Nov. 6, 2024

Navigating FINTRAC Compliance in the Mortgage Sector

Navigating FINTRAC Compliance in the Mortgage Sector

As the mortgage sector navigates new FINTRAC regulatory requirements, dive into unique insights from the ReallyTrusted team, with insights from Catagay Sen and Taylor Cameron. With the recent expansion of FINTRAC oversight to mortgage brokers, both professionals share critical observations on challenges faced by designated individuals and principal brokers in implementing compliance measures. Taylor’s experience speaking to new and potential clients’ sheds light on common misconceptions, while Catagay offers a deep dive into the evolving, policy-specific concerns mortgage brokerages encounter. Together, they discuss the ways ReallyTrusted is helping client’s approach FINTRAC compliance with clarity and confidence, helping ensure these new requirements are met effectively.

This episode offers an essential look at the early days of FINTRAC’s regulations in the mortgage sector, uncovering valuable insights for brokerages looking to stay compliant and prepared.

Key Takeaways:

- Many mortgage brokerages face challenges understanding their role under FINTRAC regulations.

- Designated individuals often need help crafting policies tailored to new compliance standards.

- Misunderstandings are common around what data must be recorded and reported.

- Brokerages frequently underestimate the time and resources required for full compliance.

- ReallyTrusted provides tailored programs to help brokerages meet compliance requirements efficiently.

Connect with Greg and Really Trusted at:

https://reallytrusted.com/

https://www.facebook.com/ReallyTrusted/

Thanks for listening

Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page.

Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!

Subscribe to the podcast

If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.

Leave us an Apple Podcasts review

Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.

#FINTRAC #MortgageCompliance #RealEstateCompliance #RegulatoryStandards #ReallyTrusted #ComplianceManagement #BrokerageCompliance #KnowYourCompliance #FINTRACExpress

Transcript
Greg Dent:

All right, welcome to another episode of The Know Your



Greg Dent:

Compliance podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. Today. I'm



Greg Dent:

going to be interviewing Cagatay Sen from the really trusted



Greg Dent:

team. He's our FINTRAC Express program lead, and Taylor



Greg Dent:

Cameron, who's our manager of business development. And the



Greg Dent:

topic I wanted to bat around today is something that we



Greg Dent:

actually are uniquely positioned to talk about, and that's



Greg Dent:

specifically how things are going in the mortgage sector in



Greg Dent:

the first three ish weeks now, depending on when you're



Greg Dent:

listening to this of their quote coverage under the fin track,



Greg Dent:

regs. So let me kind of give us give our audience a bit of



Greg Dent:

framing here, Taylor spends most of her day most weeks, chatting



Greg Dent:

with potential clients, people who have realized that they need



Greg Dent:

to know more about FINTRAC. They reporting entities across both



Greg Dent:

the real estate and the mortgage sectors primarily, and develops



Greg Dent:

some interesting insights around their beliefs at that stage,



Greg Dent:

chat. I spends most of his life chatting with brokerages who



Greg Dent:

have chosen to hire us, and gets really granular on their fin



Greg Dent:

track compliance policies. And so what I was hoping to bring to



Greg Dent:

our audience today is the insights that Taylor and Chad I



Greg Dent:

have brought or have gleaned through the last three Well,



Greg Dent:

actually, we've been we launched this kind of mostly about a



Greg Dent:

month ago. Now today's date is November 1, but we launched. So



Greg Dent:

we launched this the big roughly the beginning of October, where



Greg Dent:

we really started talking with a lot of brokerages specific



Greg Dent:

around their policies. So with all of that long intro, let's



Greg Dent:

get into it. Taylor, let's start with you. Can you give me three,



Greg Dent:

four, maybe five, things that you've observed as the feedback



Greg Dent:

that mortgage brokerages, the designated individuals,



Greg Dent:

principal brokers, depending on how you want to call them, what



Greg Dent:

they're seeing as the challenges in their fin track compliance



Greg Dent:

programs?



