Illuminating Astrology & Birth Charts With Lisa Hagenbuch

Hey there, welcome to Mystical Sisterhood. This is your host, Maureen Spielman. I started the show to highlight the intuitives, healers and other courageous women that I've met along my journey and continue to meet. Through amazing interviews, I seek to ask insightful questions to uncover ways in which you the listener can apply the wisdom and knowledge to your own life. I believe that we're all in this together. So sharing healing and joy, and bringing community together is both my passion and purpose. If you'd like to learn more about the mystical sisterhood community I'm building, please visit www.mysticalsisterhood.com See you in the episode.

Welcome back to mystical sisterhood. I'm your host, Maureen Spielman. And as you get to know me, you know that I'm all about healing and joy and community. And a big part of my journey, when I went through my health journey was turning towards what I consider complementary thoughts, ideas, alternative, however you want to name it. And that was a big part of my healing. And so a lot of my guests fall under this column. And I always say to like, I love to interview intuitives, healers and other courageous women. So my guest today, Lisa Hagenbuch is all of the above. And I'm so happy to have her today, we're going to be talking about astrology. And as you get to know me during this podcast today, I'm going to be asking a lot of questions about astrology 101. But that being said, I want to welcome Lisa into the space, she has been a professional astrologer since 1998. She is also trained in Family Constellation work, which I hope that we get to even just a little bit today. And she's I'm sure you've had so many certifications, Lisa, but also trained in the work of Dr. Shefali. And so I think that that's such an interesting overlap that we have. And when I was thinking about the tie in to the work you do, it makes perfect sense, because I have a feeling a lot of your work is around family lineages and ancestral work. And so I'm just going to welcome you into this space. And you know, if you want to begin wherever you want to begin, but possibly with how the heck did you get into this work? And when did you know? It was your call?

Yes, yes. And first of all, thank you for this wonderful opportunity. I'm so excited to have a sacred conversation with you and, and just so wonderful to have met you. Through your mystical, mystical sisterhood with. Yeah, love. So yeah. And, you know, I was just my background, I'm from Michigan, a very small town, I grew up growing up, I had no hobbies, I didn't really know myself, I didn't know what I wanted to do. I had a successful sales career. And that was great. But then, one day, I threw a friend, she said, You have to come to my astrologer, she's the most amazing woman. And I'd always been interested in astrology. And I thought, Okay, well, that sounds interesting. And I sat down in front of her, went into her weird little office. And I went in left, blown away. And I knew from that moment that that was what I wanted to be when I grew up, wow. Even though I was, you know, well into my 20, late 20s. By that point, I just, it hit me, I knew that it was what I wanted to do. And I just dove in to I call it a rabbit hole. Because it's the most complex subject that I've ever come across, I'll never get bored, because there's so many things to know, just within the system of astrology that I do. And then there are other forms of astrology. And it's opened my world with so many other intuitive modalities to that I just, it's really been such the biggest part of my spiritual journey. And so I'm so fortunate to have found it, but I think we do find these things when we're meant to, you know, so I was very fortunate to have like said yes, and leaned into it.

Wow, you were quite young when you found it. That's amazing. And I love that story. Because it sounds like you were just going about life and someone invited you to something and I think that's really special because sometimes that invitation is just there waiting for us and and the universe orchestrates the invitation. And then you have that choice. Do I say yes? Or is it a no for me? And on that day, it was as it was a portal into just something so big and new for you.

Yeah, it was it's unfolded in so many wonderful ways. That it's it's like a little spider web that keeps branching out and and it was is the ihme is the most insightful tool to understand who you are. Because through the birth chart, which is like, based on the exact moment of your birth and time and space, everyone and everything and all your relationships, not only to people, but to the different areas of your life, are contained in the birth chart, your relationship to work to help to your children, just everyone and everything. And so it's it to me, it's like a holds up a mirror to you to investigate to understand yourself better and know what your strengths are, know what your challenges are. It's a great tool to shift what isn't working in your life. And having found that first, but I'm so glad I found it before I became a parent, because it's given me so much compassion for other people, because you see how different everyone isn't. They're all had their own blueprint that they came in with, and it doesn't have to be just like yours.

