#259 – Launching into Adulthood: How to Support Your Young Adult’s Journey to Financial Independence with Tess Brigham

Welcome to this week's episode of the money boss parent podcast. I'm your host, Anna Sergunina, and today we're diving into a topic that many parents struggle with, which is helping your young adult children transition into financial independence. I use this phrase a lot when I talk to clients in regards to their finances, is launch. How do we launch? Your kids with us? Today is Tess Brigham, a renowned psychotherapist, certified coach, a TEDx speaker known as the millennial therapist by CNBC. Taz has over 20 years of experience guiding young adults through life toughest transitions, and today, she'll be sharing her insights on how we as parents can support our kids as they navigate the changes of adulthood in this post pandemic world, from financial hurdles to shifting cultural norms, Tess is here to Help us understand how to guide our kids toward independence while fostering open communication. Let's dive in. Welcome to the show test. So excited to connect with you today.

Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.

So let's dive in. And I want to kind of take a little bit of a detour today with topics that we typically cover on this podcast. I promise we're going to touch on the financial part, because, you know, let's face it, that's something that we can't hide from anywhere. But I want to address, and I know you're an expert on this topic, I want to address how parents who are struggling with launching their young adults can can learn some, you know, tricks and tips from you if they're facing that kind of a situation. So I'm very intrigued by the topic. I have a five year old launching is far Yes, it's gonna be here before, before we know it. So, oh

Yes, yes, it, it's, you know, the what is it? The days are long, but the years are short. That's it's that. It's a cliche for a reason. Absolutely, yes, yeah. So, you know, I in my private practice. I started working about 15 some odd years ago. I started working with young adults, and then parents started calling me, saying, Hey, I see that you work with young adults. How do I relate to my kids? My kids come back and what do I do? And and so it got me thinking about, you know, the challenges of parenting in the world that we live in today. And you know, the between the cost of living and how long it takes for people, or how long people are taking to launch and find themselves. It's put parents in this very unique situation of having kids come back. And, you know, there's something like, you know, when it was millennials, I think the stats were something like a third were going to come back after college, and now that's grown even more withGen Z, because it is again, you know, the the home prices have gone up by 100% since the 1970s but wages only gone up by 67% so we're seeing now with this generation that, you know, the average salary, basic salary that you get as a new employee is nowhere near what kids need. And, you know, we've been, this has been getting more and more and more with my millennial clients, their parents were a lot of their parents were supplementing their income, or they were paying for me because I was the, you know, I got the therapist or the coach to work with, or they were trying to, you know, help their kids out. But this has been an increasing problem. And then when I went out into the world, I was like, God, no one really writes about any of this. No one talks about any of this, of how hard it is to be a parent in the world today, especially post pandemic. You know, because the pandemic shifted a lot. So I always, you know, I always tell parents that if you've got a kid that's like, boomerang back, or you've got a kid who is having a hard time launching, you know, it really starts with as strange as it sounds, it really starts with you. You know, you really have to stop and take a moment and think about for yourself. You know, what do I need to do to take care of myself? I know, again, I know this sounds a little counterintuitive, but it's really important for you to take the time and the energy to figure out, what am I doing for myself. How am I taking care of myself? The transition from your kid being, you know, needing you every single day, to not kind of sort of needing you here and there is tough. It's really challenging. It's a new it's this new phase that that parents go through. And the best way to think about it is, you want to, you know you for a long time right right now. You're the CEO of your daughter's life, but by the time your kid gets to be 2223 24 right? You're a consultant. You know, you come in when they ask for help, you come in and maybe, you know, make some suggestions. But you're not there fixing it. You're not implementing the strategies. You're not doing anything. You're just, you're just kind of there to give some advice. And so that's why that first part is so important, is if you don't quite understand you, if you don't quite understand if you're not taking care of yourself, you know, physically, mentally, emotionally and you're not quite sure what's going on with you, it's very hard to be there for your kid. So I always tell parents start there, and that's across the board. But you know, the big mistake that I see a lot of parents of young adults make is they get very stuck in feeling like they have to solve all their kids problems versus empowering them to fix their own problems. So one of the first things I always tell parents to do is, you know, stop fixing your kids problems. Stop, stop. You know, you should be asking questions, not answering them. You should be, oh, well, how, how would you handle that particular situation? Oh, that's interesting. So what should you think? What? What do you think you should do in that in that instance, those kinds of, those kinds of questions. It shifts things for your kids. It shifts them, and it helps them start to see, like, oh, I need to start solving my problems. Because for the kid as well, just like the parents having a hard time transitioning the kid is too because the kids trying to figure out, like, for the first time ever, how do I adult? Yeah,

