. And he was like, doing some

lighting while they were on stage. And like messing with the

microphones and building like a set like a flat. Yeah. And it

was like just so taken by what he was doing. I just started

talking to him. And Billy got into the show, and I got onto

the stage crew. I loved it. Every single year, I just kept

doing more and more theater and I went to school for theater

lighting design specifically, but I and then I got into like

touring with those rock and roll groups and the whole journey.

Like I was also a trumpet player as a musician, so I didn't use

it in theater, like my whole life. And you learn so many

interesting things. Like it's that it's that kind of Karate

Kid Mr. Miyagi, wax on wax off experience, like, You're doing

all these things, and you're learning all these things, you

don't know exactly how they're gonna fit together at some

point. And for me, you know, just like you it's like, I

learned that engaging with people is, it's a skill, it's an

important skill, and some of us have a superpower, others of us

have to work a little harder at it. For me, I had to work a

little harder at it, you kind of it comes naturally seems to come

naturally to you. But I just watched people would come in

from their crazy busy day, or to a rock roll, they would rock and

roll concert, they'd get their hours earlier to get in the

mood, because they were so excited about the experience

they were about to have, they wanted to have last longer magic

clients loved you and your business so much that they

wanted everything to bat last longer. And so they would come

and they'd like tailgate and they'd like listen to all the

songs they're about to listen to again just to get excited. And

and then they come in and they have this amazing experience.

They forget about all the problems in the world. They have

a Novation at the end, and then they want to hang out even

longer after the show's over, and they can't help but to tell

everyone they know that they were at the concert They had

this amazing experience. Like, I grew up doing that I had like

that. And then I did more legit theater. It's the same thing.

How as businesses can we capture that time, that mindshare that

that focus, the attention, the time, the investment from all of

our customers? It's with storytelling. It's by creating

these amazing experiences. And I know you do it as well, in your

business. We've talked about that. So yeah, it's just it's so

much fun. So that's, that's my theater story.

Well, we and I love it because because I guess

when I was younger, I would go to concerts, but I now I'm like,

don't get me near all those people. I you know, it's too

much too much already. But, and you can tell when you're getting

too old for it. When you go to a concert, you come out with a

migraine headache, which happened to me the last time we

saw Elton John, because we we knew the very good friend of

mine owned the ticket company, and we got really good seats

really close. But they were right near out. Oh, my God, it

was too much. But anyway, that shows how old I am. But, but

let's go to so I'm looking at your website, CX formula, that's

your baby, your company. And what I'm seeing is a statement

that says give your customers an unmatched experience and watch

as you organically build a loyal tribe of customers who are

raving, returning, renewing and recruiting for you. I love that.

So are you tell me what that how you work with a client? Because

I mean, obviously, we all want referrals. We all want people to

talk about their experience with us. And so how do you bring that

out in people? How do you? Well, no, here's the question, the

question, the question is, do the people that get it come to

you to to? Have you helped them build that? Or do they come to

you and you teach them that this is what they need to do? Yeah,

really? Good question. So people come to us,

in our in our past life right before CX formula life before

CX. We've been doing the same thing for 20 plus years, 2526

years, we sold the company that we built to nine figures in

sales. And that's what we did. But we did it as a done for you,

people would hire us to do it for them. Okay. And I had a non

compete for five years, I call it my prison sentence where I

couldn't do what I love doing for five years. And when we

started CX formula, at the end of 2016, beginning of 2017, we

started doing it mostly with small entrepreneurial companies,

right. So we used to do it for big Fortune one, hundreds

universities, top tier businesses and smaller business,

but primarily the big ones. And it was for you, we want to help

more people, right. I love entrepreneurs, I love

entrepreneurship. I'm a serial entrepreneur. And so for me,

like I'm in the impact phase in my life, I want to help more

people, because that's what lights me up when I help people

have more success in their business, and they're able to

create more jobs and, and all that freedom. I love that. So

our model now is more of we teach you how to do it, or we

kind of do it with you through some deep dive workshops. So

that's, that's the way we do it now. But people come to us for

different reasons, some, like already understand it, and they

want what we're doing. And that's awesome, right, we can

move quickly to executing on it with them. Others come to us

with a problem, right? They they're spending so much money

on ads and whatever but they're not getting, they're not really

scaling. They're they're they're they're they've kind of

plateaued, they have a ceiling that they can't break through.

