Breasts, Vulvas and Hips: Defining Beauty on Your Own Terms with Sade Curry | Ep.46

Hello and welcome to a tastes like freedom. Do I ever have a treat in store for you? So little couple of weeks ago shot a curry. She interviewed me for her dating after divorce podcast and man, we go deep. We talked about body image stuff in relation to all the things, even things like our vulva eyes, hair growth, nipples, hips, pretty much everything under the sun was touched on. And I got off that call and went, Oh my gosh, like, I literally want to hide under a rock. I just, I just shared way too much. But after I calmed myself down, I'm like, No, you know what this is the stuff that really does need to be talked about. We could talk about weight all day long. And we do on the show, and it's important to talk about it. But you know, when it comes to our relationship with our bodies, every little bit matters, right? So it's so important just to have this open conversation to get real so that we can really really support each other, moving forward in freedom. So get cozy, I'm so excited. You're gonna listen to this and enjoy

this show is about freedom. Freedom from your constant struggle with food and letting the size of your thighs determine your worth. Join me weekly for no hold back unfiltered girlfriend kind of conversations that'll inspire, teach and empower you. As we tune into our own body's wisdom and tune out of the diet industry blinds. We can live our most radiant, pleasurable and fulfilled lives. My name is Chanci dawn. I'm a non diet nutritionist embodiment and mindset coach. But most importantly, I'm a woman on a mission to grow a deeply connected and conscious relationship with food and my body. And I'm here inviting you to do the same. Let's go.

Hey, everybody, welcome back to the dating after divorce Podcast. I'm so excited to be with you today. My girlfriend can sit on and I are having a conversation today about body image and dating. And if you remember Chanci, she told her dating after divorce story a couple of months ago. So I know many of you love that. And I have so much fun on that episode. I just had to have her back. And if you have not met Chanci, she is a non diet nutritionist and embodied embodiment coach your Lord What's up Chanci welcome, tell listeners who you are what you do. And we'll jump right in.

Thank you so much. And like I was just saying, Before we pushed record, I just love that you invited me back. last conversation was so fun and just serving in this way, right women who are dating out of just newly or for a while out of marriages, and like this is such an important thing to talk about. So thank you, I really value this whole space that you've created. salutely Thank you.

So tell us what you do. Again, like just remind us what it means to be a non diet nutritionist.

i Well, I used to be a full fledged weight loss coach, diet coach, I sold weight loss shakes for a living. And I made a tremendous income helping women really not like themselves. Not realizing that's what I did. That was part of my journey. I just write in that right. And I was like, This is what we need to do. And, you know, this is weight loss. This is all of this stuff. And I really disguised it as like self care and self love. And I'm realizing that I was coming from such an unhealed place in that space. There's certain weight loss coaches out there who aren't right I don't want to bash the industry entire lean. It's really with intention and heart and soul. But for me through my journey of healing my relationship with food and my body. I really am like you know what diets whether it's a lifestyle program, a cleanse, anything that you're doing to intentionally shrink yourself. It's just that it's shrinking yourself. And I don't want anyone to shrink, right? And I'm talking energetically I'm talking about how you show up in life. The way you do food really is the way you do like so when I learn this I'm like yes I'm a nutritionist but I want to teach people how to and this is the embodiment part tune in to their bodies. Tune into what is right for them. Right What is their definition of beauty like we were talking about and when Getting more, and health, what actually is health? You know, when I started investigating and learning the the fat phobia messages out there and the whole, like how the patriarchy has warped our perception of what health is and what a woman should look like and all of this stuff, I was just like, holy crap stop because I need to get off what I'm doing right I took like time off really self reflected really like, again, deeply healed my and this is a journey. I'm not there. I don't want to pretend that I am. But it took that time to really like go in and heal this and get so close to my Creator, right? Like who am I? What am I here for? And that's what I do now. So it's helping women come home to themselves. They're not even part is learning how to really, like, deeply build this beautiful relationship with your body. What does she need to thrive? And I hope that

explained what I do. Oh, no, that's so good. That is so Lowry. But yeah, that's so good. I'm so real. And I was like, I was gonna walk him through my own journey as well. I don't have like, as much of a journey in terms of weight loss or my body image. And that's not necessarily better. And I'll tell you why. What. So it really started with like, you know, in, I grew up in Nigeria. So the beauty standard when I was growing up right now 2023, when we're recording this, the beauty standard is very much at par with, you know, the Western Western countries just because of social media and television. I mean, we didn't cable was introduced to you know, like this, my general. My general awareness and availability, like among my friends and things was I was probably about that time, like 10 years old, when we all just started getting cable cable TV, something like we were like behind the curve with like the beauty standards. So I grew up the beauty standards that I grew up with her mostly just within my immediate family, right. And I have darker skin than one of my sisters. So she was automatically considered the pretty one. And it didn't bother me a lot because I was considered the smart one way to go family of origin, like just pit us against ourselves. And like, we were just this out of the gate, like everyone had the thing that they had. And it was a, it was just automatically decided that the other person didn't have it. So then I just sort of not in a painful way, just like it just seemed like a fact that I wasn't pretty, but that that wasn't necessarily a bad thing, per se. So overall, I was just kind of like, okay, this is my thing. So I wasn't very engaged with my body image or how I looked. I think because there was so much attention on other parts of me, which is good. That has been a good thing for me. So I was also very, I had a couple of incidents where I grew up, like I was really skinny, like being pulled skinny. And you know, I've got made fun of skinny Shadie you know, jokes here and there. But those Barb's didn't like sinking very deep, because like, again, I had this other thing, so it was just Yeah. And so I wasn't very connected. I didn't have a lot of thoughts about how I looked until somewhere in my early 20s. Like I was 21 and 22. And then I was like, I don't remember exactly what was happening at that point. I think I was dating I think with me, I was 20 and I was dating and of course the cultural standards in Nigeria were curvy, like, you know, boobs and the bot and all that I had none of that. And I remember for like two weeks going on this like carb diet to like, put gain weight to gain weight. Yeah. And then I was eating pasta. And then I was like, You know what, this is dumb. Like it probably lasted like five days, or something in we just said This is dumb. And I just stopped. You know, and then and that was really it. I hope that was my entire body image. Like my whole life.

