Power in Community: The Origin of the Rad Dad Collective | 001

Welcome to Project Rad Dad. I have with me today Sean Aiken and David Stegman. Hey guys,

Howdy

Hello Hello

So these guys are the founders of the Rad Dad Collective, which came in advance of this podcasts. David and Sean, myself are in a support circle fathers we meet every other week. And that structure, the community they developed throughout that collective is this discussion for today, we want to talk about how did this arise? And why is it here? And what does it matter for us? So, welcome, guys. We're gonna start with a little just inquiry about before all this happened before there was a rad dad collective. I want to ask you, David, first, what was your life like, as a father before the collective was created?

Thanks, Matthew. For me, it was a chaotic experience. So if I can imagine like this, the most disorientating event of my life that I was so unprepared for, and just in a constant state of chaos, where it's getting up in the middle of the night dealing with my partner dealing with this baby. And just a general sense of overwhelm, which I had never, I never been challenged in this way before. And what I want to really hammer home is like the point that it got to was having conversations with my partner when my kick was to about separation. We're only together because we have this kid. And these very honest conversations of that, that real struggle of it's got to this point, if this is bad that I wouldn't be with you if we didn't have a kid. And that's really when I knew I needed some some serious help, some serious support, around fatherhood around this transition around kind of being a good dad. Because I was going to pretty much blow up everything I've worked my entire life for. And I'll even make it more personal of my grandfather, he committed suicide in front of my grandmother. Yeah. Wow. So he didn't pull the plug. Yeah. And he didn't cut my grandma, what he had done, so they were going to the hospital, and he wouldn't say. So I just knew I didn't, I wasn't gonna go down that road. You know, I didn't have suicidal thoughts or anything, but I could see that if I didn't get serious support around my relationship around fatherhood, around what this phase of my life really meant that essentially, my, my life would be very hard looking forward. And that was, you know, the seed and the catalyst for, okay, I need to surround myself with good men who are on a similar journey, who I can lean on who I can bounce ideas off who I can be challenged by. Because it didn't help. At the end of the day, it was like it was really for me to create a system or a structure or an organization that I could get the help that I need. And, and that was the seed it was reaching out to Sean and kind of not going to go into all the details. But that was the the lowest point of our relationship with my partner of having a child calling up all my mentors saying, I just need help. I don't even know what it is. I spent tons of money on getting help counselors, everything because what was the point of having money in the bank or a support network? If I wasn't using it at the very kind of lowest point to probably the lowest point in my life at that time? Yeah. So that was kind of where the seed was planted. Yeah.

Thank you for that. I didn't actually know that about your grandfather, David. I really appreciate you sharing that and I feel the sadness and the the warning from that. About you, Sean.

It's such a initiation into fatherhood. And you know, for myself, I remember just being thrown in the deep end of all of a sudden we have to care for this life. This human being and having a dog better in the world, and all of a sudden, was that what does that ask of me? She was born in 2017. And it was the year that I think that there was times person to the year was me to movement. And here I am bringing a daughter into the world. Knowing that, you know, I will be the first man that she loves, and receives love from in that way. And so what does that ask of me as a man in this world as a father to a daughter, and, you know, for the first time it really shifted this, you know, all about me perspective, all the learning, or workshops or trainings or things that I had done, it was just a concept that it wasn't about me that was for those to come. And then all of a sudden, they have this physical representation in flash of this is the one to come. Now, what are you going to do? And, you know, similarly to David, there was, you know, along with all the joys and overflowing love and abundance of like, wow, how precious This is. There's also the, oh my gosh, what are we doing? This is chaotic, we're not sleeping. And similarly, the presence of a child can, can really put a strain on all the weaknesses of the weakest parts of our relationships. And that was true for me and me and my partner, Danielle, as well. And I remember one night in particular, we were my first daughter cadence, she was three months old. And we had got a job in Portland. So we had moved away from our home in Vancouver. And, you know, thinking back on that time, now, having this newborn in a new city, it's like, just thinking, hey, this is great, you know, we're gonna have enough we have a kid and the kids just we're gonna continue our life as normal. And, and I remember one evening, you know, one of the many evenings like two, three o'clock in the morning, in the pitch dark, Danielle's trying to get some sleep. And I'm with cadence walking up and down the hallway, in the darkness, alone, in the quiet, and how sweet that time was with my daughter, but also just how quiet and alone it felt. And I had this moment where I thought of all the other fathers out there, at this moment, in the middle of the night, calmly walking up and down in a circle down a hallway, back and forth, trying to get their child back to sleep. And just that, knowing that they were out there, these other fathers offered this this sense of solidarity of knowing that wow, you know, I'm not the first one to ever do this, I won't be the last. I'm now joined into this brotherhood of fathers, whether I know them or not. And it just sparked an idea as I want to connect with these men more, and how can we support each other not just in, in theory.

