Sign up to get updates from us
Today we dive into what a healthy female relationship looks like - from business to friendship and all the in-betweens. Our guests Melissa April and Katherine Blanco host The Yoni Codes Podcast and discovered and deepened their female relationship dynamic through conversations based around a birth and re-birthing experience.
Listen in as these wise women share their experiences of both healthy and wounded female relationships, how to model healthy dynamics for their children and friends, and surrendering to the possibilities of beautiful, deep, and lasting friendships that are based on respect and honest communication.
Guest Bios:
Melissa April - Rebirth Guide, Transformational Coach, Purpose Path Doula & Podcast Host
Melissa holds sacred space for women to re-imagine what a joy-filled life is, refine their life’s work, and re-birth into the woman that walks with confidence as she brings her wild feminine magic and vision into the world.
Melissa lives with the love of her life and their two beautiful 15 months old twins on the Westcoast of Canada.
Katherine Blanco - Birth Keeper, Childbirth Educator, Yoga Teacher, Holistic Reproductive Practitioner, Women’s Circle Facilitator, & Podcast Host
Katherine is called is to be a beacon of light for others to find the way back to their innate wisdom and sovereignty. Her practice is rooted in supporting women navigating all facets of their childbearing years, both as an online mentor and in-person guide.
Katherine lives on the Sunshine Coast, BC with her beloved of over 20 years and their four radiant children.
Guest Social Media links
Instagram - @theyonicodes
Website - https://the-yoni-codes.captivate.fm/listen
Disclaimer:
On the No Halos Here Podcast, we explore a wide range of topics broadly categorized as well-being. We encourage you to do your own research and make informed choices about your health and wellbeing. The information we provide is never a substitute for qualified advice specific to your individual needs. In listening, you take full responsibility for implementing any suggestions shared on the podcast and you agree to indemnify us completely against all consequences arising directly or indirectly from your choices.
About Jen and Jane
Jen Lang
Jen believes in the power and wisdom of women’s voices. She’s a guide for women who want to tune into and align their inner voice so their outer voice can shine; uniting physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual energies into a powerful voice ready to share your message.
Jane Stark
Passionate about energetic alignment and living life from a place of personal power, Jane is a heart-centered leader, certified health and life coach and marketing strategist. She leads others to play bigger and feel lighter by helping them see and navigate their blocks and connect more deeply with themselves.
Continue the conversation:
Instagram: www.instagram.com/wearejenandjane
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WeareJenandJane
Community: Get the Empowerment Playbook (and access our Community Calls) here: https://www.wearejenandjane.com/playbook
Thanks for listening!
Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a note in the comment section below!
Follow our podcast
To receive automatic updates on this podcast, please follow on your platform of choice.
Leave us a review
We appreciate every bit of feedback to make this a value-adding part of your day. Ratings and reviews from our listeners not only help us improve, but also help others find us in their podcast app. If you have a minute, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Thank You!!
This is no halos here hosted by Jen Lang and Jane
Jen Lang:Stark, the place to inspire a change in your consciousness to
Jen Lang:elevate the world. We're to heart centered business owners
Jen Lang:nourishing our inner rebels while growing our respective
Jen Lang:businesses.
Jane Stark:No halos here is the result of bringing together an
Jane Stark:opera singer turn spiritual mentor and a marketing
Jane Stark:professional turned well being coached to meditate daily.
Jane Stark:Together we unite physical, mental, emotional and spiritual
Jane Stark:energies into a powerful presence to lead heal and
Jane Stark:inspire. We love exploring the shadowed edges of life, the
Jane Stark:universe and beyond through honest and thought provoking
Jane Stark:conversations. Let's dive in.
Jen Lang:Hi, everybody, and welcome back to another episode
Jen Lang:of no halos here with Jen Lang and Jane Stark. This week we
Jen Lang:have some really fantastic and fun guests. We have this
Jen Lang:podcasting duo powerhouse, awesome women of Melissa April
Jen Lang:and Catherine Blanco. They have a podcast called The Yoni codes.
Jen Lang:I'm going to introduce each of them individually, and then
Jen Lang:we're all gonna like have a great conversation about awesome
Jen Lang:things, which I hope that you will hear shortly. So I don't
Jen Lang:know anything else to add right now. Jan. Go for it. Okay, so,
Jen Lang:Melissa April is a rebirth guide and transformational soul coach,
Jen Lang:she holds space for women to reclaim their feminine essence
Jen Lang:and breathe magic into their sacred work. She lives in
Jen Lang:Vancouver with her 15 month old twins and the love of her life
Jen Lang:of 16 years. Thank you, Melissa for being here. And Catherine
Jen Lang:Blanco is a birth keeper and childbirth educator. She is
Jen Lang:called to be a beacon of light for others to find their way
Jen Lang:back to their innate wisdom and sovereignty. Her practice is
Jen Lang:rooted in supporting women navigating all facets of their
Jen Lang:childbearing years, both as an online mentor and an in person
Jen Lang:guide. She lives on the Sunshine Coast BC with her beloved over
Jen Lang:20 years and therefore radiant children. welcome Melissa and
Jen Lang:Catherine.
Melissa April:Thank you so much for having us. We're so happy to
Melissa April:be here. Yeah.
Jen Lang:So great. Yeah. Okay, Jane, take it away. What are we
Jen Lang:talking about today?
Jane Stark:Oh, this we actually so Jen and I were guests on
Jane Stark:Catherine and Melissa's podcast last week we recorded together.
Jane Stark:And it was such a powerful conversation that Jen and I have
Jane Stark:really been sort of unpacking it more in processing parts of it,
Jane Stark:that we wanted to bring it to our podcast and kind of the
Jane Stark:extension. So we're not going to have the same discussions. But
Jane Stark:we're gonna kind of extend from that. And Katherine, and
Jane Stark:Melissa, you guys really asked us some really, really good
Jane Stark:questions that helped us unpack a little bit more around Jen and
Jane Stark:I's relationship and business partnership and how we sort of
Jane Stark:came to be and it's got us really thinking and talking a
Jane Stark:lot about relationships, but specifically, female
Jane Stark:relationships. And what do healthy female relationships
Jane Stark:look like? How does that play out in our life, whether that's
Jane Stark:in business, just friendship, all the different facets. So
Jane Stark:that's sort of the broad, sorry, the broad topic that we want to
Jane Stark:hop into today, but before we go there, I would love to have you
Jane Stark:guys share a little bit more about the work that you do both
Jane Stark:individually and together with your podcast, and perhaps other
Jane Stark:things that you might be working on together. I'm not sure
Jane Stark:there's things but do you want to maybe start you guys pick
Jane Stark:whoever wants to start here and just sort of share a little bit
Jane Stark:more about that and how you came to be?
Katherine Blanco:Thank you, Jane. I'll go first. This is
Katherine Blanco:Catherine speaking. Um, so in my intro, I, it's very simplified.
Katherine Blanco:I'm a birth keeper and a birth educator. But I feel that my
Katherine Blanco:work is so much more in depth than than just holding space at
Katherine Blanco:women's births. And part of my call in this lifetime is to help
Katherine Blanco:women tap in with their innate wisdom, with their inner knowing
Katherine Blanco:of how, how birth can actually be a transformational time in
Katherine Blanco:their lives. So my birth education goes beyond the
Katherine Blanco:anatomy, which I also really nerd out about. I love speaking
Katherine Blanco:to women's bodies, our bodies are amazing, and how they
Katherine Blanco:support us in childbirth but also the energetics and, and the
Katherine Blanco:transformational experience of giving birth to new life and how
Katherine Blanco:it's an opportunity for us to claim a rebirth of ourselves as
Katherine Blanco:well.