you know what? One actually interesting enough. I was working on my content plan for the week, and one of the reels that I'm going to post, I haven't posted it yet, but income in contacts, you know, finances. But the hook for, or, you know, the first like slide would be like, you can't finance your own retirement, you know, in context of, like, parents, you know, going overboard, and that's okay, right? Like, everybody has a different story, different situation, different financial considerations, but it's like what you said, you got to take care of yourself first. And if it has to do with money, then maybe perhaps funding, you know, the most expensive college education isn't in the cards, right? So, like, from the angle of like, how can you pivot? So I kind of want to address a little bit I like your suggestions, and we'll come back to that in a minute, around taking, you know, care of yourself. But can we talk a little bit about, like, what are, you know, what are the drawbacks of parents continuing, other than emotional, you know, aspects, but like, in terms of finances, like, what happens if they continue to support the kids and kids aren't really launching? Like, what could be like, the worst case scenario that we can envision? Well,

Yeah, I mean, every parent's, what is it? Every parent's worst case scenario is your kids, like, 45 and in your house, yeah, they have not left. But you know, and I think that's, that's one of the challenges that parents have today, because that old adage of, okay, they're out of school, they're out of your house, cut them off completely isn't, isn't completely realistic. It really isn't. And so I think the other part of it is, is that you as the parent first have to figure out, okay, what, what can we do? What are, what are we willing to do, and what can we do? And what makes you know what makes the most sense? And, and I usually urge parents to if they're going to start helping their kids, which I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but you have to have some kind of plan or some kind of agreement on, how long will this last like? What does this look like, and how long is it going to be and, and how you know, what if something changes, what are you going to do? I think a lot of times, right? And we all do this, which is, we wait until something happens and then we react. But it's worthwhile, if you have a 20 something you know in your life right now, to really think through a bit of, okay, yeah, what? What can I really do, and what am I willing to do so that when your kid does come to you, you have a better sense of it. And again, I do not think, I do not think that parents have to support their kid. I mean, again, you can make the choice not to, but the biggest problem, or the biggest challenge, I see for parents is they sort of agree and say yes without really knowing, well, what's the future or or or asking their kids, so what's your plan to make up for this money? Like, what's the plan? What's your thought? So, you know, if they're renting an apartment and they're, you know, they can't quite make it with their rent. And also eat and do some of these other things, like, they. And what's the plan, you know, what's the so, you know, should you be taking this apartment number one? But like, are you going to get a roommate? Are you going to get a second job? What's going to happen? Because you want them to see this from the beginning as not something that's permanent, but temporary. And that's what parents do, is they they're trying to be generous. They're trying to be kind with their kids. So the kid comes back from college or graduates from high school, and they're at home, and, you know, the parents still paying for a lot of stuff, and it's really easy to kind of get stuck there in that place of never really knowing, you know, right, like, and the kid, the problem is, the kid gets used to living that kind of life, like earning this amount of money, and not quite understanding that, yeah, you've got to start budgeting and thinking about, like, what happens if you pay for rent? You know, what if you have to rent a place tomorrow? So I'll tell parents, you know, charge your if, if your kid is working and they're making money, and it's appropriate, then charge them rent. And, you know, does not have to be full market value, but charge them something. And then I usually say, like, put it in an account somewhere. Don't tell them you can, or you depending on your kid, but put in an account, and then when your kid's ready to move, be like, Hey, I saved all this money. Here's this, we can pay this off, or here's this, here's a savings plan so you don't have to if you need the money, fine, you can pocket it. But if you don't really need the money, it's better for you to charge it and save it for them so that they get used to that. They get used to, like, this amount of money coming out of their account every day, every week, every month. Sorry, yes, yes.