It was so funny. My brain is like, Oh man, I'd love five days where I could just sit and eat past all

the patriarchal thinking kept trying to seep in. And somehow my brain had like this automatic like switch like no, we're not doing

that. No, that is so good. Yeah, well, you're smart. Right there you there's the smarts coming through. Right. So

that has been a blessing. In many ways. Even I don't know that I can take credit for like consciously being that way. So when I started working with women who are dating, I actually had to like take a step back and connect with their journey and ask myself what's going on with it? What What don't you think you're attracted Why are you spending three hours getting dressed before day like what's going on? So I had to admit that I wasn't very connected to that part of their journey. And that's I think that's one of the blessings of my third certification, which is my feminist coaching certification. Absolutely. And Caroline foul really delved into it. And I'm like, Oh, this is what's happening. And I've been able to, like, take that material, and help my clients that can work on a one on one and group basis to understand why they're having such a hard time believing in just their own enoughness when it comes to their body image.

Absolutely, yes. When I had you on my podcast talking about this, and when you said, I haven't done that certification, I would love to. But when you were talking about that, I'm like, oh, mazing. Like I remember getting goosebumps and thinking this is this is teaching women and coaching women about, you know, dating and body image. And thank you, Shadi for taking the time and doing what you need to do to be able to be equipped. It's so Oh, wonderful. Wonderful.

Thank you. Thank you. All right. Where do we want to begin? Where do we

want to begin? Well, you brought up beforehand, I think, yes. So can we talk about the hair removal thing?

Let's just jump right to the start. Yeah. And

the reason I want to is because personally, like that has been a huge part of my journey with self, I have PCOS. And very extreme symptoms of hair growth, right. If I pull out the hair on my chin, like, not just my chin, my neck like male pattern bald every single day, with an epilator, I have to it rips it out, right. And I've done all the things to try to remove it. Nothing works because of the androgens. And my doctor two days ago, just said, Let's put you on this medication, which blocks the androgens, and it might help with this. And here are all the side effects and my brain. And the reason I want to talk about this is like, there's tons of side effects. And I was like, gonna sign up for it. After I'm 45 my whole life. I've been dealing with this. And now I'm like, oh, yeah, let's do that. Not saying if anyone does that, that's not a right. That's wrong. I'm not saying but for me in my journey. Wow, did it bring up a lot of a lot of things. Okay, so I think that starting there, because I'm a little feisty on that topic right now.

Might be a really good place. That's amazing. And as part of that, the nuance that like it's not that the message here is not that don't take don't don't shower, don't put on makeup, don't grow your hair long. Don't wear skirts, don't you know, whatever is that? Are you choosing? Are you what we're trying to do with this conversation is to give every woman a choice, and the power to determine for herself exactly what beauty means and what she wants to invest into versus this unintentional autopilot default requirements that have come from the outside. So when it comes to hair removal, let's talk about the fact that one we are mammals. And at one point, at what point did we decide that hair was a bad thing? And on only for only for some people, though? Only for some mammals? Yes. Only

30. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And I really, I remember looking into this and back, you know how back to ancient Greece, women were removing their hair. And yeah, and I was like, wow, like, because when I really started looking like how far back does this go? And why? Right. And I think that's the important thing. So when I'm talking about some like with eating for example, and tuning into your body and say you want Oreo cookies, the questions I love to ask and have my clients ask are, do I really want it? Yes or no? And if you ask why. And do I like my reasons for for that, right? Do I like my reasons for the Yes.

And I like to say do I like my reasons? I like to rephrase it as are these reasons really mine because you might like the reason but I think even your reasons. Hmm, yeah,

I really, if they're you truly are reasons you will like them. Yeah, absolutely. And and when I'm like so with the embodiment portion, it's like an do Do I like Sorry, can you say that again? Do

they really my reasons. Reason? Yeah. Is this like, like like lipstick? I put it on this lipstick. Okay. I'm putting on lipstick because, you know, I'm dressing up for I don't know ball, Ebola or whatever. I'm gonna go to a ball. Right? Why am I putting on lipstick? Right like, oh, yeah, cuz sometimes we think oh, because I want to look good. And like that's yeah. That's a good reason. I like that reason. But then is it My reason is yeah, my definition of looking good.

I love that. And to take that, but I love to teach though that question is beautiful, and then feel it in your body. Where does it land? Right? So when I ask that question, do I like my reason for doing so it's like, what does my body feel right now? So when I think about that, when I think do I like my, am I going to take this med say? I said, Yes. Why? Because I don't want a beard anymore. Do I like my reason for doing so? When I asked that question? Yes. I don't want a beard anymore. Okay. That's okay. I don't have to want a beer. Right? But it's like, do I like my reason? Or is that my, it does that land with me. I don't feel light in my body. I feel a tightness in my chest. I feel like a swirling in my stomach. And to me, that's my body going sweetheart. This isn't right for us. And and so I love that part. Like knowing our bodies are so wise. And when you start to tune in and really connect with her and build this relationship together, you can really decide what is right for us. Because it's my body that I will be putting this medication and she has a say. She has a say. And it's like, okay, I'm 45 Almost in April. And this is something that we've really worked through together. This is something then you know, like, I no longer cringe when my partner touches my chin and feel. Feel stubble. I no longer. I remember when I was I was champ leading or a camp counselor sorry for like kids camp. And this little girl looked up at me and she's like, you have a beard. I was like, oh, like I was

dying. And the boy

had a crush on happen to be there. When she said it. It was like the worst. Right? And that just went Oh, and my body was I hated her. I was like, You are betraying me, right? Even at that young age. And we've worked through that together. So here it is time in my life. She's like, Honey, no, this we've worked through this. It's okay. Yeah, pull it out with an epilator every morning. That's okay. We feel light about that. But taking them that might actually do something more to us. No, that doesn't land well with him. If that?