Some of them have chronic refunding problems where people

buy their program, and then they or their products or services or

whatever. And then they hate it. They don't like it. They asked

for a refund within a window of refund period. Some of them

defect, like they just stopped paying on like a payment plan

and just disappear. And then a dead beat out on the on the

business. Right? Y'all know why? Yeah, some of them leave. They

have massive negative social proof issues with people and a

hating on them on social. So there's all sorts of reasons

that people kind of come to us. The problem that we see is that

they're generally speaking, solving the wrong problem in

their business, right? They're like they're trying to solve,

like, why am I ads not converting? Or why are people

getting to a certain point they're not staying? What

they're not focusing on is like, what exactly does success look

like for our customers? How do we have our customers have that

success? repeatedly? What system? What processes do we

have in place that virtually guarantee that if someone steps

inside and it's the right fit client, that they're going to be

happy, not not satisfied, or happy where they tell other

people about it? That's what we help them do. And so when we

talk about the ideal result, it's about customers who rave

about their experience. They returned to buy more products,

they renew their subscriptions and memberships. And they

recruit they definitely go out there and grab people and bring

them like a Salesforce to your business because they love what

just happened for them and they want more people to have have

that success? Yeah. And what I see more often than not the

problem is like, what is the success metric? To me success is

that are for right the rate of return renew and recruit, not,

you know, I was talking to someone about this, they said,

well, so if I had a weight loss company is and they lost 20

pounds, that's the success, I guarantee that they're gonna

lose 20 pounds. And I said, That's awesome. But that's not

what success is success is I feel more confident in my body.

Like, when friends call me to go out to dinner, I'm like, excited

about picking something out of my wardrobe, because it fits me

now. And I want to go out, in fact, I'm now calling my friends

to go out. Versus when I started, I'm sitting alone with

a shovel full of ice cream going in my mouth, watching television

on the couch. And when someone calls me to go out, I'm like,

I'm sorry, I can't tonight. And then I feel bad, because I'm not

going because I don't feel good about the way I look. And I

don't have clothes that I can wear. Right? So the result is

not the 20 pounds, the 20 pounds is what your system does. And

it's awesome. It's the tool or the mechanism that you're using

through your process to get that feel. Right? feeling at the end,

right? And so we teach people how to uncover that how to

deeply understand their customers, we use theater

tricks, if you will, right. So like, for example, like we all

talk about avatar, who's our ideal client avatar, right? Or

how are our ideal fine avatars, but we tell them how to get into

characters, if you were going to be an actor, playing your

customer on stage, the depth of knowledge that you have to have

about them. It's beyond what any of us think about in a normal

business. And what I want you to think about is earlier on in

their career before the that customer before they even got to

you what happened in their life that got them to even be

searching for a solution to this problem, got them that problem,

got them to be aware of your product or solution. So we do

all this deep work to understand that. And that's the story like

what we do, we believe, again, theater. The reason that, like

if you came to a theatrical performance, or a rock show, or

anything that we did, it was you, every audience had the same

reaction, they laughed at the same moment, they gotta give you

standing ovation at the same moment. That was not accidental.

That was tension all the way. It started with an idea. And a

story that became a script that then got brought to life with

characters in the interaction and sets, lights, costumes,

props, you know, things music, sound effects, whatever. And,

and through that journey, like we rehearsed it over and over

again, when there's something that's really important. You

choreograph it, you script it out. And so I want people to

start out by scripting, what is the ideal customer testimonial?

What is the ideal things that they would say? Not just, oh,

it's amazing. I got I lost 20 pounds, and I feel better. Now.

Tell me the story. Tell me your your story. So when you found

me, what was happening, what was going through your head? What

what happened? What did what did I say? What did I show you? What

did they teach? What did I do that got you to have that moment

of like Wonder inspiration or momentum that you said, Well, I

want to try this. And then really chronicle that story with

juicy words and adjectives as your client, like if you were

looking through their glasses, and when you do that, we call

that an ideal customer script that gives you the, the whole

journey mapped out now you can reverse engineer all the things

you need to do on your customers path, to make sure that as

they're going through it, they're having those moments,

they're having those insights, they're having those epiphanies,

they're having those breakthroughs. And you're

actually reminding them all through that what those memories

are. So when they go to share it at the end, it is scripted. And

it's not an accident. And it's not manipulation, because we're

genuinely helping them have that experience in a perfect way. And

so that's where we start, we start at the end, we script what

we wanted to believe me by flipping the funnel, and we

flipped the funnel. If when we focus on having you have an

amazing experience as a customer, those are the stories

that we share to get more customers in. They bring other

customers in right now. Everyone's all the Guru's

everybody out there is teaching how to get more clients how to

how to get more ads, how to do better ads, how to do better

marketing, how to do better launches, how to do better

stuff, but we're there and they have budgets and resources and

teams devoted to that they have very little budget for client

success, if any, they haven't even thought about it.

