Feb. 26, 2024

Understanding and Dealing with Negativity Bias with Guest Cheryl Brewster | HR 68

Understanding and Dealing with Negativity Bias with Guest Cheryl Brewster | HR 68

Episode Intro:

Ever find yourself constantly ruminating over a comment where you felt criticized, still fuming over that driver that gave you the finger on your way to work, really down over that disappointing performance review, and hypersensitive over what felt like a disappointed look towards you from your boss. Do you, like me, tend to brush off compliments, focus on the poor grade you received instead of the good ones, and look to the next goal without really recognizing and celebrating the one you just accomplished???? You are not alone.


It’s actually an evolutionary thing and one that guest Cheryl Brewster has delved into to find not only the “why” but also tools that we can be using to stop negativity bias in its tracks – we need to be modelling this – because when we help ourselves, we also help those we lead – and love!


Join us to learn more!!!


About Cheryl Brewster:


As a Transition Specialist, Transformational Speaker, and Spiritual Mentor, Cheryl inspires individuals and organizations keen to make big differences in the world, to find the hidden treasure within challenge.  


Cheryl’s story is one of extraordinary trust and the ability to ride the waves of change. In 2004 she left a successful career in the corporate world to “follow a calling” and founded The Intuitive Life to provide intuitive consultations, workshops, and training to both individuals and organizations.


In 2010 a family health crisis plunged her deep into her own “dark night of the soul,” testing every ounce of her faith and stamina. As a result, Cheryl discovered that with the right mindset, severe challenges can be catalysts for powerful, positive change.


Widely respected for her talents and abilities, Cheryl possesses the rare gift of inspiring the best in people and organizations for better outcomes, communication, connection, and resiliency.


Through her intuitive consultations, workshops, seminars, speaking, and coaching programs, she works with individuals and business groups to foster empowered decision making, creativity, improved working relationships and practical, strategies for meaningful, creative solutions.


Over the course of her career as a personal and business intuitive, Cheryl has consulted with and coached, executives and leaders in social and business projects, including company directors, naturopaths, entrepreneurs, local government, and small business.


Clients who work with Cheryl come away inspired, transformed and fully committed to living the deeper meaning of their lives with increased clarity, confidence, and self-trust.


Connect with Cheryl:


Email:           Cheryl@TheIntuitiveLife.com

Website:       https://theintuitivelife.com/

Facebook:    https://www.facebook.com/TheIntuitiveLife

LinkedIn:      https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherylbrewster1/

Facebook:    https://www.facebook.com/IntuitiveCelebrations

Twitter:         https://twitter.com/IntuitiveCheryl


About the Host:

Susan has worked with people all her life. As a human resource professional, she has specialized in all aspects of employment, from hiring to retirement. She got her start as a national representative for a large Canadian union. After pursuing an undergrad degree in business administration, Susan transitioned to HR management, where she aspired to bring

both employee and management perspectives to her work. Susan holds a Master of Arts degree in Leadership and Training. She retired from her multi-decade career in HR to pursue writing and consulting, and to be able, in her words, to “colour outside the lines.” She promises some fun and lots of learning through this podcast series. 

Susan is also the author of the book Leadership Inside Out: Effecting Change from

Within available on Amazon – click below

Leadership Inside Out: Effecting Change from Within: Ney, Susan G: 9781777030162: Books - Amazon.ca


If you wish to contact Susan, she can be reached through any of the following:

Website:          Home - Effecting Change from Within

Email:               susangney@gmail.com

Linked In:         www.linkedin.com/in/susan-ney-197494

Facebook:        www.facebook.com/susan.ney.5/

Phone:            (604) 341-5643


Thanks for listening!

It means so much that you listened to this podcast!  If you know of anyone else who might find this series of interest, please share. If you have questions about this episode, please send me an email at susangney@gmail.com


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Transcript
Susan Ney:

Hi. Welcome to the podcast HR inside out. I'm your

Susan Ney:

host Susan Bay. And my guest today is Cheryl Brewster, a

Susan Ney:

reinvention specialist. And I'm going to tell you a little bit

Susan Ney:

more about Sheryl. First of all, welcome.

Cheryl Brewster:

Thank you, Susan.

