Bisexuality, DEI, & Strategic Intentionality

Welcome back, my friends. So happy you are here. My hope for you is that you can take a breath and feel a sense of calm while you are here. Dei, diversity, equity and inclusion is a huge initiative for corporations and academic institutions right now, as it should be. It is multifaceted and can seem quite complicated. But it really comes down to two things, awareness and education. How can we increase our awareness, deepen our knowledge, and make the necessary shifts in our actions and in our lives to help make every space, one that is inclusive and filled with love? To me, this is not just an abstract question, but a guiding principle for daily life. I invite you to join me on this quest.

Welcome to Just breathe parenting your LGBTQ team, the podcast, transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child. My name is Heather Hester and I am so grateful you are here. I want you to take a deep breath. And know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the just breathing. That's whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies or lessons I've learned along our journey. I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat. Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey, right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone. Raise your hand if you've ever been in conversation with your LGBTQIA plus child or friend and felt confused or embarrassed or even frustrated because you didn't understand the meaning of the words or phrases that they used. Come on. It's nothing to be ashamed of my hand is raised. We've all been there. Which is why I created a guide for us called the language of LGBTQIA. Plus, it's a 50 page book of comprehensive yet easy to digest explanations. Text breathe, to 55444 to access this amazing book, that's b r e a t h e 255444. My guest today is an incredibly impressive and accomplished business leader and inspirational speaker, Victoria Pelletier's bio, which you can read in detail in the show notes is an extraordinary display of breaking the glass ceiling in every possible way. She believes in the importance of personal branding, as well as the value of being an empathetic leader to empower employees. But what we focus on our enlightening discussion is the power of Dei, on not just the corporate cultures, but all cultures and building a life of resilience. So Victoria, I'm so glad that you are here with me today and here to share your story and your just incredible life experience. You have been both personally professionally, just really extraordinary. And I think the one thing when I was really, you know, learning about you and reading about you. One thing that stood out to me was how you've really lived on purpose like you have always been like, This is who I am. I'm going to you know for lack of a better phrase live out loud, right? Like this is who I am and I'm going to step into who I am and be that and I think that is something we can all learn from that is something that many want to do but it is difficult to do. So. Thank you for being such a great and role model in that way. And I'm just excited to learn from you today. And so just let's just start kind of at the beginning. Let's start with your story and then we'll go from there. Sounds good.

Well, thanks Heather for having me here I may incredible, maniacally focused leader around diversity and inclusion and a lot of that comes from my own lived experience. And so therefore, I do share quite openly to help others with their own journey. So my story I'm so actually come from very, very difficult beginnings. And it did actually inform how living out loud I was, and or what I told on a public forum versus in a smaller setting. So I'm born to a drug addict, a teenage mother, who many years later, I found out came out as lesbian while she was in jail. And I that initially probably caused me to sort of reel a little bit in terms of how comfortable I was with my own sexuality look like. At age 14, however, when I was in high school, in a Catholic High School in a relatively small town, I came out as bisexual. Although I did it mostly guys at that point, and some of that was just access to other people in the queer community in the town I was in. And then when I got relocated to a much larger city, and met one of my first friends was a gay man who took me to the geek community, I met women that I started dating and then later met and married a woman who I was with for 11 years and vacillated at times between my bisexual I'm a lesbian until I think as I matured, and grew and got a little bit more comfortable in my skin. got comfortable with my queerness I don't love labels, I, you know, I guess I would say bisexual, although my daughter tells me because I would be open to sleeping with trans people, I should say that I'm Pam, I just prefer the word clear. I did separate from my wife, who unfortunately passed away a couple of years after that from from her second bout of cancer. And I'm now married to a man. And I'm in this amazing family where, you know, I'm open have been open to dating, those people that I'm attracted to, and I think are great humans, to a man who often gets mistaken as a gay man, because he's very fit. He likes to dance, he used to teach massage therapy. I have this huge, hulking, incredibly straight son, but looking and certainly dating girls, and then I have a daughter who's queer, who came out at age 11, or 12 is initially bisexual to lesbian who now in the last, you know, six or eight weeks is gender questioning. So that's my story.