So it's okay on that theme. I totally agree with

you that we're always hearing about, you know, go out there

and find new people. And this is how we recommend that you do

that. But what about like I teach LinkedIn? What about the

5000 connections you have on LinkedIn already? What are you

doing with them? You know, the clients that are already your

raving fans are you looking after? Or maybe they're not what

they could be because you're not looking after them. And so I

focus more time and energy on the clients, the past clients,

the present clients that you already have Don't be always

looking to the future. Right?

Yeah. And we have to look to the future to

some extent, right, we still have to be feeding the beast.

But the best way to feed the beast is by having such a great

business, that's great those results, because this what

you're going to do in your marketing, like, like, if all

you did think about this for a second, like, so I tell people

all the time, like, if you wanted to have like an affiliate

program, why, let's say you're gonna, you're gonna compensate a

customer. So you say to a customer, this was amazing,

like, if you love the experience, will actually give

you a percentage of sales, like, you know, for all or, you know,

whatever. Okay, that's great. But so people do what you pay

them to do. So I'll give you X dollars, you do that. It's an

exchange of some sort. But here's the thing. People do what

you pay them to do. But people love doing what you reward and

recognize them for doing. So let's say that you're marketing,

instead of being I have a great program, I have like, for me, I

have a great program, I can help you scale your business better

than anybody else is doing it because XYZ blah, blah, blah.

Okay, great. What if I tell you the story of Janice. So Janice

has a program where she helps people, you know, optimize and

upgrade their LinkedIn presence that really helps them build

their social presence there and use that as a strategic

marketing and sales tool for their business. And so when

Janice came to me, and she genuinely wanted to help other

people, let me tell you about Janice's process a little bit

and what we did. And so what I'm doing is, I'm literally selling

your business as a case study of how I helped you. Now I'm

recognizing you as a badass as this amazing entrepreneur who

has an amazing company who's doing amazing things out there.

And I'm helping to bring more customers into my business.

That's a better formula. Because now at showing my, the amount of

interest how I'm interested in my clients results, versus being

interesting being that dancing bear me, me, me, me, me, right?

That's the magic of flipping the funnel right? Now I'm using

those stories. And in fact, if I helped you do that, and your

business really transformed, you would be like, How can I help

you? What can I do to help you? Right, and so it's a, it's a

virtuous cycle, or a vicious cycle, you get to choose if you

make them angry, and don't help them it's a vicious cycle, if

you help them and support them and, and sing their praises.

It's a virtuous cycle. And that's what you want, you want

that momentum to build. Of course, of course, the secret

is, it feels a whole lot better in your business, a whole lot

better, when all your clients are feeling great. Your team is

more excited about coming to work. When you're having these

kind of wins over and over repeatedly, it doesn't get

boring. What gets boring is the complaints and the customer

service problems and the issues and the defection and the

refunds. And my job instead of being like a customer advocate

becomes a customer refund transaction processor, like

right up for that. But that's the job right now. So it's the

magic that happens, all the byproducts is super amazing. You

will transform your culture, inside your company and outside

your company when you do this work.