Susan Ney:

For our listeners who are expecting this to be a

Susan Ney:

podcast on work different 10 truths for winning in the people

Susan Ney:

age. Kate bravery will be joining us on the march podcast,

Susan Ney:

not this month as originally anticipated. So hopefully you'll

Susan Ney:

join in next month. But today, we are very, very lucky to have

Susan Ney:

Cheryl here. And she's going to talk to us about something that

Susan Ney:

can so easily get in the way of our being able to present our

Susan Ney:

very best that of negativity bias. So Cheryl, I can't wait to

Susan Ney:

dive in. But first of all, I'd like to say a little bit about

Susan Ney:

you if you're okay with that. transition specialist at

Susan Ney:

transformational speaker a spiritual mentor. Cheryl

Susan Ney:

inspires individuals and organizations keen to make a big

Susan Ney:

difference in the world, and to find the hidden treasure in

Susan Ney:

challenge. Now Cheryl's story is one of extraordinary trust and

Susan Ney:

the ability to ride the waves of change. In 2004, she left a

Susan Ney:

successful career in the corporate world to follow a

Susan Ney:

calling. She at that point founded the intuitive life and

Susan Ney:

through that provides intuitive consultations, workshops,

Susan Ney:

seminars, speaking and coaching programs. She works to foster

Susan Ney:

empowered decision making encourages creativity, improved

Susan Ney:

working relationships, and practical strategies for

Susan Ney:

meaningful and creative solutions. Now, in 2010, a

Susan Ney:

family health crisis plunged Cheryl, deep into her own dark

Susan Ney:

night of the soul, testing every ounce of her faith and her

Susan Ney:

stamina. As a result, Cheryl discovered with the right

Susan Ney:

mindset, severe challenges can be catalysts to both powerful

Susan Ney:

and positive change. She is widely respected for her talents

Susan Ney:

and abilities, she possesses a rare gift of inspiring the very

Susan Ney:

best in both people and organizations, finding better

Susan Ney:

outcomes communication, connection and resiliency. She

Susan Ney:

has over the course of her career, consulted and coached

Susan Ney:

individuals, executives, leaders, and social and business

Susan Ney:

projects, company directors, naturopaths entrepreneurs, the

Susan Ney:

list goes on. clients who've worked with Cheryl come away,

Susan Ney:

inspired, transformed and fully committed to living the deeper

Susan Ney:

meaning of their lives with increased clarity, confidence

Susan Ney:

and self trust. And I know that that's certainly been my

Susan Ney:

experience with her. I also know that she's a lifelong learner.

Susan Ney:

And I know that she's currently working on her instructional

Susan Ney:

diploma. And through that she shared some research from one of

Susan Ney:

the assignments that she has been doing, it certainly caught

Susan Ney:

my attention. And so I asked her to join us and talk more about

Susan Ney:

her learning and her insights. Starting with Cheryl, if we

Susan Ney:

could, what is negativity bias? And then let's move to like

Susan Ney:

jumping right in? Why is it so important for us to understand

Susan Ney:

this? And what are some tools that we should be having in our

Susan Ney:

toolkits to actually deal with it? So I am so excited to learn

Susan Ney:

about this. And to share that with our listeners, over to you

Susan Ney:

please, enough for me.

Cheryl Brewster:

Well, thank you so much for having me as a

Cheryl Brewster:

guest, I appreciate the work that you're doing and really

Cheryl Brewster:

inspiring people in working communities and you know, just

Cheryl Brewster:

to lead from their best selves. So I think negativity bias is

Cheryl Brewster:

hugely important to understand because it does have a

Cheryl Brewster:

biological physical component that I think is easy to forget.

Cheryl Brewster:

Because, you know, if we look at negativity bias, it's related to

Cheryl Brewster:

worry, fear, you know, anxiety and in all those, what I call

Cheryl Brewster:

the hairball of the soul emotions. So, what I appreciated

Cheryl Brewster:

in my research was the neuroscience behind what it is

Cheryl Brewster:

and where it evolves from. So basically, scientists believe

Cheryl Brewster:

that we have a built in negativity bias from you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

the brain is concerned, especially the the left

Cheryl Brewster:

hemisphere of the brain is concerned with keeping the body

Cheryl Brewster:

safe. So it literally goes on overdrive, it's looking looking

Cheryl Brewster:

for the threats to keep us safe. So if that's not kind of

Cheryl Brewster:

balanced out with the right hand side of the brain, the creative

Cheryl Brewster:

side, the you know, the side that sees the bigger picture, we

Cheryl Brewster:

can get ourselves into real Trouble. So from the research

Cheryl Brewster:

that I found it a really good metaphor to think of it this

Cheryl Brewster:

way, that, you know, we evolved over millions of years, and we

Cheryl Brewster:

were dodging threats. So if you think of dodging sticks, we were

Cheryl Brewster:

dodging threats, and we were chasing food or chasing carrot.