Thank you, Shawn. I, of course relate to both of what you guys have been saying. The that new child bringing pressure on the relationship. And all the ways in which the hardest parts of my experience with my relationship, of course, have been, like you guys have mentioned. Right after. And in the first few years of having a new child. I don't know that any other initiation that I've been through that's been as challenging and as poked at all of my, my own buttons. This, I'm curious how you guys from that place? How did you connect and how did this co creation unfold, to create the rat that collective?

You know, pick it up of during kind of this day of reckoning with my partner and relationship and fatherhood. I was in a leadership program for the collective Training Institute. And part of that was create a quest out in the world that's meaningful for you that requires leadership. There's kind of there's different parameters. And so at the time was so precedent around fatherhood, like the challenge of fatherhood, raising the bar of fatherhood was really top of mind for me of just looking out into the world and seeing like very few examples of positive male role models when it came to fatherhood. Just realizing the bar is actually tremendously low when it comes to what people are praised for as being a father in the world. Just through that program, I landed on an idea around some sort of Red Dead camp. output requests, you had to have like a very specific closing date. Like we've accomplished the quest idea. As a Shawn was top of mind or kids are very close to nature, we're both very in the early stages of fatherhood. So it was a conversation. Let's create a music festival style kid orientated event, somewhere in the Lower Mainland, instead of Vancouver, we're going to enroll some other dads we know. So we kind of got into this creative mode together. Imagine this imagine putting this element together. What about this brought another dear friend, Peter Murphy, an older man with older kids to kind of be part of it, that the creation and then as we ramp this up, we're actually looking at venues of where to put this thing. And then 2020 spring rolls around COVID lands on our doorstep, everything shutting down, and we're really put the brakes on it. It was just like, we can't, we can't book a venue to get a bunch of kids. And that's together in it's such an uncertain time. So from that place, we pivoted online. And we're just like, well, this is we're all stuck at home. How do we support each other? So I think are mature shown you can remember but I think the first one there's about 10 dads from all over kind of BC and Western United States, personal friends that we just invited, let's meet for think we did six weeks of every single week, let's meet and do a Red Dead circle and just connect, connect over fatherhood connect over what's real for us connect over some of the challenges some of the joys, and that was really landing on this special flavor of men circle, which both Shawn and I are not sat in many men's circles before. But there's a unique flavor with sitting with other dads on a similar journey. That until I experienced, I didn't know that I was missing that in my life, or just having this such a deep resonance with other men around such a profound experience. It's like, Oh, I get I get it. When you're up in the middle of the night and holding this baby, I get it when you're talking with your partner, I get it, you know, the stress and the pressure. So that was kind of the seed of it all. And then it's been shifting and morphing in many different versions since then.

Yeah, I'm a blessed participant in it. So I love hearing this. How about you, Sean, what was going on for you in the co creation?

Yeah, there was such a, you know, a blessing in terms of the shift from, you know, the original vision of let's do a rad dad camp out. And, you know, being hadn't been forced to be online, where it's kind of forced to slow down and be like, look at this from, you know, what is the longevity play here with this, and I believe we called it Council of fathers was those first sessions that we ran, week after week. And similarly, with David, you know, being involved in men's work, for the last almost 10 years. There is such a gift in being involved in those circles. And, and I remember just after a while, once I became a father, I just recognized I couldn't bring the same struggles that I was having around fatherhood. Because most of the men, most of the group, most of the men in the group that I was in were not fathers. And so it kind of just started like me complaining about the challenges of fatherhood. And there was no place for it to land. And, and so it really showed the, the need for myself to be among a group of fathers in that way. And, you know, one story around that time, just before, you know, the official formation of the RAD dad collective, it was just just around the time that my second daughter was born. And David had to become happened to be in town around that time. And you know, it's such a miraculous mysterious thing, childbirth, you know, women going to the, their threshold to bring to make way for life to come through. And you know, what a gift and, you know, I think the ultimate act of service for a woman and for a man to be able to show up for a woman in that time. And in order to do that there needs to be almost, you know, for myself, recognizing that there was the wider container around me as well. So it was I could see my wife right there in that moment, and then me with her, but then knowing that I had a group of men around me, and I'd called David around that time and it was at the we were at the hospital after my second was born. And Um, you know, after this big long day of birth and labor and I came out and there he was in the parking lot, you know, brought some food, some supplies for us to then take back in. And it was a first a moment where I could just let go, and all the things that I was holding on to to be strong to be there to be present. Here, he was just a little bit arm's length away from being all in the trenches. And so he was able to hold that space for me. And I remember just going out and getting a big hug, and just really, you know, letting go of all that, that I've held on to. And just that little exchange that we had allowed me to then go back into the hospital and show up again, how I wanted to show up. And so just another experience that I had of realizing like, wow, how important and powerful this can be, to be supported by other fathers.

