Jan. 28, 2025

Scale a Badass Brand with BIG Profits, No Employees & Without the BS with Pia Silva

Scale a Badass Brand with BIG Profits, No Employees & Without the BS with Pia Silva

Do you want to transform your business into a powerhouse of value, confidence, and success? Imagine effortlessly attracting your dream clients, charging what you’re truly worth, and delivering such remarkable value that your brand becomes unforgettable. 

In this episode, Pia Silva, a small branding agency coach, shares powerful strategies to help you stand out from the competition and establish yourself as a trusted authority in your industry. Discover actionable tips to optimize your operations, enhance your credibility, and create a sustainable business model built for long-term success.

Packed with Pia’s practical insights and transformative ideas, this will be your guide designed to help you recognize your true value and thrive in today’s competitive landscape. Whether you’re ready to refine your pricing, redefine your brand, or build stronger connections with your ideal clients, this conversation will inspire you to take the next step with clarity, purpose and confidence. Don’t miss out!

Key Takeaways in this Episode:

  • Niching Down for Profitability: Niching down may increase profitability by allowing you to streamline your offerings and become an authority in your space.
  • Sell the First Step: Avoid the common mistake of writing proposals after initial client conversations - instead, sell the first step as a "fit call" to determine if you're the right fit.
  • The Power of "No": Saying "no" to the wrong clients is just as important as saying "yes" to the right ones. Focus on clients that bring you joy and further your expertise.
  • Pia's "50/25/25" Formula: Pia's unique formula can help you achieve financial freedom by ensuring you make the total revenue needed in just 50% of your working hours.
  • Transparent Pricing: Approach pricing conversations transparently by offering package options, rather than dancing around a client's budget. This builds trust and authority.
  • Leveling Up for the AI Era: As AI takes over more low-level tasks, the key to thriving will be to level up your strategic thinking and communication skills to deliver true transformation.


"The real profit and freedom come from focusing on profitability, not just steady monthly income.” ~ Pia Silva


About our Guest: 

Entrepreneur, speaker, and author Pia Silva is a small branding agency coach, founder & head trainer of No BS Agency Mastery, a training program where she teaches 1-2 person branding agencies how to scale to $30-50k months while reducing their workload by up to 80%, all without employees, and a partner, brand & business strategist at Worstofall Design where they build Badass Brands without the BS.

Pia is the author of the best-selling book “Badass Your Brand: The Impatient Entrepreneur's Guide to Turning Expertise into Profit” and has delivered a popular TED Talk on cultivating true confidence. 


Links:

Website

Instagram

LinkedIn

Facebook 

No BS Agency Podcast

Gift: A free audio version of Pia's book Badass Your Brand: The Impatient Entrepreneur's Guide to Turning Expertise into Profit. 

Book: Badass Your Brand: The Impatient Entrepreneur's Guide to Turning Expertise into Profit


Connect with Patty:

PattyFarmer.com

Facebook

LinkedIn

Instagram

Twitter/X

YouTube

Want to know the 7 key areas needed to ramp up your business? Take the quiz!

Get your Free Copy of the Marketing, Media & Money Magazine Now!


Thanks for listening!

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

Subscribe to the podcast

If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Leave us an Apple Podcasts review

Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. 



Transcript
Patty Farmer:

Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's edition of The Marketing Media & Money podcast. And I am really excited because today we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics, right? You know? So let me ask you a couple questions first, though. So plug if your business could thrive by focusing on exactly the right clients, pricing your services with confidence and delivering value in a way that sets you and your brand apart, because we all know that too often, entrepreneurs undervalue their expertise by breaking free starts with redefining how you approach your offers, your brand and your clients. And today, we're going to share strategies to help you streamline your business, elevate your authority and build a model that fuels both success and sustainability, and we know that's the name of the game. And so I have an amazing expert here with us. I have been following her for a very, very long time, and I love all the things she's done. I've read her book, I've watched and listened to her podcast. And so I'm really excited that I get to share her with you today. So let me tell you a little bit about her. So entrepreneur, speaker and author, Pia Silva is a small branding agency coach, founder and head trainer of the no BS agency mastery, a training program where she teaches one to two person building branding agencies how to scale to 30 to 50,000 months while reducing their workload by up to 80% all without employees and a partner, brand and business strategist, at worst of all, design, where they build badass brands without the BS, she's the author of the best selling book, badass, your brand, the impatient entrepreneurs guide to turning expertise into profit, has delivered a very popular TED talk on cultivating True Confidence. So I am so excited for you to have you here, because I gotta tell you all of those things that you're saying you do, like, 30 to 50k months, not years months like you get to do it by reducing your workload by up to 80% I mean, that is pretty impressive. So thank you so much for being here.



Pia Silva:

Yeah, that's the dream. Thank you so much, Patty. Thanks for having me. And what a fabulous intro. I appreciate it.



Patty Farmer:

Thanks. So let's just jump right in. So one of the things that I hear all the time is about Nishi, right? Should I? Shouldn't I? Right? You know, and a lot of times, it's often advised that many entrepreneurs struggle with the fear of limiting that audience, right? They're always so worried about that. What's your advice for overcoming this fear and choosing the right niche? Because I think it is just really, really important.