Cheryl Brewster:

So it's a lot more, it's more important to notice and react to

Cheryl Brewster:

remember the threats or the sticks than it is, you know, the

Cheryl Brewster:

comfort or the carrots. So, in the tough environments our

Cheryl Brewster:

ancestors lived, they missed out on the carrot, right. So we got

Cheryl Brewster:

in the habit of not noticing the carrots, and instead focusing on

Cheryl Brewster:

these threats. And before you know it, whoa, we have in our

Cheryl Brewster:

genetic DNA, this this propensity to look for the

Cheryl Brewster:

negative and what you look for, you'll find. So negativity bias

Cheryl Brewster:

will show up in many ways, in relationships, it usually now

Cheryl Brewster:

the stats are interesting, it usually takes five good

Cheryl Brewster:

interactions to make up for a single bad one. And what can

Cheryl Brewster:

happen in relationship, things can be going really well. And if

Cheryl Brewster:

you're not used to that you will create you will sub self

Cheryl Brewster:

sabotage. So that's why I think it's so important that we really

Cheryl Brewster:

understand, you know, get to the bottom of this so that we don't

Cheryl Brewster:

keep creating these repeating patterns. So in business, you

Cheryl Brewster:

know, people will work work much harder to avoid losing $100, as

Cheryl Brewster:

opposed to making $100. So we're kind of selling ourselves short

Cheryl Brewster:

by focusing on the negative and painful experiences are much

Cheryl Brewster:

more memorable than pleasurable ones. So we kind of want to

Cheryl Brewster:

reverse that. And a good way of looking at negativity bias is

Cheryl Brewster:

that the brain is kind of pre programmed to look for the

Cheryl Brewster:

negative and find it, it's like Velcro. It finds it, it

Cheryl Brewster:

remembers it, it holds it fast. Whereas pleasurable experiences

Cheryl Brewster:

are like Teflon, they just slide right off. It's like, yeah,

Cheryl Brewster:

okay, that was great. But we don't really take the time to

Cheryl Brewster:

go, wow, that was really good. So we can create these very

Cheryl Brewster:

negative self images, the stories we tell ourselves, and

Cheryl Brewster:

goals will come and go, and we'll achieve the goal. But have

Cheryl Brewster:

we really grown? Or are we simply repeating the pattern of

Cheryl Brewster:

needing to prove ourselves. So I've certainly appreciated what

Cheryl Brewster:

I've learned about negativity bias, because it creates

Cheryl Brewster:

awareness, when you have awareness, you have choice. Now,

Cheryl Brewster:

there's one more piece I want to add on negativity bias, when I

Cheryl Brewster:

researched it further, I came across a term that I just loved,

Cheryl Brewster:

it was called negative legacy emotions. And they use the

Cheryl Brewster:

example of cocaine on the brain that irrational guilt shame. And

Cheryl Brewster:

anxiety is kind of like a drug on the brain, it just totally

Cheryl Brewster:

takes you out of your, your prefrontal cortex, where you

Cheryl Brewster:

make executive decision making, and instead, we get a cloudy

Cheryl Brewster:

mind. We're not trusting ourselves, we're feeling

Cheryl Brewster:

insecure, that can that can really escalate and cause some

Cheryl Brewster:

real problems. And we can see that in the workplace where, for

Cheryl Brewster:

example, in the conflict resolution that I'm teaching

Cheryl Brewster:

right now, it's like, whoa, like, where did that come from?