Those are really great financial skills and habits to teach. I wanted to ask you this, like, because you get to work with the young adults, so I am interesting, interested to hear like, what? What is their perspective on all of this? Because we know that the current economic conditions or what we've had right especially like, post pandemic and Pandemic young adults graduating, there's, there weren't that many jobs available, or, or the jobs that they wanted. So, like, all of these things like, what? What are they thinking? Because there's a reason why they're going back home. Yeah, but what's their like, what's, is there a common complaint among among them, um, I

Don't know if there's a common complaint. I think that they are right. They are just like any other young person, you know, whether it was, you know me in the 90s or my parents in the 60s, 70s, right? Like, like any other young person, they are coming into this, you know, very, you know, open mind and and like, life is full of possibilities, and there's a level of excitement. And, you know, what can I tackle? What can I do? But they are also, what's interesting about this generation, Gen Z, is they've been watching, and they've been, you know, they've been watching, they watched Millennials get slaughtered by the media and by society. You know, they Millennials got a really, really bad rap and because Millennials weren't doing anything wrong. But they watched these, their millennial counterparts, like, you know, and they also watched them taking out these huge student loans for college educations that weren't, you know, didn't change anything in their lives. Didn't make a huge difference. But now they're they're saddled with six figures of debt. So they've been watching all this. They watched their parents in the 2008 recession struggle. They've been watching so they are very cautious. They're a much more risk averse group, so they're very cautious in there. So they're coming in with this wide eyed optimism, but they're also very aware that, you know, things are not fair. Things are really skewed, that that, you know, it's very lopsided, that what they're going to earn doesn't isn't going to support them the same way it supports their parents. And, you know, their parents are primarily people like my age that are Gen Xers. And you know, I think that Gen Xers, we, we have a different kind of relationship with our kids. And so I think a lot of kids, I've yet to hear from any of these kids, oh, God, I gotta go back home. They all are happy to go back home like I've yet to meet someone who was like and that's very different than I couldn't wait to get out I like my parents and all, but I couldn't wait to go and be on my own and get out there and do stuff. So there is that. You know that that it's interesting to watch our own kids who aren't rushing off to leave the nest, per se. So I think that it's almost the opposite. I think that Gen like Gen Z ers are almost a little too comfortable, like they like their parents a little too much, that you know, living with them is not bad at all. So a lot of them. Do and probably live a lot longer than they ever thought. I mean, again, so much of this is about our own perception of it, or our own viewpoint of it, you know, if somewhere along the way, we just decided that you've got to be out of the house by a certain time or this, you know, but I don't think there's anything wrong with a kid being 2728 29 and like, you know, if you're trying to figure things out, or in grad school, living at home, getting help, any of that, you know, the time that it takes to figure out who you are and what you want and all of that is it takes a lot longer, and we give people a lot longer? Yeah,

I agree with that. But I also, as you were talking, I was thinking about, like, the, you know, the generational differences, right? Like, like I said, so the Generation X parents are actually the parents of these Gen Z ers that you're talking about, right? So, so we, and then now we, now we're seeing millennials, right, having their own kids and and so they're, I mean, most of them are probably still still young to start facing these kind of challenges. But I was just thinking that for, you know, for the Generate, like the three generations spam, like how much happened to us, right? As far as like, how the world changed and how society changed, and how we can work online, like all of these things, right? Is, is going to take us years to learn and really like, adjust and adapt and like and be good with and then yet, we're faced with these decisions every day. I mean, I see this in in personal finance as well, right? Like, you have to make decisions about money. You'd like you go to the store, swipe your credit card, you know, it's like every day. Yet these skills are like, almost like expected of us to be learned. So like, every generation needs like a, you know, needs time to go through all of this. And you're right, you said this at the beginning of our conversation, like, there's an Emmanuel or there isn't a book. You know, maybe there are books on this topic out there now, but I remember when I had my son, you know, the series of books that, like, what to expect, when you expect in, and then, like, there's a first year, I think there's a second year. It was really handy, right? Like, a first time here, like, Oh, I didn't know what to do, right? And so I would flip through the book. There isn't one on, like, on that, right? Yes, there's probably things that parents can be doing along the way, right? Or maybe once they're hitting the space. Can we talk a little bit about, what would you suggest for both, right? Maybe parents and then young adults, like, how do we prevent this happening, or what can we do earlier, so that this launch is happening successfully for both and parents well.

