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In this episode Jen + Jane discuss finding Fierce Serenity in everyday choices, living without regret for past decisions, and whether or not you can have forgiveness without self-compassion.
What does that look like for you?
Additional Resources/Reading:
● Dr. Kristin Neff - Self-Compassion Researcher - https://self-compassion.org/
Questions for further guidance:
● What do you think? Can you have forgiveness without self-compassion?
● Where are you already practicing Fierce Serenity in your life?
Disclaimer:
On the No Halos Here Podcast, we explore a wide range of topics broadly categorized as well-being. We encourage you to do your own research and make informed choices about your health and wellbeing. The information we provide is never a substitute for qualified advice specific to your individual needs. In listening, you take full responsibility for implementing any suggestions shared on the podcast and you agree to indemnify us completely against all consequences arising directly or indirectly from your choices.
About Jen and Jane
Jen Lang
Jen believes in the power and wisdom of women’s voices. She’s a guide for women who want to tune into and align their inner voice so their outer voice can shine; uniting physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual energies into a powerful voice ready to share your message.
Jane Stark
Passionate about energetic alignment and living life from a place of personal power, Jane is a heart-centered leader, certified health and life coach, and marketing strategist. She leads others to play bigger and feel lighter by helping them see and navigate their blocks and connect more deeply with themselves.
Continue the conversation:
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WeareJenandJane
Community: Get the Empowerment Playbook (and access our Community Calls) here: https://www.wearejenandjane.com/playbook
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This is no halos here hosted by Jen Lang and Jane
Jen Lang:Stark, the place to inspire a change in your consciousness to
Jen Lang:elevate the world. We're to heart centered business owners
Jen Lang:nourishing our inner rebels while growing our respective
Jen Lang:businesses.
Jane Stark:No halos here is the result of bringing together an
Jane Stark:opera singer turn spiritual mentor and a marketing
Jane Stark:professional turned well being coached to meditate daily.
Jane Stark:Together we unite physical, mental, emotional and spiritual
Jane Stark:energies into a powerful presence to lead, heal and
Jane Stark:inspire. We love exploring the shadowed edges of life, the
Jane Stark:universe and beyond through honest and thought provoking
Jane Stark:conversations. Let's dive in.
Jen Lang:Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of no
Jen Lang:halos here with Jen Lang and Jane Stark. Oh, what a topic we
Jen Lang:have today. Jane and I have just come off a big conversation of a
Jen Lang:different topic, a future podcast topic, but we're not
Jen Lang:going to talk about that today. Yeah, and then you'll probably
Jen Lang:hear in the background, my snoring dog Lola, she's decided
Jen Lang:to join us today. So we get a little too rowdy. We'll just
Jen Lang:pause for a minute and you can sink into the sweet tones.
Jane Stark:You turn that into a meditation? Maybe Maybe I could.
Jane Stark:Ring dog. The latest trending. Zen meditation
Jen Lang:I'm kind of curious you know, I have I have a timer
Jen Lang:account. Maybe I'll just record my dog's. Paw, the sounds of
Jen Lang:home probably would bring comfort to these pets maybe have
Jen Lang:passed and you know, might be kind of fun. Well, anyway, but
Jen Lang:we digress. Okay. Today, we are talking about aspects of
Jen Lang:forgiveness and self compassion, but probably not in the ways
Jen Lang:that you might think, initially.
Jane Stark:How did we How did we get here? How did we get to
Jane Stark:this topic? You? I think you're talking. Go ahead.
Jen Lang:Okay. I think we got here because we I was I proposed
Jen Lang:it as a topic because it was something we were talking about
Jen Lang:earlier this week, and forgiveness as an act of self
Jen Lang:love. And Jane wasn't really jiving with it. Oh, you know,
Jen Lang:she was like, I'm kind of, you know, I don't think it's, I
Jen Lang:don't she was kind of like, I feel the resistance. I'm like,
Jen Lang:no, no, there's
Jane Stark:something there. And I feel my own resistance. Yeah,
Jen Lang:I was like a dog with a bone. I'm like, No, we need to
Jen Lang:talk about this and unpack this in our way. And so
Jane Stark:then we come around, and that's what I get to where
Jane Stark:I'm like, Oh, this is the piece. And it wasn't so much resistance
Jane Stark:talking about it. To be honest. It was like landing flat for me.
Jane Stark:I was like, Yeah, I don't know. Okay, forgiveness, practice
Jane Stark:forgiveness, great. End of story. Like what's also really
Jen Lang:talked about a lot in this self help industry and the
Jen Lang:personal development industry and the CO opting and what I'm
Jen Lang:trying to say like the whole panel, a panel practice, which
Jen Lang:is supposedly an indigenous Hawaiian practice. So
Jen Lang:technically speaking, it's cultural appropriation, if you
Jen Lang:talk to indigenous Hawaiians, so it's like, we're not going to go
Jen Lang:there. We're not going into that today. Yeah. But we want to look
Jen Lang:at this forgiveness piece, and the self compassion piece, both
Jen Lang:both together, and separate entities. So I think you started
Jen Lang:with that with the doctor, who was Kristin Neff.