Cheryl Brewster:

Right? On understanding or appreciating that, you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

someone in the workplace, if their knee jerk reaction is not

Cheryl Brewster:

checked, there will be problems. So we want to be very aware of

Cheryl Brewster:

how we can handle those conflicts from the inside out,

Cheryl Brewster:

which is okay, you know, what am I feeling using mindfulness

Cheryl Brewster:

techniques, etc. So, the nuts and bolts is that, in order for

Cheryl Brewster:

us to really work with this, there's a real opportunity here,

Cheryl Brewster:

which I think is very exciting. So we take a look at these

Cheryl Brewster:

negative legacy, Legacy emotions, because they're

Cheryl Brewster:

irrational. And one of the terms that I found that I just loved

Cheryl Brewster:

is that these are pre historic emotions. And they have no place

Cheryl Brewster:

in our our current lives. And so we have to create an absolute,

Cheryl Brewster:

uncompromising rule, to not take orders from irrational guilt,

Cheryl Brewster:

shame and anxiety. So what that means is, we need to create a

Cheryl Brewster:

habit of embedding optimism in the brain. So we can talk more

Cheryl Brewster:

about that but for now, that's why I think it's so important

Cheryl Brewster:

the more we know and understand, the more we can not take this

Cheryl Brewster:

quite so personally, when you know that there's a biology at

Cheryl Brewster:

play or you know, guilt is a pretty insidious emotion because

Cheryl Brewster:

you're trying to do better and be, you know, your best self and

Cheryl Brewster:

when you find your You're not that unreviewable rule of nope,

Cheryl Brewster:

I'm not going to listen to the voice wants to, you know, put me

Cheryl Brewster:

down. It's like this open and shut rule. Like this door, that

Cheryl Brewster:

slam says nope, nope, not allowed to enter. So. And this

Cheryl Brewster:

is where I think that we can really create opportunity by

Cheryl Brewster:

using the power of decision to make that rule. And then to also

Cheryl Brewster:

make the rule that I am committed to living my best

Cheryl Brewster:

self. And, you know, mistakes are a part of learning. So when

Cheryl Brewster:

we look for the learning, we have growth, but if we're not

Cheryl Brewster:

willing to do that, then we're gonna stay stagnant. In fact,

Cheryl Brewster:

we're gonna go down, because we're designed to grow. And if

Cheryl Brewster:

we're not willing to, you know, to use this in a productive way,

Cheryl Brewster:

we're kind of, we're kind of toast.

Susan Ney:

That makes so much sense. And I love the, the

Susan Ney:

skeleton, the, the Velcro, I just, I think of performance

Susan Ney:

reviews, you know, and how, I don't know that people hear so

Susan Ney:

many of the positives if there's something that's a growth

Susan Ney:

opportunity, and and how so frequently, we perceive that

Susan Ney:

it's just a negative. Yeah, you're in, you're right, you

Susan Ney:

reaching the goals, I don't know that we pat ourselves about the

Susan Ney:

milestones we do tend to focus on, you know, the things that

Susan Ney:

went wrong. I mean, there's that there's a positive about that,

Susan Ney:

because it's the learning and the, what could we do

Susan Ney:

differently or better next time. But as you talk, and what I love

Susan Ney:

is learning that this is all part of this is part of, like,

Susan Ney:

literally years and years and years and years of programming.

Susan Ney:

And we really reflect that also within our school systems. You

Susan Ney:

know, I know my dad caught the sea, and the, you know, good

Susan Ney:

marks, and then you get a bad mark, or what happened here. And

Susan Ney:

so we do tend to reinforce that. But again, that would be

Susan Ney:

natural, because that's been our heritage. So what I'm hearing

Susan Ney:

you say is that, yeah, it's natural that we'd be feeling

Susan Ney:

this this negativity bias. But what we need to be paying

Susan Ney:

attention to is catching ourselves doing it, recognizing

Susan Ney:

where it's coming from, and then making a choice to do

Susan Ney:

differently going forward.

Cheryl Brewster:

Exactly. Yeah. So knowing that we're kind of

Cheryl Brewster:

pre programmed, it's like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm going

Cheryl Brewster:

to be aware that I don't have to keep doing this.

Susan Ney:

When you shared with me a PowerPoint presentation for

Susan Ney:

one of the classes that that you're doing, and you talked

Susan Ney:

about the importance of reflection, and that's, that's

Susan Ney:

part of this catching yourself and recognizing is like, I don't

Susan Ney:

have to keep going down the same, the same road with this

Susan Ney:

stuff. And you You referenced, I don't know who do he is, but you

Susan Ney:

talked about Dewey's four criteria for reflection. And

Susan Ney:

it's very much a self awareness piece, probably the emotional

Susan Ney:

intelligence as well. Can you tell us a little bit more about

Susan Ney:

what are these four criteria that in that reflecting process

Susan Ney:

we should be paying attention to?

