Talking Near-Death Experiences

This is no halos here hosted by Jen Lang and Jane Stark, the place to inspire a change in your consciousness to elevate the world. We're to heart centered business owners nourishing our inner rebels while growing our respective businesses.

No halos here is the result of bringing together an opera singer turned spiritual mentor and a marketing professional turned well being coached to meditate daily. Together, we unite physical, mental, emotional and spiritual energies into a powerful presence to lead, heal and inspire. We love exploring the shadowed edges of life, the universe and beyond through honest and thought provoking conversations. Let's dive in. Hello, and welcome back to the no halos your podcast with Jen Lang and Jane Stark. Today we have a little bit of a different episode for you. It's actually an interview that I did. I'm Jane with Julie boy, a host of the wake up with gratitude podcast, Julie and I met last spring. And very quickly, we recognize that we had both experienced and near death experience or an n d e. And we had that in common. And so we started talking, as you do sharing our story of our different experiences and how it shaped who we are today where we've come to. And what we realized was that we wanted to share this a little bit more widely and publicly and start to talk a little more openly about near death experiences, spirituality, how these things have impacted our own lives. And so Julia invited me onto her podcast, and we did an interview and dove in. And so we're sharing that interview with you with our audience here today on our podcast. It feels a little vulnerable, but also a little healing to be able to start talking about this more publicly and to share my experience and to share Julie's experience. And you know, in the hopes that you might pick up something, pick up a little nugget for things that you can apply into your life. So here we go. I hope you enjoy the interview.

Hello, friends. Welcome to the wake up with gratitude podcast. I'm your host, Julie boy. And today I'm welcoming my friend Jane Stark Hello, my friend. Hello. I'm so excited that you're here now, Jane is a leadership and well being coach. She's also the co host of the no halos here podcast with Jen Lang, you definitely want to be catching some of the episodes of the podcast, great conversations. She's a certified habit change coach. And also I just found out this morning as I was reading her bio again, just preparing is that she is a highly sensitive empath and a mom of two girls who share the same traits. I am also a highly sensitive empath, and have a daughter who shares the same traits. So Jane and I have a lot in common and today is going to be a different type of podcast. So turns out that Jane and I share a very special and unique experience as we both experienced a near death experience. And what we're going to do today as we go through this, as opposed to it being an interview, we're going to have more of a conversation and each of us is going to share our story based on our own personal experiences of what we've been through. And I know you're Jane, how are you feeling about sharing this on a podcast? Because this is this is kind of a first for me to

Yeah, this is a first for both of us. But you know what? I'm feeling really good. It's actually the 12 year anniversary of my near death experience today as well. So that's, that was interesting when this date was the date that worked for both of us. I thought okay, here we go. So But no, I'm feeling good,

kid. Me too. And just just to give a little bit of context for those that are like what is the near death experience, I'm going to share a little quote from an article that I read in Scientific American and I can I can post the link for those who want to read the whole article, but I just just to be clear of what we're talking about. So nd that's the short form for a near death experience, are not fancying fights of the imagination. They share broad commonalities becoming pain free seeing a bright light at the end of the tunnel and other visual phenomena, detaching from one's body and floating above it or even flying off into space out of body experiences. They might include meeting loved ones living or dead or spiritual beings, such as angels, or a distorted sense of time and space. Now the reason I share this is because our experiences are very different. I know both of us are sometimes like, dude, we experienced this like what actually happened and one of the reasons I guess we wanted to do this is because No, I think for me when someone else recognized it for me, it helped me feel better about what I experienced. So tell me a little bit about because you didn't know that you even had a near death experience right when it happened. So you can go ahead and start with your story, I think Go ahead.