Jen Lang:That's super powerful. Yeah. Having the being the only
Jen Lang:person here Who has not actually birth to a child? Physically? i
Jen Lang:Yeah, it's powerful. I have the utmost respect, I saw my sister
Jen Lang:birth her second child, and it was one of the most moving and
Jen Lang:powerful experiences of my life. It was a beautiful, beautiful
Jen Lang:thing to witness. Melissa,
Katherine Blanco:when I Oh, sorry. Yeah, that's okay. I was
Katherine Blanco:just gonna add, I feel that our western culture and, and perhaps
Katherine Blanco:more all over the world, in terms of our modern times, is
Katherine Blanco:really taken birth into the medical space. And, of course,
Katherine Blanco:there are in instances where birth doesn't need to be a
Katherine Blanco:medical event. But I would say that the majority of the time
Katherine Blanco:birth unfolds beautifully, unhindered, and, and can be in
Katherine Blanco:the the home environment for most of us. And that is, that is
Katherine Blanco:sort of my realm of geniuses is bringing people back to, to the
Katherine Blanco:bare bones, or the root of giving birth.
Jane Stark:I'm curious to know, did you always feel this was
Jane Stark:sort of your calling like you've had you have four children? Was
Jane Stark:this sort of there for you before even beginning that
Jane Stark:journey? Or is this something that's grown out of having your
Jane Stark:own?
Katherine Blanco:That's a wonderful question. So when I
Katherine Blanco:was 18 years old, and sort of thinking about the my life path,
Katherine Blanco:and I had this conversation with my father, who's also one of my
Katherine Blanco:best friends, and he's like, What are you? What are you
Katherine Blanco:feeling into for your, for your future? And I told him like,
Katherine Blanco:well, I just, I really know that I want to be a mom. I knew I
Katherine Blanco:knew that that was a part of my purpose. And I even told him,
Katherine Blanco:I'm like, I feel that becoming a mother is going to lead me to my
Katherine Blanco:life purpose. And that is exactly what happened. I was
Katherine Blanco:also 18 When I started dating my now husband, and we had our
Katherine Blanco:first child quite young. And it was after her birth, and
Katherine Blanco:speaking to my experience, and how empowering and beautiful and
Katherine Blanco:well, how it unfolded, I realized that, oh, there is
Katherine Blanco:something here for me. And this is what I'm here to do is to to
Katherine Blanco:help women have have the same not the same experience, but to
Katherine Blanco:feel into their power when it comes to their childbirth
Katherine Blanco:experience. Awesome.
Jane Stark:Thanks for sharing that.
Jen Lang:We hear more. But yeah, let's
Jane Stark:come back to that. Let's hear your story.
Melissa April:Ah, well, I just want to second everything
Melissa April:Catherine was saying because she was my my doula. She's my birth
Melissa April:keeper, one of them. And yeah, I'm sure we'll dive into it
Melissa April:more. But birth has become such a big part of my life and the
Melissa April:work that I do in in more of a cosmic sense around rebirth and
Melissa April:how we die so much in this lifetime to become who more of
Melissa April:who we are. And this process started before I became
Melissa April:pregnant, it started, really, when I decided that yeah, we
Melissa April:wanted to start a family. And it took us several years to do
Melissa April:that. But I entered into this intentional space of rebirth.
Melissa April:And so now how I support my clients, I started off as a
Melissa April:health coach and kind of morphed into life coaching and to
Melissa April:business coaching and then started to pull in spiritual
Melissa April:subtle realms into my work. I feel like this is so similar to
Melissa April:Jane what you were sharing. Yes, yeah. And my whole My whole life
Melissa April:has been about figuring out like, my purpose. What is my
Melissa April:purpose? What are my beauty, my suppose? into the world? What
Melissa April:are my gifts? I'm
Jane Stark:sorry, are you? Are you we talked last week briefly,
Jane Stark:too, but human designing and take us off for a second here.
Jane Stark:But are you at three, five? Yeah, that you? That's why I'm
Jane Stark:three five as well. You're a manifesting generator, right.
Jane Stark:I'm Yeah, but yeah, that's 359. Yeah. And that's probably where
Jane Stark:we have that similar. Oh, yeah. Anyway, sorry.
Melissa April:Yeah. No, it's amazing. So I feel like I'm,
Melissa April:I've just like accepted now that my work will continue to evolve
Melissa April:as I continue to evolve, and I don't know where I will be in 10
Melissa April:years, but I'm excited for it. Anyways, so. Now, you know,
Melissa April:really what I work with women around is, people always come to
Melissa April:me wanting to be like literally every person wanting to be seen
Melissa April:and heard. I just want to feel seen and heard. I want to feel
Melissa April:like I can express myself the way that I want to. I work with
Melissa April:women who they have a gift, they have a passion, they have a
Melissa April:medicine to bring the world and they're doing it but they are
Melissa April:holding themselves back in some way then they know it and they
Melissa April:can feel it and they can sense it and they're sick and tired of
Melissa April:it. And what I do is I help women bridge that gap, I help
Melissa April:them close it so that they can walk over to what they actually
Melissa April:want with ease. And that is the rebirth. That is the shedding
Melissa April:the molting and the opening to what is actually theirs because
Melissa April:they are embracing all of who they are. So I work, I love
Melissa April:transfer, I'm trained in transforming transformational
Melissa April:coaching. And so I love that aspect. But I bring in the
Melissa April:Akashic records I bring in I'm a channeler of Christ
Melissa April:consciousness. I love working in ceremony, I weave that into all
Melissa April:of my work. So it's dynamic and beautiful. And yeah, that's what
Melissa April:I do.
Jen Lang:Beautiful. Oh, we have so many cross correlations, I
Jen Lang:think between the four of us in so many ways that we work or
Jen Lang:interact or work with clients or the way our gifts Express.
Melissa April:Yeah, yeah, I think so. We, we just like, hit
Melissa April:it off. We get on the calls. And we're like,
Jane Stark:Yeah, let's talk forever. Can you guys now okay,
Jane Stark:you both kind of give it a bit of your own little glimpse into
Jane Stark:your own stuff, your own story, stuff. Your own story, how you
Jane Stark:alluded to it a little bit there, Melissa, but how did you
Jane Stark:guys kind of come to be a duo? And what is that became like for
Jane Stark:you? Yeah. So
Melissa April:Katherine, and I met when I, well, we actually
Melissa April:met before I was pregnant, we didn't know then, that we were
Melissa April:going to work together. But we were in a Kundalini dance
Melissa April:program together. And so we dance together, we don't speak
Melissa April:we speak only at the beginning and at the end when we're
Melissa April:integrating. And so we dance together. And it ended up
Melissa April:opening up this whole situation where I hired a birth keeper,
Melissa April:who was also in that dance class, who was very good friends
Melissa April:and not not coworkers, but you know, they they work together.