Yeah, I was taught a lot when you spoke the just the letting go holding all these things. And then the chance to let it go for a moment in in the space held by another man. So important. Yeah. I'm curious as now that we're all experiencing this, what can we say about the experience? What can we celebrate about the existence of throughout that collective the way it's being experienced by us now?

For myself, I think about it in terms of the, you know, the greatest gift for me is a continual reminder, you know, similar to that moment, to coming out into the parking lot and having the knock by David, just, like remembering of recentering a reorientation almost like a tune up, really. And, you know, our weekly bi weekly tune up in that way.

For me, there's, there's a part of the original intention was around creating some element of village or like, how do I raise my kids, with other strong men in their lives, so that I don't have to hold it all. I don't have to teach them all. I don't have to be that person for them. That everything. So as this kind of been unfolding, in the past couple of years, it's really like this village, has been forming, deepening and strengthening. And I've had the opportunity now to meet many of the red dads in person and experience their families experiencing their partners really being more intertwined in their life. And there's just a level of intimacy that I think part of fatherhood is such can be such a lonely road of I'm, I'm the person screwing up or I'm not doing this right, or everyone else has got this nailed. And I'm somehow can't figure it out. And just having that village or community for myself, it's like, oh, no, it's like, everybody's struggling to sub capacity at different times. And today, it might be me, and tomorrow might be Shawn, and the next day might be Matthew. And just that reminder of, oh, yeah, we're, we're all in this together and our own flavor. And it goes through different seasons. And I think that's been powerful for me to see many men go through different seasons, like we're a couple of years. And now it's like, there's been multiple births, there's been people moving houses, buying houses, separations, there's been deaths, you know, pretty much every large event. It's like having being part of the village. It's like, how do we support a man through that? How are we there for that person in kind of the lowest of the lows, and then when my time comes around, which it does, I know, I have a place to go to be supported and kind of be held for a moment. The power for me is just that I have whatsapp on my phone. And there's 10 Plus guys in the area, and that I can message at any moment, which is just to the safety net that I think so many men have nothing comparable to and the value for that just knowing it's there. Mix those moments of challenge difficulty and parenting just that much easier.

Yeah, yeah. Well said, David, you know, I think in terms of, it's just, it's too hard to do it alone. And, you know, we were never meant meant to raise children alone. And, you know, being able to have a community of men to lean on and to support to celebrate the joys and, and, and, and then also to be with lean on each other in the challenging moments, is such an anchor in my life. And something that allows me to tether myself to when everything around me seems to be in chaos. And so I just continually come and keep coming back to that sense that it's a reminder for me, I just can't imagine, I can't remember how many times I've come off a call. And I'm in a completely different state than when I went on. And I realized now I'm I'm refocused and reoriented to why is this matter? Being able to look at myself objectively, how am I actually showing up being able to get on it? Just reflections through my shares of being able to own what is mine, what isn't mine, so that I could then come back and beat and show up as the father and the partner that I want to be.

So I'll just add one more thing here is, the gift to you, for me is having other men who are older than me. And a bit farther along in the journey of fatherhood, my kids are five and two years, almost two years old, sort of sit with other men who have teenagers or, you know, eight 910 year olds, it gives me that perspective of what's coming down the pike. How do I learn from these men who have gone through their struggles and gone through, you know, what's working and what's not? And how do I take those and start applying them to what I'm creating for my household and family, so that I don't have to go through the pain and suffering that they might have get to have gone through. And essentially just learning from, like, learning from people's past mistakes so that I don't have to go down that road. It's so valuable. And I just feel like we're sitting around a campfire 1000 years ago be saying, hey, what's working? Like? How does this work? Let's go emotionally

intelligent caveman. Yes. I, there's plenty, because the sort of the last topic I want to dive into, you're gonna take a chance to share from myself first, which is, like, why is this especially important for someone like me? And that's the question I want you guys to take a moment to answer as well. And I want to say briefly for myself, I see myself as someone who most of my life has been fairly hard on myself, like, I will take on the responsibility of the problem before I think it's shared. And also someone who's had a harder time speaking up, whether it for help, or for support, and that kind of thing. And, of course, through men's work that changed. And now in a father's context, it's so important and needed. And I think that's why for someone like me, this group is working well. And I wonder if you could say anything about, like, who you have been who you are, that makes this especially important for you? Yeah,