And I thought, yes, that's such a such a good point. And it's such a good place to start, because that's what I was gonna say, when you first, you know, started talking about how it came into your life. And then you said, it's, it's complex it is. And I love hearing that from you. Because that's how I've found it to be at the outset. And so this conversation today is absolutely for our listeners. And it's so much for me too, because I am like, so interested in learning, like, what is this? So I think you just started to describe Well, at that time of your birth, the place of your birth, can you say more about that, like what intervenes on those planes, or how to think about that just as a starting place?

Yeah, and so so I do tropical astrology. And so the birth moment, to me, it's the time when the cord is cut. And so like when the child is breathing on their own, and so, so your birth chart is, is based on your date of birth, your city of birth, and your exact moment of birth. So it's a zip within the Zodiac that we use, it's like somebody took a picture of where the planets are going through the specific constellations at that moment and frozen on a sheet of paper. And so it never changes your whole life, but then it's in constant communication with where the energies are moving, and they all move at different speeds, okay, so they kick off different areas of your life. So most people know that there's sun sign, but you also have a moon sign, you have a personality sign, there's a way that the planet of communication is described in your chart, the planet of love, Venus. So each of so think about it this way is the planets represent the urges that we have to do things like the moon is our urge to nurture and support, Mercury's our urge to communicate, and then whatever constellation they were going through, it's like their adjectives to describe how, how, how you do that? How do you do nurturing, okay, you know, if my moon is in Aries, so I nurture from the standpoint of like, through the lens of, I want to be the one nurturing and and I relate it through, you know, the look through the lens of this relationship, but it's always kind of a through the lens of how it relates to me, but then how I nurture others. So astrology is also the the polarities we bring in. So if, but I respond, it's also your emotional nature, so I respond the quickest. You know, if you have a moon in Pisces, you're gonna want to merge with everything. And you might be highly intuitive, highly creative. So it's that adjective that kind of describes the planet urge to do something. And then the houses are the life areas. So there's a house for work, there's a house for career, that purpose, there's a house for health, there's a house for your money is a communication house. So the beauty of God and just somebody like me as an astrologer is we take all of these energies and how they're interacting with each other at the time, and we try to put that into English for for the person who's just learning about it. So just so you can learn about your personality traits and then you can also give significant dates and timeframes for the near future. Sure, just the energies that you're going to be encountering that I like to think of these as it's a two way street. So I believe that they inform and they compel us, but it's not like everything is faded in a certain way.

Okay. Yeah. Because it makes made me think of the question. Thanks for laying that all out in form. And so it seems like it would be a lot when people first received the information. A lot of aha was like, Oh, it makes sense like that. Or I totally. Do you get both reactions, do you get most reactions of like, oh, my gosh, that makes perfect sense. And, oh, this one I'm not so sure about,

I do I get both of those. Because at the time, the so that the astrologer that has them has had the most influence in my life, and she was in teaching at the time. So she told me to go find I found a course continuing ed, and this woman was very much into I learned consciousness studies, along with astrological studies, so So I do get both. And I think that's based on how the consciousness of the individual isn't using. And the more conscious someone is, they might, they're going to so there's a lot of like, what we call cookbook, cookbook, astrology, astrological cookbooks out there, where they just talk about, you know, Mercury in Aquarius means this, you know, but but it can unfold in a number of different ways. And if you the more you're co creating with the energies for yourself, but you might express it in a different way. So sometimes I do get that makes a lot of sense. And sometimes I get what I use it this way. So it's so fascinating to see how people are using the energies.

I love that. And yeah, such a good explanation. It's I love how you pointed out in the beginning to that it made you have an appreciation for the the unique blue print for a long time now because I think that's that's a concept that came to me more through conscious parenting and learning about that. And so that's a neat, I think, dovetail into the conscious parenting not out yet, but just about the premise of that is that unique blueprint of the individual. So can there ever be one of the questions? I have so many questions, but one of the questions is, can there ever be someone with that? Cut that cord at the exact same time? Or is that? A Yes. Okay.