So do you have a little story of somebody just

recently that you've turned their business around? And so

many so many? Like, I'll give you I'll give

you a very basic example. So we had a guy come to a workshop. I

think it was this past June, so a few months back, right? He

flew over here from Portugal. Oh, wow. You heard about our

program. I speak on stages all over the place. He heard me

speaking and whenever he got here to New Jersey, and he

just lately laid the land for me. So you do have

what an all day workshop or

three day immersion workshop, literally

teach you all the things you need to know. And we you map

your journey. Our coaches support you, you're in a room

with a few other businesses, you know, that are working on it

together and we share we Yeah, so it's a it's a very intimate

and awesome experience. And what's even more fun about it is

there's a meta experience that you're having while you're

learning how to do it for your customers. So we're delivering

everything that we teach we're doing. And then we have what we

call meta moments where we take you behind the scenes and show

you what we just did so that like you can be like, Wow, that

was cool onboarding that was awesome. Like, so like, we

practice what we preach in our program. Right? So anyway, so

his name was Ricardo Costa shout out to Ricardo an awesome,

awesome human being. And if you're ever in Portugal, he runs

this. This boat company called magnifico, Douro. It's on the

door River in like the North, I guess Northwest northeast of

Portugal. And it's where all the wine country is where they make

all the delicious port wines and things like that. He has a fleet

of boats and takes you on these tours of, of these different

things. And it's amazing. It's like people have like, the most

unbelievable vacations of their lives. And he bought this

business in years and years ago, when it was falling apart. And

he, like single handedly, like, renovated and transformed the

old rickety boats into these like amazing experiences. And he

knows the area like so intimately, he knows everybody

and the tours and the tour guides are like, incredibly well

trained. And so he's like, he's like, man, he's like, we're

having more competition, like people buy a boat. Now they're

on the river, and they're there, they're charging less. And

they're not doing as good a job. They don't get great reviews,

but they're still eating into business. And he came in and

like, as we started to map out his journey, like, I asked him,

like, Who exactly is the right customer for you like, because

he was so focused on getting as much of the customers as many of

the customers as he could, he wasn't focused on the right

customers initially, right? So we started like, we started

there, like, who are the right customers, what do they most

want. And he has two customers, he works with four companies

that you know, sub him out just as the boat piece of they're

bringing people over there. And he has end users like end

customers that just reach out to him. And so he was treating

everybody the same, and they're not, right. And then within the,

you know, direct customers, they're not all the same,

either. Some people are on chemo, and some people are

younger kids. It's all over the map. And so we need to get clear

on that. And as he started to go through the journey, he's like,

wow, he's like, there's so many things we do really well. But

there's a lot of things that we do that adds frustration, or

friction, as we call it. And so he started like, analyzing it,

because we walked him through this process. And by the end of

that, like it was probably one of the best testimonials I've

ever had. He gave me this amazing testimonial. But what he

said in the room, he's like, Jason, he's like, I've been

doing this for many, many years. He's a slightly older gentleman.

He's in his 60s, older than me. And then he said, he's like, you

know, he's like, I started this business, and I was in love with

it. He's like it along the way, I fell out of love with it, to a

point where I kind of don't even want to go in every day. He's

like, and that's not why I started. And that's when I'm on

the boat, where I'm with the people, I love it. But there's

so much resistance, getting on it, whatever. He's like, I am so

excited to go home and work on my business and be part of it.

Like I see it through a different lens than they saw in

the beginning. But I have even more ideas for my business than

I've ever had before. I cannot wait to get home, get my team

involved and make this happen. And he's been like slowly but

surely employed in imploring employing some of these things

and doing these things. And I get a text from him on WhatsApp.

And he's like, he's like, This is amazing. And so I had the

good fortune in November, I was in Portugal after he was in the

workup, yanked out on a boat tour. And he did so many hits

me, I didn't do enough. I didn't do that. And he did. And he's

seen the results like people are leaving more reviews online that

are five star reviews, positive reviews, his tour operators are

giving him more options to do more things. Just all his team

is more excited about what they're doing. And so that's why

we do this, right. It's just Yeah, it's I hate to say it's

like textbook, but it is and some of it is just basic

fundamentals. Right?