Jane Stark:So Dr. Kristin Neff is a researcher on self
Jane Stark:compassion. I'm not overly familiar with her work. But I
Jane Stark:have seen she's got a couple of TED Talks. And she's written
Jane Stark:books. And I believe, a number of years ago, I listened to her
Jane Stark:TED talks, and I've sort of very loosely followed her. I haven't
Jane Stark:read her books, although I would like to get her latest one
Jane Stark:because it ties in a bit to, to our theme. For the month of
Jane Stark:February and our program, our group program that we're going
Jane Stark:to launch, which is fear serenity, and her latest book is
Jane Stark:called the fear self compassion, I believe. And yes, it. And so
Jane Stark:it was interesting, because she talks about, oh, my goodness
Jane Stark:them and I have to remember what the other there's she talks
Jane Stark:about fear, self compassion, and
Jen Lang:well, she says, what is self compassion? And then
Jen Lang:what is fierce self compassion?
Jane Stark:Yeah, but she talked about them in two different
Jane Stark:contexts. Anyways, we'll digress on that. But it was interesting,
Jane Stark:like self compassion, the sort of gentle or self compassion
Jane Stark:talking about you know, asking what you need in the moment
Jane Stark:about giving yourself it's kind of that nurturing that like,
Jane Stark:okay, just give yourself a breather. Whereas fear self
Jane Stark:compassion, as she defines it, she talks about is more about
Jane Stark:action taking so she referred to even like, you know, it might be
Jane Stark:like, you get into the mama bear mode. And you you know, you You
Jane Stark:get out there or like, you know, you take action around
Jane Stark:injustice, you speaking things that's like fear, self
Jane Stark:compassion, because you're still, you're still, to me
Jane Stark:that's like tied into boundaries, which is a form of
Jane Stark:Yes, self compassion. So we're kind of unpacking the self
Jane Stark:compassion and the forgiveness piece. I think the other the
Jane Stark:other question that we wanted to unpack that came up here was Jen
Jane Stark:and I were playing with this idea of, well, self compassion
Jane Stark:and forgiveness are not the same thing. But I asked you, so you
Jane Stark:you said, For I see self compassion as a bigger umbrella
Jane Stark:and forgiveness is one piece of or sorry, aspect of self
Jane Stark:compassion, or, yeah, of self compassion. And I agree with
Jane Stark:that. And then I flipped it to you and said, Can we have
Jane Stark:forgiveness? Without self compassion?
Jen Lang:Mm hmm. Which, you know, you're like, throwing it
Jen Lang:back to me. I'm like, I don't know if there's an answer. This
Jen Lang:is a way to unpack. Yeah, this is maybe something for you, the
Jen Lang:listener to reflect on for yourself? Can you have
Jen Lang:forgiveness without self compassion? And do you? In other
Jen Lang:words, do you need to have a self compassion, practice or
Jen Lang:awareness in place before you can practice forgiveness? I
Jen Lang:don't know that they're mutually exclusive. But we did get into
Jen Lang:this aspect of, you know, because Jamie mentioned in our
Jen Lang:pre talk, before we hit record that you need to get to a level
Jen Lang:of forgiveness, you need to do the work, you need to do like,
Jen Lang:work on yourself. And then I started unpacking that further
Jen Lang:and going, but if your forgiveness is genuine at the
Jen Lang:level that you're at, who are we to say? Who is the observer to
Jen Lang:say, what level of forgiveness is, quote, unquote, right? And
Jen Lang:if you are forgiving from the level of awareness or self
Jen Lang:awareness that you currently have, then that is where you're
Jen Lang:at. It's not empty. It is simply an expression of the integrity
Jen Lang:of yourself at that moment in time.
Jane Stark:Yeah, absolutely. I think for me, what it brought up
Jane Stark:was, again, there are so many of these concepts and terms that
Jane Stark:are getting thrown around, yeah, in, in the self help side of
Jane Stark:things, but I would say even becoming more mainstream. And I
Jane Stark:guess that's where sometimes, like, it starts to make it feel
Jane Stark:trivial, or when we don't have the bigger context for things.
Jane Stark:So one of the things that comes to mind, and I have to sort of
Jane Stark:try and think on the fly here to how to unpack this. But
Jane Stark:gratitude practice is another one. For me, that kind of feels
Jane Stark:like a similar, a little bit of a similar energy. For me, I'm
Jane Stark:just talking my own personal experience. But years ago, when
Jane Stark:I was sort of in the earlier stages of my journey, and I
Jane Stark:kept, you kept hearing about a gratitude practice and how
Jane Stark:gratitude was so great and whatever. And to be honest, I
Jane Stark:was not in a place that I could find gratitude. And so it
Jane Stark:actually made me feel worse. And it frustrated me and it felt it.