Sure. So the Coles notes of my story is that when I had my first daughter, I had a postpartum hemorrhage. And what I didn't realize at the time, but when I hemorrhaged I had this really profound experience, where I very vividly remember being above the hospital room above the hospital bed looking down on myself. And it wasn't even just that I was looking down on myself, the thing that really stuck with me is there was like blue sky and clouds, and I was in the clouds. And it was the part in that quote, about the time I don't know the length of time, it was very much like, I don't know how much time I was sort of up in that space, or in and out of my body, it was all a bit of a blur, but it was very clear that that had happened. Without going into all the details of my story, though. Nobody really, I came back into body I came back and it was it was it felt very quick in the real world. And so it was just kind of like, okay, her vitals are okay, she's here, like I was present, they, you know, triage and we got things under control. And then it was just really more about the critical care part, right? Like, okay, like I say, her vitals are there and whatnot. And we kind of moved on. And so nobody actually talked to me about what had happened other than he lost a lot of blood, but you're here and, you know, you're okay type thing. And, I mean, I had just had a baby, I just gone through all that. And like, eventually I get home, and I've got a newborn. And so I didn't even really stop and have the time, I don't think to process what had happened. But then carry on seven years. It was seven years later, that I met a psychologist who my story had come up. And he looked at me and he was the one when I said like, it was like I was floating above the, like, above the hospital bed. And he was like, Well, you know, that's an MD, right? And I hadn't even I didn't even know what nd meant at that point at that time. And I was like, what's that? Did he, you know, continue to explain it to me. And as soon as he explained it to me, I had a really visceral reaction. Like, I just started bawling. My body just reacted. And it was just everything fell into place at that moment. And I was like, Ah, so yeah, for me, it was it's been a, it's a now as I just shared in 12 years, 12 years to the day today. So that was five years ago, of you know, processing that. And that's been a really interesting sort of second piece of my journey of like, now working through the emotions and the pieces of processing, you know, understanding what happened to me, the first seven years, were, you know, a lot of confusion and just a lot of it was expressing itself and other the trauma was a con. Yeah, and other ways trauma.

Yeah, be okay. So I do want to ask a couple more questions about, that's okay. So there's obviously like a lot of trauma. So you were in late stage of labor. When this happened, and I just just explain what the postpartum hemorrhage is like, you've already had the baby.

So yeah, so when I, when I delivered her, right, like right after she was delivered, they went to put her on my chest as typically you would with a newborn, and the umbilical cord snapped. And so I don't know why To this day, nobody's ever been able to tell me why an umbilical cord would just snap like that. But hence it snapped. So I started bleeding out. Luckily, there was extra nurses in the room actually. And so then she was fine. Like they were able to grab her get her to the baby station, clamp her and whatnot, but I was not as okay.

Yeah, that sounds frightening. I got kind of chills when you told your story because obviously that was frightening and must have been frightening for those around you. That's something that's interesting is like when we think about these situations, like we're the ones that experienced it, but others around it us when also through the trauma. Your husband

was in my room within the room. Yeah. So yeah, there's trauma there. I had a midwife so she's she's who delivered the baby now i was i did deliver in the hospital. Thank goodness. Because I would, you know, again, sense all of this and settle down and having a few more conversations with her pretty sure she was quite traumatized, even though this is something she deals with and and sees. But yeah, definitely, like you say, it is traumatizing for the others as well. Now,

how did you when you were kind of above your body and you said you're kind of in the closet? It was blue? Do you remember like, Did you have any feelings or any emotions that was attached to it? Or was it just No, it

was really calm. Right? I think that's one of the things yeah, no, I remember It feeling like there was no emotion, there was no panic. It was. And I actually remember they had to move me from where I delivered to the bed. And it was when I stood up, like I was bleeding out. And when I stood up, I just passed. Like I just fainted, right. And so all I remember is falling, and then eventually waking up on the bed. And between that time was this just, I think, yeah, being above, out of my body and above and floating, like, it felt like kind of floating and it felt calm. There was no panic and anxiety, even looking down, like kind of having these vague recollections of what was happening. And you could kind of see the chaos in the room. But I couldn't feel it. So I'm curious, did you tell your husband about this, too? Good question. I'm pretty sure I did. I would have. But I don't again, I don't think like he didn't recognize and probably, No, he didn't. And I mean, we have no, I mean, we've had lots of conversations, especially in the last five years about it. But you know, he just didn't he didn't recognize it. And he probably was traumatized himself. Yeah, right. From the whole thing. So Exactly. You know, it just kind of, yeah, but it's interesting. You asked that because I know that you guys, I don't have a specific memory of telling, like I'm having a conversation with him right after. I'm not sure how many people actually told in the early days afterwards about it. I kind of remember having this feeling of just suppressing it or being like, oh, that wasn't real, or I don't know what that was. So if I don't know, I'm not gonna tell other people or share.