Melissa April:Yes, yes, that's it. Thank you. That's the word. And because I
Melissa April:was moving out of the Vancouver area, Jasmine had brought on
Melissa April:Catherine and so Catherine and I met each other. I think I was
Melissa April:about six months pregnant, maybe five months, I can't remember
Melissa April:quite how much how far along I was. But it was, I feel like we
Melissa April:met each other and we got to know each other in the most
Melissa April:beautiful way. And I feel like this is bins are almost like a
Melissa April:redefining moment. For me. And I think I could probably speak for
Melissa April:Katherine as well, in how we want to have female
Melissa April:relationships, how we want to interact and how we want to get
Melissa April:to know each other because I was in the most vulnerable state of
Melissa April:my entire life. And Catherine witnessed me through that whole
Melissa April:that whole situation through pregnancy through the birth of
Melissa April:my twins, all the way 10 months postpartum, we had the most
Melissa April:incredible conversations that like I'm full body chills, just
Melissa April:like thinking about the connection that we created. And
Melissa April:it was just kind of like yeah, why are we not recording
Melissa April:conversations I feel selfish of us to, to not to not be sharing
Melissa April:this and opening it up and and yeah, like opening this dialogue
Melissa April:for more more of us to be in conversation about this, these
Melissa April:quiet conversations that we have together, why are we not having
Melissa April:them as a bigger collective, spreading that like, Goddess
Melissa April:energy through the world that's very much needed right now.
Katherine Blanco:And I have to say, like Melissa has been
Katherine Blanco:someone in my life who's helped me define who I want to continue
Katherine Blanco:to work with, because she really went into the work that I really
Katherine Blanco:desire to help women through in pregnancy which is also bringing
Katherine Blanco:in the shadow side of of the experience and really walking
Katherine Blanco:through that in an embodied way. And so that was really exciting
Katherine Blanco:as well for me to work with a soul client in that way and to
Katherine Blanco:have that experience just expand our relationship and go beyond
Katherine Blanco:beyond are just like working client birth deeper relationship
Katherine Blanco:into something deeper. And but I think it's also like, everyone
Katherine Blanco:should have a friend that's a transformational coach because
Katherine Blanco:so true, because that's what's gonna happen is they're gonna
Katherine Blanco:help you expand and become more and more of who you really are.
Melissa April:Yeah, I feel like that's what it is, right? It's,
Melissa April:I mean, speaking of female relationships, it's like I feel
Melissa April:that our relationship has been one where in the process of
Melissa April:getting to know each other become more of who I have always
Melissa April:been meant to be in the world. And I think that's a really
Melissa April:special a sacred gift that you got to hold close to you and and
Melissa April:realize that that's, that's what it's meant to be like. I mean,
Melissa April:we're also meant to have conflict of course, and but it's
Melissa April:how we move through that which Katherine and I have also had to
Melissa April:navigate. And so anyways, it's it's like rewriting a whole new
Melissa April:paradigm, especially as female leaders in the world and
Melissa April:healers. Thank you. Yeah,
Jen Lang:thank you for that. It's, I love how you described
Jen Lang:it as is defining this new paradigm of what from an
Jen Lang:unrelated but healthy feminine relationships are and can be,
Jen Lang:and it's taking it less away from quote, unquote, should be
Jen Lang:because obviously, should still implies a filter of what
Jen Lang:someone's expectation of what that might be. Where, when you
Jen Lang:look at the potential of what a healthy and powerful and
Jen Lang:uplifting, feminine relationship, whether it's
Jen Lang:friendship and business or business on its own, or
Jen Lang:workplace colleagues, all of those definitions and parameters
Jen Lang:are in place for a reason. And you can go further, and that
Jen Lang:that growth happens at the edges. So then when we honor,
Jen Lang:like you said, there, there are moments of conflict. But it's
Jen Lang:how we move through that conflict that can strengthen and
Jen Lang:further expand that relationship. I think too often
Jen Lang:we're not shown a, we're not shown or modeled away, that
Jen Lang:moves through conflict in a way that's productive. That's
Jen Lang:conflict based on you know, we've seen it backstabbing and
Jen Lang:down talking or, you know, gossip, and it's so it's just so
Jen Lang:poisonous. It's like poisonous, it just, it takes root, and then
Jen Lang:it grows and expands. It's passed on through generations,
Jen Lang:it gets perpetuated and perpetuated. And there's a
Jen Lang:better way to move forward. And especially when we're talking
Jen Lang:about expanding and embracing this divine feminine energy that
Jen Lang:has been suppressed in us for so long, when we let go of that
Jen Lang:poison and let go and just like you can neutralize it, just move
Jen Lang:past it and move through it. You don't have to sit there with a
Jen Lang:counter poison or counter cure. You just neutralize it and move
Jen Lang:move forward.
Katherine Blanco:And we've even found that speaking our truth
Katherine Blanco:and being honest with one another, even if it's
Katherine Blanco:uncomfortable has only deepened our relationship rather than
Katherine Blanco:pulled us apart. It's like we keep going into a deeper layer
Jane Stark:nobody our audience can't see but we have a little
Jane Stark:that we have. Catherine has groans Yeah.
Melissa April:If you ever tuned into the Yoni codes, she's she's
Melissa April:our third co host. Little Miss Cora.
Jen Lang:Cora, the co host lover. Yes. Awesome. Yeah,
Jen Lang:exactly. She's the co host here today. So it's all good. It's
Jen Lang:all good. So then, can you talk a little talk to speak to you a
Jen Lang:little bit about what moving through those times of conflicts
Jen Lang:looks like for each of you, maybe Melissa? Well, Catherine's
Jen Lang:occupied, you can
Melissa April:see in this relationship,
Jen Lang:and yeah, it specifically in your in your
Jen Lang:relationship, your business partnership or your co hosting?
Jen Lang:How would you define that?
Melissa April:Well, how do we move through the conflict? I
Melissa April:think it's, you know, not letting it fester. It's trusting
Melissa April:that I can be in my truth and that Catherine is strong enough
Melissa April:to hold that. Or that Catherine can be in her truth and that I'm
Melissa April:strong enough to hold that. Even if maybe I don't agree, or she
Melissa April:doesn't agree, like we are able to. We're able to bring that to
Melissa April:each other. And that really only came with like, the first time
Melissa April:you have a conflict. You have to just see how it goes. Right. And
Melissa April:I think that's been a big learning. For so many women is
Melissa April:like we're undoing this narrative of being scared to
Melissa April:speak our truth. With being scared to have a boundary being
Melissa April:scared to hold ourselves in our own power, and sorry, my audio
Melissa April:just went a little weird. Can you hear me stuff? Yeah, yeah,
Melissa April:we
Jen Lang:can hear you fine.
Melissa April:Okay, there we go. So yeah, being able to hold
Melissa April:ourselves in our own power and, and regardless of what the other
Melissa April:person does if the other person can't handle it, that's their,
Melissa April:that's theirs? And how and can we trust that they can be in
Melissa April:their own energy, even if it's not what we want them to, even
Melissa April:if they're not responding in the way that we want them to
Melissa April:respond. And so yeah, Catherine had to step out for just a
Melissa April:minute. But you know, the first time we had something, it was
Melissa April:like something so small. And I like I like when Catherine
Melissa April:actually speaks to it. She does such a beautiful job, I'm just
Melissa April:telling them about the first time we had her. We had a little
Melissa April:thing come up. And it was something that she had said that
Melissa April:it hurt my feelings a little bit. And I don't, for the life
Melissa April:of me even remember what it was. But I remember thinking like,
Melissa April:oh, unless it's not a big deal. Like, you know, Katherine's
Melissa April:heart, like, she would never mean anything to hurt you, like,
Melissa April:just leave it, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. And she was at
Melissa April:my house, postpartum, do lying, and supporting me, my family,
Melissa April:and she's with her. Anyways, I had to, I stepped out for an
Melissa April:errand and I was just thinking about it and thinking about it.