Jane Stark:And maybe it's because I was bypassing but it felt like
Jane Stark:bypassing like, it just, it felt forced. And I would be like,
Jane Stark:okay, and try this and the gratitude journal of, you know,
Jane Stark:100 days and it just, like, I just was like, yeah, not
Jane Stark:connecting to this.
Jen Lang:I think there's a drink continue. I
Jane Stark:was just gonna say to fast forward. I, oops, sorry,
Jane Stark:this big bang. I just talked with my hands and not getting
Jane Stark:sober. Okay, okay. So I start doing my digging and peeling
Jane Stark:away layers and continuing to start to unpack some things for
Jane Stark:myself. And all of a sudden, like, the gratitude thing
Jane Stark:clicked for me. And it was like, Oh, this is what people are
Jane Stark:talking about. This is what that feels like. I get it now.
Jane Stark:Doesn't mean I sit down and have like, I don't have a gratitude
Jane Stark:practice per se, like some people do. But I definitely
Jane Stark:connect to that concept. Now. I definitely. Something just
Jane Stark:clicked for me, but I think it was because I really had to go
Jane Stark:through that process. And I had to get to that place. And I
Jane Stark:guess all I'm trying to say is for me, the forgiveness piece
Jane Stark:feels or felt a little bit the same where I think there was a
Jane Stark:time in my life where I just wasn't at a place to be able to
Jane Stark:practice self forgiveness or right. And it's taking that time
Jane Stark:and peeling those layers away.
Jen Lang:Yeah, there's definitely I'm trying to maybe
Jen Lang:we can give our audience some real life examples. doesn't have
Jen Lang:to be a big thing in the sense of, you know, I ate four squares
Jen Lang:of dark chocolate yesterday. And now I feel really terrible about
Jen Lang:the fact that I said to myself, I wouldn't eat dark chocolate in
Jen Lang:February. And I'm not actually seeing this, but you know what I
Jen Lang:mean? It's an example. And then it leads into that spiral of
Jen Lang:guilt, despair. You know, whether it's food related, or a
Jen Lang:choice you've made or something like that. And then it's more,
Jen Lang:the more down that spiral of guilt and despair you go, the
Jen Lang:harder it is to find the forgiveness and the compassion
Jen Lang:that you need to climb out. But maybe it's just that one step.
Jen Lang:Maybe it's like that, like you said, that gratitude practice of
Jen Lang:that compassion practice for yourself is like, Okay. I felt
Jen Lang:like I needed the piece of chocolate at that time. And then
Jen Lang:it was so good, I had a couple more food examples have their
Jen Lang:own weight and their own, they deserve their own, you know,
Jen Lang:episode. But maybe just by practicing that forgiveness
Jen Lang:piece on like, I forgive myself for that choice. And I'm moving
Jen Lang:on. And as you practice that forgiveness doesn't necessarily
Jen Lang:address some of the underlying feelings. And that is a more
Jen Lang:therapy based approach, I would say, would be the underlying
Jen Lang:feelings of why you chose the chocolate in the first place.
Jen Lang:And why did you spar once you, you know, that's, that's at it's
Jen Lang:a different conversation. But I think this aspect of practicing
Jen Lang:something, whether it's gratitude, forgiveness,
Jen Lang:appreciation, or whatever, self compassion, this that there is
Jen Lang:value in the practice, because it does get us to the
Jen Lang:destination eventually, even if it's not in that, you know, I've
Jen Lang:practiced gratitude for three days, why am I not grateful?
Jen Lang:Yep. type of type of world that we often live in, in which case?
Jen Lang:Are you bypassing? Or are you actually going through a
Jen Lang:practice, that's going to get you to a place where you can
Jen Lang:love yourself more fully and more deeply?
Jane Stark:So how does So forgiveness as a act of self
Jane Stark:love? That was sort of your thought and the topic? Can you
Jane Stark:expand on that and how you see that?
Jen Lang:So I don't know, I've been doing work like this for, I
Jen Lang:don't know, seven plus years, maybe I would say, even since I
Jen Lang:started singing, there is an aspect of, you know, the act of
Jen Lang:learning to sing. And going through the practice and
Jen Lang:learning the pieces. And going through a process is definitely
Jen Lang:a Personal Development Act. And sometimes, you know, I wasn't as
Jen Lang:prepared as I wanted to be for either a performance or a show.