Um, I think and when I went through my experience, which was now I guess it would be seven years in November. I had read, I needed more Johnny's book about

that on my desk, right.

Yeah, so I read her book. So maybe that's why but it was interesting for me. And one of my really good friends labeled it as an MD like, again, a few years later, so I hadn't realized them. Same thing. I didn't realize right away that the time what it was I but I didn't. I didn't think it was weird. So I think while so it's interesting. So I'll share my story, because it's what's interesting. Yeah, we'll get into so we can talk about some of the similarities and differences. So what's interesting is that mine happened after a miscarriage, which led to a DNS fee, which is a surgery they do when they miscarriages incomplete. So it's a very quick surgery. And I went home after and ended up coming back to the hospital a couple times because I got very, very sick with a bacterial infection, called invasive Group A strep. And in order for me to heal, they had to put me into a medically induced coma. And when you're in a medically induced coma, what I found out later is you're not actually like unconscious, like you're in varying levels of consciousness, and they like bring you in and out of consciousness. But like, I don't remember, like literally anything. And except for this one, like I have these really strong memories, that I think we're kind of towards the end of my so I was asleep for a week, I guess we say it was like asleep for a week or in this like, transient consciousness state for about a week. And then towards the end. I don't know if I'd been woken up or not like this is the thing is, I don't remember time is weird. When you're in a nice to you time doesn't like flow like normally in a nice to you because it's like 12 hour shifts. And I was like, I felt like it was always the night I didn't know how many weeks had gone by or anything. But, um, so I remember that I, I heard a voice in my head. And I knew that the voice was Jesus's voice. I just knew and at the time, I was going to church on a regular basis, like the Jesus and you know, Catholicism was a really big part of my life. It no longer today, but at the time it was so I felt really close to me like, so that voice was recognizable to me. And I remember him saying that he'd heard all the prayers from my friends and family. And that I would be home in two days. And I was like, okay, so I heard that. And then at another moment in time, again, don't know how much time passed or whatever. But he like came to me again, in this space of wherever. So I had a physical I had a body there. And he picked me up and it was I was I was we were like, We were In a market, and he picked me up in his arms, and he was wearing like, you know, white total white robes and everything and carried me in his arms. And then we He brought me in front of this building, which later I saw a picture of it. And it was like this Healing Center that I knew about. But at the time again, I didn't but in the in the, yeah, it was like I was in front of this building that exactly looked like this Healing Center that I knew about. And he just dropped me in his arms, and just said, like, we will be completely healed, like, I love you, you are completely healed and just rocked me in his arms. And then the last part of this, like, again, working memory and like I don't know, where again, don't know what stage of consciousness I was in the last part, which I hadn't even thought about when I until I read united talks about this, like you're leaving your body. So I left my body and went to Mexico.

Oh, right.

So right. I don't know how I ended up but I ended up in Mexico and I was on the beach. And my friends were there like these friends that I know through my work and they were there with their family. And I was like, lying on this was there like Jane I was there. I like I could feel the winds. I could feel the sun like I was on this the I can still in my head see exactly what the beach look like. And I could see my friends there. Like just as one family.

Yeah, the friends like they were the friends like, you know, sometimes you have dreams. And you think like, oh, like this friend was there but you're like, but I was it that actual person? Do you know what I mean? It literally what like, Did you really?

I knew exactly. Yeah, it was exactly. Okay, his face his wife, and like, not like a super close friend at all, like, just but it was the they were there for whatever reason. And I remember being on the beach. And then I remember coming back to my body. And then I remembered like, trying to get back there. Like I had this feeling of like, trying to go back there because it felt so good to be there. And then I guess I came back to consciousness. And I told the nurse about like, Jesus has visited me and all these things. And she's like, that's nice. She's like, Uh huh. And she listened to me, but like, totally didn't write like didn't. So I just thought I was crazy. And it was the drugs,

which is a really common story. Yeah. From what I've read since.

See, I didn't even realize that like you. It took someone later saying no, that was a near death experience.

I was gonna ask you that. So you didn't again, right away? You didn't have that validation or no, right away. It took some time before you figure it out.