Yeah. Oh, 100% 100%. And even asking, Why do I have hair on my chin? Mm hmm. Like, just if you think about it, like it's hair on your chin has come? You know, with you. You were gifted with this when you came to Earth? So it's like, Wait a second.

Yeah, it is. And it's is it actually a problem? And is it actually a problem? You know, PCs? Yes, some women. There's a it's a huge percentage of women who have PCOS. And a lot of them have, like male pattern hair growth. And, and it's like, is that actually even a problem? If that's what a lot of women have? And this is just like, is that actually even a diagnosis? Or have we just seen that? See? Yeah, because

when men grow beards, we know, we don't want to like, oh, yeah, you need to like shift those hormones.

Right? Or like last few years, if they have sparse beards. It's not like, Oh, you really, really need to do something about that. Like this is, you know, my guy is bald. I love it. I'm just like, right? Our bodies are our bodies. And yes, sometimes with PCOS, fertility is an issue, you know, things like this. And yeah, we want to, we want to treat that in in the ways that we can for me diet worked, I was able to have children through learning how to take care of that, that symptom, right? Not every woman can. But again, this is a personal choice, but it's really asking, Is this actually a problem? And why? So I think that is so empowering. You know, and going back to when you said, it's our personal decision, but let's just make our decisions that land well, and from a place of enoughness not from a place of I need to do this to be valuable to someone

outside. Yes, yes. That is, right. Yeah. Yeah. No, 100% whoever, whoever, as long as it's just a nebulous day, like

even even girl I can't.

Sometimes we have partners who absolutely love everything that we are still suffering about their body image because he doesn't meet what their mother wanted or what they see on TV. And I think this is probably a good time to say like, we need to become aware and I think sometimes this creates a lot of discomfort. The awareness that beauty standards are random and made up. That's the starting point. Every beauty standard is random and made up and we don't even remember who made them up. Yeah, we don't anymore. We don't even know who made it up.

Exactly. And I love your story, right? Like you growing up, you went on a carb diet for five days to gain weight. Meanwhile, I'm like thinking past is the devil at the same time. Right? So it's and I no longer think that but you know, back in my day it days, and it is it's like that is a perfect example of that very thing. Yeah, right. Different parts of the world, different messaging, different images were being shown, right, different conditioning, and then we believe that is truth.

Yeah. And that is like even a few 100 years ago, where, you know, curvy bodies were the beauty standard. It wasn't even an objective decision. It was just because that was the standard for the elite. Like if you were wealthy and came from a wealthy family, then you had enough money to buy a lot of like, really great food. And so the beauty standard that we see in all of the in western civilization and the paintings, that beauty standard didn't actually come from a consideration of beauty. They weren't thinking about beauty. They were thinking about their elite, more elite look like this, because they have money. Hmm,

interesting. And what's really interesting with that, now we'll watch like, movies, right? Or I'm thinking of Game of Thrones, because I just finished that series again, right? And I know that's like, it's not real, but it was, but that it really that time period that we're believing it was based in. That's exactly what you're speaking of. Right? Like, HERBIE, that's Well, you look at them, and but what we're being fed is no, like, all admittedly thin. Yeah, even that, like we're

even even when we're showing history, he's just been rewritten without any women.

No. I really hope skinny and they have these, like, full. I've watched Game of Thrones first time, like when it first came out in 2004. And, and then after, and like, like I said, I'm revisiting right now. And I'm like, What are these? Like? Have you watched it? I have, I have Okay, so I really enjoy it right. But, but I didn't get when it first came out, I was thick into the diet mentality. So I looked at it through a different lens. And now I'm watching it. And I'm like, all of these, they pan out. And it's like this woman standing there perilous, perilous. First of all, like, incredibly thin, with, like, the most perky boobs you've ever seen in your entire life. I'm like how all these women, like group is lens now of going holy crap like this is what's being said to us constantly. And if you're not aware of it, you just let it come in and believe it as truth, and then it warps your perception of what is right for you.

Yeah, and the number of images. It's not even just the kind of images but the number the sheer multitude of the images, social media, television. And of course, we are the TV generation, I think, really, that really grew up the Gen X 40. Somethings we like TV was our social media. And, you know, we have been fed a whole lot of that. And now we have even more with social media layered in with corporations using women's bodies, to sell products, like the awareness and fighting the establishment is one thing, but I think the first way we fight that is by just becoming aware of how it's impacting you. Because I hear a lot of people talking about, well, this is affecting our kids and our kids this and it's affecting, like you but start with you. Yeah. How is social media impacting you? Are you even aware of how it's impacting you? How is television? How are the movies impacting you individually, today?

Yeah,

because without that awareness, you're like, you're on autopilot. You're being led by the nose to a particular destination, you have no idea. You know what's happening. And so then if you have that, like low hum of dissatisfaction with your body, with that low harm of disconnection from your body, or compulsively working on your body or compulsively purchasing things like that may be coming from some of this messaging.

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And, yeah, oh my gosh, and I remember back when I first started dating, after my marriage, my divorce, I was mid 30s. And I'm just gonna get really like, I feel like this conversation sometimes. Yeah, I'm talking you know, we talked about curving Sn like boobs and like perky boobs many of the women you know if you're dating after divorce, you have children, right? So your, your body has gone through that transition. And so there's a whole other stuff there to really consider and, and embody as your truth. And, and we talked about in the beginning before we push record like what is my definition of beauty here? Okay so I don't think and I know that Cara teaches this too it's like you don't go from zero I hate my body to I love my body right there's this and I and that's so important to to work towards in this so even after like listening to this podcast, it's not like I expect anyone to go oh, this is I'm really I'm feeling really self conscious about dating. And for example, even being naked in front of someone for the first time. Like this is so scary to like, yeah, now I listened to this now I have awareness. So now I'm good, right? Like, oh, yeah, compassion, tons of compassion for yourself with my program. It tastes like freedom. When we talk about food, and our body, it like we look at the four pillars. So number one is curiosity. And that's about awareness. Okay, that's what we just talked about. So important get curious start to wake in those senses of what is right for me like what are what is my definition of beauty? And within that compassion, honey coat compassion all over yourself? Because yes, this runs so deep. We don't even realize this is in our DNA, right? Epigenetics, like our grandma's grandma's grandma's grandma's dealt with this in some way. Right. So this is such a we are doing powerful work here for ourselves and for the future. And compassion through it is essential. It is so essential. So I want to talk about evolvus. Is that okay?