And listen, I have a 16 year old, and trust me, I have not done a great job with this. So I you know, I need to work on this too, but I think that the biggest thing that and we keep doing this, generation after generation, general after generation, we have got to teach personal finance to people in high school like that needs to be a high school course. I'm sorry, but like much like Driver's Ed, it's a basic and and so that's really, really important. And I think that parents, if you can teach your kids about money and about your relationship with money and and again, this comes back to the parent, right? You have to be in a good place. You have to be modeling good behavior too. You have to be doing that so, but the more you can teach your kid about money, and about managing money and understanding money, and saving money, and right like and I'm sure you know this one well, which is what the beauty of being young is compound interest. You know you like you have, you can put in $20 a month, and that compound interest, trust me, it'll take some time, but it will start to move. Because you are young, because you have time, versus someone like myself, I would need to put in 1020, 30 times that in order to get the same return. So the more that you can do that and and I think that for some parents, you know, it's like, if your kid wants you to support them in some way. It's like, then make them take the course like you have. So when once your kids and adults, you don't have a ton of leverage with them, right? Like the how the rest of your relationships going to look for the rest of your life is really based on the relationship you've had up until this point. You know you've been you know you've got to invest in your kid in order for your kid to reinvest in you, you know, once they're an adult, and if you don't, some kids will just keep going. You know, some kids will some kids will stick around, but a lot of lot of people won't. Um, so, you know, the more so that the one piece of leverage that you have. Especially if you're financially supporting them, is you can get them to do some of these things, and taking a financial course is relatively painless, you know, as things go. So I think that if you're noticing that your kid is really struggling, it's like they keep coming back to me, asking me for money. Don't just keep lending them the money, saying, like, I'm going to lend you this money, but then you're going to take this course and report back to me, like what you learned, and we're going to go through this together and how to do this. So the more education, the earlier the better. I mean, that's, you know, and no matter how old your kid is, just start now. Like, start, you know, start with what it is. The other part of it too is, is that you want to there's another level to this, which is, yes, you want to help them learn how to manage money, but you also want to help them understand money and their relationship to money, and what money can give you and what it can't give you, because I think it's very common, especially when you're young, for young people to be like, well, I'm going to be a lawyer, I'm going to be a doctor. I'm going to make all this money, like, really focusing on title and salary. And I, what I tell all my clients, is like, that's great. You know, yes, as long as you have enough money to pay for everything, more money is not going to change your life. And title is great at a cocktail party, but otherwise it's not going to do much for you that really, truly, work is about what you do every single day. It's about the tasks that you do every single day of your life. That is what work is, and so helping your kid through this process of figuring out what they want to do with their life and helping them really see. Oh, okay, you know, if I'm going to pick this particular path, you know, what am I willing to sacrifice and like helping them see? Because I've worked with it. I've worked with a ton of attorneys. I mean, this is a very, it's, it's a lot of people become attorneys because doesn't take as long as being a doctor. It's a simple and it's a very clear path. You know, you go to law school, you do this, you do that, and so it's it becomes a fallback for a lot of people. But I've had so many clients over the years that were like, oh my god, I hate this, and but I've gotten very used to the salary, or I thought I needed all this money, and then you create this life around the South and and now you're a bit in a bit of a hole. So before your kid gets that job, before they get used to making that kind of money, like stop them ahead of time and get them to really try to figure out, what are you willing to do for this money, and how you know, and how does that change how you want to live your life?