Yeah, I knew it was real. Like that. Right? Yeah, I knew it happened. It was real. But I didn't have the understanding of what it could be. I like I said, I just thought it was a drug side effect, maybe. But

I and so how did how did you fight figure out or like, come to the place of I mean, you knowing it was real. But what was the piece that helped you sort of that validation? Or like you say, kind of realize that? Oh, no, it wasn't just a drug side effect?

Well, it was definitely when my friend said like, No, you like she said to me, that was the near death experience. And then I started like, reading and understanding like those kinds of things can happen, because I thought I thought your experience was a near death experience. And that was the only kind of thing that could happen. So I didn't acknowledge that mine was something like that. But I was definitely not in this on like, I wasn't on this plane. I don't know about you, but like, this is seven years ago for me and I as soon as I tell you the story. I The pictures are like, vivid. I know exactly what I'm talking about. Do you feel the same? Yep. Totally.

Yeah, it's I was just sharing with you before we hopped on here that the past few weeks, I actually started to question a little bit, I think probably because I knew we were going to do this recording. And I found myself like, maybe the memories a little bit fading. Maybe like, it didn't really happen. Maybe it's my imagination. But as soon as you started asking me questions, like, it's so vivid in my brain again, like the whole experience is right there. So,

and I got chills when you spoke. Yeah, I had like full on chills when you were talking. Yeah,

that's no, it's real. I really, truly believe it's real. And same thing. I've now kind of gone down the path of trying to understand it a little bit more and have done some more reading. And I think I mentioned to you I read recently read a book called after by Dr. Bruce Grayson. And a lot of the accounts, it was interesting when I think it was right after I finished that book that you and I first connected and I was and your story was like, wow, there's a lot of stories he basically has studied. And he is he's a psychiatrist, and he's studied MD ease for the last 50 years. And his book shows a lot of basically just accounts of all of his patients in his research with people who've had them and yeah, 100% what you're sharing is is a big piece of it. How Has it impacted you? On a bigger like it's an you shared that you're you were raised in a Catholic? Yeah, we're a practicing Catholic believed in God. I think you've mentioned that you fence are not as close to that religion. Is that tied into this?

Well, what's I think what's interesting is that part of it was that we moved from Ontario where I was really involved in the church. And it was really like, I feel like I was involved in my church but less involved in like the Catholic Church, right? Because especially in our current climate, so we're recording this in July of 2021. You know, acknowledging that there were atrocities committed by the Catholic Church here in Canada that we are, we're working on reconciliation and understood better understanding, you know, our role here on land that you know, is unceded territory, right? We both live in British Columbia, which is unseeded territories. So be long before all this came about, I'd already kind of detached from the Catholic Church of itself, but I still believe in Jesus. So whether I practice openly religion, I still believe in that moment of like, for me that, like I know, it was him that visited me, I don't I don't care if you believe me or not, it doesn't matter to me. Because in my experience, that was real. And it literally so I couldn't I didn't mention this part. So I remember he told me, you'll be out of the hospital in two days. Hmm. So it was about two days later, I think was like two and a half days later, like literally, so after that, that I think the next day, they were like, you're too You're not sick enough anymore to be in the ICU. And the following day, I spent one last night in the step down Ward, and they sent me home. So after the healing experience, right, then I was like starting to be awake and conscious and back. And literally, within about 24 hours, they're like, you're not sick enough to be in the ICU anymore, we need to put you in the other ward. And then I went home. So I knew that what he had told me was true. And then I just like kept focusing, because I remembered exactly what it said. And I was like, focusing on what I needed to do to get out of the hospital, which was I need to be able to walk on my own or with a walker and use a toilet by myself which these things sound really obvious. But when you've been in a coma for a week, your body doesn't really work the same when you wake up. And so it was a challenge. This is again, why question what had happened? Right, right, because my physical body wasn't working properly, right? I couldn't like, I couldn't hold like a cup of water. Like I couldn't bring a cup of water to my lips. Because I couldn't lift my arms. I can pull the table to me, so I just can't. I thought well, maybe that? Yeah, like, I don't know how that could have been happening because my physical body isn't working. So why would my mind

right, do that? Right.

Yeah. So can we go back just for a sec. So because to your the the retreat that you went to where you realize what had happened? So can you tell us a little bit about that experience about the retreat?