Cheryl Brewster:

Absolutely. John Dewey was the probably the

Cheryl Brewster:

most influential figure in the past century in regards to

Cheryl Brewster:

education. So he, he's a, it was fascinating to research his

Cheryl Brewster:

life. And basically, the four criteria for reflection that he

Cheryl Brewster:

came up to is, and the reason reflection is so important is

Cheryl Brewster:

that number one, it creates a bridge of meaning. And so what

Cheryl Brewster:

it does is that it helps us make continuity of learning possible,

Cheryl Brewster:

it ensures that progress, so we learn from our mistakes. So we

Cheryl Brewster:

we keep moving forward, or we learn, you know, hey, that went

Cheryl Brewster:

really well. I'll do that again. So the first thing is, is it's

Cheryl Brewster:

the bridge of meaning. And when we find meaning, you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

that's, that's basically our values come alive. It's what

Cheryl Brewster:

keeps us alive. So I really appreciated that as I did the

Cheryl Brewster:

research and did my own reflective writing practices for

Cheryl Brewster:

the class and then share that PowerPoint. We something that

Cheryl Brewster:

John Dewey said is that experiences don't transform us.

Cheryl Brewster:

It's reflecting on the experiences that transform. So

Cheryl Brewster:

from my own experience of working deeper with a reflective

Cheryl Brewster:

process, it's true, like I was amazed and very grateful to go

Cheryl Brewster:

deeper into my own reflection because I I've found a lot of

Cheryl Brewster:

insight that I would have missed otherwise. So number one, the

Cheryl Brewster:

bridge of meeting number two, the reflection is systematic,

Cheryl Brewster:

rigorous, disciplined, and rooted in scientific inquiry.

Cheryl Brewster:

And I like that too, because it's literally about telling the

Cheryl Brewster:

truth to yourself. And, you know, that's a courageous act,

Cheryl Brewster:

which ties into the scale of consciousness, which is a

Cheryl Brewster:

different matter. But the, the work of David Hawkins, where all

Cheryl Brewster:

the negative emotion that we're dealing with, as soon as we have

Cheryl Brewster:

courage, we rise up that scale of consciousness, we rise up

Cheryl Brewster:

that scale of emotion. And I think that really ties into this

Cheryl Brewster:

because even though you might have a really negative emotion

Cheryl Brewster:

that you're feeling, it's like, it's okay, this is part of

Cheryl Brewster:

evolution, this is part of growth. So it becomes a very

Cheryl Brewster:

empowered way of making true change in your life. So that's

Cheryl Brewster:

the second criteria for reflective inquiry, which is

Cheryl Brewster:

that it's systematic, it's rigorous, it's disciplined, it's

Cheryl Brewster:

not this fluffy stuff. The third thing is that it needs now this

Cheryl Brewster:

was fascinating. It needs to happen in community. Oh,

Cheryl Brewster:

interesting. Yeah, that I love that because you know, me, I

Cheryl Brewster:

teach all the classes, everyone sharing, but so the third

Cheryl Brewster:

criteria is that needs to happen in community in interaction with

Cheryl Brewster:

others. And then the fourth one that that ties into that is that

Cheryl Brewster:

it requires attitudes that value the personal and the

Cheryl Brewster:

intellectual growth of self and others. So Fascinating, isn't

Cheryl Brewster:

it, that in order for true transformation to occur, you

Cheryl Brewster:

need to reflect on it, and then you need to share it.

Susan Ney:

So the community piece, because that can be

Susan Ney:

tough, especially if you're dealing with stuff that you're

Susan Ney:

not feeling comfortable with? What what might that look like

Susan Ney:

in a work environment? But that'd be with a colleague,

Susan Ney:

would that be? I guess it would be situational. But can you

Susan Ney:

think of an example? Yeah,

Cheryl Brewster:

well, in a, in a work environment, you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

and I think that this comes back to how we do anything is how we

Cheryl Brewster:

do everything, whether it's a person or an organization. So I

Cheryl Brewster:

think the first question is to be aware, like, how am I

Cheryl Brewster:

feeling? Do I feel like I'm in a threatening situation, because

Cheryl Brewster:

our lens will color our perception. So in a work

Cheryl Brewster:

situation, it's okay, if I'm telling the truth to myself,

Cheryl Brewster:

then having the skill set to be able to communicate that truth

Cheryl Brewster:

to somebody else in a mutually respectful way. So this is

Cheryl Brewster:

where, you know, we have nonviolent communication. And we

Cheryl Brewster:

also I think, have a piece of emotional intelligence here,

Cheryl Brewster:

which is to say, you don't know what's going on in someone's

Cheryl Brewster:

day. And remembering that negativity bias, kind of is a is

Cheryl Brewster:

a real clue to how personally am I taking this? Take this as

Cheryl Brewster:

personally as I am. And I think that's where we really get into

Cheryl Brewster:

trouble.