Well, that is a an excellent question. Everybody needs to take a breath, and just like process, all of that, that was a lot of information. That was a lot of a lot of stuff. And I think one of the things, you know, again, that just jumps out at me is how you were just kind of like, I'm going to just see, like, you've never been stuck to, like you said, a label, like, this is what I am. This is how I'm defining myself. And that's it. Right? I love that. You've been very much like, I need to, I'm not quite, you know, I haven't felt all the way through, right, there's, there's layers here, and I need to figure out those layers. And it's such a great example of, you know, I'm just gonna put the whole label thing to the side, because I too, feel the same way about labels. But I think, you know, as we were talking a little bit earlier, people like labels, right? People want to use labels. And I think sometimes, especially when you're new to understanding, it helps to have that just so you can get that understanding, right. And as we both know, bisexuality is very misunderstood. And, and I think if you asked 10 different people, you would get 10 different answers, right? Kind of the same with pansexual. It's very kind of every person has their own unique definition of what that means. So I'm just wondering if we could talk a little bit about your thoughts on bisexuality and how you would define it, so to speak. Yeah. So

bisexual the way I mean, we think binary one or the other. And so bisexuality for me when I came out was around the fact that I was interested in both men and women. And, and now I think that's evolved. As you know, my daughter, as I said, earlier, said I should be much more broad and so I prefer to say queer just means I'm not straight, is it's really weird for me. But what I've heard about, you know, the label of bisexuality is a multitude of things from you know, many people who just don't understand what that means, or I remember the first serious girlfriend, I had a lesbian. And she and I had a big argument, because I remember her telling me then that it just meant, you know, those who declared themselves by hadn't fully come out of the closet, they were dipping their toe into it. Now funny, she and I are still friends to this day. And I was I'm 46 We were point I was 21 dating her. And she's now evolved. She's like, I'm sorry, I was wrong back then. And so she'd acknowledge that as she's grown, and, you know, in the LGBT community and her own queerness and comfort in cells. And so if you're really, really mixed things about it, and then also felt very different in the LGBT community around this status or class, in terms of where you sit on, you know, on the on the spectrum, quite frankly.

Right. Right, which is so interesting to me. I mean, it's, I guess, shouldn't be surprising, right? And I've, and I've heard different things from different people who sit at different places on the spectrum. But I think that is so fascinating. And I guess I mean, we can both speculate as to why that is. But why why do you think that is? I

think it's just a lack of understanding, quite frankly, and or the experience of others, their lived experience and exposure to it. And so for many people, you know, bisexuality, I think they just believe that you haven't been declared ever made a choice. And the reality is, I, I don't think we have to make a choice, or it changes over time. Just like, our, our hobbies, and our interests change and pivot over time. So to can at times, there's a greater interest in one thing versus another. So for, for me, I think that's the, the misunderstanding. And I think that's why I've felt this sort of marginalization when I speak openly about dating men and women, because gay men or lesbians are just saying, Well, we're all in on one thing. And that doesn't mean I I'm not for me, it's truly about the human that I've chosen to date or be partnered with. And I look for qualities in that that has less to do with body parts and more to do with INTELLIGENCE AND KINDNESS of the individual themselves.

Right? Well, and I'm wondering, too, you know, as you say this, because it my daughter, similarly, we were having a conversation a few weeks ago, and I think our daughters are about the same age. So you know, the same thing, she was kind of wondering that about herself, and being pansexual. And so I think that's such an interesting, that's something that I don't know, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but pansexuality really was not. It may have been, you know, 40 years ago, but certainly people weren't recognizing it or understanding it. And I feel like now, it does make so much more sense, right? Because it is that, like, you just said that attraction to the human. The the, you know, the soul, that's I say, I'm like, it's a soul connection. And then instead of like a physical, only attraction, so, you know, part of me wonders if that's kind of a piece of the equation, a piece of, I'm just kind of wondering out loud, not necessarily a question in there. But as, as we ponder these things, I just find it. I do find it interesting. And I do find, you know, interesting as well, that, you know, be is it's LGB. Like, it doesn't mean that you you're not all N It's it's another orientation. And so I do just kind of always think that's so interesting that one would question the other, right? Because I just think everybody needs to be working together, we all need to be working together.

Yeah, and one of the things about it is that it's all about, you know, include acceptance and inclusion. And so the fact that being bisexual has made me feel more marginalized is completely contrast to what it is that the community as a whole has been advocating in demanding for all of these years around being treated equally having equal rights and being accepted and feeling they can show up and be their whole selves. Right. I've seen improvements. I've seen improvements over the years. But there's still some differences, which is sad.