Melissa April:And like I do not, I just remember thinking in the car,
Melissa April:like, I cannot let this sit and fester. Like I can't I will not
Melissa April:risk the relationship that we are creating right now. And the
Melissa April:even just as a, you know, my doula and a client, like, that
Melissa April:was so important to me. And then but also the personal
Melissa April:relationship that was biting from that. And so I was like,
Melissa April:Okay, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna bring it up. I'm just gonna say
Melissa April:something. And so I, I came home, and I'm just like, I just
Melissa April:wanted to like, remember that comment? You did, he said, and
Melissa April:that, that didn't feel good for me to receive. And it was
Melissa April:actually the best thing that I think ever happened for our
Melissa April:relationship. Because
Katherine Blanco:it was so it's like, one of the most moving
Katherine Blanco:experiences. It sounds so silly, but it was one of the most
Katherine Blanco:moving experiences I've had in a friendship before because I have
Katherine Blanco:been known to make weird jokes, our say things and then be like,
Katherine Blanco:where did that come from? Like that. Like, I shouldn't have
Katherine Blanco:said that. Oh, shit, like, where's that landed, and then
Katherine Blanco:like, Okay, move along. But, and then perhaps hurt people, but
Katherine Blanco:not recognize it or realized it until later. So for her to call
Katherine Blanco:me out on it, or actually, it didn't even feel like she was
Katherine Blanco:calling me out. It felt like she was calling me in. Because I was
Katherine Blanco:so touched, actually, I'm tearing up just talking about it
Katherine Blanco:right now, because I burst into tears. And I was like, thank
Katherine Blanco:you. I am so sorry, that was really inappropriate. But I
Katherine Blanco:don't know where that came from. And I take full responsibility
Katherine Blanco:that I should have thought before speaking. And I do not
Katherine Blanco:want to damage our relationship is bashley are biting
Katherine Blanco:friendship. And I was so honored that she would respect me enough
Katherine Blanco:to call me in and say that I had hurt her. Rather than letting it
Katherine Blanco:be something between us that would make her push me away over
Katherine Blanco:time. And it shifted. I feel like it shifted our dynamic
Katherine Blanco:pretty much immediately. And we became so much closer after
Katherine Blanco:that. And I started sharing things with her and outside of
Katherine Blanco:our friendship. But I felt like I could speak more honestly with
Katherine Blanco:her about things that were going on in my life. And it seemed
Katherine Blanco:risk reciprocal back. And it actually opened up this whole
Katherine Blanco:new dynamic between us it was really really powerful. And it
Katherine Blanco:was also so simple.
Melissa April:And there's probably just even you talking
Melissa April:about I'm like, we probably wouldn't have a podcast today
Melissa April:together and be doing the work in the world that we are doing,
Melissa April:if we didn't have that one situation to move through. But I
Melissa April:was like flabbergasted why she responded the way that she did
Melissa April:because so often I have held my tongue. I have been so flimsy
Melissa April:with my boundaries. I have been so scared to say anything
Melissa April:because I've lost friendships from doing so. My and you know,
Melissa April:when I tried to do it from the most loving way possible So to
Melissa April:have somebody respond in that way was like, what is happening?
Melissa April:This is like,
Jane Stark:Yeah, this is so powerful. And that's like I just
Jane Stark:listening to you guys share that story. To me, I'm like, wow,
Jane Stark:that takes so much. It takes courage, it takes trust, and it
Jane Stark:takes vulnerability, right? Like, yeah, we've I think we've
Jane Stark:maybe I have it all, but I know I've had those experiences to
Jane Stark:where I've tried to speak up, and it wasn't able to be
Jane Stark:received in that way. And then, yeah, it destroys relationships,
Jane Stark:or it causes more tension or something, so, so even having
Jane Stark:the courage to do it, and not fully knowing how the other
Jane Stark:person's gonna respond. And also having that trust or faith
Jane Stark:perhaps that they will be able to hold space for it. And look
Jane Stark:at how beautiful that is, and what you guys have shared for
Jane Stark:you guys, how that turned out. Like, and, you know, maybe
Jane Stark:there's something to unpack there in terms of you know,
Jane Stark:Catherine, how you were able to be in that space, or, you know,
Jane Stark:was there work or healing that had been done, because, you
Jane Stark:know, again, so much of it depends on where the other
Jane Stark:person is at. With that, but you know, I think Jen and I've had
Jane Stark:those experiences to where we've been able to, again, it's that
Jane Stark:just being able to be so vulnerable with another person.
Jane Stark:And it but when you can do that, when the other person can hold
Jane Stark:that space, it's like, to me, that's just where the depth is,
Jane Stark:and where you can go to that whole new level of relationship.
Melissa April:Meaning when you think about it, it's almost,
Melissa April:it's almost like these little gifts, actually, these little
Melissa April:conflicts that these little bumps in the road are little
Melissa April:gifts, because they're opportunities to reinforce,
Melissa April:strengthen and take your relationship to this whole other
Melissa April:level. And what a gift that is. And it's deeply healing on many,
Melissa April:many levels. Because, you know, culturally, for 1000s of years,
Melissa April:we have been pinned against each other, we don't trust each other
Melissa April:we don't. It's the which wound, it's the, you know, wounded,
Melissa April:feminine, just blaring, right, and we're scared to be who we
Melissa April:are, we're scared to share our truth. And I think as long as
Melissa April:we're tiptoeing around each other, and not saying the things
Melissa April:that we mean to say, and skirting around the things that
Melissa April:we want, and that we want in our relationships, and from the
Melissa April:people in our life. We're not going to, it's not going to get
Melissa April:anywhere, we're just gonna keep falling into, I think the traps
Melissa April:of comparison, judgment and gossip, and these are hurting
Melissa April:each other. Yeah.
Jane Stark:So, Catherine, I'm curious, how do you get to that
Jane Stark:place? How do you get to that space of being able to receive
Jane Stark:what Melissa shared?
Katherine Blanco:That's a really good question. And I feel
Katherine Blanco:that it requires a level of humility from Me, too. And self
Katherine Blanco:awareness. And that regardless of how, how I thought what I
Katherine Blanco:said would land. Like, my intentions, obviously, were not
Katherine Blanco:to hurt Melissa. But the impact did. So it was me taking
Katherine Blanco:responsibility for the impact of my words, rather than going into
Katherine Blanco:that space of put my intentions. Were good. Right. So I, yeah, I
Katherine Blanco:took responsibility for how, for what my for what I said, and how
Katherine Blanco:it impacted her. And it was also a wake up call for me to
Katherine Blanco:recognize how much Melissa meant to me. Because friendship, yeah.
Katherine Blanco:And the friendship and yeah, and it was pretty quick. It was a
Katherine Blanco:pretty quick turnaround to, to, for me in that moment to
Katherine Blanco:recognize the impact of my words and to Yeah, and I took the
Katherine Blanco:lesson right away and I'm, and I feel like the the process of
Katherine Blanco:getting to this place has been a long journey, because I have
Katherine Blanco:experienced friendships where I have spoken up about something
Katherine Blanco:that has hurt me and and it hasn't landed And it's, it's
Katherine Blanco:damaged the friendship to a point where it's not in a place
Katherine Blanco:of being able to be repaired and, or the the other way around
Katherine Blanco:where I've said something, and instead of them coming back and
Katherine Blanco:saying, hey, you've hurt me do the whole, like ghosting thing.
Katherine Blanco:You know, I'm speaking to a lot of my friendships and my 20s.
Katherine Blanco:And being pretty dysfunctional with with women. Yeah.