Taylor Cameron:

Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I don't



Taylor Cameron:

even know if we can say that they're seeing it, or rather,



Taylor Cameron:

what I'm seeing, because I don't. I think we, I think we've



Taylor Cameron:

got two populations. I think we've got the the population



Taylor Cameron:

that doesn't know what they don't know. And then as as we're



Taylor Cameron:

moving through this, we have the population that knows there's a



Taylor Cameron:

lot they don't know. So I feel like some of the bigger things,



Taylor Cameron:

I think, that I'm seeing just as a general as a whole, is that we



Taylor Cameron:

have a lot of individual brokers going in and finding their own



Taylor Cameron:

IDD software that works for them individually, and they're not



Taylor Cameron:

referencing back to our Di's and our principal brokers to find



Taylor Cameron:

out what is actually indicated as what we're using in our



Taylor Cameron:

policy and procedure manuals. So that's a big piece. I feel like



Taylor Cameron:

a lot of we've got a lot of designated individuals waiting



Taylor Cameron:

for templates to come from associations. And, I mean, we



Taylor Cameron:

can certainly dive into that topic a little more. Yeah, I



Taylor Cameron:

think



Greg Dent:

that's worth coming back to for sure. Yeah, yeah,



Greg Dent:

yeah.



Taylor Cameron:

What are some other things here? And I think



Taylor Cameron:

the other common thread is that we are hearing, I'm a small



Taylor Cameron:

brokerage. All of my clients are repeat. They're all low risk.



Taylor Cameron:

I've dealt with them for years and or that I'm so small that,



Taylor Cameron:

you know what I really, you know, I don't really need to do.



Taylor Cameron:

This is another unique and interesting perspective in the



Taylor Cameron:

industry. So, I mean, those are some of the things that come top



Taylor Cameron:

of mind.



Greg Dent:

Okay, so the overarching things I think are,



Greg Dent:

are generally a lack of, perhaps frontline staff seeing IDV as



Greg Dent:

being the entirety or the bulk of their obligations or and



Greg Dent:

whether that's true or not, as a conversation we'll have in a



Greg Dent:

second, but, but really being focused on that IDV part di is



Greg Dent:

thinking that Maybe templates are going to solve this for



Greg Dent:

them, and then going back to the frontline staff. Well, actually,



Greg Dent:

this is kind of where frontline staff and Di's need to get on



Greg Dent:

the same page. Is what is a low risk individual and what is risk



Greg Dent:

and how is risk identified?



Taylor Cameron:

Okay? And it's not a tech box determination,



Taylor Cameron:

right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah,



Greg Dent:

yeah, no, and we'll sorry. We'll come back to that.



Greg Dent:

I want to open up the conversation to chat. I see what



Greg Dent:

he's seeing on the other side, people who have chosen to engage



Greg Dent:

with us for either of the two reasons Taylor has identified,



Greg Dent:

maybe they know they have a problem, they need some help, or



Greg Dent:

they don't know they have a problem, but they need some



Greg Dent:

help. What are you seeing in those in those meetings, when



Greg Dent:

you're doing that consult, when you're creating the policy



Greg Dent:

manuals, where are you finding the the real challenges that the



Greg Dent:

eyes and brokerages are facing?



Cagatay Sen:

Right? Yes, so I've had several meetings now, and



Cagatay Sen:

one of the issues. That I've seen pop up regularly is that



Cagatay Sen:

these guys, up until now, have been used to having the lenders



Cagatay Sen:

do all the pretty much, you know, burdensome work of ID



Cagatay Sen:

verification, etc, ensuring that the proper controls were in



Cagatay Sen:

place to properly identify the clients things like that, and



Cagatay Sen:

they never touched based on any client funds, either. They see



Cagatay Sen:

they do not do that. So one of the issues now that with the



Cagatay Sen:

financial competition coming to play as of october 11, is that



Cagatay Sen:

they are a bit nervous as to how they're going to go through this



Cagatay Sen:

process, because they are the front line now to do this, I



Cagatay Sen:

mean, the assurance that I try to give them naturally is that



Cagatay Sen:

we as really trusted, are here to assist them along the way



Cagatay Sen:

from our systems that are going to be in place for the ID



Cagatay Sen:

verification, etc. And that's where Taylor, I agree with you,



Cagatay Sen:

some have already started to, in the past, utilize some IDV third



Cagatay Sen:

party applications, but I always assist them that you know you



Cagatay Sen:

because the question pops up sometimes that they also asked



Cagatay Sen:

whether they need another application for this purpose. I



Cagatay Sen:

said you don't, because when you sign up for our program, you're



Cagatay Sen:

getting full coverage as to the systematic capabilities of the



Cagatay Sen:

app, etc. So all the ID verification, remote ID



Cagatay Sen:

verification applications are going to be in place, and that's



Cagatay Sen:

going to be covered in respect of your sanction is controlled,



Cagatay Sen:

peppers, controls, etc. We're going to ensure that you know



Cagatay Sen:

your database is going to be covered respect your high risk



Cagatay Sen:

of monitoring obligations, your adverse media control, which



Cagatay Sen:

will come into play, which, you know, really gives them a good



Cagatay Sen:

insight into what we can do for them, etc. And the training



Cagatay Sen:

aspect is very exciting for them, I see, especially they



Cagatay Sen:

want to have this as soon as possible training, because they



Cagatay Sen:

want to create that much shift in mindset for their



Cagatay Sen:

underwriters, their you know, associates, etc. We're going to



Cagatay Sen:

be dealing with the client information, the files, etc.