Yes, exactly. And I have twin brothers. So they essentially have the same chart, they were born, they were kind of born and they say a minute apart, okay. And so they would have the exact same chart. And it's funny, because when they are together, they're like one person, but they live in different areas of the country. And separately, they're different, you know, they're conscious of kind of developed in a different way. And then also a couple of other examples. When I was learning this, they said, there's there was a man who was born at the exact same time as Charles Manson. And he became a criminal profiler. So kind of the same type of energies, but just expressed, you know, very different

ways. Yes, yes. And depending on the houses we grow up in, and the influences we've

had. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because that plays a huge role in it as well. Okay, you know, yeah, I think so. And I'm a very different person. Now, having really started to interact with me my birth chart, which I didn't do growing up, and I came from four siblings, and my parents, they were all very traditional, very, kind of a lot of the same. And I was a different one, you know, and so I didn't know why, you know, and they didn't know why. But it makes a lot of sense. Now that I know, yeah,

it does. Yeah. Because that makes me think of to just Well, that makes me think of family lineage, lineage. And sometimes when, when we have a sense that there are, you know, healers or intuitives, within families that are just, that's the way they're being expressed more within that family. Do you see that? I hear people ask a lot like, oh, what's your grandmother like that? Or was your so do you see kind of those qualities coming down through families, too? I know, that's sort of an aside question, but just one that's on my mind. Yeah.

No, I do. And I really have seen that through the Family Constellation work that I'm coming into, but there are it's so fascinating to do family charts, because oftentimes, you can see there's a there's The theme here, okay, between the charts. So there's a lot of differences. But perhaps they like the first time I started really looking at all of this through the lens of a family that they each had strong Pluto. And the energy of Pluto is actually my favorite, but it's all about empowerment transformation. But it can also it's it can be about where we get into contest of wills and power struggles and all of that. And so, it this family that was each kind of at times feeling powerless, and at times really being called to step into their empowerment. And that was the common theme. And it came in that was kind of what connected that family. So it's really interesting when you see the pattern repeating.

That's very interesting. Yeah, that's great insight. I actually had a friend asked me when I said I was interviewing you today, she asked about Pluto, specifically, because she's heard about it within I don't know, seeing it on maybe social media or just hearing it that Pluto has something special going on right now? I don't know. She's like, it's because those are the things I don't understand when they say like, oh, it's rounding the earth, you know, for the first time and yeah, so yeah,

yeah, there is a lot going on with Pluto in this country specifically, because So Pluto has roughly a 248 year cycle, to go from, in its orbit through all of the different astrological signs to get back to where it came from, like, you may have heard of a Saturn Return, that's usually when 28 to 30. Okay, that's when Saturn comes to be the exact degree and minute it was at the time of your birth. Okay, so So Pluto will never go through an individual's chart in one lifetime. Oh, I see it takes two months. So it's always impactful. If it goes through your son or your moon, that's very impactful, because this is calling you to really play big in the world, step into your empowerment, transform, sometimes go through dark night of the soul energy. But the United States is about to go through. Its Pluto return. Okay. And so if you think about that, through the lens of like, everything that's going on politically, and culturally, at this time, and this is the first time for this country, you know, we're we're a relatively young country. So we are going through that. And the other thing is it's changing signs. So it's coming out of Capricorn and going into Aquarius.

And I think I've heard about that even start, would that be even starting a year ago or so that I started hearing about Aquarius? Maybe in the last couple of years? What you may

have been hearing about the Age of Aquarius, I think shows Yeah, so that is through, there are astrological ages that are roughly 2500 years, and we're coming out of Pisces, and we're going into the Age of Aquarius. And so it's been an interesting transition. What I have, you know, I used to get all these questions about love. You know, when am I going to find my partner? When am I going to get married? And I've had those questions myself, you know, so that that's a lot more about Pisces, it's like about merging with somebody partnering, unconditional love all of that, and going into Aquarius now the number one question I get is, what is my life purpose? What am I meant to be doing? And and I find that people and you might find this in the people you that you interview, they are mixing and matching modalities together in beautiful ways and coming up with something so unique. That it's, it's to me it's like this wonderful community of healers because we're all kind of doing it a little bit differently. And we all have something to add to what everyone else is doing. So yeah,

I thank you for pointing that out. Because I absolutely do see that I'm close with a lot of the coaches whom I've trained with. And you know, there'll be teachers that come into your orbit, it sounds like you, you've been this way for a while, but they'll come in, and then just adding to it or listening to another teacher understanding it in a new way has been really special for me, because I will think I've got it down and then someone says it a different way. I'm like, oh, so and I've been thinking of that word alchemy a lot lately because I that's what I see that people are alkalizing what they're learning and then pairing it with their own lived experiences. And I think you'd say ancestral information. or patterning and making it their own. And that's why it's such a beautiful time to be an entrepreneur. Because I feel like everything's sort of fair game. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and because I think also we're going into, hopefully more collaborative energy versus competitive, you know, nature's collaborative and we hear all these, you know, people talking about, we're coming into, you know, new consciousness, a new earth like Eckhart Tolle says, you know, and, and I really, you know, and I actually see that a lot through the consciousness of the the kids that are coming into Earth at this point, and it's just makes me very optimistic for our future when I interact with them, because, yeah, yeah, they have such gifts to bring, and they are more cooperative in nature, for the most part, you know, yeah, we kind of want to get out of the rat race we've all been to do.