That you care, right showing that you care,

but you have to systematize it and you can't

assume that when you bring on an employee, like I had one

customer, he was an electronics retailer in, in the northeast,

kind of like a Best Buy, if you will, right. And they had a they

had a brand. And he used to say to them on the North were the

Nordstrom of consumer electronics were the Nordstrom

right, which he was we were the gold standard where the best

customer service focused organization. So he brought us

in because they were having some problems. And he brought me into

a manager's meeting. And they had I think they had eight

stores or nine stores at the time with about 40 managers in

the System System Managers in their conference room. And I

walked in and was kind of sitting off to the side. At some

point he introduced me as like, the Savior, right? Like, like

the guy that's gonna save our business and whatever. And this

was when we were doing things for people right back in the old

old days. And he's like, you know, he's like, we're the

Nordstrom of consumer electronics like bla bla bla bla

bla, big rallying cry, and he introduces me I get up in the

front room. I said, you know, I'm really glad to be here. I

said, I have a question. Just quick show of hands. How many

people in this room have ever been in a Nordstrom? Not one

hand other than the CEO went up. Interesting, right. And so So I

said to them, I said who knows what he means his name was Leon

means when he says we're the normal consumer electronics,

blank stares in the room. It had no meaning it had no text. And

so like in our businesses, we assume like we have these big

ideas, we assume we hire people that they understand what we

believe is a level of good customer service. What is a good

customer experience what a result should be? And we're not

training them on that, right? We train them on the skills like

how to use the CRM, how to use the phone system, how to email

somebody, we don't train them, how to be good stewards for a

client success, how to be a good relationship person. And it's an

art form that is lost.

Yeah. Yeah. You know what I woke up in the

middle of the night last night with a meme in my head that I

was creating for. I posted it this morning on LinkedIn. And

all it said, I had to try and remember what I remembered what

I'd said. All it was was be curious. See, now forgotten, be

curious. begin conversations. And what was the third be? And

be getting begin conversations and hang on. Now I'm really mad

because I can't remember it. Here it is. Got it. Be curious,

begin conversations, build relationships. That's it. And

that's kind of how I operate and the rest will come. You know,

the rest will come but you have to care. You have to show an

interest in people. You have to start those conversations. You

have to engage with people, and you have to build trust and in

those relationships, right. So I see that you reminded me also of

my Nordstrom story, actually, because of course, I'm on the

Pacific West Coast. mothership and Nordstrom, by the way, was

in Vancouver for two years, we had their flagship store in

Canada, and then all of a sudden they close it down. We don't

have it anymore. We were so excited when we had Nordstrom,

but I was in California staying at my daughter and my sisters.

And I went out to Nordstrom in wet Westland Woodland Hills Mall

or something in the San Fernando Valley. It was a Sunday, I went

Sunday morning, I had seen this jacket and I really wanted it.

So I bought it. But I was leaving that night to come home.

So I brought the jacket home. And now Now I'm packing in the

afternoon. And the jacket has one of those tags on it. The

electronic tags, which they've forgotten to take off. I got out

of the store. But would I get through security at the airport?

I don't know. So I phoned the store. And they sent the sales

clerk over to my sister's house with the thing to take it off.

That's a Nordstrom. That's that's what they needed to know

right about

Nordstrom. Yeah, they know what it looks like to

deliver that service. And what business would take the time to

do that? Nobody, nobody cares. But you're telling the story to

1000s of people right now? Later because it left them it left an

imprint, right? Yeah, that was just the opportunity to leave

those imprints with every customer we have every day of

our lives. Right. So So if we think about competition, like

you, there's no competition when you behave that way. When that

is the experience you create. Competition disappears.

Right? Yeah, it's there's enough out there for all

of us is a better mentality, the abundance mentality. But it's

true that, you know, people don't all think that says I'm

all

for abundance. But at the end of the day, if

we're not thinking about how we deliver greatness, you're gonna

start feeling scarce. Right? Yeah, it's fulfilling prophecy.

You know, one of our tag lines that we use is, you know,

experience dot dot dot your unfair advantage. And I believe

that to be true, right, it is your unfair advantage when you

focus on that. And you know, we say experience a lot. I just

want to define it for a second experience when I'm talking

about it, like the experience for your customers. It's how

they feel, yes, your brand, it's a feeling right. And, and it's

not the something you do, like you actually don't create an

experience. What happens experience is the effect, right

experience is a sum of all the things you do. So while

technically you are creating the experience, what you're doing is

you're creating results success, you're removing frictions,

you're creating a positive journey for people so that they

genuinely feel great throughout the experience. That is what

that experience is, that's what creates like that unique

fingerprint that differentiates you from all your competition,

right? I just see so many people that commoditize their business.

So in so many ways in every way like you know the the pricing,

they lower pricing, they discount they try and do what

everybody else is doing. Instead of standing out it's like, you

know, it's like there's no benefit and being like The

cheapest second cheapest guy out there, right? So if you can't be

the cheapest, there's gonna be the most expensive and deliver

on something that that makes the value right

and be able to articulate that in such a way

that you're believe it and it's true 100% I see the passion in

your in you in what you do. And I love that so much. Before we

we wrap up, though, I want to just sort of sideways a little

bit and just ask you with button questions. So having been in

theater and you love the music scene, so I'm sure when you're

on the East Coast, I'm sure you've been to shows on

Broadway. Do you prefer plays? Do you prefer? musicals? What's

your favorite show that you have experience? Like,

oh, gosh, you know, I love theater. I love

shows. I you know, I like it depends, right? You know, like,

there's been a bunch of musicals I've been to that we're not

quite up to snuff. They've kind of feel forced in the story

feels a little bit, you know, inauthentic. I've been plays,

you know, I, I like, I like good theater. I'll leave it at that.