There are there are and I think, you know, that a lot of that goes back to just understanding and and like anything, you know, it's the kind of kind of continual education right, as we learn more as more information comes out, as our kids come out young are right, and it gives us this like extra time to like figure things out and learn all these new things, right? I mean, I just feel like there's so much more information available now to everyone in the community and, you know, allies and others, right? Where it's there for people to learn. It's there for people to be like, Oh, okay, this is how I can be more inclusive. This is how I can either change my languaging or, you know, have that light bulb moment of, Oh, okay. That's what that means. Like, I finally get it as you know. So, yes, I could not agree more that it, you know, everybody needs to come together to really, to make this make this work. I mean, as a total aside, but you'll you'll get where I'm going in a minute. I, when Roe was overturned, and Jan, my daughter, and I were watching because you know, why not add insult to injury, the documentary reversing roe? Have you seen it? I haven't seen it. Okay, I highly recommend it, but buckle your seatbelt. It's tough. But as I was watching it, what I found so interesting is that this was an organized like the organization to get to what happened in June has been decades in the making. I mean, the on the on that side, on the people who are, you know, I can't even say pro life because they're not pro life. But those those people, right, and the the mechanist, between, just I can't even there's like not even words, but I was watching it thinking. That's why this has been successful. Because they all like they found this message that they could get so many people to buy into, even though it was not accurate, in any way, shape, or form. But they, they were able to sell this message and sell it over 40 years to be able to overturn this. And that is where I fit, you know, now I'm talking just very specifically in the LGBTQ community, but as you know, and I say we own as an ally and as an advocate. So please don't anybody take offense to that. But as we fight for things, right, and are out there, we all need to come together, everybody needs to come together and organize and get on the same page. And a message that is accurate and true. Because that is where, you know, I just believe so much. And in that. So I know that's probably idealistic in some ways. It's just that's been sitting with me for all these months. And I'm like, I am just done. And I can still, yeah,

I know, I feel exactly the same. I belong to a women's executive network. And there's a whole community that's been built within it. Were talking about what does that look like reproductive rights and health rights, etc? And we're all just completely incensed.

Oh, yeah. I mean, one, thank goodness, you know, there there are people like you out there who are doing these things and fighting, you know, because I, especially in the corporate world, I am sure you are constantly running up against some other challenges, perhaps. I so I'm just guessing. I don't I don't know.

There's a multitude of forces external that are coming in to deal with in the corporate DNI is only one element of of that. Yes.

So tell me I would love to know a little bit more about your dei work and what, what you were doing kind of specifically and then kind of what you envision going forward?

Yeah, I've been such an advocate for diversity, equity and inclusion, because of my own experience initially. So I became the CEO of a privately held outsourcing company at age 24. New mother, only woman in the room. Queer. So I was the only on a multitude of fronts. And so that became my journey of recognizing that, you know, our voices, our power, and what could I do with that, given that I sat in an executive role, and there were no formalized, either they call them either employee or business resource groups, ERG BRGs, within companies at that point, they weren't formalized. That came about more like in the last 10 to 15 years. And so I use my my voice and my power to advocate for others that were marginalized and like it had similar experience to myself, although I recognize I still have a significant amount of privilege being born as a white woman in North America to others and you know, shifted that into trying to create much more diverse workplaces and more inclusive workplaces. I've also realized it's incredibly good for business, not just the right thing to do. You know, so in managing the businesses I've been in a lot of the times when you look at, you know, outsourcing of services, think context center or back office activities. That's not always a destination for employees, as new immigrants to the country, for example, or as a stopgap that go there. But I want to create a great environment, so they stay there as long as possible, or find a career path for them. So it's shifted into being part of and in many cases leading LGBT and leading women resource groups, amongst others. But those are the two I personally identify with, within the organization's to maybe eight years or so, you know, my role as a C suite executive, I moved into a business that was focused on supporting other companies, HR strategy and workforce strategies. They're outsourcing and technology. So what was a personal passion for me around building the right kind of diverse, inclusive cultures became part of my day job. And so now I spent a lot of times with C suite executives and their direct reports or even boards of companies trying to figure out how to build more diverse, equitable, inclusive workplaces, with the right kind of leadership policies, procedures that ultimately drive the right kind of culture we all want to work in, that is

amazing, that is so needed, and so necessary, and I love how that is something new, you are kind of way ahead of the way ahead of the curve on that, aren't you? And getting that going and moving. So thank you, because that is something that I really feel like, in the past, maybe 18 months to two years, we have seen a huge push, which is phenomenal. And and I almost feel like in some cases, it's okay, we want to do this, but how do we do it? Right? How do we, you know, either support internally or educate internally, right? And, you know, what, what does that look like? And so it is, it's, I find it very fascinating. So I'm so glad that you're, you're doing it, and you're leading the charge. Awesome. So kind of looking forward, both in your position, professionally, but also personally, what do you feel are a few things that need to be done to move forward to continue? Because we're kind of there's, it's difficult right now, right? So people are always asking, you know, what can we do? What can we who can we talk to? Or what those types of questions do you have kind of in your mind, like, these are the steps that the next steps that need to be taken, or this is what you know, people on the ground, can be doing?