I mean, it's, it's a great question. I think it's, you know, unique to everyone really, you know, and I speak for myself, you know, why I think that, you know, it's kind of comes to really starting the podcast as well, you know, what I can hope that anybody gets out of this is just a willingness to know that they're not alone, that there men in their community want to be supported, that want to be relational in relationship with, you know, whether that's through a formal men's group, like we're doing with rad that collective or not, you know, and I think that was part of the dream that they had, and I spoke about when we were beginning, the collective was that, you know, what is it that each of our mentors kind of oriented us in that way, and is what is it do you want in your life as a father, and it really kind of allowed us to focus in on? Well, truly, I want to be among a community of families, that the dads, you know, once a week, every two weeks get together and have intentional time about looking at how they're Champa fathers, what's working, what's not working and support each other in that way. And also having the fun social time as well of outside of the family life and just to be able to blow off some steam and to be able to go out and get active and go on a hike together, whatever it might be, to have those relationships as bonds, and then to have these people involved in my in my child's life to genuinely care about the upbringing of my children. And knowing that I'm not raising them alone. And, you know, my capacity as a parent really only goes so far, you know, it's feeding them it's housing, making sure they're safe. But more of the sole work that's required in raising a child into a, you know, into an adult is comes from the aunties and the uncles. And so, you know, my hope is that, you know, in hearing this podcast or recognizing that this is out there is not from a place of, oh, I wish I had that. But really, of well, I could have that too, and that there's so many other fathers longing for that same type of connection.

Yeah, I add on to that, if like, the simplicity of the RAD dad collective of just dads getting together and talking about meaningful topics, and how that's changed my life or change my orientation to fatherhood and, and how, with technology now, it's so easy to connect, you know, resume over WhatsApp that there isn't really an excuse not to have something like this in your life. Like it just being vulnerable, reaching out to men in your in one's community, and link it back to where I started. It's like I didn't have that. My lowest product didn't have a community of men that that specific around fatherhood that could help me through that, you know, really dark time with my partner in my phone. Other kids struggle. And through creating this together, it's exactly what Sean is saying. It's like having this village now that I can lean on and raise my kid with and I'm getting I get excited as I think about my kids turning into teenagers and having other teenagers, you know, their lives and other adults in their lives that have known them their entire life. And being able to support them like what a recipe for success compared to this solo parenting in a very nucular family. It's just to me it. To me, that's not leading to success. So

yeah, we're good. I would say that's insanity. Yes. Yeah. Any closing thoughts? Or do you guys feel complete on this topic of the origin at the route that collective? Yeah,

I feel I feel complete about it. Yeah, it's great to be able to kind of reflect back on the journey so far, and think, wow, you know, where we're at now. And you know, that the online groups been going we did several of the Council of fathers series of six weeks, and we might likely do more of those in the future. And then, you know, we've been meeting bi weekly for, is it two years now? Just over two years? Over? Yeah. Yeah. Well, with the online group up and in my local community started in person one as well, which has been really great Twente for about a year. And, yeah, it just, it's nice to take a moment to pause and reflect on the experience so far. And just as we're doing here, it's a reminder of myself of now, oh, yeah, this is why this is important. And then I kind of go back into it and get back into the trenches. You have another newborn, and just kind of how oftentimes my den my wife, and I will just realize that we're both in the trenches working hard. And it's the moment and we forget to acknowledge that we're both in the trenches together and look at each other and acknowledge how hard we're both working. And, you know, being a part of something like, this just helps to remind me, oh, yeah, we're both and we're both working really hard. And, you know, we're in the trenches at this stage in our life, and it won't always be this way. Now, just

appreciate you Matthew, leading us through this experience, and having the opportunity to reflect and, and just celebrating everybody who's passed through the doors of the Red Dead collective, because it's just been a rich experience for me personally, to have these men all over the country really, to have a connection to me, and I have a connection to their family and how that enriches my life. And, you know, I hope I enrich their life in some way. So again, just being a force for good when it comes to fatherhood, the role model, being part of other men who are excited about fatherhood, and being good fathers, it just feels like an exciting time, you know, to be a young father and to be raising kids in this world. And this brings me a lot of hope, at the end of the day, that, that there's something really good coming out of all of this, and I'm excited to be a part of it.

And then, yeah, I always feel like the the inner work or the work in a small group, has a ripple effect the world even I can't see it, even if it's energetic and happens in small ways over time. So this is meaningful to me around that as well. Thank you both. Think this community is a gift for all who participate. And I hope this podcasts is received as a gift for all who listen. So goodbye for now.

Thanks, Matthew.

Thank you