I agree, I was having a conversation with this woman's Harry Potter, and she's, she'll be on the podcast soon. And we were talking a lot, it was all about the kids, but that they have this way, also, of being in acceptance of one another. And we we still see things you know, in schools, where people might not be feeling comfortable with themselves. And there's maybe bullying and things like that, for sure. However, all these marginalized populations are coming, it feels like towards a collective. And to really be in that energy, if we can be in the conversations that allow us to see the energy ourselves and then hold for one another, and hold it for our kids. That's powerful. And I think when we spoke just last week, when we first met is the idea. I don't know if you called them Crystal Children, or rainbow children, can you kind of educate a little bit on that, and some of the language that's used around that, and just a little bit more about these kids?

Yeah, so I first encountered it through my son, who would it so I, you know, tried to have two children, a daughter and a son and I tried to control the birth of my daughter that didn't work out and then my son wouldn't come out. And then I was freaking out, run and charts and like, so I was learning past life regression at the time with an intuitive woman and I called her up and I said, I just I have to pick his birthday, and I can't like it's either March 13, or March 17. I don't know what to do. And she just, like, tuned out for a minute. And she said, you know, he's telling me, he doesn't care. But he says he's a crystal child. And I don't know what that means. But Doreen Virtue wrote a book on it, ranch to go explore that and so like, Crystal, you know, so I did, and that led me to, you know, the Indigo with I think that was the first to me, it's a, I guess, it was based on how the auras reviewed and the indigo children which I believe started coming in, in the maybe in the 80s. Okay, this is what I think they you know, I have a book called Are you an indigo adult? And I think I am but I didn't have the courage you know, but I haven't my daughter is like fierce right? And you're gonna just pay attention to her and you're gonna respect her and she does she's got this fierce energy my son is like all about love and you know, not that she isn't that you know, like I saw like a different type of consciousness come in it was so interesting. And then she said they have his stars above his head and and they're a star children there are rainbow children and I think it's a based on just their, the energy and the aura that they represent. Yeah, and I think they are just coming in, ready to unfold their gifts much earlier and if we are attuned to who they are and let them unfold I kind of get out of that. I always looked at them as like, I just gonna support them and get out of their way you know, because they need a lot of boundaries. It shouldn't say You know, you have to do the boundaries unconsciously parent it does take a lot of work and time. But having found astrology I felt pretty confident I was like I think I've been doing this but through because I learned astrology you know, I think I would have been very unconscious without that. But then also knowing reading about that book and Crystal Children and made a lot of sense and start kids usually a bigger heads. Probably he would I did the C section because he couldn't come up because he has a big head you know, and I'm like, this is like really some there's something to it, that to label them or pigeonhole them, but just understand their energy more.

Yes, and To be open to what we're seeing and experiencing because I think how you're talking about astrologically this Aquarius the time of Aquarius, I don't. Are you calling it Age of Aquarius? Or just Aquarius?

Yeah, well, okay. Yeah, I would call it the Age of Aquarius because it is based on the the astrological sign based on the the tilt of the earth and the precession of the equinoxes. Yeah. Okay,

I wanted to use the right language. And so a couple things are coming to mind. And that is around for the listeners is because they're, of course, there's the children coming in, and the times that they're meeting in the Age of Aquarius, but I love this idea that we're putting out there about what can adults sort of be on the lookout for, if we're moving from Pisces, to Aquarius, and things are changing? It seems like there might be almost like more openings for that purpose that's coming through, or I don't know what comes to mine around. Yeah.