Cagatay Sen:

They want to understand what those indicators are going to



Cagatay Sen:

be. How do you risk great clients? Especially this is



Cagatay Sen:

something that all. I also underline many times that it's



Cagatay Sen:

okay to risking your clients as high as clients, because if you



Cagatay Sen:

don't in the future, and you have a possible field track



Cagatay Sen:

examination coming through, and they identify something, where



Cagatay Sen:

you they go in the field that should have been read as a high



Cagatay Sen:

risk client, then you're going to be in trouble. So I am going,



Cagatay Sen:

I'm reiterating throughout these meetings that risk rating your



Cagatay Sen:

clients is high risk is okay, and it's important for you. And



Cagatay Sen:

I also give them the example that you know, there's some



Cagatay Sen:

perception that if you risk a high risk client, then somehow



Cagatay Sen:

regulator authorities are going to know about this, etc, and



Cagatay Sen:

they're going to flag their clients and actually may pick,



Cagatay Sen:

carry out further orders and things like that. Is not the



Cagatay Sen:

case in terms, of course, but it is to ensure that, you know, you



Cagatay Sen:

have the proper controls in place to keep that business



Cagatay Sen:

relationship, you know, and under taps throughout that time.



Cagatay Sen:

Yeah.



Greg Dent:

No, that's interesting. So if I can unpack



Greg Dent:

what, what I've just heard you say that I think was really



Greg Dent:

interesting is kind of two pieces there. One, a lot of



Greg Dent:

these mortgage entities were already aware of some of the



Greg Dent:

anti money laundering stuff because of their upstream



Greg Dent:

relationships, and had been relying on those upstream



Greg Dent:

relationships. Well, relying is too strong word. Actually, just



Greg Dent:

knew they could ignore that part of the world because of those



Greg Dent:

upstream relationships, and they were right and there. But the



Greg Dent:

result of that, and this is where I'm particularly



Greg Dent:

interested to hear this, is they're now they realize they



Greg Dent:

have these obligations. They're taking them very seriously.



Greg Dent:

Their excitement around training is amazing and awesome, and so



Greg Dent:

wonderful to see is very refreshing, in fact. But they



Greg Dent:

they're not necessarily understanding all of the the



Greg Dent:

specific part around this risk, risk rating clients, and that's



Greg Dent:

something Taylor touched on as well. This this challenge that



Greg Dent:

frontline staff in particular have around appropriately risk



Greg Dent:

rating clients, and realizing that that's not a bad thing, and



Greg Dent:

realizing that that's actually what you want, and and realizing



Greg Dent:

that just because you know them doesn't mean they're low risk,



Greg Dent:

which is something you know, we've been we've been struggling



Greg Dent:

with as a company, with our with our real estate brokerages for



Greg Dent:

years. In fact, it's not an uncommon conversation to be



Greg Dent:

having. In fact, I had this conversation the beginning of



Greg Dent:

this week when I was presenting one of our brokerage partners



Greg Dent:

where that's exactly what the agent said, and I had to walk



Greg Dent:

them through how the flaws in their thinking on that. So no,



Greg Dent:

that's interesting, and really kind of appreciate the feedback



Greg Dent:

on that. So let's pick through. Let's start at the beginning.



Greg Dent:

There's kind of four or five areas there that I've heard



Greg Dent:

everybody kind of talk about. So let's talk about this IDV thing.



Greg Dent:

Taylor, you brought this up as as something that we're seeing



Greg Dent:

kind of a fragmented use of IDV solutions is perhaps the



Greg Dent:

language there and chat. I You brought this up as you know,



Greg Dent:

what other programs are people going to have to use? So what's



Greg Dent:

the like? I mean, obviously I know the answer to this, but I



Greg Dent:

don't want to just battle on Chad. I What is your view?



Greg Dent:

You're the you're the fin track program expert, you guys, you're



Greg Dent:

the one doing the consults. Is it okay to be using various IDV



Greg Dent:

solutions? Do? Is that what we want to encourage? We want to



Greg Dent:

discourage that. What would your view be on that?