Susan Ney:

And love the reminder too, that we really don't know

Susan Ney:

what's happening on somebody else's world. Yeah. And yeah,

Susan Ney:

are part of self awareness. And I would think reflection would

Susan Ney:

be one of the tools to deal with negativity bias, you talk about

Susan Ney:

a number of other tools that are very helpful for people when

Susan Ney:

they are finding themselves in kind of that space.

Cheryl Brewster:

Yeah. So what I did in my PowerPoint was put

Cheryl Brewster:

together, okay, these are quick, fast, easy tools that have a

Cheryl Brewster:

scientific basis for them. They work based in science. So the

Cheryl Brewster:

first thing is to breathe. You know, and just that, that breath

Cheryl Brewster:

that sort of three breaths just to slow down the physiology.

Cheryl Brewster:

Now, here's the interesting thing about negative emotion is

Cheryl Brewster:

that bang, before you know it, it's there. Like it's fast. So,

Cheryl Brewster:

so a big part of reflection then is reviewing your day, what went

Cheryl Brewster:

well? What would you do differently? And also to

Cheryl Brewster:

rehearse if that situation happened again, how would you

Cheryl Brewster:

handle it this time? And that goes a long way in really

Cheryl Brewster:

supporting effective conflict resolution, because at the end

Cheryl Brewster:

of the day, you know, sure people make mistakes, but we all

Cheryl Brewster:

make mistakes. And I think a great way of looking at how

Cheryl Brewster:

personally we take things is you know, It often says more about

Cheryl Brewster:

us than it does the other person. Because you're in charge

Cheryl Brewster:

of your destiny, not somebody else. True. Oh. So catch

Cheryl Brewster:

yourself know that the negativity bias is going to be

Cheryl Brewster:

there. And course correct as fast as you can. And how do you

Cheryl Brewster:

do that? Number one, the breath. And number two, I love this

Cheryl Brewster:

exercise, letting the good in. So again, if we go back to

Cheryl Brewster:

positive, negative bias and emotion, the other example to

Cheryl Brewster:

use is, when good things happen to you, it's kind of like water

Cheryl Brewster:

going through a sieve in the brain, it just goes right

Cheryl Brewster:

through, you're not noticing, because you're not our genetics

Cheryl Brewster:

are trained, trained not to notice. Whereas if it's

Cheryl Brewster:

something negative, it's like a chunk of coal, it's in that

Cheryl Brewster:

sieve, and it, it's a big one. And so. So the thing to do then

Cheryl Brewster:

is to take 1020 30 seconds, Max doesn't take long to let the

Cheryl Brewster:

good in. So to notice what was good about your life that day,

Cheryl Brewster:

and not only to notice it, but use that 10 or 20 seconds to

Cheryl Brewster:

just really breathe and, and savor it. Like Like, even right

Cheryl Brewster:

now, we all did that and just went, Yeah, that was good today,

Cheryl Brewster:

that didn't feel good today. And it's incredibly fast. So the

Cheryl Brewster:

science is saying do that six times a day, you're embedding

Cheryl Brewster:

positive, you're embedding the good, you're noticing the good

Cheryl Brewster:

more, which means that your quality of your experience is

Cheryl Brewster:

increasing as well. So when you feel better, you're more

Cheryl Brewster:

optimistic, you're looking for the good, you're more creative,

Cheryl Brewster:

the prefrontal cortex is free. It's not bogged down, you have

Cheryl Brewster:

access to it, which is really important for decision making.