Jen Lang:And so I had to forgive and accept that my actions led me to
Jen Lang:that place. And that, rather than dwelling on the past or on
Jen Lang:a, you know, the bad feelings of that produced, I just had to get
Jen Lang:on with starting the next thing, and starting the next thing. So
Jen Lang:the forgiveness is the act of self love, is I couldn't access
Jen Lang:an aspect of self love and add the depth that I now have
Jen Lang:without first acknowledging the forgiveness that I needed to get
Jen Lang:there. So the forgiveness is a step or a practice to deepen the
Jen Lang:self love.
Jane Stark:So what was I'm curious to, like, unpack is even
Jane Stark:a little bit more in terms of the forgiveness piece and like,
Jane Stark:and I don't know if there's an answer to this, but just trying
Jane Stark:to understand like, how did you? How did you know or how did you
Jane Stark:and maybe this was just your your makeup, but like that,
Jane Stark:okay, I have to, I have to take the next step, I have to let
Jane Stark:that go and move on, versus going down or getting stuck in
Jane Stark:that place of self deprecation or self like beating yourself
Jane Stark:up. Like how do you find that? That balance for things? That's
Jen Lang:a great question. I don't think anybody's ever asked
Jen Lang:me that. Well, here you go. So here, real time, real life. I
Jen Lang:would say let me start more recently. So over the past year
Jen Lang:and a bit, I've been working through a course in miracles,
Jen Lang:and with a group of people and it's been wonderful. And so last
Jen Lang:year, we did all of the lessons, the daily lessons, and now we're
Jen Lang:going into the teachings. And so there's a core group of four of
Jen Lang:us and we meet every week and we go through the teachings and a
Jen Lang:major aspect of this work is forgiveness. So anybody who's
Jen Lang:worked with the Course in Miracles know that forgiveness
Jen Lang:is part of the Atonement. And this is not going to be an
Jen Lang:episode, of course, miracles, there's a ton of resources out
Jen Lang:there. So I would say over the past 15 months, my ability to
Jen Lang:move into a space of forgiveness for myself and deepen my self
Jen Lang:love has greatly expanded through this work and through
Jen Lang:these conversations, bringing in our real life experiences, and
Jen Lang:then unpacking them through the lens of forgiveness, and self
Jen Lang:love. And that the more we focus on the self love, the easier it
Jen Lang:is to love everyone else.
Jane Stark:That's beautiful. And that,
Jen Lang:the more deeply we can love and accept all aspects of
Jen Lang:self organic kind of emotional talking about it, because it is
Jen Lang:so moving, the easier it is to see the love and the expansion
Jen Lang:and the light and the humanity in everyone. Every, whether you
Jen Lang:agree with their actions at the time or not, they may not align
Jen Lang:with you, but you can still see the humanity of that person. And
Jen Lang:the fact that they were born to a family who, hopefully I would
Jen Lang:say love them. They deserve love. Everyone deserves love
Jen Lang:everyone. And so this forgiveness as an aspect of self
Jen Lang:love is just one aspect of that human journey to deepen the love
Jen Lang:for ourselves and therefore the love for everyone else.
Jane Stark:Wow. i This episode is over. Okay. So it's
Jane Stark:interesting, because what I what was coming to my awareness as
Jane Stark:you were sharing that perspective, was this sort of
Jane Stark:sense of awareness. Like when we start to step out of this self
Jane Stark:identification, and the Me, me, me, the I feel this way I did
Jane Stark:this, I'm not a good person. And we can start to facilitate a
Jane Stark:practice that allows for an expansion, I guess, of awareness
Jane Stark:around that, yeah. That that allows it to come in and, and
Jane Stark:that came from me, because that I feel like that is also my
Jane Stark:experience, my journey, I have not, I've not studied A Course
Jane Stark:of Miracles, yet, but when I reflect on what you're saying,
Jane Stark:and the values of that rings, so true to me, and I've been
Jane Stark:unpacking this a little bit, in my own life personally in, in
Jane Stark:therapy, just reflecting and looking at, you know, my
Jane Stark:upbringing, and like you say, somebody's like, yeah, you know,
Jane Stark:I was really fortunate to be raised in a house, where, yes,
Jane Stark:there was lots of love, but there was also a lot of respect.
Jane Stark:I felt like I felt respected as a child, even in my house hold.
Jane Stark:And I felt like, yeah, that, you know, I had parents who truly
Jane Stark:listened to and cared about what I thought, and I'm now at this
Jane Stark:point in my life, having my own children and unpacking this,
Jane Stark:I've, I share this, because it's fairly new for me, the actual
Jane Stark:realization of how it's impacted me and how, like when you said
Jane Stark:that everybody deserves love, and everybody is, you know,
Jane Stark:we're all we're all human beings that are just trying to do the
Jane Stark:best that we can. And that's a really such a big value for me,
Jane Stark:because it's something that I'm so fortunate to have been raised
Jane Stark:with. And so yeah, I look at society, generally like that. I
Jane Stark:am not perfect, I definitely have judgments and things like
Jane Stark:that as well. But it's been really interesting to start to
Jane Stark:unpack this more and more and move into a new level of
Jane Stark:awareness around that, and I just love what you said about
Jane Stark:that, when we love ourselves first, then that expands out and
Jane Stark:we start to have that love and compassion for everyone else, as
Jane Stark:well.