Yeah. So like I say, this is about five years ago, I was I had hired a business coach. And she was she's a very, right, yeah, business coach. Yeah, yeah. Mandy totally goes hand in hand for sure. Um, but it does. She. She was very just such an amazing, amazing woman. And she took us down to San Diego. On a retreat as part of our It was a group like a small group program. So we went down to San Diego. And she's very, she just has this amazing network of all these people. So she was the one that knew the psychologists that I referred to. And he had been studying a form of well, he he'd studied under a number of Zen Japanese Zen masters. And he had I've got to recall now because I haven't he's got a book that I read. They can find it and add it later to the note find it and add it. It's called driven. Okay, I know that Yeah. The book is called driven and his name is Doug Brackett. Sorry, Nope, that's not his name. It's escaping me. We'll get it. We'll put it in the show notes. But anyway, so he Brockman that's why Doug Brockman. So anyways, so he has was running these single day retreats, meditation retreats, but the twist of the meditation meditation retreat was that he used long range shooting, right, like guns. Julie and I are both Canadian. I have to say we're Canadians. generally don't have guns around. Yeah, this was really out of like, out of my comfort zone out of our and actually the majority of all of us I think on this retreat, we're Canadian. Do you ever even held a gun before? So I had held a gun before? I'd held I've held a. A, oh my gosh, I don't have like a pistol. Thank you. Yeah. But like once at a, at a ranch type thing. So and I didn't like it, right. So but like, really, I've had like, no experience with guns. And I show up and we do this, she's like, She surprised us too. So we're on a retreat, and then we're doing like a one day retreat, within our retreat. Wow, it was a surprise, she didn't tell us when we went down there, what we were doing. And so Doug shows up the night before, we're to go out and do this, this experience in the hills of San Diego, with like, literally a sniper rifle. Like, and. And he's walking us through and he's like, you know, essentially what he's studied is the ability for the brain, he calls like our your head, your monkey mind, and the body or elephant mind, or your elephant brain and your monkey brain. You can probably guess, kind of the monkey brain idea. The elephant being that, like, it's the old part of ourselves is that intuition that gut that knowing. And that really, when we get those two things lined up as one, then we're into consciousness, and everything just comes into place. And so.

So he created this process where you meditate, and then you target shoot. And so he, so that night, he came over, he brought the rifle because he's like, Okay, I have to introduce people into what we're doing what we're going to be doing tomorrow. And it was not not loaded or anything, he just set it up in the living room, to give people an idea, because it's not like, it's not like going to a range and just target shooting, I don't from what I understand. I haven't done that. But from what I understand, it's like, he has a very specific process, a very specific method of meditation. And then you go and you target shoot, as a way of practicing this like centered mind and body. And so he had us What do a mock kind of walkthrough of everything that night. And I don't know why I still really don't understand why this is what triggered me. But when I went and did the like just the mock practice and got down and like he set me up at the rifle and, you know, walk me through it, how to, like how to pretend to shoot it, I my whole body just started trembling. Like afterwards, I just got this again, really visceral response. And my body just went into, like total shock almost. And he picked up on it. He's like, what's going on? And I and it triggered something. And right away. It's like, I don't know. But I'm like, the only other time that I recall this happening to me was when I had gone through the postpartum hemorrhage. And I'd come back and when I sort of had come to and everything had settled down, my body was in shock. And I was just like, shaking, right? I couldn't like uncontrollably. And I was like, This is what it reminds me of. And so as I'm recalling a story to him, that's when he looked at me and was like, so you know, that was an ND you had. And it just kind of went from there. And then the next day, we go out and we do so we go out to the hills of San Diego. And we did a full day of meditation and target shooting. And it was him and a another business, another partner that the two of them facilitated this. And it was it was a life changing experience for me. And he even looked at me and he said, He's actually at all of us. And he was like, so this experience is like a year's worth of therapy in a day. Like it and he uses it for trauma, like to heal to help heal trauma, this this methodology that he's found. So he works with a lot of ex military. And, you know, people that have had PTSD and a lot of people who've had really, really severe trauma. And this process again, I can't do it justice and explaining how it works. But I can say that it works. And so yeah, so we spent the day we, you know, like four of us that there was I think five or six of us in total. And we would we had meditation cushions and we would sit and we would do this form of meditation that he coached us on. And then you would do a walking meditation over to the gun. And you would get down like literally like crosshairs and everything and you'd be looking at your target. And he would the headphones, the ear protection. We had had a mic in it so he can talk to us. And he would coach us through but it was so fascinating because he could look at the body like he would look at your body and he could just tell by looking at your back where you're holding tension. Or if you're not breathing exactly the way you need to to get into that space. And no joke. When you get it you get it and you would hit the target every time and he said that to me. He's like, like by the end of the day. I was hitting steel targets 800 yards away. Like that sounds really, really hard. That's like something like, Don't quote me on this, but like over a kilometer, it's like two football fields. Yeah, that's really far. It's, it's, it's Yeah. People who understand that, like, I guess don't quote me on there. No, it sounds super far. Yeah, super