So Aquarius, energy is all about being an individual marching to the beat of your own drummer, it desires freedom, it's very forward thinking innovative. And so they're, I think, trying to show us how, like a vision of how things could be and if we listen to him just like, let their gifts unfold, because part of it is that we I think of the Age of Aquarius, this way, it's like we all have our own unique instrument to play and the collective orchestra light. And so the more that we know, each ourselves as, as, as guides to these kids, as more that we are attuned to who they are, and let them unfold. Because queers is also about the collective, it's about causes, it's about groups. So the joke about the person strong Aquarius, is that they're on their way to a Greenpeace meeting. And they see someone dying on the side of the road. And they think to themselves, should I save this person? Or should I save the world, this person, the world, and they queries, like, I got to save the world? person, and they go save the world? Because so if you think about, you know, it gives me hope for maybe we can solve some of these larger issues, like, you know, climate change, you know, maybe there are innovative methods, and maybe we can save ourselves, you know, it might not be too late, because they're going to be forward thinking they see something we don't see.

Yes, yeah, I everything you're saying is perfect. I am thinking about when you're talking about that collective, because maybe in Pisces more I'm trying, I'm thinking of, you know, like in the 80s and 90s, when, when that individualistic. I feel like some of that energy that people that gained speed and maybe was represented in our culture and a more a toxic form of it. individuality, that shifting and transforming. So this version feels the individual as part of the collective. And it also feels very trusting. It feels like it's the essence of it feels safer. It feels like we're being called to be ourselves and allow allow ourselves to be held within the collective without coming from a place of fear.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because Pisces, I think all of the signs have operate on a spectrum. They all have very positive sides to them, but they do have their shadow sides as everything does in energy, right? So the shadow side of Pisces is escapism, addictions, checking out, you know, thinking codependency. And so, you know, merging all into that one. And it also can be a little bit of it's interesting. There's a lot of shifts, I think, in world religions going on to maybe people not depending so much, you know, having faith and spirituality, but not depending so much and the institution. So I think, you know, that's part that's what they say part of the Indigo mission is to kind of break down the structures that aren't working in the educational, political judicial, you know, all the major institutions and systems. They're like, this isn't working anymore. We have to bust it open and bring in new energy to it. So yeah.

And it feels like asking for the things that be that still remain, is just being curious about how is this working now is we're moving into a new time. it dovetails really nicely into the talk that I just did with. She's a local woman, Susan Lucci. And I think her podcast will be before this one. And she is all about the collective and purpose work. And she's grown. Not not, I think intentionally, but it's grown from this microcosm to like this big macrocosm on a world stage. And, and meeting with groups and entities who are willing and curious to begin a new conversation. So I like how this is all sort of synchronizing across the guests that I'm choosing for this particular period of time. And astrologically, that probably makes sense to, yeah, it does.

Because it's an important time when you're shifting, and you don't want to throw out all the great things about the other age, you want to keep the grade. And that's where, with these forward thinking, you know, it's good to mix that with the conscious adults who can help them to see, you know, just don't throw it all out. But integrated. Take what was working and make it better.

Yeah, yeah. So I'm thinking about some of your in Back to the individual work you do. And I think when I was kind of looking at your website, I was reading about family star maps. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Yeah, so. So essentially, the star map is just another name for the astrological birth chart. And so that's that, the birth chart that's constructed for that moment of birth and time and space. And so it's about kind of diving into your individual birth chart or star map, and then also working with, for example, mothers to understand their children. Because it's to me, it's the closest thing you're gonna get to an owner's manual. And is, if there would be one thing that I would say is, I wish when you left the house, when a new man left the hospital, they received a copy of their child's birth chart and the card of the nearest child, oh, my gosh, and say, go see, yo, or explore it on your own, but you know, understand who you're interacting with, because that was huge. That was so huge, because, you know, it's overwhelming, and, and it is overwhelming. And then when you have another one, you're like, Well, this sounds so different, you know, which is a part of why Dutch valleys were made so much sense. It's like they all have their own signature. And in it's not just a how, because they're helping you to grow. But you know, how can we best support them to grow? And what are the themes in our family and what things aren't working and what things do we need to shift and so so that's what I call the, the, this is interesting, because I think astrology has a lot of misconceptions. So I at one point, I called it an energy blueprint. A star map is another way of just kind of shifting. I think it's becoming these the kids that I talked to, they know their charts, you know, through like apps, right? So that they know their apps and know, yeah, they know how they relate to each other. So I feel like it's making it because astrology is ruled by Aquarius. So astrology has a great, you know, hopefully, we'll have a resurgence i in this age,

I that's, I think it's really, really hugely infinitely possible because even the topics that we're just bringing forth, I know, there are a lot of podcasts that have touched upon these things, of course, but to be able to weave together, you know, whether it's I mean, it can start with, you know, what we know is traditional, but it's just I think they all complement each other so beautifully. And those kind of the deep needs that are going on that what are they calling for, and I I can see like it would be so beneficial. Whenever I've done readings with our mutual friend Valerie wood who was on the podcast, I always ask about my children. I think that as mothers as parents, we're really curious about tell me more about them, like what makes them what makes them run what what is Spiers them what you can see that hugely beneficial in the guidance of our children. And, yeah, our support of them.