There's what I'd say there, there's no, there's no silver bullet or one particular thing. So when I look at, you know, building these kinds of workplaces, in communities, quite frankly, there's I have a phrase, I talk about the strategic intentionality. And so that means, you know, we need to, you know, create, and report on metrics to help identify how we're moving the needle. And so building policies and procedures and hiring leaders that have the right kind of values, actions, behavior and language to create inclusive culture. So it starts at the entry point in terms of, are we hiring, or inviting, and I'll focus on workplace but I mean, communities at large as well. And workplaces? Are we hiring a diverse workforce? And I will not accept from anyone saying, Well, I didn't get like a broad slate of candidates, well, then you didn't look hard enough, you weren't going to the right places to find the right kind of diverse talent. But are you bringing them in as quickly as they might be exiting? So the next thing is, are you creating this equitable environment where there's equal opportunity of pay and of opportunity for advancement within the organization, and then the inclusivity or sense of belonging is, in my opinion, that's the outcome of having the right leaders in place with policies and procedures to hire people, train them, give them opportunity, and allow them to feel like they can show up and be their whole selves in the workplace. That's what creates inclusion and belonging and will build retention within the employee population. So there's, like I said, No, no, one thing that, you know, here, it's a multitude of all of these pieces that need to come together. And sadly, I'm seeing incentive now to do the right thing which disappoints because I'm not a pessimist. And I want to believe that people all want to do the right thing and creating diverse, equitable, inclusive cultures. But incentive drives behavior. So we're starting to see, you know, executives and boards being held accountable for having diverse talent within the workplace, in countries, like, particularly Europe, in particular is further ahead, when you look at some of the regulatory requirements that they have in terms of who gets enacted, even the NASDAQ and s&p here started to do that, in terms of who can get listed on their exchange, do they have at least so many women or people have LGBT on the boards and an executive position? So that's starting to drive it forward. But even when you look at women in the workplace, in the US, it's going to take another 40 plus years, Stephen gets parity? Sadly,

wow. Wow. That's amazing. I had no idea it was that long still,

and hundreds of years when we look at other countries. So again, that's where I say, you know, we all have privilege, you know, being in North America, because danced on that front than others when you look at particularly at least gender. And so that's the one gender equity, you know, because it's, you know, in all of our HR systems, we know our employees, gender, non all countries can collect the same level of data as it relates to the other elements of diversity, whether that be race, religion, sexuality, neurodiversity, physical disability, and other physical disabilities, veteran status, all those things, but that's the intersectionality, we also need to be looking at, but from a gender perspective alone, we're still very, very long way to go.

Wow. Oh, my goodness. So this can also translate to building community, right, and creating positive movement forward within community. And so I like that this is very translatable, thinking about as you were talking to us thinking, Okay, well, this can translate to, you know, who's in place? Who are the leaders of a community, right, whether it's a town or a local organization or a school? Right, and what are they? What are the what's their messaging? What are they driving forward? And so I think that that is how this translates right down to just a very small community level for everyone. Who is really thinking, How do I make a difference, right? And sometimes, I know, it's very difficult when you look at the huge picture of what's going on. Even me, even if it's just you're in your state, right, not even the United States or goodness, you know, globally, because that can just be so overwhelming that you just shut down and don't do anything. Right. So I think when it's so inspiring, because you are, not only have you been incredibly successful, but you have such clarity on what needs to be done. And so thank you for sharing that, because that is very translatable for anyone to take, and and use. So thank you. Thank you so much. Of course. One last question. Again, kind of looking forward, do you feel and this is very, this is specific to LGBT? Do you feel hopeful about where perhaps, the community will be 10 years from now?