Cagatay Sen:

Well, I mean, as really trusted, we're providing



Cagatay Sen:

a, you know, turnkey solution in respect to the establishing the



Cagatay Sen:

compliance program, and which is not necessarily just, you know,



Cagatay Sen:

preparing the documentation and placing in a folder and handing



Cagatay Sen:

it over to the client. We're ensuring that with the



Cagatay Sen:

systematic tools in place as well. Hence the IDV solution



Cagatay Sen:

which we're providing, we're giving a complete program and



Cagatay Sen:

where they're able to utilize the app with the convenience of



Cagatay Sen:

having available on their forms, etc, and ensuring that, you



Cagatay Sen:

know, they trust us in the properly you know, carrying out



Cagatay Sen:

those controls in the background for our systematic databases,



Cagatay Sen:

and also the added the you know, comfort of carrying out the



Cagatay Sen:

sanctions control Purpose controls. Which have we in place



Cagatay Sen:

as well, etc. So I definitely underlie the message when I



Cagatay Sen:

really think, when I received a question like this, is, you



Cagatay Sen:

don't need any other solution. You might have done so in the



Cagatay Sen:

past for any other purpose, just to have the completed some of



Cagatay Sen:

your mortgage loan records. Perhaps, I don't know that would



Cagatay Sen:

have been your own choice at that time, but as you're signing



Cagatay Sen:

with really trusted and you're signing for the fin track



Cagatay Sen:

Express program, you have to be trusting us and ensuring that



Cagatay Sen:

you know we do the proper thing for you guys, which is the



Cagatay Sen:

documentation, the training modules, the whole IRT app



Cagatay Sen:

solution, which we provide and plus, on the other hand, for



Cagatay Sen:

your high risk clients, the address media controls and



Cagatay Sen:

monitoring tools that we provide for you in a monthly basis, etc.



Cagatay Sen:

Plus, I also underlined the fact that, for example, in a possible



Cagatay Sen:

future control examination when, if and when they receive such



Cagatay Sen:

requests for information in the form of an E car, a podcast, a



Cagatay Sen:

subject we covered in the past? Yeah, we are always here to



Cagatay Sen:

assist them as well, so that they are assured that you know



Cagatay Sen:

they're properly discussing those questions, so that Finch



Cagatay Sen:

doesn't necessarily need to go into any further detail, or



Cagatay Sen:

might actually leave it at that at that point.



Greg Dent:

Yeah, so what I'm hearing you say, and I think I'm



Greg Dent:

going to bring Taylor into this in a second, but what I'm



Greg Dent:

hearing you say is that the the importance of having IDV is



Greg Dent:

actually just a small part of that frontline staff, and the



Greg Dent:

real kind of key about what we're offering is, in fact, the



Greg Dent:

integration of all of the thinking into one platform in a



Greg Dent:

meaningful way. Taylor, is that ringing true to the people



Greg Dent:

you're talking with? Is that? Is that what you're hearing, what



Greg Dent:

are the benefits that you're seeing that maybe chat I hasn't



Greg Dent:

touched on and or what are the drawbacks to that approach? I



Greg Dent:

suppose? Yeah, I



Taylor Cameron:

think really important to talk about the



Taylor Cameron:

drawbacks too. So I agree with everything that Chad has said,



Taylor Cameron:

but one of the drawbacks in using multiple streams of an IDV



Taylor Cameron:

is that, how are you then providing consistency in the way



Taylor Cameron:

that we are doing risk determinations? If we're using



Taylor Cameron:

two different programs, they might be, you know, the value



Taylor Cameron:

systems might be different or off. So trying to get a



Taylor Cameron:

continuity across those systems and then being able to document



Taylor Cameron:

it, I think you're going to run into a big challenge when it



Taylor Cameron:

comes to an audit and the questions that are going to be



Taylor Cameron:

asked of you, and how these two different groups, if there's two



Taylor Cameron:

different softwares, how these two different groups are aligned



Taylor Cameron:

in doing those risk determinations. So I'd say



Taylor Cameron:

that's a challenge. And again, I just think it comes back to



Taylor Cameron:

education. I don't think that we are fully grasping yet in the



Taylor Cameron:

mortgage industry, what FINTRAC is really about, and that there



Taylor Cameron:

has to be a continuity across all of your pillars, that



Taylor Cameron:

whatever you have done in terms of risk determinations is how



Taylor Cameron:

and tied into, sorry, you want to, I can see, well, I



Greg Dent:

just want to jump in, because you mentioned pillars,



Greg Dent:

and I some of our pillars, and I some of our audience may or may



Greg Dent:

not be familiar with the concept. So let's just unpack



Greg Dent:

that for a second, if you would just just walk people through



Greg Dent:

that the five what



Taylor Cameron:

we call the five pillars. Yeah, so you know the



Taylor Cameron:

five pillars and what a program should entail as a documented



Taylor Cameron:

compliance officer, kind of easy, but there are some



Taylor Cameron:

specific traits and skills that you. Going to want to see in the



Taylor Cameron:

person that you put forward is that, because there has to be



Taylor Cameron:

enough AML knowledge to be able to properly roll that out and a



Taylor Cameron:

few other things. And we've got a great training program on that



Taylor Cameron:

and webinar that you can join. And don't know when the next



Taylor Cameron:

date is Greg, but sure, we'll roll that out again. You need to



Taylor Cameron:

have a documented policy and procedure segment, documenting



Taylor Cameron:

everything that you say you're going to do, and then procedures



Taylor Cameron:

allocated to each of those two areas. So we have two in our



Taylor Cameron:

program. We have two procedure manuals. One is going to be for



Taylor Cameron:

our front facing licensees. Front facing, I mean client



Taylor Cameron:

facing licensees. And then one we have on the back end, which



Taylor Cameron:

supports all of our compliance or admin staff on the back end,



Taylor Cameron:

any anyone touching administrative documentation for



Taylor Cameron:

vendor Act. The other pillar then becomes training. And then



Taylor Cameron:

we have the effectiveness review, which comes around every



Taylor Cameron:

two years. I think I've hit that right. We've got the compliance



Taylor Cameron:

officer your documented policies, training,



Taylor Cameron:

effectiveness review and risk. No,



Greg Dent:

there you go. Yeah, that's the one you're missing.



Greg Dent:

What you've just walked people through, in fact, is crucial to



Greg Dent:

a business's opera, ability to have a complete compliance



Greg Dent:

program, right? And, and what you've just walked people



Greg Dent:

through, whether, whether, and it's subtle, but so let me kind



Greg Dent:

of delve into this exactly. Touches on this, next two things



Greg Dent:

that you had identified in the opening to this, which was a



Greg Dent:

templates don't really work and or create a bunch of additional



Greg Dent:

challenges. And the the other thing you had talked about was



Greg Dent:

this idea of of risk rating your clients, and the importance of



Greg Dent:

risk rating your clients. And so what you've just highlighted for



Greg Dent:

me is is both of those things, because, on the one hand, it's



Greg Dent:

basically impossible for you to have a consistent risk rating



Greg Dent:

process if you're using several different methods of creating



Greg Dent:

information records, client information records, and now I



Greg Dent:

should put a bit of an asterisk in there. Our view of client



Greg Dent:

information records are that IDV are a small part, or are a part



Greg Dent:

of that client information record, and it's important to do



Greg Dent:

your IDE verification properly, no question. But we've bundled



Greg Dent:

it into the rest of the client information record, because



Greg Dent:

that's generally how people are engaging with their clients. And



Greg Dent:

the beauty of that is, if I can go back to the other thing



Greg Dent:

you've said, which is the templates and the importance of



Greg Dent:

weaving it all together is that when we weave that together



Greg Dent:

operationally, we can then have a very clear answer to what is a



Greg Dent:

low risk client. And you just can't do that. If you're picking



Greg Dent:

somebody else's manual up and using it as your own, it just



Greg Dent:

doesn't work. And I think that's the, that's the crux of one of



Greg Dent:

the things that I've heard, like both of you say that that is



Greg Dent:

the, and we spend a lot of time talking about this as a business



Greg Dent:

with a lot of different people, is the specificity of your



Greg Dent:

compliance program for your business is really, really



Greg Dent:

important. Yeah,



Cagatay Sen:

and Greg, to add to that point, I am very happy that



Cagatay Sen:

we have a lot of buy in from these mortgage brokers and



Cagatay Sen:

companies, etc, in respect of the development of the



Cagatay Sen:

compliance program. Of course, the first step being that when I



Cagatay Sen:

attain the appropriate information regarding their



Cagatay Sen:

business and further insight into the risk, etc. I am



Cagatay Sen:

responsible for the establishment of the



Cagatay Sen:

documentation. And when I share the draft manuals, it's not just



Cagatay Sen:

merely, oh, thank you. Let's move on. Kind of thing they want



Cagatay Sen:

to ensure that you know it properly reflects the ongoing



Cagatay Sen:

business model that they have. Ensure that you know that the



Cagatay Sen:

all the information which is in the documentation is properly



Cagatay Sen:

and easily understood by the staff, we're going to be able to



Cagatay Sen:

revert to that when the time comes, etc. So I'm very happy



Cagatay Sen:

that there, these guys are putting a lot of buy in into the



Cagatay Sen:

development of these documentation just not merely



Cagatay Sen:

accepting them because it's a requirement of the French leg



Cagatay Sen:

obligations kind of thing? Yeah,



Greg Dent:

yeah. No, it is. And that's, that's one of the things



Greg Dent:

I first, my first bit of feedback to you was that you're



Greg Dent:

absolutely right. Like it's been, it's been really nice to



Greg Dent:

see how and I think it comes from being in a business where



Greg Dent:

there was already a culture of compliance. Compliance as a



Greg Dent:

concept isn't new to the mortgage sector. There are



Greg Dent:

there's lots of check boxes and signed forms and things that



Greg Dent:

need to happen for you to be able to process a mortgage deal.



Greg Dent:

And I think that is more true for mortgage entities. Then it



Greg Dent:

historically has been, necessarily, for the real estate



Greg Dent:

sector. And we could, we could talk about that, and that's a



Greg Dent:

whole host of problems on the real estate side of things. So



Greg Dent:

kind of what's got side of the scope of today's conversation.



Greg Dent:

But certainly, and I think what you've just highlighted for me



Greg Dent:

is exactly that, that like these are businesses that really do



Greg Dent:

want to have a good compliance posture on this stuff. They



Greg Dent:

really don't want to be helping criminals launder money for lack



Greg Dent:

of like, if we can go back to the brass acts of what this is



Greg Dent:

all about, they take that obligation seriously, I think is



Greg Dent:

what I'm hearing you say. Is that reflected in the



Greg Dent:

conversations you're having as well? Taylor,



Taylor Cameron:

yeah. I mean, again, going back to one of the



Taylor Cameron:

comments I made earlier, that we have this, this population that



Taylor Cameron:

don't really know what they don't know yet. And then we have



Taylor Cameron:

the ones that know that there are things that they don't know.



Taylor Cameron:

And it's, it's the ones that don't know what they don't know



Taylor Cameron:

that I have the most fear for. You know, not completely



Taylor Cameron:

understanding what it is that we're trying to do, not having



Taylor Cameron:

enough knowledge to be able to understand the complexities of



Taylor Cameron:

it and putting a full and complete program together. And



Taylor Cameron:

then I think once we give them a little education, they go, Oh,



Taylor Cameron:

crap, there's a lot more to this than we actually initially



Taylor Cameron:

realized. And I think that's the place that, that's what we



Taylor Cameron:

should be aiming for right now, is to be able to educate this



Taylor Cameron:

market, or sort of this industry, to really allow them



Taylor Cameron:

to understand what it is that we're doing here and the way



Taylor Cameron:

that we need to be doing it, as well as the wise like, I mean,



Taylor Cameron:

it was, I had a I had a consult just The other day, who said, I



Taylor Cameron:

only do repeat business. Been doing this a long time. Further



Taylor Cameron:

along into the conversation we were talking about I had shared,



Taylor Cameron:

I've been a realtor for 16 years, and shared how once I've



Taylor Cameron:

been with really trusted almost a year now, but coming out of



Taylor Cameron:

the training that we provided, I look back on my career and was



Taylor Cameron:

like, Holy crap. There's at least a half dozen individuals



Taylor Cameron:

or clients that should have been marked as something more than a



Taylor Cameron:

low risk and including a suspicious transaction. And he's



Taylor Cameron:

like, You know what? Now that you say that I did have this one



Taylor Cameron:

incident where somebody, it was a part of a drug cartel,



Taylor Cameron:

somebody was knocked off. And the the remaining partners in



Taylor Cameron:

this business setup came to me and and, and I'm like, did you



Taylor Cameron:

ever like, Did you do anything with that information? He's



Taylor Cameron:

like, No, I was scared. And I you know. But the point is, is



Taylor Cameron:

that this conversation started with, I know all of my clients,



Taylor Cameron:

we are all risk going to they had somebody that was knocked



Taylor Cameron:

off. I'm like, okay, need I say more? So



Greg Dent:

I would suggest to you that there will be a



Greg Dent:

slightly higher level of risk in this transaction, and you became



Greg Dent:

aware of it at some point in time. Whether that was before or



Greg Dent:

after, the deal is somewhat irrelevant. You still had some



Greg Dent:

sort of ongoing obligation here. So,



Taylor Cameron:

yeah, so, I mean, it's been interesting, and



Taylor Cameron:

I think if I can just touch on this, because I have, I've have



Taylor Cameron:

such passion about this, is that we have to remember this is



Taylor Cameron:

called money laundering, for a reason. This is the people that



Taylor Cameron:

we are dealing with. This has gone through several channels.