Jen Lang:Thanks. Yeah, it was, that was totally in the moment,
Jen Lang:just came through now that's coming through to all of you
Jen Lang:listeners, and how, you know, maybe we can look at the way we
Jen Lang:operate in this world. And yeah, like, I'm not saying I'm perfect
Jen Lang:in any way stretch your forum, it's a practice. There are
Jen Lang:moments there are things that piss me off and things that I'm
Jen Lang:gonna say like get you riled up, but in a more passionate way,
Jen Lang:rather than you know, like, why why is this why is this so I go
Jen Lang:into that questioning of like, why is this so but then
Jen Lang:sometimes I can defuse the emotional component and take a
Jen Lang:more measured approach to that why, and why is this happening?
Jen Lang:I think we were also talking about this aspect of social
Jen Lang:Media what we share on social media, we would rarely share yes
Jen Lang:to face with someone. So, yeah, not gonna say it to someone to
Jen Lang:their face and have a conversation about it. Why would
Jen Lang:you say it and share it in social media?
Jane Stark:Because yeah, when you Why is it protecting? And
Jane Stark:why is that? Okay? Yeah, yeah, that that was a big one that
Jane Stark:we're sort of unpacking and that it really bothers. Yeah, it
Jane Stark:really bothers me. Because it's so true. I look at things and
Jane Stark:I'm like, and, you know, and even, even when we ask that
Jane Stark:question, I feel like a lot of people, the answer is like, oh,
Jane Stark:yeah, I would totally say that to someone's face. And I unlike,
Jane Stark:really, I don't believe that we have that. The other thing I
Jane Stark:said he was Imagine, imagine if what we say on social media in
Jane Stark:the comment session sections of posts and whatnot, if we were
Jane Stark:all out there treating each other that way? Yeah, like, I
Jane Stark:don't see how this world would be able to we'd be in civil war,
Jane Stark:like, yeah, as a humanity, like
Jen Lang:much more escalated? Because it would well, it would
Jen Lang:be much more confrontational. And then at the same time, to
Jen Lang:wind this back to forgiveness, and, like self love and self
Jen Lang:compassion. When we've all said stuff that we've regretted, in
Jen Lang:the heat of the moment, we've all done that. Really?
Jane Stark:No, really, I feel like, that's my husband.
Jen Lang:Or we all know people who like orange, or the converse
Jen Lang:of that is like, there's stuff that we wish we had said in the
Jen Lang:moment.
Jane Stark:Oh, yeah, there's a lot of that. There's definitely
Jane Stark:I'm really good at thinking through scenarios after the fact
Jane Stark:and being like, Oh, that would have been,
Jen Lang:yeah, me too. Okay. It's like, I always find it
Jen Lang:easier to put my stuff down into writing. After the fact I can
Jen Lang:always express myself articulate, articulate myself
Jen Lang:more clearly, in the writing afterwards. But in the moment,
Jen Lang:it's, it's not always easy. But I digress again. So if we wind
Jen Lang:this back to the compassion, and the self love and forgiveness,
Jen Lang:peace, even in those moments where you've either said,
Jen Lang:Something you've regretted, or you haven't said something, and
Jen Lang:you've regretted it, or you'd wished you'd said something.
Jen Lang:That's the perfect opportunity for you to apply an aspect of
Jen Lang:forgiveness and self compassion. It's like, I didn't have the
Jen Lang:words at the time. And that's okay, because I was in this
Jen Lang:situation. And now, you can either ask for an opportunity or
Jen Lang:create an opportunity to share that again, or to share those
Jen Lang:words that you wish you'd said. Or you can just move past it. So
Jen Lang:to wind back to your first question, how do I move past it
Jen Lang:and not get stuck in that field of self deprecation, I get to
Jen Lang:practice again. You can let it weigh you down. And how many
Jen Lang:boat anchors are you going to tie to your feet and tie to your
Jen Lang:emotions before you weigh down. And or you can choose to move
Jen Lang:beyond it and that, you know, if you're looking through the lens
Jen Lang:of therapy and counseling, it's usually the emotion that is
Jen Lang:triggered by the event that still lives on in you that is
Jen Lang:causing the discomfort in the first place. So then go back,
Jen Lang:unpack the emotion, through a multitude of means there's many,
Jen Lang:many, many different types of therapies. And talk therapy is
Jen Lang:only one. You know, there's movement, there's music,
Jen Lang:there's, you know, you need a multitude of ways to defuse the
Jen Lang:emotion from a situation in order to find the depth and
Jen Lang:deepen your self love and compassion.