Like the format. Like sometimes it's like improv is awesome.

Like, you know, in the round is awesome. musicals are awesome.

Like, I love theater. Like, you know, Blue Man Group. For

example, I love Blue Man Group is awesome. Music Theater, you

know, whatever.

Do you are you a movie buff? I watched

movies. I see movies. I'm not I don't run to

the theater when a new movie comes out. Usually. Yeah, my

kids, my kids, like a superhero movie comes out we go. But other

than that,

yeah. Okay. All right. Are you a reader or a

listener? Or as a person? Or a video?

I am a reader and a listener more than a video

person.

Do you still like to read a hold a book to read?

Or do you read it on screen?

i It depends. So I love reading when I travel.

But carrying the amount of books that I sometimes need with me

gets unruly. So I do kindle a bit. But I actually have like a

real Kindle where it's got like the paper so that I'm not like

looking at the blue on the fun like the computer tablet or

whatever you prefer. I love real books. I love marking them up. I

love dog earing pages, I love coming back to it. I believe

that, you know, authors put so much time into their book. And

we read them once or kind of once. And I so like, I love

coming back and reading books a second third time I take a new

thing away. Sometimes it's like I've changed between times I've

read it, it's not read it sometimes, like there's a

different thing going on in my life that I hear it a different

way. So and one of the gifts I give to people that are

important to me, is I books that I love that I've marked up and

dog eared, I have an assistant of mine go through and make

replicas of that exact book. So we boy buy multiple copies, and

we mark them up exactly as mine is. And I send them to people

that I know they would benefit from that book. And I maybe even

add a couple notes there a couple of spots that I think

would be helpful for whatever I know is going on in their

business. I send those out to them. And they love that it's so

thoughtful. And it's fun. It's fun to do. So I use books a lot.

That That one

I'm puzzled by because I'm like you like I like

to have my felt pen and my marker, you know, my highlighter

there mostly when I'm reading obviously business books or self

help books, those kinds of things. But if you sent me a

book that was already marked up, I'm not sure I'd like that.

Because that would

love to try it and say, Yeah, that's really

what's cool about it. So like, it's, it's like, it's not like,

like every page you turn is like, you know, blocking all

sorts of stuff. It's like these are really cool highlighted

important things. Like if you look in your Kindle, now, you

get that same experience, you see what other people are

highlighted and whatever. And it's interesting, like some of

those I agree with some of them I don't agree with and that's

fine, like I wouldn't, and hopefully what it's Sparks is a

conversation between us. That's stopping like, hey, like so I'll

get someone to be like, Hey, dude, like, why don't you like

Mark this? And I'll be like, let me ask you a question. Like,

we'll start this like conversation. He's like, holy

crap, I didn't. I didn't even think of it that way. And I'm

like, well, like,

well, and that would be the one thing that I

would see is that it would be an insight into you.

100% right. It's a way to build deeper

relationships. Yeah, exactly. And like if I can do that you so

I'll give you a great so I one of the books I recommend

everybody write is a book called predictably irrational by Dan

And I really I don't know if you've ever met it. Yeah, you

should definitely grab a copy. Or maybe, just maybe you might

get one, right. So so so if you're struggling with pricing,

for example, right, so he's a behavioral economist, he looks

at, you know, different, you know, patterns and things like

that. And he's got these great stories and explanations about

it. So the one of the one of the case studies, and there's about

the Economist magazine. And so they do this thing where he

shows like, they did this test where they had the digital

version was like 65 bucks, and the print version was like 125

bucks. And what do you think? What do you think sold more? The

digital or the print?

You think the digital,

right? So the digital did sell more? Right? So

they it was a significantly increased amount of people, I

don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, or I'd

share them. But then they did another test where they did

three options. And so in the second test, they did the

digital only for 65 bucks, the only for 125 bucks, and the

digital and the print for 125 bucks. Oh, so that wasn't a

mistake. The second two were the same. So you got that. So what

do you think happened at that point? Well, what do you think

sold the most?