I agree. And I think it's been so interesting. And you probably have seen this too is when you make a shift in your life in a positive way, as a mother, then you will see in the outer expression of your children a positive shift in them, and it's just, it's so it just gives you such art of like how things flow down the bloodline, both ways. I think it helps our ancestors. And I think it helps our descendants when we work. And just this what we have control of in in ourselves.

Yeah, I love to that point of healing, even those who have gone before us. I've heard before because a lot of what I learned and then integrate, I think before that embodiment, it's like I take it in, right, even today's conversation, but the idea that the work we're doing now can heal the generations before us is the healing. I had heard, when I talked to an intuitive before that sometimes people don't heal everything that they are, that is possible to heal in their current lifetime. So when I think that was said, maybe not about my mom, but anyway, that when they go on, even on the other side, they are still healing through us. Is that kind of are those two concepts kind of does that make sense? related?

Yeah. And that's really how I, I went the business coach, I helped her, she helped me come up with the name of my company, future echo, because the the echoes, I think, go back, go backward, and they go forward. And so and in the work of the Family Constellation, oftentimes, we're calling on the ancestors, because there are these issues that run through family of lines, we all have them. And they're always looking for wholeness and resolution. And when it doesn't get solved in, say, one lifetime, yeah, through the mother, then there, there may be one of her children that come in with an entanglement from the past, entangled with this issue, because the issue wants to be cleared. And so sometimes we have these issues that are really hard to clear, because they didn't start with us, and they don't really belong to us. But in it, to honor the family system, and to stay connected to it. We are playing the entanglements out in our lights. And so that's why i There are so many different modalities that I think can help to provide, I always think of it as like pieces of a puzzle that you're trying to solve. Because we're all just trying to get more into wholeness. And, and I think, you know, that my consciousness standpoint, you know, some people's consciousness get to a certain point, and they can't go any further and fine, it's just, you know, and then they just maybe need to rest and maybe they'll come back, you know, believe in multiple lives. You know, I don't know if that answers your question. No,

it does. It does. And then I'm thinking about, you know, just you're mentioned to have that healing work, but also the Family Constellations. And because I think Family Constellations as a concept, I started hearing about it probably through our mutual friends just in the last couple of years. And I, we had talked about it, but I watched the beautiful show another self on Netflix about, they sort of highlighted the process of Family Constellation. So I was like, oh, and a friend took part in it recently. But I feel like do the Family Constellations work, when you can see family patterns over generations, however they're appearing? Instead of being caught up? Because so much like on the physical human form, we can be caught up in what seems like the drama of what's going on. And I feel like this kind of work would help people possibly bring more compassion to the generations and compassion to what's occurred even in their own lifetime?

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I think it does, because I think the compassion really flows from the awareness. And the more aware that we are through many different modalities, then and also the compassion comes from things being revealed. Because oftentimes, what trips us up is what is unknown? Yeah. And even within ourselves, so the different modalities I hope you understand yourself better reveal and then you can have compassion as you're shifting into and trying to heal. Oh, that. Yeah. And then the family patterns, you understand that this is this is a pattern passed down through generations. And, you know, it wasn't like somebody's trying to do something to you, you know, it's like they were struggling with their own issues. And they did the best that they could. Yeah. At the time, and

it does. Absolutely, absolutely. That's an that's such a beautiful concept right there. And I'm thinking do sometimes people too, I think this was me at one point, when you go to someone like yourself, an astrologer, or a healer or Reiki person, and you might get some information back and you love it. You love it, and you're like, oh, my gosh, this, this is so amazing. But maybe there's part of you that says, This isn't real, or this isn't like this, is this is fake, or it's not, you know, because I think we have to do now. Because we