Yes. 100 per se,

because when I think back to my first, like when I first started dating, I was terrified, because I met my husband when I was 19. He was the only person I was with. And I grew up without a lot of TV. Like we we were not a hippie family, but my parents were like TV rats, your brain. So we had like a black and white that we have like the three channel, rabbit ears. With us. I'm actually really grateful for that. And my mom also, she was like, No, like any of these teen magazines, anything that that it just teaches you the wrong message. Let's not have them. And I'm really grateful for that as well. And I still got a gay mom Exactly. And I still got all the messaging and I still, you know, really like struggled but thank goodness that that was part of that. So anyways, I started dating him and married him and then in my mid 30s I was like, aware of the fact all of a sudden that I was self conscious of my vulva. I, I didn't like it, it didn't look the way that I thought, you know, the ideal would or should, okay. And we didn't like, I haven't looked at a lot of porn or whatever. But anything that I was exposed to did not look, the way I look. Now was really hard. Oh, yeah, really hard. Because all of these images or whatever, you know, and then I started learning about, like plastic surgery women were getting on them.

And it's even if you hadn't seen a lot of like images of Volvo's the messaging? Yeah, he put talking about the bush. Yes. Like, because all she had a full Bush

Well, right.

And so like when I was 20 women getting Brazilian waxes I'm like, first of all, that sounds painful. I'm having none of that. When I think about, you know, things like that. I'm like, not any like reading that become a thing. It's not that people shouldn't get waxes or should get wax, but how do you how did a standard

exactly, it's like, here's increadible for hairless and your labia need to look a certain way. And if you had babies you should probably get know that tightened up, right. Tighten. I know, like I remember actually, I just remembered this. Whoa, holy, I forgot about this. I had three Syrians and I remember my axe actually going Oh, too bad. Like it would have been nice to have gotten an extra stitch. Like after I had babies when I didn't even have babies gradually right but he was disappointed because you didn't get to like stitch up. Because I remember like whoa.

Which actually brings up one of the themes We wanted to talk about which was women's bodies, all of this, the hair, the waxes, the tightening, the shaving the beauty, the long hair, all of it. The messaging is that your body is meant for someone else. Yep, the body is meant to look and feel pleasing to someone else. That is the that is the whole message was like birthing hips probably heard that. Like they're, like, I remember we breath in hips. So your body is needs to look like it can propagate the human race. But then it also needs to look like what, quote unquote, and we'll get, of course, men want whatever that is. And it also needs to stay that way forever. Or something has gone wrong.

Yeah, it's like, you need to look for tile. Right? So yes, certain level of curves, and you and all of this, and then but you need to, if it needs

to be what we like, to go beyond what a man wants to look at. Yeah,

it's like and it needs Yeah, now you need to look a certain way. So then you are attractive and alluring, so that you can actually be fertilized right, this vessel and then have this child and then after everything needs to go back to the allergic or Yeah, and

and again, it's just stay that way, because aging is aging also plays into this, where women above the age of fertility are then considered irrelevant, invisible. You know, in society,

my mom and I just had that conversation a couple of weeks ago, and she's in her late 60s. And she is like, I'm invisible, you know, and she, she was crying about it. And she, and she's like, it is so hard. And we have such a beautiful conversation about it. And she's like, I feel like 10% better, you know, so that that's good. But it's it is it is the messaging of that, of what is our value, really what is our worth, and why. And then we become once we are no longer able to have children. And it yeah, anyways, I'm

holding my camera. And as I know this, we're just scratching the surface of how deep the messaging the cultural narrative, the socialization and the conditioning goes, like. So deep. And we say this not because we want to, like unravel everything, but just to we're trying to communicate listeners that if you feel terrible about your body, it is not your fault.

Absolutely. And that's that curiosity, right? We're getting curious in this conversation, if it goes so deep to like, even, you must be hairless down there, and you must look a certain way. And then you must go back to that certain way. And all of this and it is it's curiosity, like honey, if you're listening to this, give yourself a big hug. Of course, this is a struggle. It's okay that it is, but you're not alone. And these conversations need to need to happen everywhere. And that's where I'm like, Yeah, let's talk about, you know, the hair on my chin. But let's also talk about like, that's like our private parts that no one really talks about. And this is such a huge issue for so many women who are newly dating, so many women, it's so deep. And if we don't feel like we have a voice with each other, to be able to express these insecurities, and to be able to like, get curious and love ourselves and love each other through it through these types of conversations. It keeps us caged. So I want to talk about like, everything. Every third, yeah. What is it that we struggle with? And let's love with compassion ourselves through it. Right. And then the next two parts of the of my, the pillars that I've created are permission and pleasure. Right? So for me one of the things when I first started dating, and I still, this is still a part it's like, how do I what do I need to give myself permission for and to be able to love and really respect my body? And like that goes into love right and appreciate her more. So permission to talk about this stuff openly? Oh, yes, ma'am. Right, like talk about it. And when I first started started talking about and I'll go back to the ball, that thing because that was a big thing for me. And I know it's a big thing for many women. And I started talking about that openly, right? Like on social media with the girlfriends like with clients. It freed me to just agree that I was like, oh, Ah, it took the charge out. So that's why this conversation about whatever it is, is so important. Yeah,

