#253 – How to Lead, Not Just Parent, with Thomas Pfanner

Welcome to the Money boss parent podcast, I am your host, Anna Sergunina, and today we have a truly inspiring guest with us, Thomas Pfanner, also known as the Leadership Dad. Thomas not only is a husband and a father, but also a combat athlete and former division one strength coach his journey as a young father who overcame significant adversity to rebuild a thriving blended family is nothing short of remarkable. Today, we'll explore his unique perspectives on parenting leadership and how can we as parents better prepare our kids for the real world. Welcome to the show, Thomas,

thank you. Excited to be here.

I am excited for our conversation today, and we're going to look at the parenting bucket here. I mentioned to you, before we jumped on this official recording that like this is a financial planning podcast, but I figured, you know, I am a mother myself. I am going through this journey, and I want to have this conversations. Because life isn't just about being, you know, whatever your profession is, you also kind of incorporate, incorporate all of these aspects into it. So today, I want to kind of dive into the conversation about your unique perspectives on parenting. And I know you have an open story the leadership piece, which I'm always, always excited. And how do we prepare our kids, you know, for the real world and lots, lots of other things that will come with it. So yeah, let's dive in. So I know you have an awesome, inspiring story. You became a father when you were really young, yes, and faced lots of challenges. So can you share with us how like that experience shaped, you know, your perspective on parenting and what would you do? Some what would you different? Lee, if you were, you know, a much older parent?

Yes, great questions. So my son was born when I was 18, and I don't know so much that I would do, like, go back, oh, if I was in that could go back in time, I would change things, because I trust God that things unfold the way that that they're meant to. But I definitely learned a lot about myself. I learned a lot about my relationship with women and who I choose that affected, you know, meeting my wife and us waiting longer to have kids. You know, on the second round, my son Charles and my daughter Maddie, are about 11 or 12 years apart, so, but being a dad young, one thing that it did for me is it established right away, right when I was entering adulthood, I was a dad, and someone else was depending on me, and I knew that I needed to show up, because if I didn't perform, it wasn't just me that was going to feel that it was my son as well. So, you know, a lot of my friends were using their discretionary time in college to go out and party and have a good time and maybe develop habits. I mean not just the habits. I don't just mean habits, like a drug habit, alcohol habit, but I mean, what time do you go to bed? How do you you know? How are you taking care of your body? How are you preparing for the next day? What level of performance day to day are you willing to sacrifice to see what you're capable of? So those habits were easy for me to move from high school into college into my adult life, because I had that extra pressure of being a dad to establish those

Yeah, it's and it's routines. I was thinking, like, yes, because with with kids, it's like, whether you want it or not, you gotta show up, because you gotta, you know, like we were talking about our younger kids, like, you gotta take them to school, right? You gotta be there eight o'clock, they're going to be fed, they're going to be dressed. So it, it certainly changes. You know how you operate in real world. So from from that experience, you so, so you just had an earlier start, right? Was, and you had to adjust and learn who you are, right? Like you said, and the people that were around you much earlier I am on the other side, was my choice, right? I got really young, but we were just kind of like, waited to have kids. I was still in college, so I was 35 and I had my son much older. Should I have done it sooner? Probably, right. But like you said, God, kind of like, has a plan for you so you don't get to choose however, right? Like, this whole parenting aspect, I think for me personally, kind of unfolded, not like, you know, yes, there's things that you go through when you have really young kids, but I feel like, as my son getting older, I feel like I'm more in it now. Than when he was a teeny baby, right? That needed to be swaddled and just like, you know, fed now it's a real person with the real world views and talking and has opinions and and so I yeah, if anything, I feel like I would like to have more, you know, coaching, or more ideas, or, you know, like a playbook, right? Like, everybody's there's no, there's no book on parenting. I'm like, there is, like, there's ways to learn and parent and be that leader in our kid's life. So, so talk a little bit about like, parenting, right? Versus like, sending an example for your kids, like being that leader? I know you kind of like that angle, but i Yes, really important,