Pia Silva:

Yeah, well, I'm obviously in agreement on that. I think people think niching is something it isn't necessarily. I think people have a very narrow view of niching. They think I have to work with a specific industry, and that's it. But I actually, you know, I built my agency to 30 to $50,000 months working with one to three person surface businesses, and that really covered a wide range of industries. So my philosophy is that you need to niche in order to a be seen as an expert to a certain group of people, so that your audience can when they interact with you realize, oh, wow, this person really gets me, and they've they've seen my situation before, so they're actually bringing understanding and nuance. That's important, but it's also important to niche because it allows you to create repeatable systems and processes, and that's what the profit is. So I talk a lot about profit, and profit comes from being able to repeat your your framework, repeat your process, so you're not reinventing the wheel each time. So the reason that niching to one to three person service businesses work so well for me is that even though it was, I mean, people don't want a niche also, because they think it's going to be boring, anything but boring. I worked with projects across industries all over the place, and what I found was, though they all needed the same set of deliverables, really, they needed strategy, copy, a website that largely had the same number of pages, had the same, you know, same kinds of pages. What was inside was highly customized to the client, but the container could be exactly the same, and that allowed me to get really good at my process and also be able to speak with such confidence about it when I was speaking to prospects, which confidence right my TED talk is, is how you also get paid the big bucks for your work, is because people really believe you, because you believe you, because you have a lot of confidence in it,



Patty Farmer:

You really work too. Because, I know a lot of times they'll say, Well, buddy, I don't really have a process. I work with so many different people, and I I customize just for them, and, you know, and so I don't really have a process. And I'm like, you do? We all have a process, right? We all have a process. But it is true that when you work with, like you said, at one to two or three, and you niche down to that, you get really good at it, where you have seen everything, know, all the things that they've been through, and really. How to help them even more. So I think that that is so true. And you know, not only that, but I actually really feel that way, even when I'm going to speak as a speaker, right? You know what I think about that sometimes when they want you to speak, they're like, oh, Patty, there's going to be, you know, 300 people. And when you ask them, oh, well, who's going to be in the room? And they're like, Oh, well, we're gonna, you know, I know you're in marketing, but we're gonna have Reiki healers, and we're, you know. And so when you're thinking about it, you also have to ask yourself, when you're going places, are the people that you want to be around also in the room, right? Because that's why I always say and my biggest thing is, it isn't just about your target market or who are your target buyers, right? You know, it's really about who your target buyers are. So I have to tell you, I've been so excited to talk about this with you, because I feel like we are so on the same page with really how this actually helps you to make more profit,



Pia Silva:

Yeah, and to make business decisions. To your point, you can't do everything. They're only 24 hours in a day, so you have to pick and choose where you're going to put your energy. And you know, 300 people in a room sounds nice until you realize none of them are your ideal clients, and then it's a huge waste of time, and there's a real opportunity cost just speaking in front of 300 people that are not your audience. So you need to be able to be discerning about that. And if you don't have a specific target market, you might say yes to a lot of things that are ultimately a complete waste of time, and you should have been doing something else. So I don't think, yeah, in the beginning,



Patty Farmer:

It's my language. I know that, though, but to your point, really, I also is when you're not trying to do everything, Mm, hmm, across the board, you have these amazing opportunities to collaborate with other people, right? You know? And I think that is such an opportunity, right? So let's start with I always think it's really important for people to know what not to do as well as what to do, right? I always want to know what not to do too, right?



Patty Farmer:

So what would you say are the most common mistakes that entrepreneurs make when they're selling, pricing, niching, and how can they avoid these pitfalls? Because we just see the same things over and over again.



Pia Silva:

Yeah, well, when it comes to niching, because I know the first part of your question, I kind of forgot about, which is, like in the beginning, it can kind of feel like you're limiting yourself, if you niche and you know, there's a time and place to not limit yourself, and I would say it's kind of in the beginning, but before you worked with anybody, you just have to work with some clients. I'm not a fan of picking a niche out of the sky and just going with that. I really think it's important for for small businesses to work with a handful of clients first in the niche that they end up picking, so that they can validate that that niche works for me and I like working with them. So I think first thing out of the door is you just work with as many people as you can so you can collect some real world, world data to make these decisions for I think some of the big mistakes people make when it comes to sales. I mean, this is a really common thing people do. I think it's a mistake when you're selling expertise, the the kind of common practice is to talk to somebody, they tell you what they want, and then you say, Okay, great. Well, let me go think about this. Write you a proposal. I'll be back to you in a couple of days. Here's what I'm thinking. Here's the price. And it then creates this fact, if you're lucky, it creates a back and forth. Maybe they like it, maybe they want to change it, and then maybe they don't even pick you. Maybe they even ghost you. What a waste of time, energy, ultimately, money. So the thing I suggest to anybody selling services is to actually sell that first step. And what it does is it actually completely changes the relationship between you and the client in the default way that people do it, the client has all the power. And it's like, dance, monkey, dance, right? Like, do show me how great you are. Like, maybe I'll, maybe I'll pick you versus in this situation, it's a much more, you know, expert, authoritative role that you can take on. I use that, you know, that first sales call it, call it a fit call, really, that call is just to determine, can I even help you? What's your actual problem? Do you even know what your actual problem is, and is it something I feel really confident that I'm a good person to solve, and if in that call, and you know, I can usually do this in about 1015, minutes in that call, if I determine, yes, this is an ideal client for me. Yes, they have a problem that they know they have the I know I can solve. Then I tell them, Well, the next step is this paid engagement. I suggest you make it kind of a no brainer price, but it's that initial no brainer price, pay me something. Let's get down to the like, down in the details, and figure out, uncover the full challenge. Let me give you a plan, and then in that plan, I'll tell you what it looks like for me to solve your probe, your problem in full. And I find that, you know, if people come to you, this happens a lot. Somebody comes to you and says, I'm interested in your services. My budget is $5,000 I go, okay, okay, your budget's $5,000 well, we're gonna do this. This first step, you're gonna pay me a little bit of money. We're gonna do this. Step, I'm going to uncover all of the things that are actually problems for you. I'm going to tell you exactly what you need to do, but it's actually going to cost you $10,000 to solve that problem. You would be amazed at how much more money people have once they get total clarity around the solution and their problem, and in that process, they will see you as the authority and the expert. So they're much more willing to spend that money too, because they built some trust, which is, you just, you just can't build that much trust in a free proposal process. So that's like one of many, but like one of the big, I think, mistakes that most people make.



Patty Farmer:

I didn't see though, because I think a lot of times what entrepreneurs do is they get caught up in those conversations with thinking that they can solve people's problems with information. And, you know, it's kind of like, well, they can read books, listen to podcasts, go to Google. You know, whatever the case may be, they're not looking for more information. I think, as a matter of fact, people right now are on information overload. They have so much information. And I like to say all the time, I'm not in the information business, I'm in the transformation business. Vogel's in the information business, right? I love that, you know. So I really feel like, if you can really, and I think a lot of times, they don't have the clarity of what it is that is actually their problem, right? So when you're talking to them, yes, maybe for information, they're willing to pay, you know, XYZ amount of money. But when they realize, oh, like, you're going to actually get to the root of what my problem is and give me a solution, and then I'm going to get results on that, that's transformative, well, of course, they're going to pay more for that, right? You know, because they've already probably thrown dollars at things that haven't worked already, right? Yes, so well put. And you're, you're so right, we I think a big mistake that you just pointed out is that people think they just need to explain more. And what I've found is explaining falls on deaf ears. When you take people through an inquiry process of asking really thoughtful questions, they'll actually come to understand and, you know, integrate the information in their own brains by answering questions, and they'll see you as the expert when they're the one answering the questions. So I couldn't agree more, and I actually love that you emphasize the power of saying no. Like I love that to me, no is a complete sentence, right? You know me, and so how can entrepreneurs confidently, right, turn down opportunities that don't align with their goals without feeling like they're leaving money? Leaving money on the table. Because that's why they're afraid to niche too, right? They're like, Oh, I didn't want to leave money on the table. But I actually think that the more times that you say no is the more times that you can say yes to the right fit clients. Because I know that you said something about it earlier, and I know for me, in the beginning, like you said, when you're working with different people. I literally got really, really clear about what brings me joy and feeds my soul, and I only want to work with clients that bring me joy and feed my soul. Like, that's it. It's a deal breaker. Like, you know, and I don't know about you, but how would you ever talk to somebody and, like, literally, they haven't. You haven't even got to the anything yet. And like, the hair on your arms, except you're like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to roll up my sleeves. I want to get in. Want to get into business. I know I can help them, and they haven't even told me anything yet, but I already know, right? You know? And so I think that we get to a point in our business, as we become more successful, where we get to actually choose our clients, not really, and I think that's really it. So that's really where the power of being able to say no is right, because we only have so much time, so every time I say no, I'm saying yes to another opportunity. So I think that they're not very confident about that because they're worried about leaving money on the table. So what do you think of that? Well,



Pia Silva:

I mean, you just described beautifully, like, really the opportunity cost of saying yes, you know, every time you say yes to a client who is not a perfect fit, who is going to take more of your energy because they're not exactly who you work with, who maybe doesn't fit into your existing process. So you're going to have to reinvent the wheel, like I was talking about earlier. You're going to spend a lot of time and energy working with that client, time and energy that could have been invested into finding and more of the right clients, marketing yourself more whatever it is, and so you're actually foregoing those better clients. And to me, I always call that like Off, off brand client for cash. Like, that's cash now, but there's no longevity. There's no long term value in that cash and pay everyone's got to pay bills. And I have taken fast cash clients, many of them at times in my business, because there are moments when you need to make some cash right now, but as long as you see it as a fast cash engagement. But that long term, this is not something I want to be doing. I want to only be working with clients that are furthering my expertise in my niche, for allowing me to practice my process again and again and make it even tighter, even stronger, allow me to build my expertise, nuanced expertise in this space even more like all of that is building long term value for your business. That's where the profit is. That's where the freedom is. Is into the future. So I think I get that fear, and I think in the beginning it's it's like when you don't have tons of demand, I can completely understand it, as long as you don't get into the habit of that, so that when you do have demand, you're still saying yes to things that are not really a perfect fit. You've got to change your mindset and change your habit of thinking to build a business you actually enjoy, to your point, that's full of clients that really like light you up