Why do you say about that? I know from my personal experience. So just a brief aside, I, you know, I had broken up with somebody and Chris, I wanted to get married, and I wanted to have kids and I was going to my empty install gym is gonna go to my teacher, she's gonna give me a date time, you know, going to tell me when this is gonna just magically happen, right? And she said, Hold on, let's look at your relationship issues. And I literally remember going, I have any relationship issues, you know. So she proceeded over the next hour to tell me my, my issues. And I thought she was crazy. I thought, wow, me from a crazy woman, this is not me. But by the end of that night, I went home and I was like, This is so you, it was like that mirror being held up. And I was like it No, and I just sat I literally set for a year with this. And I don't even know how I shifted it. But I did have one other person for like, one time. And then the next person I tracked it was the man I'm still married to. And so I had to, I had to make a consciousness shift. And I didn't know at the time, I didn't even know I needed to do it. So I have had that experience of thinking, This isn't accurate. What are you talking about? But if you really are honest and sit with it, sometimes it bubbles up to the surface of like, yes. It's a lot of information and in a session because I always felt this way with mine was like, it's a lot to take in. I always record it for people, because I'm going to in usually, there's I asked what the I last asked like, what are your life questions like What do you struggling with, and then but there's usually I can tell why they're coming to me, because, you know, maybe Saturn is really, you know, impacting their chart or Pluto, I'd like to work with the slower moving planets, okay? In that session, because that's where we can dig into the making the conscious shifts that they want. But then I've also started doing some new and full moon ceremonies with my Qigong teacher, where we're working more intently with the lunar cycle, because you get an opportunity to work with that once a month. And there are specific steps that you can take. And the moon is so beautiful, because you can see it. And you know, you can track its phases, you know, and there are different actions to take in a month. So it's a lot about I think these energies are just always calling on us to wake up a little bit more to who we are.

Yeah, I'm soaking in just everything you shared today. And I feel like the like when you're talking about the moon ceremony that it feels like, I like the pace of these conversations, because they're perfect. And they're, they kind of to me are a little bit slower, even though it's a lot of information. But when I can visualize the moon, the full moon, let's say, and just like when I do that, it feels like there's a part of me. That's, I think my mind, that makes understanding it hard. But if I really more feel into it, then it feels like it's part of me. And is does astrology have that mirror to people's kind of as we sort of wrap up here today does it is there a year from our insight to what we what's guiding us and all of these concepts and they outside?

Yeah, I absolutely. And the moon is a great example. I mean the sun too, because she see the sun and it's the core of who you are. But, you know, the moon is where we really it's our feeling nature to begin with. And so sometimes just like being an AI and just going out and looking at that moon is just like unbelievable. And now we have apps to where we can, you know we can't see. Sometimes we can see Venus like with our naked eye or Jupiter or Mars, you know, and then we can track it in the sky. And just to go out and just look at it and be in awe of that and take it in, yes. And understand that they're, you know, the energy is so weird because I don't say, I don't know how it works. I just know that it works. But it's all based on that time you give me the right time, and people are like, you, I can't believe you describe to me I'm like, well, then we have an accurate birth time. Because it works. There are characteristics assigned. I don't know how it works. I just know that it works. But if you give me a different birth time, you're gonna think I'm crazy. Because, you know, that's, that's different than so I've had that experience too. And then they'll come back and go, Oh, my birth time was off. And I'm like, well, that's a whole different chart, you know? So yeah, yeah. So it's part science and part art form, in a sense, you know, the science is like that, where they were at that moment. And then the art form is just interpreting it for people.

So good. So good. I love it all. I'm intrigued, and I definitely want to explore more for myself. For our listeners, Lisa, where can they find you? What do you work one on one? Do you do workshops? And where can they find you?

Yeah, so I do work one on one and I have a home office in Palatine, but I'm in a couple of different locations throughout Chicago land area. And then I'm also do I do zoom, I do some workshops. I do some, like, we're starting to do the new and full moon ceremonies, which are awesome. I partner with other practitioners sometimes. Because it pairs so well with different things. So I'm sorry, working. So Lisa at future echo.org. And then future echo.org Is my website. And they can call me at 847-917-5473.

Okay, perfect. And I'll put it all in the show notes. But I want to say a big thank you for being here today. It was such an amazing conversation. I know it's going to continue.

Yes. Yeah. So we have to do your chart.

Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. Thanks so much.

Thank you.