Yeah, I also, I've had a guest on the show before that really, actually works with young individuals to help them figure out this, like, you know, gap between, like, I understand that you can become a lawyer and make all of this money, but, like, who are you? Is that really the the path you want? And so kind of really help them understand early on, before they even, you know, start college, like, what are you really trying to accomplish? And I thought, I mean, I thought was genius to, like, help young adults do that, because I look back at myself like I was supposed to be a doctor, because that's what I, you know, is sort of a stereotype. I grew up knowing that I was like a thing to do. And so I don't know, for me personally, I don't think it was around, associated around money. I love the just the idea of it, but somehow it flipped, right? I switched that idea when I was, like, halfway in college, like I'm done with the chemistry and the biology, I don't want to do it anymore. So I went into business. But I know a lot of people don't, and they kind of sort of go on this path, I supposed to go to college, right? I supposed to get this degree, and then what? And then we have a crazy amount of of them graduating with a ton of debt. That's why we have a student loan. Yeah? Country, right?

Yeah. The other thing too, with that, though, is, I will say that it's great to write, get to people early and start to talk about some of these things, of like, what does success mean to you? And what is, what does all these things mean to you? But I will say that's the whole thing about jobs, it's so hard, right? Is that you kind of don't know if you're going to like a job or not until you're in it. You know, you can take classes and things. But that's the other part of it that's really tricky, which is why you know, the more that you can understand who you are and you know what you believe and what your values are, the easier it will be to make decisions that align with what you know what's important to you. But there is, I mean, that's the whole part of why I say, like, I don't think it's the end of the world if your kid is living with you and they're in their mid 20s, if they are, like, actively going out and exploring and figuring things out, because there is that part of it, right? You do need to take on some of these jobs to figure out, like, Uh oh, I hate this. I gotta get out of this, that kind of thing. And that's that's challenging, too. So there's a lot of there's a tremendous amount of uncertainty, and there's a lot of financial uncertainty during this time as well, which is really challenging for young people.

Yeah, one thing I'm kind of interested because, like, in fact, in the financial plan, you know, when we're created for clients, we kind of have to have an ending point. Like a plan can be forever, so sometimes it sounds morbid, but we have to have an ending point at the same time. Like you have these life phases, like you, you know, maybe you're going to move or buy a house, or like you're going to launch your kids, like one of those, you know, points that you it's going to happen to you if you have a family. So I tend to use like, launch of the kids is like after they graduate from college, right to maybe, perhaps set expectations of parents that you may have more costs than you thought, even though you've saved all this money to pay for their, you know, college education, or, you know, maybe they will come back for whatever reason. No, they need more time. So I and sometimes parents are like, nope, once they're off to college 18, see you later. Yeah. So it's been, like, I kind of looked at it from, I'm like, Well, you know, maybe, maybe the ones that said 18 and cut off are good parents. And, you know, the ones that are staying longer also, like, it's, yeah, it's also like, and you refer to it like, family values, like, what is, what is like, that kind of like the guiding piece, yeah, energy in your family that helps you make those decisions. So and there.

And the thing is, and this is what makes parents crazy, is there is no right or wrong. There's not that one isn't better than the other. You know, I think so much of it is, you know your kid. You know you know who they are. You know how they respond. You know, my son is someone who like negative, negative consequences. Never work for him, never. I mean, I don't think they work for a lot of people, but for him, especially, like anytime I said I'm going to take this away or do this, it just it overwhelmed him. And so I found very quickly, like, No, I can't if, if I want to change a behavior, I have to, you know, I have to catch him doing good, to catch the behavior that I want and praise that you know, focus on that and give him the incentives to continue this behavior versus the other. Listen, there's some kids that you know, not necessarily punitive, but like sometimes they need that little push of those negative consequences. Or if, if this happens, you know, you're going to lose this, this and this. Or, you know, a friend of mine recently, who her daughter wanted to go to this college that was very expensive, and the dad was going to establish the dad was moving there because parents are divorced, and he was going to establish residency, but basically, so they would be able to pay a lower tuition cost for her sophomore to senior year, but her freshman year is going to be very expensive. And she said to her, she said, Well, if this is what you want to do, then you need to sell your car. They bought her the car. They said, You need to sell the car. And it's very much like so again, you know, I think that that was a really good lesson for her to realize, like, if you are going to make this choice to pick something that's twice what we said we could do, what are you going to sacrifice? So for some kids, that's good. They need that. They need to feel that. And I think that's, you know, part of being a parent is you're really understanding your kid and what they respond to and what they need, and what's the help that they they need. You know, my son has a lot of anxiety and depression, and you know, his schooling is look so different than how I even thought it would look. And I think it was COVID that helped me tremendously. Like, when all these kids went home and everyone was doing a different kind of school situation, it was like, oh, yeah, kids can, you know, not every kid needs to go to traditional high school, or not every kid needs to do this this way, not every kid has to go to college. Just