far. And it was wild. And sure enough, like, it's every time if I missed, it was like, yep, nope, I could totally tell him like, No, I was in my head, like, I've moved out of my body and into my head and thought about pulling the trigger, the minute I would actually be able to achieve that state of oneness that he would coach us through, hit every time. But, and Morse and whatever the, again, the process of that was, though, the trauma that it was releasing. So it was an emotional day, not just for me, everybody else. Also, you know, he was able to look into a new kind of like, okay, stuff just get, like, it's definitely a process of you got to be prepared to be vulnerable, but the stuff like that I released that day, just was fascinating and life changing. And yeah, and ever since then, that was, that was my experience of sort of getting that validation. And, and being part of it, I think, was the validation and the being seen and being, you know, having the kind of like you say, somebody actually acknowledging or saying, hey, do you know like, I don't think this is in your head? I think that's a really big piece.

Yeah, and I think what, you know, what's clear is that an N d does come from trauma. And so if we never a first are able to acknowledge that it happened, and be then treat and work through the trauma, whatever way you're doing, like there's work to be done, right. We all have trauma, not everyone. Not everyone has an MD, but everyone has trauma. That's like a human is shared human experience. Yeah. And the important thing, I think that, you know, the key is like working through that trauma, whatever that method would be. I mean, that sounds like an amazing, incredible experience. I'm curious, we should look up to see if that's something that I mean, if someone's curious, we should find out if that's something we can share there. Yeah. I mean, I

haven't he was running those retreats for quite a while. I don't know. We'll have to look. Well, yeah, we'll take a look. Do some info and see if he's still running them. Because Yeah, it is. It is a fascinating experience. Again, no matter what you have going on, you do not have to have had an N D or a major trauma, because trauma is not about how big the actual incident is either. Right? It's about how you've processed it in your body, especially child. I'm curious to hear from your perspective, how you've worked through that trauma of