yes. So the subtitle for my book is the ultimate guide to stop parenting and start leading. And when my son was in eighth grade, he was living with me and my wife full time for about nine months, and towards the end of that time, going into the winter, he rebelled against my leadership and walked out of my life for a period, moved in with his mom across state, and so I had to really reflect on he wasn't there to tell him to do his homework, or how can we work on this or talk this out? The only person there was to work on was me. And so that's really where I put a lot of my focus, and that's kind of the harbor where the dads who lead movement was born, and the shifting from a parenting style to a leadership style. And so as I made that shift, I really looked at where was it that I was telling my son, this is what you need to do. And as kids, and even in a workforce, we're conditioned to lead, and subsequently, I'm sorry, we're conditioned to follow and subsequently lead in the space of here's your list of things to do. These are the tasks. This is what I need from you. Good morning Maddie. Maddie, my is my daughter's name. Good morning Maddie. Let's get dressed, let's eat breakfast, let's get you to school. These are tasks that I need for you to complete. And the same happens in school. Same happens in work. We get these tasks that we need to complete, and so it's very easy as our default, as parents, to focus on the tasks that we need from our kids, as opposed to the questions that we're asking or the example of, do we if we want our kids to exercise? Are we getting up in the morning and exercising and setting that example? If we want our kids to eat healthy, are we eating and preparing healthy, healthy meals? If we want our kids to be adventurous, are we going out and being adventurous ourselves, and then they're able to follow our lead and example and explore for themselves and make their own decisions, rather than the direct style of, let me tell you exactly what to do and how to do it. What you describing here

is kind of like, you know, and I feel a bit guilty, because I feel like I am like, every day it's like, Okay, here's all the things I've got to do, right? So I feel like I'm just like, shooting out things. Okay, get dressed, brush your teeth. Let's eat breakfast, put your clothes on, grab your bag, let's go to school like I and it's exhausting, right? And it's only right, so, and I am for what you said, like, set an example, like, you know, work out. Eat healthy breakfast like I feel, or whatever, healthy meals I feel like that's all done, but help me, like, adapt the shift where, like, I'm not just shooting out, you know, agenda items. Yes,

can I get Can I give you some coaching? Yes, please. Okay, so in the morning, what are the tasks you mentioned there? What are some of the tasks that you and What's your son's name,

Liam.

Liam, what are some of the tasks that you and Liam need to accomplish?

I mean, like, the basic things, you know, if he's not woken up himself, then I just go wake him up. Like, okay, let's get up, brush teeth, change your clothes, right? And then we're going to sit down eat breakfast. That's pretty much for him, right? Like, that's what I want him to get done. And then I'll pack his, you know, lunch bag, and then we ready to go to school, like those, like the basic, basic things.

So, and how many days a week do you need to complete these tasks with him?

So five days a

week, right? Okay, so five days. Don't

worry about the week. Weekends are more relaxed, right? Shooting out agenda. I'm like, Okay, you wake up when you want do it, you know, like, we still do it, but it's less, less pressure, at least in my

head. Yes. So what happens is, Did you play any sports growing up?

Um, I did. Yes. What sports I played? Tennis.

Okay, so what's happening for you? Right? Now is you're getting into the game, into a tennis game, and you haven't really spent much, if I'm hearing you right, you haven't spent much time practicing and preparing for the game. So you are, your coach is in the game and telling you what to do, and you're doing. You're trying to kind of do what he's saying to do, but you haven't practiced it, and so it's all reactive. And this, there's a transactional interaction step here, swing here. So how could you create an environment for Liam that he has the opportunity to either watch you, play with you, and prepare the skill set. Think of it not so much as a task list, but the skill set of preparing for the day. So there's my coaching question for you. How could you develop that skill set with him? Okay,

so it seems to me that, because I'm doing all these things too, right? I'm getting ready. I'm, you know, preparing breakfast. We're sitting down to eat. So he's watching me doing these things, but where it feels like I have to, like, put a low pressure, like, let's go. Get going start. Like, there's that piece. So do I just back off, and I just kind of let him do it, but I feel like we will never get anything done in time by just back off.

So on the day of your tennis match is that when you're practicing? No, okay, so when can you, how can you create an environment where it's okay to fail?