gonna say, yeah, that's another that's, I think a lot of parents realized that, that maybe perhaps it's something else and not, not a four year degree with a huge debt after,

yes, yes, yeah. I mean, that one, that college thing, is so it's, it's such a hard one, because we really, you know, I tell this to my clients all the time, and they, you know, they, they kind of sort of get it, but, but the angsty teenagers, not so much, where, you know, they're applying to colleges, and I'm just like, Listen, no one's going to ask you about where you went to school, nobody after, like, the first couple months, you know, like, I said, cocktail party talk and, like, where you went to school. But that's the other thing too, is, is that we've, we've really taught kids, oh, you need to go to one of these Ivy League schools, because that is going to mean that you're successful, and then therefore you're going to be happy. And that's the other part too. As a parent, you need to, sort of say, you know, you need to be able to explain to your kid, like, Hey, if you want to go to this ivy league school, that's great, but this is all we can afford. So what does that mean to take out those loans and then work with them on them? Like. Like, okay, so that means you're going to take out this much in loans. So what does that look like? Okay, so that means the first year of working, you're going to have to earn this amount of money and then let them then make the decision. It's a little bit like, you want to show them the information, and then, okay, so you make the decision, you make this.

I like that a lot, because it helps and right, because I get to deal with the parents finances for the most part, right? And, you know, the struggle is real because, like every parent, wants to do the best job they can, right, financially, emotionally, you know, from all the angles, but having the kids and be involved in the decision making process is, is really, really, really awesome. And I think also we as a society, and, you know, different generations probably will feel different about this, but we need to let go of this standard that every kid has to go to college and like if they don't. It's like you said, you know, this kid is a failure, and your parent did a terrible job. So I think, I think we're coming. That's what the world has done for us, right? It's shifting all of these things. You these kids will probably be 10 times more successful, and we'll make 10 times more money with all the things they can do online these days. And yeah, just to name a few, right? Yeah, oh, yeah. So, so it's it, I think parents need to, it's easier said than done, right? I I'm like, I'm 15 years away, more, a little more than, like, what would I be thinking or doing at this phase of my life when my son is ready?

Yeah, and that's the other thing too, is, you know, parents, who are, you know, are like, Oh, my God, my kids are still here. I mean, we didn't think, I mean, when I gave birth to my son, you know, almost 17 years ago, I didn't think. I didn't think there was, I didn't think that there was going to be a global pandemic, and that housing prices would continue to skyrocket and that salaries would you I mean, these things would happen. And then, you know, so that's the other part of it too. Is as a parent, you can only work with what's in front of you. You can only work with what we already know. So there is that part too, of you've got to be, you know, you've got to trust, and you've got to trust that whatever arrives when your kid is graduating, you know, will arrive and that you'll figure it out. And I think that a lot of parents, they feel like they've quote, unquote failed because their kids are coming back home, and it's like, no, you have not failed. You know, our system has failed, and unfortunately, because of where your kid is, they're getting the brunt of it, and you're getting the brunt of it. So then how do you move forward from there, versus the self blame. Parents spend way too much time beating themselves up, trying to figure out who to blame, trying to do it's like there's no one to blame. This is just, this is, you know, so many things happen that are out of our control, yeah,