Jen Lang:That's suffering in silence. Peace is really big, I
Jen Lang:think for, for women and like, and for men, as well. But I
Jen Lang:think more so for women, because we are not modeled how to
Jen Lang:express our needs effectively, to have vulnerable conversations
Jen Lang:that are grounded in solid, foundational experience rather,
Jen Lang:like, you know how highly emotional responses can pull you
Jen Lang:on the other person into another highly emotional response. And
Jen Lang:then it just compounds and builds and spirals up, and then
Jen Lang:all of a sudden, it becomes, you know, girl fight. And it's, yes,
Jen Lang:we need to have those experiences so that we kind of
Jen Lang:know what we don't want. And then our response to that might
Jen Lang:just be Well, I'm not going to say anything, because I don't
Jen Lang:want to have that experience again, rather than being able to
Jen Lang:talk about the experience or, or work through it with a trusted
Jen Lang:person, professional or otherwise, or coach. And
Jen Lang:solidify those communication skills in a way that allow you
Jen Lang:to be strong enough and present enough to hear the other person
Jen Lang:but not take it on personally. Yeah. That's so powerful. So
Jen Lang:then how would that you talked about that in your both of your
Jen Lang:examples? I'm thinking for our listeners, who maybe don't
Jen Lang:necessarily have a coaching background, like all four of us
Jen Lang:do? How might that look? If you haven't had a coaching
Jen Lang:background? It might. I know that for me, before I got into
Jen Lang:my business world and my coaching space for me that would
Jen Lang:often show up as resentment or feeling resentful, or bitter, or
Jen Lang:being angry, but not being able to express that or tell the
Jen Lang:other person or taking it out, I would take out physical
Jen Lang:activity, but even then, that's still kernel still lives inside.
Jen Lang:How How does that show up? You think Bridgette you see in other
Jen Lang:people or other clients?
Katherine Blanco:Well, I could have, I could have easily, like,
Katherine Blanco:from my perspective, in this situation, I could have easily
Katherine Blanco:gotten defensive and went into that place of not taking
Katherine Blanco:responsibility and, and blamed Melissa for being too sensitive,
Katherine Blanco:or Oh, I didn't mean it that way. Don't you know who I am?
Katherine Blanco:We've been friends for years. Like I've been working with you
Katherine Blanco:for a year. Of course, that was a joke. Like, you know, like, I
Katherine Blanco:could have easily gone into that rather than honoring her
Katherine Blanco:feelings and honoring that I made a mistake. And so I think
Katherine Blanco:that would have been sort of a an old an old default reaction,
Katherine Blanco:rather than a more centered response that I ended up moving
Katherine Blanco:into.
Jane Stark:And I think from like, like a wounded response,
Jane Stark:right, but not wounded. I mean, we all I think culturally, grow
Jane Stark:up with some of that wounding. I mean, think about, like, as Jen
Jane Stark:was talking about, when you were talking about girl fights, the
Jane Stark:word cat fight came to mind, right? Remember, you don't hear
Jane Stark:that term as much anymore. But I certainly remember like that
Jane Stark:term being thrown around a lot when I was growing up. Or, you
Jane Stark:know, when I was in the corporate world, this kind of
Jane Stark:like, you got to be a bitch to get to the top. Like, we're
Jane Stark:totally conditioned. Go, Melissa, she's just had
Melissa April:when you said cat fight, and how that was like,
Melissa April:you know, a word we throw around a lot. I'm like, and it's also
Melissa April:something that used to be a turn on for the guys like, yes, like
Melissa April:to see the girls having a cat fight. So, so whatever
Jen Lang:becomes sexualized, somebody can sexualized
Melissa April:and so like, I'm okay. We do certain things as
Melissa April:women when we're, you know, we grew up in a patriarchal
Melissa April:society. And we fall into these ways of sexualizing ourself in
Melissa April:order to get ahead or like I need to get in the fight or I
Melissa April:need to do this I need to do that so that I can be accepted.
Melissa April:I don't know be part of this barbaric society.
Jane Stark:I know like, survive and survive. Yeah,
Melissa April:yeah, sorry. That was just like a thing that
Melissa April:popped up.
Jane Stark:Yeah, right. We all see this right. We all like
Jane Stark:we're brought up with Hi, Cora, I agree with with these kinds of
Jane Stark:beliefs, so. And again, I'm generalizing here, we're not all
Jane Stark:Yes, definitely, from a cultural perspective, often we are. So
Jane Stark:it's a lot of like, I know, for myself, it's been a lot of my
Jane Stark:own deconditioning work and a lot of Oh, yeah, really
Jane Stark:examining what that looks like. And I love what you shared,
Jane Stark:Katherine around the personal responsibility side, because Jen
Jane Stark:and I talk about that a lot. In the work we do, and that's been
Jane Stark:a huge part of my journey. And, you know, it's sort of one of
Jane Stark:our slogans that we've come up with is this own your shit?
Jane Stark:idea, right. And so starting to kind of own that, and the power,
Jane Stark:the power that it gives both people, right, like, when you
Jane Stark:own it, it, it gives you your power back, but it also gives in
Jane Stark:that situation would give Melissa her power, and then
Jane Stark:we're able to equally move forward. On you have a level
Jane Stark:playing field.
Melissa April:Yeah, and you have two people in their power.
Melissa April:That's only a recipe for something good, you know,
Melissa April:whether that's your relationship goes to a new level of trust,
Melissa April:and you know, that just that next level, or your two people
Melissa April:in your power, realizing maybe this is not the relationship,
Melissa April:maybe this is maybe it's time, right, but you can do it in a
Melissa April:peaceful, loving way. And I think that's that we, especially
Melissa April:as women are conditioned to be nice and work it out. And, you
Melissa April:know, at all costs, just, you know, keep the peace, the peace,
Melissa April:the peace and pain and relationships, like you would
Melissa April:never encourage a girlfriend to stay in an abusive relationship
Melissa April:or to stay in a relationship where she wasn't getting where
Melissa April:she wasn't fulfilled. Right. And so why would we expect that of
Melissa April:each other in our personal relationships with other women?
Jane Stark:Yeah, absolutely. And that's, to with, you know,
Jane Stark:with us as parents to right, like, I know, Catherine, you
Jane Stark:have is your oldest, you have a couple of daughters, right?
Katherine Blanco:Yeah. As three daughters, my, my 17 year old
Katherine Blanco:is, yeah, is it daughter,
Jane Stark:so you must be interesting to see how, and to
Jane Stark:watch that, like, I have a almost 13 year old daughter. And
Jane Stark:so she's like, right in that prime, teenage friendships
Jane Stark:scenarios. And it's really interesting to she's starting to
Jane Stark:open up to me in a different way. Right, like, like, there's
Jane Stark:opening up when they're younger, and helping them navigate, just
Jane Stark:kind of hate this is how you operate in a social setting and
Jane Stark:conflict navigation, you know, as a 678 year old, and now, I'm
Jane Stark:seeing her move into these other dynamics, and a lot of Mean
Jane Stark:Girls stuff. And it's still very prevalent, and it's really
Jane Stark:interesting. And I'm, I never want to lose that opportunity to
Jane Stark:like, be there and help guide her through that. Because, yeah,
Jane Stark:what you were just saying, Melissa, is so true. And we have
Jane Stark:to be so aware to help change that paradigm. Threshold.
Katherine Blanco:Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100% And actually, it's so
Katherine Blanco:interesting. I have a very open relationship with my, my
Katherine Blanco:daughter and she has really enjoyed watching Melissa and I
Katherine Blanco:friendship blossom. From her perspective. Like, it's really
Katherine Blanco:sweet. She's way she's wise way beyond her years to be on.