I mean, it probably, it could be, I hear, I see what you're saying. It could be any day of the week, right? Like on the weekends, there is no pressure, like it's just it feels like there's more time. So I know perhaps I need to allow more time for the mornings, for these things to just be, like, easy flowing, and he's the one in charge, versus me, like with the whip, let's go. Let's go. Yes. Okay, I see so more time? Yes,

so make it a skill set that you're he's developing, and then when it's game day on Monday morning. Now it's a fun challenge that he gets to apply the skills that he's learned rather the way that you're explaining it to me, maybe in in Liam's experience, he's feeling like, oh gosh, mom's just telling me to go from one thing to the next to the next, and this is a lot of pressure. And then, like, that car over there looks really cool. I want to go play with that instead. Oh

yeah. You started to tell me, like, Why do you always tell me what to do? You know my boss? I was like, Okay, I am not your boss. But in it caught my, you know, attention a few times. I'm like, How do I respond to or like, yeah, how do I respond to that? And what do I, what do I change about this? But here we go. I mean, we're, we're talking today about this stuff. So it's, it's awesome. It feel you right? It feels, at least internally, that, like I need to allow more time for these things. He will do it. It's he knows all you know, all the things required to accomplish. It's just obviously right, and I think probably in your book, right, like that's the stop parenting and allow them to be the leader, allow them to lead is that, am I concluding that,

yes, and it goes in my I mean, my experience is a lot with teenagers. I was a middle school PE teacher for seven years, and so I have a good understanding of how teenagers shift and operate and their search for more freedom. And even five and six year olds, they're looking for more freedom and more autonomy as well. But the the mindset of moving from how do I get this task done today to how do I develop the skill. So even if it takes more time, and it's like, man, all right, I know I could just clean up these dishes on my own, and I could have it done in 15 minutes. I'm going to work with my four year old daughter, bring her up to the sink. She's going to help me. It's going to take me longer to do, but she's going to start to develop skills. And Anna, what we're finding right now is we've got 52% of adults between the ages of 18 and 29 who are still living at home with their parents.

Yes, essentially, yes. We have, we have, sadly, we have a few friends who have kids that came back home from college, didn't lunch, yes. So

what's happening is we're so rushed, and we're in such a fast paced world. Everything's digital and quick and instant, and we're focused on the day, but we're not focused on the development. And so when we slow down and focus on the development and invest in our kids, it seems like a small thing getting dressed, but getting dressed leads to okay, that you've got that skill down. Now, can you get through the bath on your own? You know, these, these different skills, and all of a sudden, you could have a seven year old who has a large list of things that he can do on his own and is independent, and now it's not all of a sudden, he's 19 years old, and he's got to be able to figure everything out on his own. There's a lot that you've already taught him, and he's ready to and prepared to make this shift into adulthood, and it's not too big of a deal because the skills that are there's a lot that's taught by school, but there's also a lot that's as far as speaking independent. What that number tells me, if we have 52% of adults, their 20 is living with their parents, they're learning, but they're not learning to listen to their heart and lead themselves. And so that's really the goal of my mission, is to help kids be able to lead themselves and develop that independence.

So if I follow this, and because, I mean, I'm very interested in, you know, like you said earlier, yourself. You have to do the work on yourself first. So if I so, what else would I would need to adjust or like, learn or do like, if given more time, helps, right? So I can, you know, I can change that. That's, you know, over time, I can shift things. What else like? Because mindset shift is huge in. It's internal. It's not from, you know, from anything outside. So, like, is there, is there one other item or two, or, I don't know, yes,

the biggest thing, based on the short time we've been talking is, and this was for me too. Was listening to my son, listening to his heart, and asking him good questions. The questions that we ask our kids are very, very powerful, because that's what they reflect on and so you know, if we're asking them close ended questions, like, do you want the blue shirt or the red shirt, they'll be able to answer those. But if we're asked them deeper questions, like, oh, okay, how does your son do any like soccer? Or, yep, he