Taylor Cameron:

We're not dealing with the head of a cartel. We it's gone



Taylor Cameron:

through several channels before. We are front facing with whoever



Taylor Cameron:

it is that individual is. They're there to put down our



Taylor Cameron:

defenses. They're there to be likable and really not want us



Taylor Cameron:

to dive in and want us to believe the best in them. That's



Taylor Cameron:

the whole purpose. So we can't go blindly into this and just



Taylor Cameron:

say, really like them, you know that you know nothing we need to



Taylor Cameron:

do the due diligence. We need to do that little extra bit of



Taylor Cameron:

questioning and looking into this to make sure that we're not



Taylor Cameron:

on, you know, we're not offside on on what they are trying to



Taylor Cameron:

accomplish.



Greg Dent:

Now you've just said we need to do this, and I



Greg Dent:

completely agree with you, but some portion of the audience



Greg Dent:

always says, right? But that's not my job. I'm not a police



Greg Dent:

officer. How? How do each of you I have one response that I hope



Greg Dent:

that somebody would say, but what would your answers be to



Greg Dent:

that? Maybe chat. I do you want to take a crack at that and give



Greg Dent:

us your thoughts on that.



Cagatay Sen:

Well, this is, yeah, indeed, something that has



Cagatay Sen:

come across, perhaps mostly in the real estate council meetings



Cagatay Sen:

I had naturally. But I like to give this as well and just



Cagatay Sen:

basically saying that you may feel that you're doing the work



Cagatay Sen:

of the work of the regulatory authorities, etc. But I was



Cagatay Sen:

telling that you know you are providing basically valuable



Cagatay Sen:

intelligence information, which may be only one piece of the



Cagatay Sen:

puzzle, but when you fulfill your obligation, especially in



Cagatay Sen:

regards to something unusual, especially. Services, and you're



Cagatay Sen:

submitting STR defense, right? That is very valuable



Cagatay Sen:

information, which may, in the end, end up at the hands of the



Cagatay Sen:

law enforcement agencies, etc, and they may bring down the all



Cagatay Sen:

criminal gang, etc, things like that. So everybody has their



Cagatay Sen:

proper role in respect of this process. Yes, it may be a burden



Cagatay Sen:

just doing the additional control here and there, etc. But



Cagatay Sen:

I mean, it is not something that they have to feel like they're



Cagatay Sen:

doing alone, especially with the French work expense program that



Cagatay Sen:

they signed up for. We were trusted. We have a whole support



Cagatay Sen:

test, which is backing up their whole day to day activities.



Cagatay Sen:

They just have to give us a call or send an email, and we always



Cagatay Sen:

available to always provide that legislative guidance,



Cagatay Sen:

elaboration as to what they have to do. They're not alone. It's



Cagatay Sen:

something new for them. They don't necessarily feel like they



Cagatay Sen:

have to do it at first instance, but this is what I said one day,



Cagatay Sen:

that should shift the mindset happens. And that will happen



Cagatay Sen:

with the day to day experiences, the training, awareness, etc.



Cagatay Sen:

Things will be built up, etc. And they will then feel more



Cagatay Sen:

comfortable that they have to be doing this, etc, and they want



Cagatay Sen:

to be doing this, and they will be benefiting the whole system



Cagatay Sen:

in general, in that regard.