Yeah, the illness and everything. So this is really interesting. So for me, this is where actually, this feeling of waking up with gratitude literally came from this experience. Because I woke up like so many things that we take for granted every single day. Like being able to drink you just had a drink from your mug. There's no way I could have even lifted that mug to my lips. I couldn't see colors properly. It was over a week before I could even stand up in the shower I think was two weeks of I just sit on a stool in the shower because I couldn't another drink basically like after I came home from the hospital like I was just so I literally would go from the bed to the shower like to the toilet and back. I couldn't even toilet myself, right I had to have catheter and all these things right? And even food didn't taste right. So I still have that reverence for the mundane, which for me changed my life in the way that I see gratitude. And, you know, share something that's interesting. So we're recording this in a week from today are we from yesterday? I guess so. In seven days, I'm having surgery and I'm having a full hysterectomy. So all those parts that you know caused me a challenge I've been dealing with endometriosis since I was 15 I'm actually really looking forward to surgery it's like a welcome thing but one of the reasons I waited so long was a I did want to be closer to menopause because I'm getting everything removed. But I also needed time to have space to heal from the trauma of the last time I was in the hospital. Yeah, right. That was the last time is the hospital that so I needed the time to heal. So what's interesting though, is this past so and I also just moved houses which is a really good thing because I'm in a beautiful space to heal in a home that feels like home for the first time and I don't know how many years I feel like I'm home. But what I've been doing Jane this week is so this time of year sunrise is around 5:15am it's quite early. And so I don't normally get up every day for sunrise because I'm Like, that's part likely, right. But I've just been getting up anyway, and just going anyway, because this reverence for life. We just paused for a moment just to acknowledge that Jane's daughter needed her at that exact moment. So and I know how that is, you know, when our kids need us need to be there. So thank you. Of course, I'm just going back though, to finish what I was saying about this reference, knowing that I'm going to be healing from surgery, which is really critical. Like I'm really I'm doing all these things to, to make sure that I'm in a great state going into it. I actually have a hypnotherapy, special hypnotherapy that was designed just for me that I've been listening to twice a day to prepare. And so I've been going out to sunrise and just really feeling grateful. And really having the reverence that I can be at the sunrise, and whether you know, whether I can see it or not, doesn't matter, like just being at the beach, and gratitude that I still live close enough to the beaches, like that was a concern, we didn't know where we'd end up living like being this still being able to get to beach fairly quickly. And then, you know, it's like, because of this impending time where I won't be going to the beach for a little while. I'm like getting it all in now. And I think it goes back to that, like, reverence of gratitude for being able to do things that you just take for granted, right? So maybe the like, few months before, I didn't get up all the time, because it's super early. But now I'm like, No, I'm just gonna get up every day until it's time for surgery, and then just be okay with just like not seeing the sunrise for a few days, and just, you know, enjoying it from my backyard, or whatever it is. So that's kind of one of the biggest things that came out of this experience is that true reverence and the faith? Like, there's a lot of faith, right? Faith in my ability to heal and that I'm not by myself, right. I'm not. When we're talking about healing, like, it's not just me that's doing it. Right. There's, there's other Yeah, for sure. Definitely. Now, what would you say, you know, you've been you've had really two that you had your n d, but then you had the realization of the N d as two separate experiences, and how would you say that kind of shaped? You? You know, the Jain today?

Yeah, I mean. So, interestingly, I also was raised Catholic. I don't know if we connected on that as well. But so yes, I was raised Catholic as well. But I didn't. So I was I practice sort of through my childhood, and my youth didn't sort of stay connected to the religion as much as I got older. However, what really struck me after the end, and then I think, even again, more so once I started my healing process about five years ago, was this connection to something bigger, and I'd say now, it's more of a spirituality piece. I'm, you know, similar to yourself, I believe in Jesus, I believe in God. But I don't really subscribe to any sort of framework around that it's, for me, it's more about there is something bigger, some universal energy out there that I believe we're connected to. And that has really been a big piece of my healing over the past five years and finding that connection. I think the the other piece that for me, with that. I think I shared this the first time we chatted, but I don't remember. So I have since had a second hemorrhage. About four denied, okay, so four years ago, after I found out about my MD, I hemorrhaged again, just I had a procedure, like a very basic procedure. And for whatever reason, two weeks after started bleeding, and ended up back in the hospital. And it was, I have this very distinct memory of being in the hospital, in the ER, and the doctor kind of confirming like, yeah, we've got an internal bleed, and I got the shaking again. So I got a bit of a shock. But I had this really clear voice come through that was like, you're gonna be okay. It's not your time. Like, you're, you're, you're safe, you're protected. And it wasn't. It wasn't just a voice in my head. That's the thing now that I really believe and I'm like, No, this was like a bigger knowing. And that experience really reaffirmed it for me that there was something and I was okay, I you know, within 24 hours, I was everything was under control. And I was fine. I didn't you know, have any, you know, I I healed and I'm fine. Yeah, but so that is a big piece of my healing and my journey. And you mentioned hypnotherapy. It's, it's also sent me down the path of energetic work, energetic healing. I've worked with a hypnotherapist for the past two years. And it's been, again another sort of life changing piece and then I am now incorporating all of that into my own practice, as a coach and just my, in my lifestyle, I'm doing a bunch of training myself. So energetic and spiritual work has been a huge piece of my journey.