I think the third option, exactly what happened.

Right. And so why did that happen? Because you

can contact the know the con? Yes, you think it's a deal. But

the comparison at that point is between the $225 options. They

already discounted. Right? Yeah, right. So like, let's say that

you are struggling with like those kinds of things in your

business, which I have a lot of people that come into my world

that are, this is a great thing to send them because it starts

to unlock something that like, and he's a masterful writer. And

it's, you know, just a great book. So, like, I would find,

like reasons why I won't send somebody's book, another great

book is made to stick by Chip and Dan Heath. I don't know if

you've ever read that. But like, people, yes. Like, it's a great

book, so many people that I know, like, they talked about

the curse of knowledge in that book. And so many people that I

know, are experts in their field, and they lose sight of

like when customers are coming into their world, they lose

sight of really where they are like, they may have been in

touch with them a long time ago, but they don't now and they're

talking way above their head and in different ways. And they're

not telling sticky stories and all that. So I might use that

book as a way to help you know someone and get them unstuck.

So, people, I've never had anyone say, Dude, why did you

send me this dirty marked up book? Yeah, having that

experience, you might be my first we'll say. But, like,

there's also a cover note that goes with it like, of why I

chose this book. And like that, you know, there's there's

I can see that your heart is is at the

forefront of it. And I love people notice

that right? So it's just an interesting thing.

So but again, for your business, like what is it that you think

will help people and touch people and show that you're

interested in their success? This is just one of my things

that I've kind of done and developed over the years, that

seems to work really well. And you sent me an amazing gift,

right? That was like super awesome. And it personalized and

like it was just it was amazing. So you know, you have your ways.

And so like, I just think for all of us, it's like, how do we

connect more deeply? And those are very personal one on one

kind of things. We might have businesses where we can't be as

directly one on one. That's okay. The question is, how do I

deliver that kind of feeling of one on one at scale? What would

it look like? And so the question I like to encourage

people to ask is not like, it's like, how could I? Like just ask

the question, how could I? And see what's there? See what you

uncover? I'm just percolate on it a little bit and see what see

what love

it. I think we need to wrap up because we have

gone over time, because I love listening to your stuff. Sorry,

sorry. Oh, don't be sorry. I love it. What you have to say it

speaks to me. And I hope to my audience in the sense that it's

all about the customer experience. It's all about

caring about people and showing them that you care. And so if

you're not doing that in your business or through your

business, then you need to take another look. And you need to

see what Jason has to offer. So Jason, how can people find you?

Yeah, so

you can definitely jump over the website

that you were talking about earlier, CX formula.com. But you

know, Janice, I'd love to do a little special something,

something for your people, if you're cool with that. So I have

a really cool PDF that I have put a bunch of time into that is

like a really awesome strategy and tactical kind of approach at

the same time. So I'm not going to tell you what it is. It's a

little secrets a little surprise, but it will take you

less than 10 minutes to go through. I did a

gift.cx formula.com/relationships rule. We'll put it in the show

notes. Just two favors from anybody that grabs it like,

please do like, I want you to have it. There's no, no strings

attached, you know, it's free. But the only thing I ask is that

you, if you download it, please look at it, don't let it sit on

our drive and not look at it. Because I think I do that, like

it's so many of us do it, we download it, we get busy, it's

something that will really help you. And I was really selective

about what you can't find this on my website, when you go to

see it from and you won't find this thing. I'm not sharing it

with everybody. I'm sharing it only with, you know, special

groups of people that I get to talk to. And it's a killer. Sure

I teach this. It's part of my course, that I'm giving you. So

again, just I think I think I know it'll help you. And I think

if you give it the 10 minutes, you'll be like, Wow, this is

cool. And then the second favor is like if you're moved by it

and you decide you're going to use it, send me an email about

what you did and how it worked. I'd love like literally want to

hear how it worked for you. So my email address will be on an

email that you get from or delivering it, just reply back

and let me know what you think.

That's very generous of you. Thank you,

Jason, I look forward to having a look at it myself. So thank

you for being here. Thank you for your wisdom. And thank you

to my audience again for being here. And please, if you like

what you heard, remember to leave a review. We all love

that. And it helps the algorithms help move my forecast

up and so of course that's that's something that I'm always

working on and appreciate. So remember to stay connected and

be remembered