Melissa April:Like, honestly, when she says that she's not
Melissa April:just coming from like, my daughter is. Her daughter's
Melissa April:like, I'm like, she's gonna be she's gonna have like a TED
Melissa April:Talk. She's gonna
Katherine Blanco:know like, she's, she's quite, she's quite
Katherine Blanco:remarkable. And, and she, she's been enjoying watching my
Katherine Blanco:friendship with Melissa grow because she has witnessed me
Katherine Blanco:being hurt from the friendships that I had when she was growing
Katherine Blanco:up. Like because I we kind of grew up together in a lot of
Katherine Blanco:ways having her at 21 and going through all those relationships
Katherine Blanco:in my 20s and then finding finding stronger relationships
Katherine Blanco:in my 30s and she actually went through a lot of turbulence in
Katherine Blanco:her grade seven year with, with friendships and girls and and
Katherine Blanco:that coming out then and she's in grade 11 Now, so it was a few
Katherine Blanco:years ago. But she has been watching this relationship
Katherine Blanco:unfold with Melissa and I enjoy She's like, it's just so great
Katherine Blanco:to see how happy you are, when you're with his friend and
Katherine Blanco:mentor, you come home and, and I even told her about this
Katherine Blanco:conflict that we had, and shared with her how we moved through it
Katherine Blanco:and was honest with her about how I made a mistake. And
Katherine Blanco:Melissa called me in. And so I think, for the listeners, like
Katherine Blanco:don't, if you are a parent listening to this, like, don't
Katherine Blanco:be afraid of bringing your kids in to your lessons, because
Katherine Blanco:they're, they're not just for you, they can be really powerful
Katherine Blanco:for them to hear to. And it can be a little like humbling again,
Katherine Blanco:to bring them in that you're still sort of figuring out life
Katherine Blanco:as a grown up. But it also helps them I believe, move through
Katherine Blanco:their stuff, because they're like, Oh, this is something like
Katherine Blanco:I can get some tools from my mom, even though she's just
Katherine Blanco:discovering this now, what if I discovered this now as a 17 year
Katherine Blanco:old rather than in my mid 30s? Late 30s. So
Jen Lang:super different.
Melissa April:That's interesting. I didn't even think
Melissa April:of my relationship, like or see my mom in her relationships with
Melissa April:other women. I feel like this is the first time I'm actually
Melissa April:thinking of it. But yeah, it's like so much. They're, they're
Melissa April:modeling. I mean, think of it like with the, the, your father
Melissa April:or whatever. But yeah, they're modeling
Jane Stark:modeling all of it, right?
Melissa April:I mean, this is how you're in relationships.
Melissa April:And, you know, it's and you grew up in, you see that you see, you
Melissa April:know, your parents or your your mom and her friends getting
Melissa April:together and what they're talking about. And, you know,
Melissa April:you see that kind of interaction. And, of course,
Melissa April:that's going to imprint, of course, that's going to be
Melissa April:informing how you then go out into the world and relate to
Melissa April:each other. And I think, as emotional beings as we are as
Melissa April:women, that is definitely something that I think you need
Melissa April:to be proactive and healing and examining and bringing a lot of
Melissa April:awareness to, in how you are in the world, how you relate to
Melissa April:other people, other women, how you relate to yourself. Because
Melissa April:there's a lot of undoing and a lot of Yeah, remembering who we
Melissa April:are, so that we can be who we are with each other in a really
Melissa April:in a in positive sisterhood.
Jane Stark:And being able to speak our truth, and in a kind
Jane Stark:way, right? Like we can, we can speak up and we can have our
Jane Stark:boundaries, but we can still be kind and loving about it. And
Jane Stark:being again, back to that personal responsibility and just
Jane Stark:being aware of how we're showing up and examining that within the
Jane Stark:relationships that we have.
Melissa April:Yeah. And you were asking, like, how, what how
Melissa April:do we see this sort of like, coming through in the in maybe
Melissa April:clients and stuff that we work with? And because I do see this
Melissa April:a lot. And I think we have a lot of I think expectations plays a
Melissa April:big role in it. Like we, we expect other people to receive
Melissa April:our truth, or and sometimes that expectation is I expect that
Melissa April:when I share my truth, that I will be abandoned. Like
Melissa April:sometimes these are the expectations and the
Melissa April:expectations and become the beliefs that we carry around in
Melissa April:the world. As opposed to being like really the only thing that
Melissa April:we can control, the only thing that we can expect is how we're
Melissa April:going to react. Yeah. And and so it does you know, it, you have
Melissa April:to want to be in that examination, you want to be part
Melissa April:of that like examination of yourself. Like you're you're
Melissa April:looking at how you are in the world? And how how do you desire
Melissa April:to how do you desire to be in relationships with other people?
Melissa April:Are the relationships that you have? Are they ones that are
Melissa April:deeply fulfilling and eautiful and life giving and expansive?
Melissa April:Or are they relationships that you had from 20 years ago, where
Melissa April:you're just keeping them because of honor, because you were
Melissa April:taught that you, your friends for life, friends for life,
Jen Lang:and you can have friends for life when you grow
Jen Lang:together and change together and have these opportunities to
Jen Lang:approach conflict in a different way. And so it's so interesting
Jen Lang:because there's so there's a friendship I've had since high
Jen Lang:school that has Abdun flowed and I was in her wedding. And after
Jen Lang:the wedding, I took a big pause because I realized that the
Jen Lang:friendship was not balanced. And it was only like, No, this is
Jen Lang:we're talking 20 years ago. took this pause, and I didn't see
Jen Lang:them that much. And then I just want to know, last fall was
Jen Lang:doing some energetic healing training. And it was so
Jen Lang:interesting, because the third weekend of the training, this
Jen Lang:person messaged me, and was like, Hey, how are you? I was
Jen Lang:like, Oh, this is interesting. And so I went with it. And I met
Jen Lang:with them, along with another friend, mutual friend from high
Jen Lang:school. And it was a really beautiful and fulfilling
Jen Lang:conversation. And where we could, we didn't obviously talk
Jen Lang:about it. But there were many ways that we can recognize that
Jen Lang:each other had changed over the past 20 years. And so we'd had
Jen Lang:this moment of like, massive distance, and then coming back
Jen Lang:together, where there was there wasn't the same awkwardness as
Jen Lang:there was 20 years ago. And that, yes, it was a symbol of
Jen Lang:growth, super powerful. And we haven't talked consciously about
Jen Lang:that yet. But for me, it was such a beautiful observation to
Jen Lang:go like, okay, so, yes, we've been friends a long time, yes,
Jen Lang:our friendship could just have remained separated. But then it
Jen Lang:also, it was kind of one of those maybe, maybe we each
Jen Lang:needed that break on that pause to grow on our own, so that we
Jen Lang:could rediscover that next level of friendship again.
Melissa April:Love that? Well, and it's, you know, I think with
Melissa April:long term relationships like that, the expectation is, that
Melissa April:person is always going to be that person that they were 20
Melissa April:years ago for me now. And that's just not, yeah, that's just not
Melissa April:realistic, because we do change. And sometimes your growth paths,
Melissa April:evolution paths are at different speeds at different rates in
Melissa April:different directions. And so I think Katherine and I were
Melissa April:talking about this in a recent episode, like, it's just like in
Melissa April:a, in a partnership with your, with your significant other,
Melissa April:it's like, you make the choice to grow together, you make the
Melissa April:choice to honor each other as you change and grow. And that
Melissa April:has to be like, that has to be, like, agreed upon, even if it's
Melissa April:not spoken. It's like, we understand that we're both going
Melissa April:to change and evolve. And we can honor that. And we can hold
Melissa April:space for that. And we still choose each other. Yeah. And
Melissa April:yet, we don't do that with our friendships all the time. And I
Melissa April:mean, how beautiful that is to be able to come back in union
Melissa April:with somebody and recognize, and what if we knew that sooner?