plays soccer. He swims. Yes,

okay, perfect. So we'll use the soccer so how was soccer practice? Oh, it was good. I had fun to okay, what? What was fun about it? And then go deeper into it, and then maybe you noticed something. And I really noticed that you did a great job of noticing when your teammate was open for a pass, that you you know you passed when it was appropriate. What made you make that decision? And then they're starting to think about, oh, okay, I'm Why did I make that decision? There are three steps, just like when I'm guiding my son, who he's very naturally, wants to be the main character in his own story. He cannot stand being a cog in a wheel. It's just like, like, completely against his DNA. So for kids like that, or really anybody, right, I want to know where they are. What are where are you at? What's your skill set? What is it that makes you happy? Where are you right now? Where are you wanting to go? What is it that you want to accomplish? And those, I mean, those are the two most important ones, understanding and really allowing and asking our kids, where is it, what is it that you what makes you happy they're not going to be like, Oh, I know when I'm maybe they say, When I grow up, I want to be an astronaut. Okay, cool, let's, let's work on learning about astronauts. And you know what, maybe in two months, he doesn't want to be an astronaut anymore. Possibly you've just dived into the process of, if that's something you want, these would be the steps to go towards it. So then the third one is, what is the block? So where they are objective, again, skill sets. So if you're okay, obviously you're five, it's a little different, but let's just say you're 20 years old. You want to be an astronaut. This is what an astronaut these are the skill sets that an astronaut needs. What is the gap? What are the skills, knowledge, understanding that astronaut has, that you don't have? And now, what's one step today that we can take to move towards it? So the third step is, what is the gap? What is the barrier between where you want to, where you are, where you want to be? And then, how can me as a. Dad or a mom, help you move one step towards it. And sometimes it's a direct help. Sometimes, like, for my daughter, it might be okay. I know it's not. It's not as clear with Maddie, but I know what makes her happy, and like, what makes her happy is adventures and spending time with friends. So it might like, last summer, we went up a hike here called misery ridge, and she only made it up halfway. And then we're like, alright, you know, we can stop as much as you want. Can have as much water as you want. I'm just going to put you in the position to go as far as you can. Maybe I push you a little bit. I think you go a little further. She got halfway last summer. This summer, she made it all the way to the top. So now I've got to look, okay, what's the next thing? Okay, you can ride your bike now. What's the next step? The next level, that's that's how I look at it. What's the next so let me ask, What do you think for Liam, every kid's a little different. What's the next step for him and his development? I

think, I think that out to give him more autonomy, like in in his own, like, you know, decisions. I'm confident he knows what to do, but I just gotta, yeah, I gotta back off and let him try it on his own, and not be like this, you know that do this, do like the, you know, announcing the next possible step. Yeah, that's, that's for sure. And he, he's very like, your son, kind of wants to be, you know, in the front lines. And, you know, he's like, you know, trail, trailblazing, whatever it is. He always goes, and seemed like, you know, gathers the friends around. And so, yeah, somehow I'm the one interfering with that, right? Yes, so that's why I was asking, like, okay, and I like your like, how you broke it down. And I like the questions I'm I am very intentionally personal, you know, point here, I'm very intentionally asking questions that are better questions, like, how school good, great. Like,

yeah.

So I'm like, I'm trying to act as those, you know, those kinds of questions, yes and no, because I want more, you know, I want to have a more first. I want to have more engagement with him, right? Like, I want to know. I'm like, especially now we're in a new school, you know? And I don't get to talk to his teacher and, you know, so there's, there's that curiosity point, but I also want to have just better conversations with him, and I feel like we're getting there Right. And again, it's the parent, right? Like, ask, ask better questions. In order to it doesn't even have to be kids, anyone questions, and you'll get better engagement. So, but then I also started to notice, like he would at times, just like this morning, he would just, she just came up and says he has a friend from his previous school in his class now. And he is like, Mom, do you know that Dominic is going to be in my you know, after care today? I was like, Oh, he is. And where did I come from, you know? And he's like, looking around to get him a little toy, you know, as a gift. So I was like, Okay, well, you know, whatever, you know, go get whatever you need. Because we were just about to leave, you know, to walk to school. So, like, these moments do happen, like, where it's just kind of like, out of nowhere, something comes out of his mouth. I was like, okay, you know, that's exciting. And you know you're going to, you know, just do all these things and, and so, yeah, I I love that approach, like better questions to get better conversations, for sure. Yes, how just, kind of, like shifting gears a little bit. And I knew, I know you have, like, your challenge happened a little bit later when your son was older. So, and that's probably, I mean, their parents always talk about how teenage years are, are harder, right? Or are different. So like, talk a little bit about this rebellion thing. Like, is that all happening now that we know what you know, what we know we just talked about, is that all happening because parents aren't prepared for that, right? Like, you can't blame the kids. Like, or can you? So, like, I want to,

I want to. So your question is, what is the cause of teenage rebellion? Yes, yes, perfect. Great question. So, as I mentioned, I was a teacher for seven years, and during my time there, I noticed because I was in PE but I saw this even a lot more in the classroom when I was an advisory teacher, or whatever it might be, when you were in school, and I got close to the end of the period, what do kids start to do the last two or three minutes?