Jane Stark:Yeah, yeah. So I think one of the ways,
Jane Stark:especially when we're talking about self compassion for
Jane Stark:myself, it's, it's coming back to like, the simplest thing is
Jane Stark:asking what you need in the moment. Yeah, right. Like, what
Jane Stark:do I need in this moment to help support me? And, and then
Jane Stark:allowing yourself that gift of whatever that answer is?
Jen Lang:There's, oh, yeah, there's so many. I'm sure
Jen Lang:there's some of the real life examples. You know, I can feel
Jen Lang:some of the objections already. From that I might hear from
Jen Lang:people like what share them like, woman trying to leave an
Jen Lang:emotionally abusive partner, or someone trying to leave an
Jen Lang:emotionally abusive partner, where they go back multiple
Jen Lang:times. And it's a number of factors, and they're like, what
Jen Lang:do they need at that time? Maybe there's no space for self
Jen Lang:compassion in that moment. But there will be a space for that
Jen Lang:later. And maybe you find the you can call it an Earth Angel.
Jen Lang:whoever you want. You might find like a social worker or
Jen Lang:healthcare worker or someone in your community or trust. A
Jen Lang:friend, who is that haven for you? Who is that person for you
Jen Lang:who you can say to them? Or they might they might say to you,
Jen Lang:what do you need in this moment? If you can't ask it of yourself.
Jen Lang:So that might be an objection in that moment. But if it's after
Jen Lang:the fact, like if you've, if you're kicking yourself
Jen Lang:mentally, yeah, I think hadn't taken an act particular course
Jen Lang:of action, then that's the What do you mean? What do I need
Jen Lang:right now to feel better about myself? What do I need right now
Jen Lang:to move forward? Maybe you need support. Maybe you'd like, in
Jen Lang:some form or another? I don't know. What's your take on that?
Jane Stark:Well, I mean, I think you're right. Like
Jane Stark:there's, again, it's it's tricky to apply one statement or one
Jane Stark:concept with a brush, depending on, you know, varying levels of
Jane Stark:scenarios. So, you know, I think yes, there's, there's lots of
Jane Stark:levels there. I don't really have anything else to add. And,
Jane Stark:like
Jen Lang:just a funny phrase comes to mind. What do you do
Jen Lang:when you're going through hell? You don't stop you keep going.
Jen Lang:Yes. Right. And that is it? Is that drive forward?
Jane Stark:Yeah. And thinking just, you know, what? Yeah. How
Jane Stark:would you treat others? And how can you give yourself a little
Jane Stark:bit of that?
Jen Lang:Yes, this came up with a client a couple of weeks ago,
Jen Lang:where they were questioning, they were asking themselves a
Jen Lang:question about why they hadn't taken a particular course of
Jen Lang:action. And I say, Well, how does? How do you feel about that
Jen Lang:now? And they, they said, Well, you know, I'm, I feel like, I'm
Jen Lang:being hard on myself. And I said, so what would if a friend
Jen Lang:came to you, one of your best friends or a love family member
Jen Lang:came to you and expressed this same situation? What would you
Jen Lang:say to them? And sometimes we have to take ourselves outside
Jen Lang:of the problem in order to do that, in order to be able to see
Jen Lang:the self compassion that's needed for yourself. Right? Yep.
Jen Lang:Not for the friend. Yeah. So true.
Jane Stark:Yeah. I mean, we're so good at that kind of thing.
Jane Stark:Right? Like, I remember years ago, a coach saying to me, I
Jane Stark:think this was more about habit change, and health and whatnot.
Jane Stark:And I was quite into yoga at the time. And, and she used an
Jane Stark:analogy, though, with friends. She's like, you know, if, if you
Jane Stark:had planned to say go to a yoga class with your girlfriend, and
Jane Stark:she was in your driveway waiting to pick you up to go to class,
Jane Stark:and you really didn't want to go? Would you just go out there
Jane Stark:and say to her, yeah, sorry, thanks. Actually, I don't want
Jane Stark:to go. I'm like, No, I'd probably get in the car and go
Jane Stark:because she's there holding me accountable and all the things
Jane Stark:and it's like, so why are you treating yourself any
Jane Stark:differently? Yeah. I was like, Oh, yeah. Like, why are why? So
Jane Stark:like, and it was, this was more in a conversation around self
Jane Stark:accountability, but it just feels like similar, right? Where
Jane Stark:it's like, right, sometimes I have to step outside of myself
Jane Stark:and think like, I wouldn't let a friend down. Why am I gonna let
Jane Stark:myself down?