Melissa April:Like, what if we knew that, right? I mean, situations like
Melissa April:that, where even now I'm like, wow, this person that was such a
Melissa April:close friend, to me, it's not feeling the same way. And
Melissa April:there's been a lot of hurt feelings, but nothing has been
Melissa April:said, because we are not able to pinpoint what it is. Or even
Melissa April:like, give it energy. Because what if that means that we're
Melissa April:not friends anymore, then that's hurt, then that's grief. And
Melissa April:that's fear. And it's fear. But what if we could speak about it
Melissa April:and say, like, hey, what if? But can we just talk about this?
Melissa April:Yeah. And
Jane Stark:expectations we put on, on these relationships,
Jane Stark:right? And I think you, you really identified a really
Jane Stark:interesting point there, where we kind of have that dialogue
Jane Stark:around our more intimate relationships, like our partners
Jane Stark:for life, or a period of spouses houses. But we don't apply that
Jane Stark:same lens to friendship so much. It's our you just gave media
Jane Stark:with the awareness that like, Yeah, wow, where have I not had
Jane Stark:that? expectation? I mean, not so much now, but definitely,
Jane Stark:like, definitely, with friendships from, you know,
Jane Stark:growing up and my 20s and stuff where it's sort of had to look a
Jane Stark:certain way, and oh, my gosh, if it didn't work, then we weren't
Jane Stark:friends anymore. That was a big drama, or something like that,
Jane Stark:versus allowing, like you say, allowing for that ebb and flow
Jane Stark:to or that space where it's like, yeah, maybe we're on
Jane Stark:different paths right now. And that's okay. And we'll come back
Jane Stark:together. That feel like code? Yeah. Right.
Katherine Blanco:It's so funny, because it's circling back to my
Katherine Blanco:daughter, I just keep thinking about her because she actually
Katherine Blanco:has one of her best friends. They've been friends since her
Katherine Blanco:friend was three. And so my daughter was four. And they
Katherine Blanco:still talk to each other pretty much every single night and they
Katherine Blanco:have changed a lot. Like it's amazing. It's amazing. And they
Katherine Blanco:have changed a lot. But recently, there was something
Katherine Blanco:that happened that was a little bit of a conflict and I was
Katherine Blanco:like, You need to tell her you need to tell her because she
Katherine Blanco:didn't she wasn't speaking to her friend about it because she
Katherine Blanco:didn't want to ruffle the feathers and and oh my I think
Katherine Blanco:that you just need to get it off your chest and so that she did
Katherine Blanco:it. She kind of pushed For a little bit outside of her
Katherine Blanco:comfort zone, but also she's like, oh, yeah, that's like
Katherine Blanco:she's also recognizing like that. It's important. She
Katherine Blanco:actually listened to one of his episodes. Before she did it and
Katherine Blanco:of the Sisterhood of the Traveling bitches. And yeah. So
Katherine Blanco:she, she listened to that episode. And she did, she
Katherine Blanco:reached out and, and even though they had been speaking every
Katherine Blanco:night, she just hadn't said this one thing and, and it landed
Katherine Blanco:really easily on her friend's ears. It was one of those
Katherine Blanco:situations sort of like what, Melissa and I suppose to earlier
Katherine Blanco:like, so it's not that it means it's not that we need to do this
Katherine Blanco:in our 30s. No, we can, like our children can do this too, in
Katherine Blanco:their teens. Um, but I think it is a little bit more scared
Katherine Blanco:here. But there is that capacity to have that the relationship
Katherine Blanco:from a very young age
Melissa April:wasn't taught in schools. No,
Unknown:I Oh, no. We really?
Jane Stark:Yeah. I also wonder like the when you were sharing
Jane Stark:that it made me think about also the intention behind when we
Jane Stark:share these things. And when we speak up, right, like, I just
Jane Stark:got the I don't know, when you were talking about that with
Jane Stark:your daughter right away. I was like, oh, but like, her heart
Jane Stark:was so open. My intention is just like, I just need to get
Jane Stark:this off my chest. But it's not a big drama. It's like, I need
Jane Stark:this to be said, and let's move forward. And I think there's
Jane Stark:something in that. And you kind of spoke like that to Melissa,
Jane Stark:when you shared how you approach Catherine. Like,
Melissa April:this is like the deep longing that we have to be
Melissa April:seen and heard Yes. To be witness, it's just to be on the
Melissa April:stage and to be, you know, you know, it's not about that it's
Melissa April:about being able to be seen and heard for who we are with the
Melissa April:people that we love, yeah, to be accepted by them to be, even if
Melissa April:they don't agree with it, but they can still receive it like.
Melissa April:And I mean, this is the village, right? When we come back to
Melissa April:healthy village mentality, we're able to do that. But we live in
Melissa April:a very broken society where this isn't taught. And this isn't
Melissa April:actually the way that things go. Right. This isn't the way things
Melissa April:are supposed to go in this narrative. And so we got to come
Melissa April:back to the roots, we got to come back to the truth, we got
Melissa April:to come back to who we are.
Jen Lang:And saving. Yeah, saying what's on your heart with
Jen Lang:courage and grace. And just trusting that the way it will be
Jen Lang:received is, is the way it's meant to be received and will
Jen Lang:move you forward in one way or another, and the acceptance
Jen Lang:around how that will be moved you forward. And it might move
Jen Lang:you forward in a way that you didn't think you had
Jen Lang:expectations around. And then you're like, Oh, I actually did
Jen Lang:have it shows you those expectations, then it may move
Jen Lang:you forward in that beautiful way that we've all experienced
Jen Lang:that you and Melissa and Catherine just described so
Jen Lang:beautifully with your friendship. So yeah,
Jane Stark:I have one last question to take this in a
Jane Stark:little bit of a different direction before we wrap it up.
Jane Stark:But I'm curious. Your take on we're talking and unpacking this
Jane Stark:whole What does a healthy female friendship look like? Or
Jane Stark:relationship? How? And like, the questions sort of not totally
Jane Stark:phrase, but in my head, I'm like, Oh my gosh, imagine if we
Jane Stark:can all just start to seek out more of these relationships.
Jane Stark:Like as you guys were talking, I'm like, you know, find your
Jane Stark:people find the people that can support you and hear you and see
Jane Stark:you and witness you, as we've kind of talked about. And how
Jane Stark:can how that can change the world. I mean, that sounds very
Jane Stark:grandiose. But like, how I don't Ender's Game, maybe there's not
Jane Stark:a question just the statement. But like, I don't know, there's
Jane Stark:just something I'm like, Oh my gosh, like,
Melissa April:go, what come what comes to mind is almost
Melissa April:like if there's power in numbers. So I might be in my own
Melissa April:little world having this conversation in my head and
Melissa April:speaking my truth to people who can't receive it. Or I can find
Melissa April:the people who also want to have that kind of dynamic, even if
Melissa April:we're not quite sure how we do it, but we know that's what we
Melissa April:want. And then that that energy grows from there, right? You
Melissa April:know what I mean? It's like and more people see what what are
Melissa April:they doing over there they have such beautiful and that's what I
Melissa April:really look towards I look at the people who have really
Melissa April:strong sisterhood who support like supporting it gives me
Melissa April:goosebumps thinking of it but like really support each other
Melissa April:and, and hold space for each other and kind of come back to
Melissa April:these ancient ways of being with each other. And I want that. I
Melissa April:want that That's what I desire in my bones. That's what I want.