Do you remember? I guess I was like, wow, what do they they get up and eager to go at the classroom? Right? Is that? Yes, right. Okay.

Digit. You could probably hear bags zipping up, binders closing they're ready to get out. But then the second that that bell rings, what happens? They go for the door. Yeah, they're out, right? And so what I noticed is that throughout. Throughout the school day, as I got closer to lunch, more freedom. This was a greater tension. Kids were more eager, like they ran faster. And throughout the school year, it gets this tension build up more and more. Finally, at the end of the school year, the last day, it is a day of chaos. People are pulling fire alarms. They're making bad decisions. They don't know what to do. Their freedom is now. They've been they felt this restriction, it has now been released, and they are out in the world to do what they wish. And so anytime this is just one example. I call this box theory, anytime we restrict freedom, is going to be met with tremendous opposition. Anytime we restrict freedom, it's going to be met with opposition. And you can see this even in movies like Braveheart or in world history. Restriction of freedom, people will fight and die and take tremendous sacrifice in the pursuit of freedom. It's a very natural human drive that we have. So what can happen is there's, there are always going to be it's a perceived restriction, right? And so if the parents are the perceived as the source of restriction, then there can be a rebellion against them. So having a dynamic relationship with our kids before there are teenagers, this is like, going, okay, my clients and people go through the book. This is why I spend a lot of time talking about going on adventures and doing fun activities with your kids, so that your brand as a parent is not just police officer. Because if you know a police officer is on a certain corner on your way home, there's a good chance you're either you're going to go around or just slow down when you go by and then speed back up. So we want to create an environment and a relationship with our kids where it's dynamic and they see us as a as a source of growth. Coming back to skill development, what is the brand when your son call probably doesn't have the phone right now, but in Yes, eight years, when he has a phone and you call him and it says, Mom, there's an instant reaction that he's going to have. So is that reaction like, Oh, all right, cool. What's mom? Or is it oh shit,

oh gosh, I'm gonna answer that, right?

Let me see if I can, like, step out. Like, get away. Don't answer. Be like, so that hurts

to hear, but I Yeah. I mean, of course I want to be like, hey mom, you know, be excited to talk to me. No, I hear you. Wow. Wow, yes.

So it's the reason. Coming back to the answer of your question, kids rebel because they feel their parents are the source of their restriction. I'm not able to go out with my friends because of my parents, even if we say, hey, you'll need to get your homework done before you go out with your parents or go out with your friends. Then they don't get their homework done, they can either have the mindset of, man, my parents have all these rules, and it's, it's mom or dad is the reason that I'm not able to go out my mom said, or they have the mindset of, okay, I collaborated with my parents, and I actually was included on This decision that I it is important me for to finish my schoolwork, because A, B and C, and if I don't get to go out with my friends, it's because I didn't finish my homework. And my my own abilities aren't where they need to be, not because of my parent. So we can set up expectations with them, but it's under the framework that they're able to expand or contract based on their own abilities, not on our rules.

Yeah, because I think you explained it, I wanted to, like, clear, like, there are rules, right? There are things you supposed to do, right? So, like, yes, but having Yeah, I think having them be the ones that are leading with the decisions, versus like you gotta do homework and then only then you'll go to play with your friends or whatever it is. Yeah, I like that. So in your and you've spent quite a bit of years in working in schools, right? And so, and it's a bit of a interesting topic for us right now, my family, because, you know, while the kids are young, you you send them to private school or, you know, daycare, and so it feels like you have some say as to what's happening there. But now we're like, okay, we're going to take this this, you know, path and public schools are great in our area here, and so do they do the. Public Schools or our education system, has the same view of what we're talking about here, like, I think, and maybe I know the answer to that, but like, yeah, it's like, you want to do all of this work at home, but then yet, you send your kids to school for six or seven hours a day. And yeah, so I wanted, I wanted to hear your take on our education system and how it could be like a collaboration with with all of this work we're doing as parents. Yes,