Patty Farmer:

Totally. And I know that you have this four stage formula that you have for a thriving business. So which stage do most entrepreneurs struggle with? Well, tell us the four stages first, which stage? Yeah,



Pia Silva:

I'm actually not sure what you're referencing, what is it that



Patty Farmer:

I've been like watching and your podcast, and you know, you talk a lot about, like, the 5025 25 formula, yeah, no, and how pricing is a sticking point, yeah. So could you explain the formula and how its owners really with scalability and the freedom that they actually really want?



Pia Silva:

Yeah, absolutely. So I developed the 5025, 25 formula for myself when I was making lots of money and still feeling really stressed out, because I thought lots of cash in my bank would make me feel better, and it didn't, because I still was always one, feeling like I wasn't ahead of the game. I was always wondering, Where's my next client going to come from? Maybe I'll never get a client again. I mean, I literally had panicky thoughts like that, so I and also felt like I always had to take clients when they came to me, because who knows when the next drought might be? And I realized that it's because I was chasing more which is not a number more money is you'll never get to more money. More Money is always just beyond what you have. So what I did instead was I sat down and I looked at, you know, what do I need? Like, how much does my business actually cost? How much does my life actually cost, and how much money do I need for taxes? What is that top line number that I need to pay for this life that I have? And once I found that number, I realized, okay, I need to make that money, not in all of my working hours, because my business needs me. My business needs me to do business development and marketing and go like do all the things that create demand, to find the clients. And also, I didn't build a business to work 52 weeks a year. I built a business to have freedom and flexibility. So I came up with this formula that says you need to make the total revenue, you need to support your business, your life and your taxes in 50% of your working hours or less. I calculate that just very plainly as 80 hours a month, right? Like 240 hour work weeks. And so it becomes a very simple formula. If you know how long a project a client takes, then you can figure out exactly how much money you would make if you were working with paying clients 80 hours, a month or less. And so I use it as a as a North Star for for my students, and for any solopreneur who's trying to figure out how to like, how to price their services, plug your numbers into the freedom calculator, and it'll tell you, based on how long you take for a project and based on what you need, this is the price you have to charge for that. Now, most people, when they plug their number in, they're not charging that yet, and that's okay. What's important is that you know what that number is, so then you can go through the steps of figuring out, okay, how can I take what I'm charging 5000 for? That's when I did this. I figured out I'm charging 5000 and I need to be charging 10. What can I do to get this price from five to 10? I spent the next six months with that 10 number on my mind, doing all these little tweaks when I got it to 10 within six months, because I had a really clear idea of why $10,000 for our two day intensive. Two of those a month gets me $20,000 I have two weeks left over every month, and that's where 5025 25 comes in. The other 20 fives are the last, you know, kind of equal the last two weeks. So you have a week for biz dev and a week flexible time. I call that your freedom time. You can take that time and go on vacation. If you can take that time and do a personal project, you could take that time and also do biz dev, because you want to get somewhere, you want to get there faster. But whatever it is, it's flex time. And I find that just having this really clear, neat formula that gives people clarity around their pricing, because it's different for everyone. I live in a very expensive New York City, you know, in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, my number is going to be different than somebody who lives in a small town where living expenses are dramatically lower. And it's really great to know what your number is, as opposed to pricing your stuff based on what you're seeing on the internet, where everybody lives in a different place and has a different need to create freedom. So that's what the price of freedom asked



Patty Farmer:

For me also, one of the things too, is, really, is, what's the lifestyle, right? You know, because I really remember that I see a lot of, I mean, I know I'm in marketing, but I see a lot of marketers, and they're kind of talking about and in their marketing, you know, they have jets and yachts and, like. People take, you know, 20 vacations a year, stuff. And, well, that's great. Well, that can be great, right? You know, the fact that matters. Not everybody wants that, though, I agree, right? You know? And so really, honestly, it's really like, what's the lifestyle that you want to lead, right? And so sometime in that number that you're talking about, when you're doing it, it could be okay. So this is how much it takes. But now you may be thinking, when do I want to kind of, to kind of up my lifestyle. Now, my kids are older, they're gone. I want to travel more, whatever the case may be, but it's really easy then to be able to punch that in there and go, Oh, okay, so now my life's gonna cost a little more. So you just gotta adjust the numbers. And I gotta tell you, math never lies, right? You know, math never lies and Exactly. And so it's really a good way. So I love that you actually have a formula. Because I feel like when you have a formula and a framework to do anything like it can't be us yourself, right? Exactly. So when you have a formula because the formula works, you just got to follow the formula, right? Yeah. So what about like agencies, like, how they approach these pricing conversations? Because, like, nobody wants to have a pricing conversation, right? So how can they approach pricing conversations that will educate their clients, like, on the value of their services, right? Because this, I feel like, will like you, you touched on it a little bit earlier, but it'll reduce that, like, resistance to higher rates, and it'll make you be able to confidently, like, close higher ticket deals, right? You know, because it's like you're saying they don't have clarity on what they need. And when you talk about the results that people are going to have, and you're really talking about possibilities, because they're not even thinking about those possibilities, so they're still trying to figure out how they're going to pay their bills, right? Or they think they need more information or knowledge, and they just don't implement right? We know that it's a lot of times it's about that, but when they're doing that, like, how can like, because you don't know what some of those things are that people have had. So how you know? Do you have some tips on how they can approach those pricing conversations to make it a little less painful and a little bit more productive?