and so you're in the work that you do with the young adults, would be helping them, right? Because what we need to do in this kind of situation, right? If the if the child is coming back home is to help them figure out all of these things, right? So, like, that's the part. Can you talk a little bit about that for I mean, yeah, don't understand, yeah,

yeah. So I'm, you know, I'm a licensed psychotherapist, and I'm a certified coach, and so I do a couple, you know, I work with people either as a therapist or as a coach, but I combine both into whatever modality it is. But a lot of the people that reach out to me, it's coaching, and, you know, I work both with the kids and the parents. So sometimes kids will come and, you know, it's the sort of I'm going through a quarter life crisis. I'm I don't know what I want to do with my life. I'm lost. I'm unsure, and I you know, basically, I help young people figure out, you know who you are, what do you want, what life's all about. And I'm a big believer in giving people the tools and techniques that they need so that they can be self sufficient. So I always say you, my job is for you not to see me. My job is for you to be able to go off and do that. So I do this with young people who are wanting that or wanting the help. And then also parents. I also work with parents, and sometimes I work with parents in conjunction with their kids, but a lot of times it's usually kind of separate. Either the kid really wants the help, or the parents come to me, because either their kid doesn't want the help, but they don't know what to do, or they, very much, you know, are really struggling with, you know what to you know how to work with their kid, or how to manage them, or how to deal with them. So that's a lot of what I'm doing is kind of navigating both sides of it, you know, I really do I understand young adults. I've spent the last umpteen years like spending hours upon hours upon hours listening to their deep, dark secrets. And I'm also, you know, I'm also a parent myself, and I'm about that age, and so I really get the other side of it. So I work with people in. Individually and that way. And then I also, you know, I'll go into companies and talk about mental health and such. I mean, it's become a bigger and bigger topic since the pandemic, which is good. Yes,

it certainly has. So how, how can our listeners connect with you? Yeah,

so you can. The best thing to do is just go to my website. It's www, dot test brigham.com, and on there, you can learn more about me. I have I've created courses for kids. I have an ebook that I wrote for specifically for parents. If you're wanting some tools and tips and tricks and Yeah, and if you like podcasts, my sister and I actually do a podcast together. It's called psych legal pop. So I'm a therapist, she's an attorney, and so she and I, we talk about pop culture through the lens of an attorney and a therapist. And so if you're into we we're talk. We're going to start talking about love is blind on Netflix. So if you like that show, so if you like pop culture, come check us out. Psych legal pop. But for the more of my professional life, it's all on test brigham.com,

oh, that sounds wonderful, and we'll make sure that's all in the show notes too. Any last minute thoughts for everyone listening?

Um, you know, I think that if you are a parent who is here listening and thinking about your kid, then you're more than you know then that that means that your kid's going to be okay. I can't it's hard to explain, but it's almost like I get parents that come to me with such fear and such worry of like, Oh, my God, did I do this? Okay? Did I do it's like the fact that you care this much tells me that, yes, you did a good job, right? Parents that aren't listening to these kinds of shows, parents that aren't reading the books, parents that don't care, they're the ones that you need to worry about, and that that situation. So you've got to trust that you've you've done the best that you can, that you've invested the time and energy in your kid, that your kid is going to be okay, you have to have, you have to have confidence that they're going to be okay and that you've done a good job, and that no matter where they are in their life, it does not mean you know if they're living in your basement. Doesn't mean you're a bad parent. Just means they're living in your basement, and that's kind of where they are right now, there's too much judgment of of parent, of parents, for where their kids are, and it's like, is your kid happy healthy? Then, okay, great,

yes, give ourselves some break. Yes,

yes, yes. This parenting thing is hard. It's no joke. It is absolutely I mean, working is easier. It really is. I'm sure you've experienced that. You've figured this one out. Having a five year old, right? Like, oh God, going to work is a lot easier than being a, you know, it's hard. It's really, really hard.

Yes and yes, different, different, different stages of, you know, their life present different challenges, but

yeah, for better for worse, yeah, they'll keep growing and so, yeah,

well, thank you so much, dust, it's been, it's been a pleasure to have you here.

Thank you so much for having me. Bye.