Jen Lang:And there's an interesting aspect of that story
Jen Lang:is in the same, you know, vein, another, there's always another
Jen Lang:option. Yeah. And so another option would be, go to class
Jen Lang:with your friend, and just lay on the floor. Yeah. And just ask
Jen Lang:your body like bow. And you know, I've done that so many
Jen Lang:times, Kirk Kirk, and I used to practice Bikram yoga. And we
Jen Lang:were quite into it, you know, like 10 years ago. And, you
Jen Lang:know, we would go to class and occasionally I would do a 30 day
Jen Lang:challenge and do 30 classes in 30 days. And sometimes I would
Jen Lang:go to a class and I would spend most of the classes lying there.
Jen Lang:Because I'd hit a stage in my practice where I was like, hey,
Jen Lang:body, okay, you're gonna be really messed up if you keep
Jen Lang:doing this class. So just just just lay there. And that is
Jen Lang:another purchase. It takes courage to do that because
Jen Lang:everyone around you
Jane Stark:that's hard to do
Jen Lang:in one of those classes. Yeah. And that's an
Jen Lang:aspect of I Gabbard said act forgiveness as an act of self
Jen Lang:love, forgive yourself. For not take pushing through.
Jane Stark:Yoga is good, actually, you're right. A good
Jane Stark:example of that, and because I've had many of those
Jane Stark:situations to where you're in class, and I'm like, just
Jane Stark:feeling really tired or whatever. And it's such a, such
Jane Stark:an interesting battle of the mind. Because you know, even
Jane Stark:even the instructor will say, you know, listen to your body.
Jane Stark:If you feel like you just need to get down into child's pose,
Jane Stark:do that. But you have all these people around you, you know,
Jane Stark:stepping into some power pose. And it takes a lot to be like,
Jane Stark:No, I'm actually yeah, I am just gonna lie here. I've had that
Jane Stark:situation so many times. And many times I have not listened
Jane Stark:to my body and have gone into the position. And it's so
Jane Stark:interesting though, when I found the courage to like to not and
Jane Stark:to just lay there and like,
Jen Lang:and notice what comes up. Yeah, the other like, the
Jen Lang:other aspect, I was gonna say like, even before I'd ever read
Jen Lang:any Louise Hay or heard about mirror work, you know I'd
Jen Lang:practice Bikram yoga for I think it was like six, seven years at
Jen Lang:the time. And that class is done with mirrors. And I would
Jen Lang:always, whenever I could, I was always take a front row, like be
Jen Lang:face to face myself in the mirror, a because it minimizes
Jen Lang:distraction, which is great. But be because it's like, it's you,
Jen Lang:it's you in the class. And when you focus on yourself, it is the
Jen Lang:most powerful mirror work you could ever do. And it's that
Jen Lang:unspoken mirror work process that you're confronted with your
Jen Lang:body, it's really freaking hot, and you're not wearing a lot. So
Jen Lang:you're seeing all of your body, and in a way that can be very
Jen Lang:confronting for people. And at the same time, you see, like
Jen Lang:somehow how kick ass you are in some postures and how you know
Jen Lang:how you're like, Okay, I'm further down this posture than I
Jen Lang:was a week ago. So that that's when I think an act of self love
Jen Lang:can turn into an act of celebration.
Jane Stark:Yeah, like that. So I want to tie this back a little
Jane Stark:bit to our our topic, our new February and just this concept
Jane Stark:that we've been talking about a little bit about fear serenity
Jane Stark:and what it means to us. And, you know, it's interesting, I
Jane Stark:hear both fierceness and serenity in this conversation
Jane Stark:today. I agree. And what we're talking about, and I think
Jane Stark:that's like us the cool kind of juxtaposition of this phrase
Jane Stark:that we have taken to that chose us, or chose us. Yeah, you could
Jane Stark:say that. So yeah, what, how does that tie for you together
Jane Stark:for you?
Jen Lang:So I think I, it shifts, I think a little bit day
Jen Lang:to day, some kind of feeling fiery, and feisty. So today, I'm
Jen Lang:feeling pretty fierce. I'm saying, as the listener, you may
Jen Lang:have noticed it in the way I've been speaking, the way that
Jen Lang:we've been talking about topics. And there's moments for this
Jen Lang:concept to be always imbalance. So sometimes we need to protect
Jen Lang:protect our serenity with a fierceness that wouldn't
Jen Lang:necessarily lead to Serenity. However, that fear, I'm not
Jen Lang:going to say protective, but that fierce boundary or that
Jen Lang:fierce? You need to be standing in the power of your serenity.
Jen Lang:Without it being you have to do it this way.
Jane Stark:Yes. Which is back to that righteous,
Jen Lang:righteous, righteous in your rightness conversation
Jen Lang:from a couple weeks ago. Yeah, ready pieces. Like when you have
Jen Lang:that fierce. When you have that fierce awareness in place, then
Jen Lang:the serenity is so much easier to welcome in.