Pia Silva:

Yeah, absolutely. I'm so you know, when I think of small agencies specifically, and that, you know, if you're a one or two person agency, you are, you are doing everything, so we have to be very protective of your time. So one of the things that I have loved is implementing package pricing that's on the website. So I'm a big fan of three prices. The middle package is kind of the your bread and butter. It's the one that most of your ideal clients are going to need. Honestly, you could run your whole business just doing that. I called the bullseye project. The Bullseye product that is like at a price point that you can sell over and over again for a process that is very repeatable, even if the work inside is very custom. And then you have a down sell and an upsell. And to your point, you want to frame these packages not with a list of deliverables. This is not about you get business cards in this one and you don't get business cards in this one. This is about what kind of client is this for, and what kind of outcome, what kind of transformation, what kind of results are they going are they getting and and that's it. I really recommend putting this on the site with some pricing, but kind of keeping it vague what exactly is inside, because it's going to be a little different for everybody. The reason that I recommend doing that first paid engagement, I call mine a brand shrink, but generally I call this like a lead product, like selling that first step is that's where we get down into the nitty gritties and understand exactly what this person needs. And then when we've done that work, we can say, Okay, you need this specific list of things, and that's my middle package. And so the reason that I find this is so effective is because most of the time when you speak to a prospect, a lot of people will say, Well, what's your budget? Which I hate, when people ask me that question. I'm like, how's my budget? You know, I Well, I have money. I don't know how what you're worth, right? About my value? Yeah, how relevant I have $0 for something like at a house, or decide I'm not spending any more than $100 on a pair of designer shoes. But if I see ones, I absolutely have to have all of them, what I've spent Absolutely, exactly. So that's so I find that, instead of asking their budget, you know, you have to know without a doubt, you know, I don't do projects for less than a certain amount of money. So I can put these prices on my website, right? Because I'm not, I'm not going to get out of bed for less than that. So why would I be secretive about that? And instead, I have these three prices, you know, on that initial fit call, I'll tell them. You know, our packages are whatever it is like right now, my packages are like 3040, and $60,000 but those are the prices. Most of my clients are the middle package. And we'll figure it out once we do the first engagement, right? Once we do that brand shrink. And guess what? The brand shrink is valuable all on its own. So it's not like when you do this first step with me, you have to upset, you know, you have to move on to the second part. A lot of people just do this first step with me, just to get the value and the plan and the strategy. So that gives them peace of mind. It allows them to engage with you, pay you something. But. But we also have told them what the prices are, so when they get to the bottom, they don't have sticker shock, and we haven't invested this time with someone who's like, oh, wow, I had no idea I have $5,000 and your package is $40,000 so I think it cuts through a lot of the BS, a lot of the noise, to have some pricing available already. It makes the conversation on a fit call, for sure, super easy and simple and and comfortable, because I really don't like that. I always found it very uncomfortable when they're like, Well, how much is it? It's like, well, it depends. What's your budget? Well, I don't know what my budget is, you know. And we're both dancing around this company, you know, hey, it's at least $10,000 so if that's, if that's, you know, if that's like a crazy number to you, let's find out right now, because I don't want to go through tons of conversations with you. If this is never gonna happen, totally makes sense.



Patty Farmer:

You know, something that happened with me one time I thought was super interesting. I was at this event, and I'll never forget it kind of goes, blends right in here. So the host of the event, and it was kind of a high end event too, right? We come in and sit, I'll never forget it, sitting on our thing where these little elephants, like a little elephant, kind of Squeezy little stress ball thing that was there. And I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. And so when she came out, you know, she kind of talked for a few minutes, whatever. And then she said, I bet you're all wondering what the elephant is for. And of course, we all were right. And she says, I know that the elephant in the room is, what am I going to sell you while you're here at this event? And she said that that's the elephant in the room. She says, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to do something I've never done before. I'm going to tell you the price right now so that you know, and then I'm going to spend the rest of the time that you're here telling you why you should pay, like, why you should do it, and what I can do for you. And I remember thinking, wow, that was really brave. Like, get your brave on. But I have to tell you, it was, like, amazing. And afterwards, I asked her, like, how did that work for you? She said, I had a 33% increase in sales because now they had time to call their husband and do whatever the thing is. And, God, it already knew the number. They were already thinking about, Oh, wow, she's going to do that. Oh yes, that's totally worth it right until they're ready to pull the trigger. And I thought, wow, that was really, like, phenomenal. So I gotta tell you that really for me, I was like, Oh, that was so good from a marketing point of view. I loved it. And then the second thing I want to say to that is, because I think sometimes people have a different personality, like that. Three choices that you said really makes me laugh, because I have to tell you, some people are something because of just a personality. So like, for example, you're right the middle one is the one right. It's like some people will say Our most popular, or whatever they're going to say. Sometimes the basic or economy one is because it really is about money. Like, sometimes it actually really is about money, and that's all they can afford to pay to get started. Otherwise they would. And then there are people like me. So I'm the type of person that, if this is your most popular one, and this is the one I already want to know, what's the Elite Package? What's the Premium Package? Right? I'm a premium girl. I'm an elite girl that is, like, who my personality is, I already want to know. So unless you tell me that there's something in there that I'm like, No, I don't need that, or whenever, like, I'm always going to go with the elite. So I think that I love what you said, but I also think that sometimes there's just people that are like, Oh no, I am just always going to be like the this person, right? Which I love, because most of those people are actually my clients stuff, though, so I think that is kind of interesting. So really, people don't really understand sometimes, when, especially this, what I love about this, no. Bs thing is, because there's no faking them out, right? You know what? I mean, they want to know. People really do want to know what an investment is, and not just money, it's they wanna know what the investment of time is. And really, I think that if you're saying that you're gonna provide a No BS solution, then they need a No BS call or talk. In the beginnings you get to the solution as well. So I love that you provide that. And I think you know, you have a formula, and this is the way you do it, and you're very open and you're transparent. And I think people love that too, in the world right now, where we live in a world where, you know, it used to be you couldn't believe what you hear, and now you can't even believe what you see. Sometimes, yeah, instead. So I think that people really love transformation, transparency. They want those things. And I really love the way that you are doing that. How do you feel about retainers, like, you know, we were talking about that. How do you feel about because I, I hear my clients all the time say that, well, I want this many clients worth this, but I really want to have this many people on retainer, and I want this and that, like, it's a magic word, because like people who pay retainer can't quit, like people who pay you retainers, they know they can quit.



Pia Silva:

Nailed it. Yeah, yeah. I really rail against retainers again, remembering that, like I'm speaking to very small service businesses, I think there's a place for retainers, like retainers generally can be great if you have a big company with employees who are servicing the retainers. And even then, we all know that agencies are constantly and that's what they think, yes, yes. But like when you're a big agency, they're constantly. Only firing and hiring people to, you know, based on whether they get kept on as the agency of record when you're a small business, I think retainers are basically like a false sense of security, where you are essentially an outsourced employee for a bunch of people who can fire you at any time, even if they have a contract. Contract doesn't matter. Someone can't pay you. They can't pay you. I mean, have you never chased an invoice before? Like it doesn't matter. So what it does? What the reason I think they're just like, ideally you get rid of them, is that if you think that you've got money coming in every month, you don't do the things you need to do to make sure you always know how to get and bring in new clients, not following the formula. No, you're just, you're just, you're kind of, you're kind of being a little lazy about it. And you're not being lazy in general because you're working hard, because retainer clients require more work, not less work, than projects,



Patty Farmer:

And usually more than what whatever the retainer was



Pia Silva:

Always more, always more. And even if it's not technically more in deliverables, it's more in terms of time and energy, because retainer clients expect to hear back from you. You know that they'll email you. They'll be like, hey, I need to talk to you really quickly. And you gotta hop too, because this is your livelihood, and you don't want to lose that retainer client. So it becomes this kind of like CO dependent thing for you're just co dependent on these, on these retainer clients. And worst part is that you aren't investing in your business, building your skills, building your marketing like knowing that you can get a client at any time. So the model that I built and I teach is, I'm one and done. You know, give me 40 grand. Let me do this project. It's done at 6pm and I don't have another client after that until I bring in another client. But I'm but my purpose of focusing on profitability with that formula is I don't need that many clients. So I don't need to have steady monthly income. In fact, I know a lot of people to your point, clients say, I just want, you know, steady, $10,000 really, I'd rather do like 340 $1,000 projects and none of any clients rest of the year. That's the kind of lifestyle I'm talking about. You have steady clients. You basically just have a job. Go get a job. It's easier, right? So I think if you can focus on profitability and project based work, and invest the time that you free up into building a marketing and an audience and demand, you'll have a lot more freedom that way, and you'll have a lot more control over your business, because, you know, I can always make money when I need it. I can always get clients. When people say they want steady income, it's because they want financial security. They want to feel like I know I have money coming in. Retainers ate it. You want to know money's coming in. You need to know how to make money whenever you want it, and that comes from market out



Patty Farmer:

That is it right there. That is, like the name of the game. I always like to say all the time, and I truly believe this with all my heart, it is just as easy to get a $40,000 client is to get a $5,000 just as easy. The question is, are you talking to the right people, right? And are you talking about the right things? Yeah, you know, I think that it's kind of like if you're just trying to offer them a band aid, versus the root of whatever their problem is, and giving them a solution that's repeatable over and over and over again, they're going to pay for that, you know, rather than just a band aid, right? You know, I think that's why people don't stay. I think that's why people are at the end, they're like, oh, I don't really feel like I was happy with that service, or whatever the case may be, because, again, you're just giving them information and a band aid rather than transformation and a solution. And so I love that when you when you have a framework that is a project, and at the end of this, it's done well, now you you have to do it like this is what you're saying that you're going to do, and then you do it like, you know? And so I really love that. I think it's like what you're saying, it's no, Bs, right? This is it hungry hand you. This is I just love that. And