I love that. And I think like you said, let's talk about because I really, I have coached women through this not on the vulva. No one's asked me about that yet. And they're dating journey, but I have coached multiple clients on there, they will by now she wants to hear about this Yes. If it's there in your subconscious, or if it's something that's bringing up anxiety or worry for you, it is going to impact your ability to date in a way that is healthy, and in a way that like, makes you the right partner. So booth size, so we'll just kind of go down. And maybe you'll do like a little mini coaching for each one of the size out, especially with women who have smaller boobs, and maybe their whole lives, they've been wearing padded bras, just like you and me got married at a young age. And basically, quote, unquote, wasn't really an issue until now. They're dating again. So not only are they dating again, they're like, Oh, my God, every time I go on a date, this person sees me with this padded bra. Yeah. And then if I ever commit to that person, then they're going to see and what is that moment of the big reveal? Yeah, that. So that's been that's been a theme than they are. And I

want to add to that as well, if I may. Again, it's like there's this cultural societal messaging that there's like the, if you think back to Game of Thrones, they're all a certain size, right? Which is bigger, and their nipples are here. Right? So yes, so I have larger boobs. And so that was never an issue. padded bras were never something that I've ever owned, but taking the bra off and the boobs going through gravity doing what gravity does, yes, gravity doing what gravity does, after children and aging, and just the way our bodies are made even, right, like we're not all made with these perky boobs. Like, that's not how we all mature. So we made that way. Like, it has never been a time on this.

One all women have had the same size and color shape of anything. It was never like

to be that way. Absolutely. It never was. And now we have these messages. So yes, small boobs, or big boobs, or you know, that are not perky and perfect. And all of this, no matter what you listener are dealing with. Like it is okay. Because of the messages and let's have again, compassion with that. So if you have larger breasts, and you're like, Oh, I'm still insecure about that, of course, you are who you are. Right? Like I Yes, of course. And then for me like to get super vulnerable here. Um, I had I had plastic surgery, but I had inverted nipples. So my nipples were like non existent. And but I'd only been with Andrew, my ex husband, and I, he was great. He was lovely about that. never an issue. And then also, I started dating and it was like, Holy crap, this is terrifying, so terrifying that I had it surgically corrected. I personally do not regret that. For me. It was actually the right decision. My body felt good about that. It's like, yeah, you know what? I want nipples. And that's okay. And I'm gonna get them. Right. Yeah. And and that's another thing too, but it was like, again, why do I want this? Is it my reason? Yes, it is. And then I had that, right. Yes. So yeah, so anyways, that's, that's the boob? No, that's no, that's amazing. I

love that. Because in your journey, he was like, the, the, the nipples, okay, as long as my partner accepts them, and then that will trigger a moment where the big fear my partner in the future may not accept them. This is a problem. Yes. And yeah, bringing the decision again, I just want to repeat, the decisions are not bad there. And I wear makeup. I have extensions. I'm currently wearing hair that I purchased from the store. I feel good about that. Right? There are days when I'm like, I want to shave my hair. Right? When I make the decision about what to do whether to shave my hair on my head or wear extensions or get braids. It's pausing in that moment and saying, Am I making this decision for me? Or am I panicked and worried that some person out there is not going to like what they see. And that's a journey like I don't think that's where you were going was like there's a journey between that. Oh, wait, I've been so socialized. I'm completely making all these decisions based on cultural programming. Yeah. And then that decision to like permission, curiosity, all the all the steps In between two, and you know, and it will talk about body positivity a little bit, that journey to like, I have my own standard of beauty. I have sat with it, I have chosen it since other people can make it up. I can make it up to you know, whether it's the color of your skin, the length of your hair, whatever it is. And now I have decided what my standard of beauty is. And then the actions come after. Yes. Whether you get the surgery,

yes. Embodying place of your own truth. Absolutely. Yes, yes.

So we got to that was permission. If my understanding was like, curiosity and permission, a part of that middle, in your program, what is the what is the last

pillar? So they're not It's not like a linear, it's very nonlinear. So it all they all play in together, right? So it's like, sometimes I'm like, Oh, my goodness, like, I'm really needing to get into curiosity here or, yeah, like, this is an opportunity for pleasure. So it's so yeah, it's not one after the other, but the other one that plays in with them all, this big, beautiful pot of soup we get to play with right? Is, is pleasure. How can I love my body? Right? How can I make her feel alive? What makes her feel alive? What food feels so good and energetic and help me sleep better and feel so yummy? And delicious? Right? Like all of these things? And like, How can I dress myself in a way that makes me feel like, so like, so juicy and delicious? You know, like, I love wearing pretty earrings. And to me that just that just feels like fun? You know, it's not because someone will look at me and be like, Oh, she's acceptable. It's, it's because I just, I just think it's so fun. Right? And, yeah, so it's like, once you can get into that curiosity and redefine your beauty on your own terms, then you get to go into the pleasure right now, with playing with this, what feels great for me having like, nipples that stood out was very pleasurable it is I love them. I love my hair, you know, and it's, it's, it's a plain thing. It's just like, This is so cool. You know, and, and I remember just feeling like kind of ripped off, because I think it looks super sexy.

And I love it. Yeah. And I love that I think what I'm hearing is that you're definitely it was almost like the goal. You you redefined what the body was for our bodies. One of for yourself, and I think I just really connect with that was my body is for feeling good, which you would think would be like, really basic thought that we would all have.