Cheryl Brewster:

And you know, post COVID, our whole worlds got changed upside

Cheryl Brewster:

down. We're still dealing with it. So just a reminder, hey, you

Cheryl Brewster:

know what you met, we all went through something big. And so

Cheryl Brewster:

it's like, again, it can be that knee jerk reaction where if you

Cheryl Brewster:

had something traumatic happen, you're on guard, you're looking

Cheryl Brewster:

for it. And so you want you want to balance that out. And you

Cheryl Brewster:

also want to recognize that negativity bias will promote

Cheryl Brewster:

worry, and worry will promote a loss of trust in yourself, and

Cheryl Brewster:

lead to those feelings of low self esteem. And, and I think

Cheryl Brewster:

the big one too, is we can fall into compromising ourselves, and

Cheryl Brewster:

feeling incompetent. And you know, back in the corporate

Cheryl Brewster:

world, I should remember sitting at my desk, you know, I used to

Cheryl Brewster:

work with bills, material and sales, and I'm worried about the

Cheryl Brewster:

formulas Did I do the math, right? And, man, I'd be sitting

Cheryl Brewster:

there literally having a quiet panic attack, looking around

Cheryl Brewster:

everyone else going open, they're so calm. I'm the only

Cheryl Brewster:

one right? Well, it's like, and so I did a real number on myself

Cheryl Brewster:

way back then. And it was needless and painful. So

Cheryl Brewster:

painful. So it's like, okay, I appreciate that, yes, we will go

Cheryl Brewster:

through pain. So let's give it a productive purpose. So we can

Cheryl Brewster:

change the pattern, we could transform that pattern, we can

Cheryl Brewster:

evolve it, we can grow it.

Susan Ney:

And I suspect, as you say, with this being all well

Susan Ney:

documented in scientific research now, that the more you

Susan Ney:

do something like that, where you catch yourself and you, you

Susan Ney:

take a look at the positive or you allow the positive in that

Susan Ney:

you really are building more neural transmitters or whatever

Susan Ney:

they're called, so that it becomes easier to do it with

Susan Ney:

with practice.

Cheryl Brewster:

Exactly. And that's why it's so exciting.

Cheryl Brewster:

Because, I mean, we've been hearing about the neuroscience

Cheryl Brewster:

for years, what wires together fires together. And the truth

Cheryl Brewster:

is, it's like wow, okay, I am actually physically changing my

Cheryl Brewster:

brain by doing this. And so this, this rule, we're like, you

Cheryl Brewster:

know, what do I really want because the clearer we are and

Cheryl Brewster:

and that was a really interesting piece to discover in

Cheryl Brewster:

the research as well. Do we give ourselves permission to know

Cheryl Brewster:

what it is we really want? And, and part of the research so they

Cheryl Brewster:

did to which is the next component is the power of all

Cheryl Brewster:

and wonder.

Susan Ney:

I want to hear more about that. I just, I'd heard

Susan Ney:

So, instead of just saying, how was your day? What good happened

Susan Ney:

to you today? You know, if we started to greet one another

Susan Ney:

with tell me something good that's happened to your you

Susan Ney:

know, if you're a mom, with your kids coming coming home from

Susan Ney:

school, what good happened to you today instead of, you know,

Susan Ney:

how was your day again would start to build that muscle and

Susan Ney:

to make that more natural, and just yeah, just feels good even

Susan Ney:

saying it. Okay. Okay, let's, let's go the water and I'm

Susan Ney:

getting excited.

Cheryl Brewster:

Yeah, cuz you know what wonder and awe are

Cheryl Brewster:

juicy. And it's like, Who wouldn't want that? And it's,

Cheryl Brewster:

it's, it's our birthright, you know, as much as we're wired

Cheryl Brewster:

with a negativity bias. We're also wired for happiness and joy

Cheryl Brewster:

and peace of mind. And, and I, it's just a reminder that that

Cheryl Brewster:

they go together and the wonder and the awe will put us back

Cheryl Brewster:

into, you know, the balance of both sides of the brain. So the

Cheryl Brewster:

research I'm wondering is, is the I mean, look at Einstein,

Cheryl Brewster:

and Imagination is more important than knowledge. When

Cheryl Brewster:

we go into the wonder and the awe, it reminds me of, you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

when you're a kid, and you don't want to mow the lawn, and but if

Cheryl Brewster:

there's a good looking guy next door, it's like, yeah, oh, no.