Pia Silva:

I want to for like, listeners, because I have also encountered people who just put their price at $40,000 they don't have the skills, they don't have the experience, to deliver transformation. So, you know, you also need to be able to deliver on value. And I think that sometimes we talk these big numbers, and people like, I didn't start charging $40,000 for a two day intensive. I started by charging $5,000 for a two day intensive, right? I did so many of them that I made it six, and then seven, and then 10 and then 15. Like buying a value ladder? Yeah, I made I got myself to 40,000 as I perfected my process and built my confidence and and nailed my skills and up leveled my skills with every project. So I you know, when you are able to deliver then 100% it's easier to sell a $40,000 project than a 5000 project than a $5,000 project because



Patty Farmer:

They're spending $40,000 for somebody who says that they can get me these results and this transformation, yeah, in this amount of time, then pay less money and drag it on and be in a year container and blah, blah, blah, right? You know, I mean, like, and I tell that to people too. They're like, Oh, well, don't you have something like a. Yeah, I was like, Well, I don't know, do you want results now? Or do you want results nine months from now? You tell me, you know, what is it that



Pia Silva:

Good line? Yeah, I like that a lot,



Patty Farmer:

You know, so when you really think about it. So I know that you like to talk about, like, a new help businesses shrink those long, you know, term projects right into just days. Like, is that a two day thing? So how do you think agencies can restructure their offers so that they can deliver faster results without sacrificing value. Yeah.



Pia Silva:

I mean, when we started doing this, the impetus was just that my husband and I were like, you know, we're doing really great work, and it's getting watered down. It's draining us, because this is taking forever working with clients over months, they take forever to get back to us. You know, in that time, they ask their their boyfriend, or whatever, you know, their cousin, what their opinion is now they've got, they want to see it in a different way. And the work actually is suffering because it's it's dragging on too long. I think there's actually a cost to doing creative projects over long periods of time. It's too much. Too many cooks in the kitchen, too many outside opinions, and also everybody loses focus, because you have to keep coming back to this project after you're doing other stuff. So what I do is I do something I call chunk and stack. It's you put a project into the calendar. You know, we do these two day intensives. I mean, that's just as fast, I think, as you can do it. But we do the work ahead of time. We do the entire project ahead of time. It's almost completely finished by the time we do this two day intensive. So I put that into my calendar. Here's the intensive. Here are the days we're going to do the project, and we don't work on another client until that project is done. So I chunk them and then I stack them, and that means in between projects, I don't have any clients to work with. I don't have anyone's answer to Yeah. And so what that allows me to do? We still are doing, you know, this same level of work. In fact, I would say the work is even better, because we're completely concentrating on just this one client. We're completely immersed in it. We're not losing efficiency by task switching, right? We're just doing this project till it's done, and then we have the client's full attention, so we're not losing the client's attention either, right? Have you ever worked with a client over time and and then something happens, and they go dark. You know, I had a client once their basement flooded, and then I didn't hear from them, and I don't know what's going on with this project, and they resurface, and it's like, sorry, I had this emergency. All of these things are sucking time and profit from your business. So by shrinking it, you're going to be able to actually deliver at a higher value for you and for them,



Patty Farmer:

People don't really realize sometimes how much work goes into it the before, right? You know? Because, like, I know that I do a lot of VIP days, and yeah, like, oh, so if I do these VIP days this many hours, whether it's a one day VIP day, or they do it over two days, whatever. But it's not like we just show up and they tell us and we just, you know, do it, right? We do work before right? Now, there's work before that, right? The VIP day is the day that we're delivering it to them. We're doing more work than that, right? You know. So I love, you know, when you're talking about that, because I think sometimes when people hear about that, they'll say, oh, I want to do VIP days, or I want to do these intensive or I want to do these, because it's only two days. Like, well, not really, right, you know, but like, what you're saying, if you're don't, if you niche down and you're not trying to do whatever, then you don't have to do as much research and all this stuff to do all that, because you're doing right repeatable business. So I love that model that you're saying, because you already have expertise in this, right? And so consequently, when you are doing those two getting intensive, you don't have to do as much of that, because you've already done it over and over and over and have already have transformative results for many, many clients before that, right? You know, so Exactly. That is a great way to do it



Pia Silva:

Exactly. And also in this intensive model, you know, the first year we did intensives, we did the most intensives that year because we were charging the least. And, you know, they were smaller projects at that time. Obviously, we're not doing the exact same project for 40 that we were for five. But in that year we did, you know, 100 brands. I mean, we did so many. We were doing a few a week. Imagine how quickly we were able to perfect this process. We were just doing it over and over and over again. I mean, that's that is like to me. That's the fast track to expertise, is just getting your reps in. And that's what I think intensives allows you to do.