When we're taught that our body is so someone else can feel good. That is very profound. It's very profess, right? So it's like, my pleasure is my own pleasure. Do I want to be able to make love to my partner and have nipples? Yeah, because I find that pleasurable. Right. So I mean, this is maybe this, this is my very personal example. But like, whoever's listening, like, make it your own example. Right? And most women have nipples. So this doesn't really relate to most, right? Like,

because I think what came to my mind when you when you were talking about pleasure, and I was thinking about because one of my struggles is style. Mm hmm. Right. And I think I do struggle with style have struggle, so I don't know that it doesn't make sense. I think one of the reasons I have like struggled with style is because there is a cultural norm, wherever you go for how to dress, what to wear, blah, blah, blah. But I was your for me is like I feel like the I'm not it's not a medical theme. Yeah, am I just be like a little bit of my, when I when I went to a particular church like 20 years ago, my pastor used to refer to like, if you did, like, just use the term flesh creature like the word that I would use for it is that like, I don't like feeling physically uncomfortable. Yeah, in my clothes, and many of the clothing that like I had to wear to work in the corporate world and professionally was it's like, it was always tied to like itchy and like, it was like and so recently, it's because I've become a coach and people talk about branding and blah, blah, blah. And one of the reasons I still haven't done a lot of branding work, is that the clothes don't feel good to me.

Well, that is your and feel Yeah, in your body. It's like I yeah, I live on the west coast of Canada, in the small little town and I live in leggings and great cozy shirts. And yes, you know, and that is actually who I am I so my brand is, is uncomfortable. It's cozy. It's pleasure in my body, right? I love like the shirt I'm wearing right now. It's really soft. And I love soft clothing. Like I love how it feels. It's so cozy. That is my brand. So that is your brand. Oh, right, exactly.

And I agree, you know, like, oh, yeah, like I don't. And I've just been like, No, I don't want to do that. I want to do that. Because what it looks like, to others is not as important to me as how it feels on my skin. Yeah, flesh creature, literally. And I just feel like if it feels good, I put it on. So And sometimes what feels good is like, it looks corporate, sometimes it looks I don't know, feminine. Sometimes it looks, you know, sort of masculine. Sometimes it looks like really dressed down. And I'm like, Yeah, but it feels good. And like you said that is that is the brand. And I think just women having permission to make more and more of those definitions around what we wear, what we put on what we do to our bodies, procedures that we choose. Yep. Not in it come from that place of like, Oh, my bodies for my pleasure. How I look is for my pleasure. First and foremost. Yeah, and then go from there.

Absolutely, totally. And I also do want to put in like, it's okay, to want to. I want to be careful how I word this, whatever you interpreted as you I think everyone will understand my intention. But it's like, it's okay to want to look attractive to your spouse to your partner. Right? Like, I I do dress sometimes in ways that I know that my partner loves, right? I'll wear certain pants that he's like, Oh, your butt looks great. And those are, you know, and that is okay. And that's part of your pleasure as well. Because you're you can it's not like for him, it's foreign you got

and it's a both and so whatever it is you're wearing in that moment, is attracted to him. And in your pleasure.

Exactly. And that's where I think tuning into your body. Does this feel good to me? Or am I just doing this for him? Right? But it's like, no, this actually, I feel great in this and it's fun, and he thinks I look sexy and woowoo right. So it is I think it really is coming back to again, that that curiosity and feeling it as your truth and then being free with it being free. And just loving this vessel that you that your soul is having this journey in. Right like our bodies, I love to think of ourselves as it's like, I remember growing up and learning about the Trinity like in church as far as like the eggs, right? So you have like, the three parts of the Trinity and like, and if someone didn't, right, get raised in the church, whatever, that doesn't matter. But you know, for this analogy, if you don't understand it, that's okay. But it's like there's three parts. There's the shell, there's the the white and there's the yolk. It's the same for us, right? I think of us as like, we are soul spirit creatures, we are this energetic being that happens to be having a ride on Earth, in the body. So that's the second part. And then we have our brain, which is the third part that gets to kind of carry us through and make these decisions. You know, so I think it's so important to go for like what's right for me. And you feel that in your heart, your hearts mind what is right. And for me, this is your soul speaking, what is my definition of beauty? What is pleasurable to me what is right for me, that is my soul, I feel that in my heart, and then we use our mind, our brains mind, to help us move in that direction. So this is how we the three parts can like Interplay together and carry us through in this human experience in a very powerful soul centered, heart centered, dynamic way. And when we can tap into that and really live in that all, we all just opens up for us. Yes, yes. And

it's an individual journey. Yes, it is. It really is. Because especially because you have to go inward. You have to look at what what is my body for and I think sometimes we especially when we're like on this growth journey, so we're on this growth journey, and maybe we're following coaches or reading books, and we're like trying to learn how to do this that we're talking about. And sometimes along the way We hear something. And the frame of reference, that can be a mismatch in the frame of reference in what we're being taught about, like, how to love our bodies and what it actually means. Like sometimes things get lost in translation. And then sometimes the MIS translation gets propagated throughout social media. And I wanted to kind of, you know, bring that up, because you just beautifully described what that journey looks like. And a woman can go on that journey and be like, Oh, I love my body. And then she goes on social media and says, Hey, everybody, you need to love your body. But she doesn't describe that journey the way you did. Yeah. And I've seen it get propagated as like, what some people are labeling, the positive body positivity movement, which is a good thing, by the way. However, I just want to throw out that there's a lot of nuance to what that might look like for the individual. Because I know women who are standing in front of the mirror, naked telling themselves I love my body. I love my body. I love my body. But the under the subtext to that statement is, even though it's round, even though my boobs sag, even though, absolutely, but they're trying to get to this, like, wonderful level of loving their body, and they're wondering why it's so hard for them. And then it almost feeds the thinking again, yeah, I can't love my body because my body isn't right, other people. I see Lizzo she loves her body, right? And she's able to love her body and sing about being a curvy woman and everything and I'm trying to do that here. It's not working. So there must be something wrong with me. And and

also that thing, okay, I love my body. I love my body. I love my body. And then it's like, okay, this is I want to put eyelashes on. Okay. Exactly like it. What how does this go then? And yeah, and so absolute body neutrality? Yeah, I know that. There you go.