Jane Stark:Mm hmm. And I feel like I really I see the yin and
Jane Stark:the yang, right, where it's just flowing between like, it's
Jane Stark:interesting, because, yes, you brought some fierceness, but
Jane Stark:then when you were sharing that, that part about the Course of
Jane Stark:Miracles, like it was like serenity came through. So that
Jane Stark:being able to flow in and out and there was something else you
Jane Stark:said, escape me now. But But yeah, there's sort of this yin
Jane Stark:and yang energy and just being able to move between being able
Jane Stark:to define it for yourself. Yeah. That for me, it really does feel
Jane Stark:like that. That moving between, I feel like I am moving more
Jane Stark:into fierce energy right now to more action taking. But with a
Jane Stark:softness, like you say, not about righteousness, not about
Jane Stark:my way or the highway, just that action taking in that place of
Jane Stark:power coming from our own place of personal power. Yep. And I
Jane Stark:need to have serenity in order to be in that place of power.
Jane Stark:Oh, yes.
Jen Lang:So then, how this ties in? How does this tie into what
Jen Lang:we envision for serenity?
Jane Stark:I think we're really ultimately it's helping. It's
Jane Stark:the bigger vision I have of what I see people leaving this
Jane Stark:program with is their own definition of what it looks like
Jane Stark:for them in there and how that plays out in their lives. And to
Jane Stark:so getting tools for that and also identifying where things
Jane Stark:might be out of balance or What alignment needs to happen? And
Jane Stark:then there's also a container where Jen and I can then
Jane Stark:facilitate helping you move. The things that are blocking you
Jane Stark:from getting to that point part put that point. But yeah, I
Jane Stark:really see like, and that's where for us, I think this idea,
Jane Stark:this concept is a term that landed so deeply for us was
Jane Stark:like, that's how I want to live my life. I want to live my life,
Jane Stark:in fear serenity. For the rest of my days, like, yeah, to me,
Jane Stark:that is just so really, that's kind of, again, that's the
Jane Stark:bigger picture. Do we have all of the exact methods for how
Jane Stark:that's going to come out for everybody? Nope. That's why
Jane Stark:we're beta testing this
Jen Lang:beta program. So fear serenity is a beta program that
Jen Lang:runs six weeks starting the week of February 21. It's $500. And
Jen Lang:if you are interested in being one of the 10 Actually, there's
Jen Lang:nine spaces now. One of the participants in fear serenity,
Jen Lang:then we definitely want to welcome you. Yeah, we want to
Jen Lang:hear from you.
Jane Stark:Send us a message. We have sales pages going up
Jane Stark:soon. But we have the ability to secure spots before sales page
Jane Stark:goes up. Who needs a sales page to sell around? I know, this is
Jane Stark:how we operate this fear serenity. This is awesome. We've
Jane Stark:already sold a spot. And we don't have a sales page up. So
Jane Stark:there you go. But yeah, it's, I feel like Jen and I just feel
Jane Stark:really good about it. The like, I feel really
Jen Lang:the timing is right. People are here. If you're
Jen Lang:interested to know more definitely reach out for your
Jen Lang:serenity can be yours day in day out for the rest of your days.
Jane Stark:How do we embody it, and everybody's gonna embody it
Jane Stark:differently? I think that's the biggest piece as I move through
Jane Stark:is everybody. So this is not a course. This is not like we're
Jane Stark:going to give you tools we're going to support you. But this
Jane Stark:is ultimately allowing I think, each participant to show up
Jane Stark:authentically, as who they are to peel back all the layers and
Jane Stark:to define this concept for themselves and to and then we
Jane Stark:support you and how you're going to embody that but that is
Jane Stark:absolutely going to look different for each and every one
Jane Stark:of us. Yeah, exactly. Well,
Jen Lang:I'm excited. Okay.
Jane Stark:I don't know. Let's wrap this up.
Jen Lang:Let's wrap this up. So if your serenity began begins
Jen Lang:first week of February, we are here we're going to keep putting
Jen Lang:out these awesome podcast episodes. Like I said, the theme
Jen Lang:for this month is for serenity today. We explored that self
Jen Lang:compassion and forgiveness topic through this lens. We hope you
Jen Lang:had some beautiful takeaways. We'd love to hear from you and
Jen Lang:over and out next week. See you soon. Bye. Thanks for joining us
Jen Lang:for these conscious combos. If you're ready to dive deeper,
Jen Lang:head on over to Leah Jen and jane.com to continue the
Jen Lang:conversation.
Jane Stark:If you'd love this episode, please take a moment to
Jane Stark:share it with your friends or your network and leave us a
Jane Stark:review by going to Apple podcasts. Find us on Instagram
Jane Stark:at we are Jen and Jane and let us know what you enjoy and what
Jane Stark:you would like to see more of. We'd love to hear from you.