Patty Farmer:

No, I think that makes sense. So I love this, you know, the impatient entrepreneur, because we know that is exactly what they are now. So as you're continuing, like you said, right? You know, as you're continuing to help, you know, entrepreneurs and agencies transform their business, so be it. What excites you the most about the future of this industry, and how do you see your work evolving to meet the new challenges that are happening, because things are changing in our world all the time. You know, I hear over and over again that, you know, 2024 was really a year where people had a lot of pivoting. They did, I mean, it's really kind of interesting. They kind of did that through the pandemic. And then here we fast forward 2024 seemed like it was a year that people were pivoting a lot. So. Excites you, and where do you see the changes and how your work is going to evolve? What's exciting for you? What's next? Yeah,



Pia Silva:

I mean, what's exciting for me is that this whole AI revolution is like forcing people to do what I have been trying to get them to already do, which is, you got to level up your strategic thinking, you know, you got to level up your communication. And I do think that AI is going to bump a whole, a whole level of people out of jobs, because it is really powerful. I use it all the time, but it can't do the high level thinking, you know, crap in, crap out. So, like, I think that this model, I have noticed that this model is only more important now, and that you can't get away with doing low level work, because the robots can do the low level work. So we have to be transforming into these higher level advisory expert leading the client with solutions and transformations. We must, you must do that if you want to survive in in like, what's coming, which I think is a really beautiful thing, because for me, at least, like, the journey I had to go on, and I continue to be on, to grow into be able to constantly talk about these things, and be able to listen to somebody's business issues and go, okay, like once I asked the right questions, and then get to the answer, Be like, it's obvious to me what you need to do. Like, that took a lot of practice, but that's an incredibly fulfilling thing to do, because that's, you know, internal growth, yeah. And it feels, it feels great, because it's adding true value to people, as opposed to, again, like, kind of this more, like, hourly, freelance type of work, which there's nothing wrong with it. It's just that those people need, if they want to continue to work on their own, they're going to need to build these skills. If they want to, like I said, survive, because AI will take over a lot of those low level jobs. So I think it's, you know, it's going to be tough for some people, but it's also really exciting. It's going to push them to level up in these ways. And I think that ultimately that will be really impactful for their lives and in everybody else's because we're all kind of grow together.



Patty Farmer:

Oh, I know. Like, people say, Oh, I think AI is going to put people out of business. I'm like, No, AI is going to put people out of business that don't embrace AI. That show is, yeah, you know, I'm an expert in AI. I'm in marketing. It's something I really, really love and stuff there. So I do think it is really, really important. So I have to say via, I love your book, I love your podcast, right? So for those of you that are listening or watching the buttons right below, so you can just get them, check it out. But she also came with a gift, so in case you really want to so tell everybody about your free audio,



Pia Silva:

Yeah, well, I actually just recently put my I took the exclusive rights back from Amazon on my audiobook so you can, you can buy it on Audible if you want. But I also put it on a private feed, just to gift on a few podcasts like this one. So I put it at noBSagencies.com/m3 so just noBSagencies.com/m3 and you can grab the audio copy of my book as a gift, and only because we discussed it. Anybody who's also interested in getting that price to freedom calculator, you can go to no BS agencies.com backslash price, and you can grab that calculator like plug in a few numbers, and it'll spit out the price that you need to charge.



Patty Farmer:

That is awesome and so generous of you. So thanks so much. Thank you. So what is the best way for people to connect with you? I know that they are going to want to connect with you, so what is the best way for them to do that? But yeah,



Pia Silva:

I mean, come follow me on Instagram. I'm at Pia loves your biz. B, I Z on Instagram, and I'm Pia Silva on LinkedIn. Those are kind of the two places I really hang out.



Patty Farmer:

That's awesome. We'll have all those links below as well. So Pia, thank you so much for being here with me. I just really appreciate it. I just love like, the change and like, I think people, I love it when people just shake up. Like, you know what everybody's just been thinking, oh yeah, this is what we have to do. This what we have to do. No, we don't have to do it that way, right? You know what? We can shake it up. I love it. And I kind of love the whole badass, your brand, and the No, Bs, it's like, I love it. And I really feel like, you know your formula, what you're sharing, is a way that I think most people don't think about it, and would never have thought that they could, but I think it gives them more options. And I really like that, that you're so trans formational, but also transparent, right? So I think that is really wonderful. And I appreciate you so much coming on here and sharing and being so generous, not just with your brilliance, but with your gifts and everything. So I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for being here with me today. With me today.



Pia Silva:

You are so so kind patty. Thank you so so much. And I've really enjoyed this conversation. I love talking to you know, just like brilliant marketing people like you, because I feel like we're speaking the same language, and I feel like we can almost finish each other's sentences. So it's a real pleasure. Thank you.



Patty Farmer:

Thank you. And to my audience. Yes, if you enjoyed today's episode, and I am sure that you did, please like subscribe and review the podcast on your favorite listening platform. And if you haven't checked out our sister magazine, the marketing media Money Magazine, Grab Your Free Copy at m3digitalmag.com so again, thank you so much. Thank you. Pia, thank you so much for everybody for listening. If you guys have a great week, we'll see you next week. Bye. Now.