I wanted to bring that up. Even the definition of body neutrality is like still such a, an individual like so. We don't want to start a boy body neutrality movement. We want to offer body positivity, body neutrality, the whole spectrum of landing spots for women to choose. Absolutely the you can choose what the end of this journey looks like for you. Doesn't have to look like anyone else. Like for me. I mean, I love my body, but not in the way people like just because I don't have a frame of reference that's very much about like, external beauty and things like that. Like, that's not my landing spot. My landing spot. I think if I were to describe it, is it health? Is my body healthy? Do I feel good in it? Do I feel energetic? Do I feel like I can get up and go, you know, like, all of that I hate waking up in the morning morning and not feeling like 99% of like, to me that's like, and then I guess you could say for me, it's like, am I presentable? Maybe that I've never put any words, but my landing spot is some combination. And every once in a while I'm gonna look amazing, but like, not, it's not a big deal. So it's our landing spots. The end quote unquote, end of the journey is going to be different for every single woman.

Mm hm. And that goes back to your own internal truth. Right? Yeah. And yeah, for me, body neutrality has been a huge, huge part of my journey of going. Yeah, it doesn't have I don't have to love everything. I don't have to be like, you know, because there's this idea of, okay, I'm coaching women in this all day. And, oh, am I out of integrity? If I look in the mirror and go, Oh, my goodness, like, Oh, my thighs or whatever, right? And it's like, Right, no, that's okay. And it goes back to that, okay, sweetheart, like I'm holding my hands like a cup. Because this is one of the primary tools that I teach and that I use is like putting your yourself your little self like all of this stuff, and all of who you are in your hands and looking okay, like reparent yourself through it. Right? So for me, it's like, right, my eyes are neutral. And society's gonna tell me things about them. Right, and I have this conditioning about them. And I get to choose how I want to think about them because they really are just neutral. So coming back to that has been huge, huge for me. And, and the respect part, the respect and that appreciation that's so much huge. You know, like sometimes we're never going to be able to get to the place of I love maybe parts of your body or whatever, but we can always go in and I believe it's available to us to appreciate and to respect right like look,

do I love such marks?

I love what they brought.

I love Yes. You know,

I love the experience of being pregnan t. I loved pregnant then it was I just felt This whole beautiful and really sexy when I was pregnant, it was a very amazing time for me in my body. And then so looking now at the stretch marks and stuff, it's like, wow, do I love this? I can't say I do. I'm not like these stretch marks. Yeah, but I love the memory that they bring me on my pregnancies. Right? I love these little people now big people, big teenagers in my house that, you know, that did that in me like in their growth. And it's like, I can respect and yeah, there's an I'm actually it's interesting because I am feeling like this, like softness and this element of love, you know, in my body right now for that. And, but this is the journey and staying curious with it and and being able to go right? Yeah, what would that look like for me? What would love actually look like? You know, even I love what you

said about respect and appreciation? Because I think I think and this is my opinion, I think that is accessible to all of us to respect our bodies. And to appreciate our bodies.

I had one client who, who actually said I can't respect like her death, but she had a lot of triggers around even that word respect. Right? Okay, got it. That makes sense. Yes. Yeah, frame of reference is important, again, absolutely is it but appreciate It's something she could hold on to. Right. So so

we didn't have children think about it. Like right now. If you are listening to this, your body is doing something it is like totally doing its work your ears. Or if you're using captions or whatever, are reading the transcript, your body is performing an act of service for you in this moment.

This is our like, it's it's our ride on this earth.

Like you were talking about the stretch marks and what I was thinking was, I'm gonna have stretch marks I don't think about them so much. But I was like, thinking about my belly, I was like, it is holding all of my organs in right now. Mm hmm. 100% My, my organs are not spilling out on the floor. Because of my theme, it thank you body, keeping my liver in

it is and then I love because of the embodiment part, right? Like when we really become embodied creatures, these flesh creatures, whatever your password called it, I love that, right? But it's like, when we can start to wake up the senses, externally and internally. And really like go Oh, my goodness body you are capable of so much feeling. And I get to experience the world and my life through these internal and external felt senses. That is a gift that your body alone gives you nothing else, you can't experience that without this body. So it is it's so good. Going into this primal state of like

our this is yeah, and intentionally and I know this is a little bit of a side digression, but I think it will be helpful, intentionally leaning into that experience. So my therapist said, Hey, okay, let's go. Let's go to your senses. Because, you know, I was I was having challenges like, I mean, for many, many years childhood, first mind was very disconnected from my body for all the reasons that we know. She was like, okay, so you're, this go through all your senses. How can you lean into connecting through your senses and experiencing pleasure? She's like, What do you like to smell? And it was like, okay, okay. Okay, Mike, I like essential oils. I'm gonna essential. I was about to say, I'm not an essential oils dealer. Totally. I have a dealer.

I have a dealer as well.

But yes. I realized that I happen to have all kinds of oils, but I wasn't intentionally saying, Okay, I'm done with work tonight. I'm gonna grab my lavender and just like, lean into that, grab a candle and turn it on. And then she's like, okay, so then what do you like to listen to? And I was like, I like classical music. I like this kind of gospel music. I like this kind of music, I jazz and she's like, Okay, put it on your calendar. Turn on some jazz music on Saturday morning. Because therapists that is amazing. She and she went through all of my senses. And then we added on movement. How do I like to move? What kind of movement is pleasurable to my body? I was like, I love yoga, dance, and she's like you she's like chatter. You have got to put these on your calendar because you have been disconnected for so long. Your brain doesn't go there. Your brain does not intentionally, schedule and remind you to lean into your bodily experience. Okay, It's just been life changing.