I am hopeful, although I'm, I'm scared. We talked about Roe versus Wade. And of course, where much of the LGBT community at least those that I'm talking to about about this is what does that mean for for LGBT rights? Is that going to be repealed the ability to get married and have them on benefits, etc. So I'm extremely hopeful because there's these kinds of conversations and dialogue and allies being built consistently. Yet I have this nagging concern over what's going to happen from a political perspective, at least in the US might hear a bit of an accent. I'm actually originally from Canada. And so you hear out when I say the new way. And that is one of the things I'm you know staunchly proud of from a Canadian perspective is the inclusivity and how far they move forward around human rights generally. And so it's here with me as a resident here in the US, too, with Roe vs. Wade to see how I think we might be stepping back so I'm, I'm cautiously optimistic. But I certainly think that business leaders world leaders are trying to move things forward to create a much better community and workplace is for for all?

Absolutely, absolutely. I can think many of us who can are paying attention, right, who are really looking can definitely see that and see the markers, which is very encouraging, which is also why I was sitting on a panel a few weeks ago. And this was one of the questions. And I thought it was such an interesting question to ask if one has hope. Because, you know, my answer initially was, well, if you don't have hope, like what's the point, right? I mean, what are we doing? If we don't have hope? So, of course, I have hope. But there's also a ton of work that has to be done, and we all need to be paying attention and, and figuring out what our role is where, where do we fit into this? And, and what are our gifts and our strengths that we can use to help move things forward in a positive way? I think that in the very near future, I think it's right now it's very scary, but I think that I do have hope that we'll be able to get through the next few years without too much damage, and be able to then, you know, move forward in a better and a better way. But again, that it's that requires so many people just need more and more people with the positive message and with positive understanding. So on all fronts. So anyway, so anything else that you would like to add that you haven't talked about that you wanted to talk about or clarify anything like that,

um, not specifically, other than building off what you were just saying, Heather, on this notion of having hope. And around my phrase of being strategically intentional, I think that we, we all have very much a place in this world to move things forward. And not everyone needs to be the great extrovert, like I am standing on public stages, there's a significant amount of ways that everyone can contribute, whether that's, as an ally, you know, being more inclusive, you know, we both on this call have our pronouns listed there, that's a simple way to do it to not making assumptions when you meet someone new. So I don't immediately say Is your husband or wife does your other half does your partner like there's a lot of things we can do. And so that's what I leave your audience with is, we can all move the needle, even if it's just in tiny, tiny increments along the way, and, and from a place that everyone feels comfortable with without expecting that it means standing on these public forums to do it.

Right. Exactly. Thank you. I'm so glad you said that. Because that is that's kind of what I was hoping for. Yes, I mean, it's absolutely true. There's, there's a place for everyone and when we need everyone, so if you you know, whatever you feel moved to do or say it does make a huge more of a difference than you realize. I think so. Thank you so, so much for being with me today. This was really fun. I learned a lot i I'm sure everybody listening will say the same thing. So thank you for your time and taking time out of your day to be here.

Thanks for having me.

And now it's time for your parenting LGBTQ and a. Today is day two of my magic mine challenge and I am honestly really pleasantly surprised. I had to delay the start of my challenge because I caught COVID which was a huge bummer for a million reasons. But it actually gave me a great proving ground for this magic little shot. A fun fact about me is that I love coffee. It is a comforting and grounding part of my morning routine. And I love everything about it, the smell, the taste, the ritual, so you can imagine that I need to be pretty intrigued by the health benefits of something if it is going to be added into my routine and decrease the amount of daily coffee I consume. So while my actual COVID symptoms were pretty mild, the lingering fatigue has been super annoying because it has really cut into my daily productivity. Enter magic mind. I am lukewarm at best when it comes to the taste of matcha. I'm all in on the health benefits, but I had not yet found a way that I enjoyed drinking it until now. I drank that for shot with just a bit of skepticism and my breath held and I have to say it was not just bearable, but really good. I'm really excited to see what the next week will bring. So stay tuned. And I'd love for you to join me on this challenge. Remember, you can get 20% off of your entire purchase using the code, breathe 14, that's B R E A, T H, E, one for all of the details are in the show notes and all over social media. And remember to tag hashtag 14 days of magic to help save the Amazon. This episodes LGBTQ and a is short and sweet, but so very important. So listen and and just the past few months, I have had many people ask if there any safe spaces online for their kids to talk with other kids who may be going through similar life experiences. I take this very seriously, for many reasons, not the least been our experience with Connor finding the darkest possible places and people online, I have two that I can recommend without reservation. The first is the Trevor Project traverse space. It is moderated by trained professionals while also allowing space for kids to connect. The second is spaces, which is for older teens, young adults and adults, but with the same premise a safe platform where queer people can connect without fear of harassment. If you have any vetted online platforms you would like to share please reach out to me and let me know and I will add them to my list. But for now, these two will be linked in the show notes so please check them out.