you know, every parent situation is different. I have friends who are able to homeschool their kids and, you know, they can, like, fully gray out and map the curriculum. And I have friends who are also great parents the way that their life is structured. They're like, hey, what's the best move on the board? And the best move on the board for our family is to send them to school to learn and get those you know that growth there as well. I do believe, from being in the school system, that the school teaches us to be better followers, not better leaders. And just by the structure alone, if you have 30 middle school kids in a class, 1314, year old kids, I'm not able to ask. I mean, I shouldn't have a limiting belief, right? Might take me a long time to have a deep conversation with each kid in the class. What is it that you want to do? Where is it that you're going, you know? And the structure is, Hey, okay, I've got to move everybody in a direction, right? There are lakes and there are rivers and the lakes are open exploration. You could go any direction the river is. We're all moving in this direction together. Hop on your raft. Here we go. And sometimes you need a lake to be able to explore and slow down, like the example at the beginning of the call with with your son, like, when it's game on and you get out the door, it's a river, but the skill set that he's to develop of paddling is probably done in more of a lake environment, so that when he gets to the river, he's able to be confident in what he's doing, confident and competent. But I think the school system is and there's an important role, and you need to be able to be a lifelong learner depending on the school. I really like spaces where kids get more input on what they're learning. I do think a lot of the school system is outdated and like, Hey, we're all going to learn the same thing. And now even LOOK AT chat. GBT, you know, I've my son was like, my teachers are like, the school policy is, like, no chat. Bgbt, I'm like, Well, you know, and I didn't say this to him because he's already rebellious. I don't want to make it worse, but in the world, you're going to get to use it. So if I can take 1000 word essay and put it into chat GPT, and then have it rip out, you know, all the grammar, which probably my son just says, Write 1000 word essay and rip it out. Here it is. It turned it in and it's done. It's the same. What does it make a difference if I did it or not, right? So, yeah, we're adjusting. So what my question if I was going to take my so our daughter, who's five, is going to private pre K, but if you she was going to another school, like, how are you going? How are you adjusting? How are you going to be not stuck in the old ways of doing things. But how can you prepare the kids to be unique in something different,

yeah? And that is, I mean, that's the question that still kind of, you know, sits in our mind for sure. I do, however, think like, there is, like, I mean, think about it, when we were young, right? There was no computers, there was no like, none of that stuff. And, you know, I don't want to sound like I'm an old fart here, but like, somehow we managed it, right? We wrote the essay, like we did all of those things so, and I feel like these are the basic skills like in life, right? We want them to learn. But there's, I mean, there's just a maybe slight difference, I don't not, you know, against chat, GPT, or any of that stuff, yeah, when the time is right, for sure, right? Because you are using it. I used it today, like, for our preparation for this episode. Like, I, you know, just a side note, you know, to get stuff ready so, but I still feel like these basic life skills are important. So I, yeah, I do have sort of a kind of, like, mixed feeling about the, you know, the school system, the education system, and then like, and I feel like, just, just, just my thoughts, like, as a parent, it is our job to if, if there's not enough, that's, you know, what they're getting in school. That's our job to fill those gaps, right? Yes, they may not align, I guess, and that's why you have this movement in the book you wrote. It might not. Align exactly with what is going on, but like I think in combination, there'll be success, at least. That's my hope. Yes,

and that's a big thing that I would encourage parents, especially if you're listening to this and your kids are in school, knowing that my son, my daughter, is going to school to school. It's going to help them to become a better follower. It's going to help them become good at listening to other people and completing tasks. And that is important, and it's important to be able to listen to their own heart and listen to their own direction, what they're being led, and the action that they feel called, not because anybody else is telling them to do it, but because they're wanting to do it for themselves and for our generation, or even our parents generation, that was a lot easier because you had more boredom. My dad's like, he's telling me, like, well, when you know, when I lived in Corvallis, Oregon, there wasn't one to do. So I go out in the woods, and I remember, I wasn't real proud of it now, but I just was like, Oh, I'm going to try to shoot some birds with my BB gun. Just going out exploring. I wonder what I'm going to do, let me go explore and be curious. And I think we're losing a lot of that space for kids to be curious, because there's constantly an iPad, there's constantly a thing to do, there's constantly a task, there's constantly a practice and slowing down and saying, Hey, what is it that brings you joy? What is it that you feel called to explore those Lake environments, as opposed to the rivers? Can really give them something unique, because if they've been in a river their whole life, and then they turn 18. This is what we're seeing. They turn 18 and they're in a lake, like, Okay, I know last year you had to ask if you wanted to go to the bathroom. Now you need to figure out how to do, like, take care of your entire life by yourself. They're overwhelmed and they're they don't have the skill set to make it happen