Yes, embodiment Is it is it absolutely is and and can I add to this? What? Yes, ma'am. Okay, please. So there's a practice that I love called Primal feminine flow. So what your therapist was talking about, most of that is like the external senses. So you're experience something, and then you're, you're, you're bringing it in. Okay? So primal feminine flow takes you deep into your internal senses. So, just a little basic, sort of Coles notes, I think in the US, called the Cliff Notes, Canada, we call it Coles notes. So anyways, like little Coles Notes version, you get on all fours, and you put on music that moves you, right, just like the music that you're talking about. I have like a whole Oh, my gosh, you can put it in your shows, notes, show notes. It's called a body and in music that I use for this practice that I share with my clients, okay? So if you want that can be a gift. It's on Spotify. So anyways, you get on all fours, and you start listening. And you first of all you breathe, you just breathe. And you allow yourself to go in to your emotions, these feelings that you're feeling in side your body. And this can be really hard to do at first when we're disconnected. But let's start waking ourselves up waking this, these sensations up. And so notice how am I feeling right? What are the What am I feeling as far as emotions, and this is the I say this because it's the best way to start to kind of like, get into it. Okay, so it's like, okay, right now I'm feeling I'm feeling sad. Okay, where do I feel that in my body, I feel that and I don't actually feel sad, right? Now, this is an example, right? But it's like, okay, I feel that in my stomach, or I'm feeling that in my shoulders. Okay, I'm gonna move in to my shoulders. I'm going to feel this through movement in my stomach. So I might curve my body, I might like, go into a fetal position. So whatever you're feeling internally, as in the sensations, you move your body to accentuate it, you move into like, really, like, go into that more, I'm feeling angry. I'm going to clench my fists, and I'm going to like, oh, tense up my body, and then I'm going to relax. Ah, right. So all of these are, I'm feeling super essential, okay, I'm gonna move like this, I'm gonna flow. So primal feminine flow, it's nonlinear. So like with yoga, there's okay, you're doing your flows, right. And this is great. And you might use some yoga practices in this practice in this experience, but this is about getting out of your mind and into your body, letting her move. Okay. And then the other parts. We talked about breath, movement, and then there's sound. So we want to write I'm feeling sad. Oh, right. Or I'm feeling sensual. Um, okay. So you allow your sensations of internal to be expressed through your breath, movement and sound. And you don't have to have music on but it definitely does. If you can get a playlist like the one I'm going to share or whatever, create one for yourself. That feels really connected to you that makes your body go. Okay, I want to move here. Right? So you can also you don't have to do it on all fours. But I love that because it's very primal. Right? It's getting into there like this. Yeah, you know this? Well, we are we are

kind of animals. We are no, we are Yeah, mammals. So there is a part of us that is very much biology and just flesh.

Yes, exactly. And I think another thing else, I'll say with this is watch your movements and just get curious with no judgment. It's just like, oh, let's hear for me. When I started doing this, I noticed I would kind of move more sensually often than not. And that was actually a conditioning that I realized was happening of like, this is what is beautiful for a female body kind of like this is and I still do that and it does feel wonderful. But it's like sometimes we need to move in anger. Sometimes we need to do what might appear to look like ugly now you know, that's a whatever word but like not pleasing to the other person or anyone's i This is for you and for you alone. This is for you and for you alone, and allowing your body to move in the way that she wants to. This builds so much like deep trust in yourself, your relationship will strengthen. You will start to wake up these internal felt senses and be able to tune into your emotions more be able to move through your emotions and process The more like, I believe that this practice is one of the most powerful things we can do for ourselves in all areas, especially our body image, for sure.

Oh, wow, that was amazing. What a gift. I am, like, riveted, I'm like, No, but that that I was like internal senses. I'm like, yeah. And never thought about my internal senses. Like,

oh my god, we're taught to think to suppress them right as and when we're so focused on our external appearance. We eat we do lose connection with what our body is actually here for and those internal felt senses. It is a whole other universe that we are not taught. It's actually very embodied as little girls, I would say, most of us, like we move and we feel and we arousal, and you know, all the things and these are like taught, like they're pushed out of us. They're conditioned out of us.

Girls don't do that. Little girls don't do that. Like that's not cute. Yeah,

yeah. So this comes back to that. And it's a whole part of us that we get to rediscover and reawaken. And it is mind blowing, to say the least.

Yes, ma'am. That was mind blowing. Thank you, Chanci, for sharing that. And this is probably a good place to just like, yeah, wrap up. Yeah. You feel completely is that was beautiful. Yes, that was beautiful. And how if we may want to, like experience this, you know, embodied feminine flow, just learn this practice of connecting with your internal senses. Again, you know, everything else we've talked about that I know you work on, your kind of nutrition, you work on them and body and you have this flow, you have your four pillars? Where can they find you to like learn more of I'm obviously learning about them like wow, that's like an embodiment, feminine, embody feminine flow.

Feminine flow, my MO, not quite the coach for you yet. However. You can find me at Chanci dawn.com. That's my website, and Instagram, come play with me on Instagram. It's something that you know, I'm having a lot more fun on. It used to kind of intimidate me as like, oh my gosh, and but yeah, I'm just that's where you live. I'm on there. I'm on there. So come on there, connect with me drop message me if you want to connect, you know, more personally. And I just, I just love connecting with women who are ready for this work? Absolutely. So

much. And you know, as you were talking about, oh, I also have a podcast.

Oh, yes. Yes. It tastes like freedom. That's my podcast. And so yes, that would be a great place to connect as well and go deeper with this work for sure.

Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for for sharing Chanci. You know, as you were talking, just then I was like, it almost sounds like I have a I have a part of my work where I teach my clients to reconnect with their intuition. And I was like, I think this is like a piece of that app that I don't have in there just now. And I'm like, okay. Okay. So yeah, because you train, which, you know, when they're listening to themselves about the guy that they're dating and things like that, and just the conditioning to shut that off to make it more pleasing to change. And I have a process that I walk them through, but I was like, what, how much could that be magnified? If they had like, a piece of, you know, a physical practice?

Mm hmm.

You know, as part of that, so, yeah, we'll probably be talking about that.

I do love it.

Alright, listeners. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Chanci, thank you for being here. Everyone, we appreciate you so much. We appreciate your time and attention. We will see you next time.