Melissa April:And so people like Katherine, people like my friend Justine,
Melissa April:you know, these women in my life now I'm like, they're setting
Melissa April:the there's, there's, this is a new bar, this is a new, this is
Melissa April:the new village. For me, this is where I want to be. This is
Melissa April:where I want to grow this or I want to be witness, this is
Melissa April:where I want to share my gifts. This is where I want to
Melissa April:influence I want to share an impact from this space because
Melissa April:these women make me feel my power.
Jen Lang:Oh, bam, that was great. Completely magic. Here's
Jen Lang:the magic. So if you're listening to this podcast, and
Jen Lang:you want to feel that way, spend more time with us. Yeah, yeah.
Jen Lang:Right. And I think we all secretly desire that that really
Jen Lang:comes down to that belonging, that belonging piece that is so
Jen Lang:fundamentally human, and is one of those, you know, primary
Jen Lang:primary drivers. It's like food, shelter, belonging, love, you
Jen Lang:know, and
Jane Stark:this community to right like community, this whole
Jane Stark:conversation, I keep being like, oh, my gosh, this is why like,
Jane Stark:women's circles are so powerful. Like, getting into that space.
Jane Stark:And like, you were sort of sharing like, from your, like,
Jane Stark:pulling kind of some of that ancient roots stuff forward. But
Jane Stark:finding it can be through, maybe it starts by finding a circle
Jane Stark:finding, like butter that looks like a retreat, or, you know, a
Jane Stark:yoga class or, you know, multiple different ways that
Jane Stark:just this being in circle and finding those people and then
Jane Stark:also, like you say, comes in friendship and really cascade.
Melissa April:Yeah, well, and I see a lot, too, like people
Melissa April:just, of course, because we're resistant to change, our little
Melissa April:lizard brains want to stay exactly where we're put, and
Melissa April:never move. But it's like, I think I see so often people
Melissa April:wanting to fit into what's already there, instead of
Melissa April:breaking out of the mold and finding what's right for them.
Melissa April:And I guess that's one thing that I would want to say is,
Melissa April:like, give yourself permission to break the mold a little bit.
Melissa April:That doesn't mean you're leaving behind anybody, your family,
Melissa April:still your family, you know, there's still an opportunity to
Melissa April:find new ways of relating with the people in your life. But
Melissa April:there's also this other realm where the people that are really
Melissa April:going to like your those soul people, those soul connections,
Melissa April:they're also there waiting to embrace you and crack you wide
Melissa April:open, essentially.
Katherine Blanco:Beautiful, I just like to add, like being
Katherine Blanco:willing to show up and doing a relationship or wants to talk
Katherine Blanco:and be able to show up as yourself and
Melissa April:perfect example, Yeah, Mom, just like this.
Melissa April:Is now the time that we're gonna
Katherine Blanco:be rolling a shirt I'm wearing. So I think
Katherine Blanco:also, the big piece here is showing up in our relationships
Katherine Blanco:fully as who we are, so that we can also be seen as who we are,
Katherine Blanco:take off that mask, be who you are in your relationships so
Katherine Blanco:that you can find out who your tribe is a lot faster if you're
Katherine Blanco:actually showing up as yourself. That's the benefit
Melissa April:of actually saying the things that you mean
Melissa April:to say, and bringing things up as things arise instead of
Melissa April:letting them fester. Because you're going to figure out
Melissa April:sooner sooner rather than later those the people who can hold
Melissa April:that energy for you.
Katherine Blanco:Yes, and it's scary. I'm not saying that this
Katherine Blanco:is easy. So if you're listening to this, like, Oh, okay. Yeah.
Katherine Blanco:Especially if we're so conditioned to have the like to,
Katherine Blanco:to be in friendships that are very surface level. And if
Katherine Blanco:that's not what you're seeking, then you're going to have to be
Katherine Blanco:willing to go deep first sometimes and see where it
Katherine Blanco:lands. See what happens. And it's not always easy, and it can
Katherine Blanco:you can get hurt. But it can also have the opposite effect
Katherine Blanco:and grow something really really special.
Jane Stark:Yeah, well and your your because we know in pretty
Jane Stark:much every area of this work, right? You're only going to get
Jane Stark:as far as you're willing to go. And we have to be willing to go
Jane Stark:deep get that depth of relationship
Melissa April:that says the river. What are we willing to
Melissa April:let die so that we can make that beautiful soil from which to
Melissa April:plant these new seeds? Right. So
Jen Lang:amazing.
Jane Stark:This is a good note to wrap on that thank you guys
Jane Stark:so much for sharing your wisdom. And
Melissa April:your honor we have, we should have a quad pod.
Jane Stark:I know I was. I'm like, I like to host like a
Jane Stark:retreat like the four of us and like, create that space. Wide
Jane Stark:pod. I like
Melissa April:the quad partner treat it like a podcast, but in
Melissa April:real life. Lots of different hosts. We know we love. We've
Melissa April:loved these conversations with you. Both are just such
Melissa April:wonderful, inspiring, expensive peoples. So thank you so much
Melissa April:for inviting us on the show.
Unknown:Yeah, thank you, I think changes.
Jane Stark:Yeah. So where can where can our guests find you
Jane Stark:guys?
Jen Lang:And what you offering it out?
Melissa April:Oh, yeah. So at the only codes is our podcast
Melissa April:page. You can also find me at the Melissa APR. And Catherine's
Melissa April:at the Catherine Blanco birth. Yeah, there's going to be
Jen Lang:in the show notes. I'll put those links in the show
Jen Lang:notes.
Melissa April:And we are Katherine and I are going to be
Melissa April:launching a red tent ceremonial program all around honoring our
Melissa April:sacred menstruation and it's going to be pretty powerful. We
Melissa April:do a a red tent series on the podcast as well. So if you're
Melissa April:interested in learning more about the the mysteries of the
Melissa April:of the deep, dark, feminine and sacred menstruation you can
Melissa April:check those out. And if you're interested in joining the red
Melissa April:tent ceremonial program, we can find us on Instagram and send us
Melissa April:a DM
Jen Lang:sounds awesome. Thank you
Jane Stark:super juicy. exactly about that. Yeah, well.
Jen Lang:Alright guys happy note. Let's wrap it up. Thank
Jen Lang:you so much, Melissa and Catherine for being an Cora
Jen Lang:making a guest appearance on this beautiful fun podcast
Jen Lang:episode. I'm sure we will have you back as guests again in the
Jen Lang:future. I'm sure there'll be many more conversations for all
Jen Lang:four of us to have. And I don't know how much more to add. So
Jen Lang:thank you all feel or unmute yourself and say thanks, Jamie.
Jen Lang:Anything else?
Unknown:Ladies, thank you.
Jen Lang:Bye. Thanks for joining us for these conscious
Jen Lang:combos. If you're ready to dive deeper, head on over to Dr. Jenn
Jen Lang:and jane.com to continue the conversation.
Jane Stark:If you'd love this episode, please take a moment to
Jane Stark:share it with your friends or your network and leave us a
Jane Stark:review by going to Apple podcasts. Find us on Instagram
Jane Stark:at we are Jen and Jane and let us know what you enjoy and what
Jane Stark:you would like to see more of. We'd love to hear from you.