unprepared. Yeah, no, it does. It doesn't make perfect sense. Um, tell us a little bit about the book, and is it out right? I thought it is

in editing right now. Also, my target release date is November. It'll be coming out really soon. The book is called dads who lead, and the ultimate guide to stop parenting and start leading. And it goes in depth about our roles as dads, how the role as dad is different than the role as mom and unique. I think a lot of dads feel like, in today's society, they're kind of like mom 2.0 or like Mom, mom's backup, and they just need to be a different version of mom. And so it talks about how to be like your unique dad, the challenges that dads are facing today and are the kids are facing today with technology and how things are shifting, how to earn, like, genuinely earning respect. And that's something that like as men, earning respect is really big, and earning respect from our kids is different than any other space in life. So earning that respect understanding rebellion and then like process and steps to help reverse it and create challenges and experiences with your kids that are aligned with your values as a family. That's really the, not, like, kind of the five sections,

I love it. Yes, I'm definitely getting that from my husband. I, as you were describing it, I'm like, Wow, maybe Thomas will write a book for women too. At some point you said, like, I know this is me, but I feel like I am in the front lines, and I am getting, like, to, you know, be the one, you know, in their example today, to, like, give commands and give orders. And my husband is like, okay, you know he would step in for sure, but it's like, I feel like it's, it's just a different level, right for women. So probably there's stuff to adjust and learn as well, but I love it. So we'll, we'll definitely, once it's out, and maybe we can position this to be, you know, come out on, you know, on the same day or around absolutely work. That would be awesome. You also mentioned to me there is for those who kind of interested in to start exploring this topic. You have a quiz talk about it. How can our listeners kind of get their hands on it?

Yeah, absolutely. It's really simple URL, it's dads who lead.com. There's a leadership quiz, and we fall, all fall into one of three basic leadership styles, and each of those has its strengths and weaknesses. And so it'll help you just kind of understand yourself and how you lead, and what are going to be the natural ways that you connect the most with your kids? And then what are the common things, especially if you got teenagers that might make your call your kids more likely to rebel against your leadership or not respect you as a parent, to get to stay a step ahead of those. Yes, and it has a, yeah, I'll send you a full breakdown guide of your leadership style. It's a, it's completely free, and I'll get you kind of plugged in with their network as well. And what awesome.

Yeah, I think it would be a first, kind of getting first step in, getting started to kind of like, hey, pause, thinker. He assess, I love it. This has been helpful. I mean, I know we just like, scratch the surface, like, I just like a few, a few little questions for sure that I got to ask today. I want to stay in touch, and I'd love our listeners to connect with you. How can we do that? Honestly,

the best way is that quiz. If you, if you get onto that quiz, you'll plug into our email list. If you get an email from dads who lead or the leadership Dad, just reply to it and I'll get it. I read all, all of the and everything that's replied. If you want to follow me on social at this phase, I'm not super active as far as putting out content, because I'm really focused on the book, but the leadership dad on Instagram and then also the leadership dad on YouTube.

Awesome. Yes, we'll have all of this in the show notes. Thank you so much, Thomas. This is this has been helpful. I feel like we still need to continue talking about it. So more to come. I'm gonna process myself and have my husband read your book and then come up with with more questions, but any last parting thoughts before we close?

I just Yeah, I appreciate coming on and sharing the word. And if you're a dad or a mom out there, and you are man like man as parenting, thing is tough, that means you're doing a great job is if it's easy, then you're probably just taking the easy route. And parents who challenge themselves to challenge their kids run into problems. So just know that running into obstacles is totally normal. It's just how willing are we to be able to evolve and get through that obstacle to the next.

Wow. Okay, that's a relief. Okay, sure. Thank you for saying that. It's been pleasure to have you here

absolutely.