Greg Dent:

Lovely. And I completely buy into that part of



Greg Dent:

things. And I think it's really important to call out that good



Greg Dent:

compliance is actually just good business. I mean, as a business,



Greg Dent:

I don't want to be working with a criminal for all sorts of



Greg Dent:

reasons, reputational risk, fraud risk increases. Like they



Greg Dent:

just the effort. And I guess here's the like from a from I



Greg Dent:

think there's, like, some obvious, really good to society



Greg Dent:

parts of things, and you've just kind of really well elaborated



Greg Dent:

on that, in fact. But I think beyond that, just like, Let's go



Greg Dent:

really selfish for a second. I'm running a business. It costs me



Greg Dent:

money when I spend a bunch of time working with somebody who



Greg Dent:

ends up being fraudulent and I therefore don't get paid, or end



Greg Dent:

up getting dragged into a lawsuit, or getting up get out,



Greg Dent:

being investigated by somebody having a production order,



Greg Dent:

having to spend the time to deal with the production order before



Greg Dent:

I even get to the reputational risk of being the guy who gets



Greg Dent:

published in the newspaper as the one who was involved in the



Greg Dent:

drug trafficking ring and all those things. So there's,



Greg Dent:

there's both, I think, a really good to society, part of things



Greg Dent:

that that just, well, look, you have an obligation, and so you



Greg Dent:

might as well. But also, from a good business point of view, it



Greg Dent:

is insane to me that a reporting entity would willfully choose to



Greg Dent:

not put into in place some form of safeguards to protect



Greg Dent:

themselves against all of the elements of fraud that might be



Greg Dent:

perpetrated within their business otherwise. So I think



Greg Dent:

there's kind of the both sides of that, to me, are really



Greg Dent:

powerful. I'm looking at the clock. Taylor, you look like



Greg Dent:

you've got something you want to wrap up. Go ahead. Yeah, and I



Greg Dent:

would



Taylor Cameron:

just wanted to say, you know, we it is like



Taylor Cameron:

chat. I said it is a piece of a puzzle. So when we have, you



Taylor Cameron:

know, the banking system doing a report on somebody, and then,



Taylor Cameron:

you know, the conversations are having with a bank versus the



Taylor Cameron:

conversations clients are having with me as a realtor, when I'm



Taylor Cameron:

showing a property, everything is really relaxed. Their guard



Taylor Cameron:

is down. Is then a different conversation that they're having



Taylor Cameron:

with a mortgage broker, and it is a piece of a puzzle. And I



Taylor Cameron:

think we also have these two thoughts that, you know what,



Taylor Cameron:

when we report something, it goes into a dark void, and we



Taylor Cameron:

never know anything that happens. And then we have the



Taylor Cameron:

other school of thought that is, oh, my God, I'm gonna risk



Taylor Cameron:

somebody as high or assessment as a high risk, and you know,



Taylor Cameron:

they're, you know, CIA is gonna come banging on their door and,



Taylor Cameron:

you know, tear apart their home. And the reality is, is that we



Taylor Cameron:

are not going to know. We're not always going to know the impact



Taylor Cameron:

that we have. You know, Greg and I, you and I have traveled a lot



Taylor Cameron:

in the in September, when we sat at tables and rubbed shoulders



Taylor Cameron:

with a lot of people from chinchak, and their ability to



Taylor Cameron:

disclose a lot of information is also withheld, so similar to, if



Taylor Cameron:

we have witnessed an accident and and we take somebody and



Taylor Cameron:

drop them off at a hospital, we are not privileged to their



Taylor Cameron:

medical well being after we drop them off, but we have to know



Taylor Cameron:

that we had an impact. And so I think that's just, I just wanted



Taylor Cameron:

to end on that note, that we all have a piece of the puzzle to



Taylor Cameron:

create and build and and we should all take it seriously and



Taylor Cameron:

and that we are doing something for the betterment of our, of



Taylor Cameron:

all of us,



Greg Dent:

that's a really positive way to end this. So



Greg Dent:

thank you for that. I love it. That's terrific. All right,



Greg Dent:

guys. Well, thank you very much. Taylor, thank you. Thank you



Greg Dent:

very much. Chant, I really appreciate you both joining me



Greg Dent:

and having this conversation. I do hope that for our listening



Greg Dent:

audience, you'll be able to take away some thoughts as to if



Greg Dent:

you're a mortgage entity listening to this, I hope you've



Greg Dent:

you're considering what we've said from your point of view.



Greg Dent:

Um. Um and and you know, if any of what what we've said rings



Greg Dent:

true as challenges you might be facing, give us a shout. We're



Greg Dent:

happy to help. That's that's certainly what we do. If you're



Greg Dent:

looking at this, if you're not a mortgage entity and you're



Greg Dent:

you've listened this far, well, thank you for joining us. I hope



Greg Dent:

that we've managed to to give you some insight into it, a



Greg Dent:

different sector of the world, and managed to help you



Greg Dent:

understand how other people are grappling with their reporting



Greg Dent:

obligations, as it were. Thank you very much. Folks. Have a



Greg Dent:

wonderful day.



Taylor Cameron:

Thanks everyone.