I think that, first of all, thank you for your courage to share your story. And for also, like, let's doing this together has made it easier for me to share my story. So I really appreciate that. Obviously, you can connect with either of us, of course, but some people will watch this video not know where to go or what to do. So we're going to put some video some resources with the video on the podcast for you in terms of where to connect, in terms of, you know, some of the resources that we've spoken about. And you know, if if you're a person who just had that realization that what I went through was an ND and this is the first time please follow up and get the support that you need. Because it is it is very much life changing. And you know, this, you become part of this community that whatever. And I mean, like Eugene, I kind of like I don't spend a lot of time in the indie community. But I feel like this kinship with it. And it does make me believe in like so much more that it's beyond what we have in our physical body, there's so much and I do a lot of energy work to I it's such a critical part of how I live and how I exist. So is there any What would you like to share with those that may be listening and may have like a realization?

Yeah, I mean, I think similar to yourself that, you know, I think the validation or the realization piece is really big. And if this does resonate with you, and it's all of a sudden, and you kind of see yourself in that seek out some support, because it's real. And it's, it's not something to be I've actually for me, I'm so I'm actually grateful now that I had the experience, it's it seems kind of weird to say, right, but it's one of these things that has really shifted and impacted my life in a more positive way. I would I would say and, you know, I think kind of like what you shared, that sometimes we don't really, we don't necessarily know or recognize and a lot of people don't so like when you were saying that you shared your experience with the nurse, and she kind of went Oh, that's nice, sweetie. Unfortunately, like from the little bit of research I've done and that sound, it's kind of common, and it's not that people are insensitive. It's, it's still not as talked about, or it's still not as public. And so a lot of people just don't understand, or it kind of feels scary, because it kind of is when you have this experience. I mean, I know. Same thing, right? For years, I kind of was like I don't really understand this makes no sense. So, you know, if you reach out I mean, reach out to Julian I if Yeah, if that's you don't know where to start feels like a safe space, and you don't know where to start? Because I think that's, that's one of the biggest keys is just having somebody who can, you can talk to it with? Yeah, I

think that's really key is like reach out to people that understand what's going through, like use the resources that will share, like connect with others who have been in a similar experience, as opposed to reaching out maybe to a family or friend that might not understand. It's interesting. I asked you the question about Did you tell your husband I'm like, I don't even again, I'm not even sure that I really went? I think I mentioned it to my husband, but he just didn't quite Yeah, I think he went through his own trauma. Like he like he went through his own trauma. His wife was in a coma for a week. And you know, I don't want to be stereotypical but I mean, I've done a lot of work around my trauma, and my husband just chose not to, and I've mentioned it a lot of times that like you went through a trauma, like a pretty big trauma in a very different way than I did. might be a good idea to not go through with someone's story here. Yeah. And but we can't make them do anything. And, you know, hopefully one day he'll make a decision to you know, he's like, it doesn't really I don't like but it kind of does. So that's also what got me a little bit. I was nervous about you know, saying yes to this, like vault like this is a voluntary surgery, although now it's considered semi urgent. So it's a little bit less of a voluntary thing. It's like, I don't want to be I definitely don't want didn't want to be in a situation where it became an urgent surgery. And this is like a better decision. So yeah, it's semi urgent, so we kind of had to go for it. And, and I really wanted to have this conversation before it felt like I like you being on your daughter's birthday. This needed to happen before I had a surgery. So that's so special. Well, Jane. Oh, thank you. Where do you where's the best place for people to find you.

So right now, I'd say the best places Instagram, and my Instagram handle is at underscore Jane Stark. He's, you can also find my website at James stark.ca.

That's super simple, easy places. Yeah, we love to keep it simple for people to easily find you. And for me, I'm all in the show notes. My links are all We will share as many resources as we can. And just thanks for everyone for listening to this kind of different kind of conversational podcast. I'd love to hear from you. If you enjoyed this conversational type podcast, I have a couple others that I that I've kind of got in mind too, that I'd like to do. So if this is a podcast that you enjoyed, as opposed to just the interview style, let me know and maybe I'll start doing a few more of these as the podcast grows. Thank you so much, Jean, for everything today for your courage for your heart for your authenticity, it just means so much. Thank you.

Thank you so much for the invite and the opportunity to do this. Yeah, very, I'm very honored to be able to share this experience with you do it together.

I agree. Thanks so much. Thanks for joining us for these conscious combos. If you're ready to dive deeper head on over to we are Jen and jane.com to continue the conversation.