Cheryl Brewster:

Like, suddenly, we have the energy for it. And, and, you

Cheryl Brewster:

know, that's one of the things that I really appreciate about

Cheryl Brewster:

you. And what you've always done in your career is, is look for,

Cheryl Brewster:

you know, Where's where's juice here? What's different, what's

Cheryl Brewster:

unique, because as soon as we find that, that's what spurs

Cheryl Brewster:

learning because it's different. And that's the other side of the

Cheryl Brewster:

brain of it. You know, the other side of the brain too, is that

Cheryl Brewster:

loves to learn. It loves to know what's new. So, wonder and awe,

Cheryl Brewster:

like using our imagination, which is a part of

Cheryl Brewster:

transformational learning. So that like, I wonder, I wonder

Cheryl Brewster:

what that would be like. And, yeah, like, I was playing with

Cheryl Brewster:

this today. It's like, ah, if I was my future self right now,

Cheryl Brewster:

what would I be doing? And what how would I be thinking and and

Cheryl Brewster:

the cool piece on that too. Benjamin Hardy love Benjamin

Cheryl Brewster:

Hardy for anyone out there who you know, wants to kind of be up

Cheryl Brewster:

to the science of all of this, too. He's a he's a psychologist

Cheryl Brewster:

and in behavior and management and all those good things. In

Cheryl Brewster:

his book 10x is easier than 2x. He talks about, you know, you

Cheryl Brewster:

define your past by the present. I thought that was very good. We

Cheryl Brewster:

define our past by the present, because the present, when you

Cheryl Brewster:

look back at your past, well, which way do you want to look at

Cheryl Brewster:

it? When you look at it from what did I learn? How did I

Cheryl Brewster:

grow? How different Am I than I was before? It's like, it's

Cheryl Brewster:

huge. There's good stuff there, right? So the wonder in the eye

Cheryl Brewster:

is, well, well, look how much I've learned, look how much I've

Cheryl Brewster:

grown, if I could do that way back then. And with what I know

Cheryl Brewster:

now, like, anything is possible. What do I really want, which

Cheryl Brewster:

gets us back into, into desire, wanting to do something for the

Cheryl Brewster:

sheer joy of it. And when that is involved, now, I think we're

Cheryl Brewster:

talking, okay, things are happening now. And that's where

Cheryl Brewster:

I think some of our great thought leaders, some of our

Cheryl Brewster:

great inventors, it's like, let's, let's have fun again.

Susan Ney:

You've mentioned mindfulness, and it really is

Susan Ney:

about stopping, being in the moment. And I just love that

Susan Ney:

because, you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking of

Susan Ney:

different places I've worked and just, you know, some of them

Susan Ney:

happier experiences and others, but I've met phenomenal people.

Susan Ney:

And I've had, you know, there there have been times where I

Susan Ney:

got stretched, but because of that stretch then doing that at

Susan Ney:

the next organization wasn't such a challenge. So yes,

Susan Ney:

looking back and and, you know, changing your perception of some

Susan Ney:

of the things that we would otherwise beat ourselves up

Susan Ney:

over, you know, I could have done better, you know, just, oh

Susan Ney:

my goodness, you know, if I'd only had the experience that I

Susan Ney:

have now, when I tried to deal with that situation. We're

Susan Ney:

really good at beating ourselves up. But that was all part of the

Susan Ney:

learning experience and, and why we are who we are today. So

Susan Ney:

those you write those are really important. Got it. It does take

Susan Ney:

it does take some time to just think right to, instead of just

Susan Ney:

be caught up in the whirlwind of, of your past of rec,

Susan Ney:

spending some time and recognizing the absolute

Susan Ney:

positive suppose, and looking at them as positives.

Cheryl Brewster:

Exactly asking yourself, What? What can I learn

Cheryl Brewster:

from this? What's the value in this? And, you know, I think

Cheryl Brewster:

that's the, there's a real humility piece here, I think

Cheryl Brewster:

that's important to talk about. Because when when we recognize

Cheryl Brewster:

there is something in our life that isn't working, as well as

Cheryl Brewster:

we'd like it to. The humility piece is, is thank you for

Cheryl Brewster:

letting me know.

Susan Ney:

Yeah, yeah. You also talked about the use of

Susan Ney:

metaphors and the importance of metaphors, can you share a

Susan Ney:

little bit more of that with our listeners? And what I'm saying,

Susan Ney:

you talked about, it's been Cheryl was talking to me before

Susan Ney:

about some of the research that she was doing?

Cheryl Brewster:

Yeah, well, you know, and again, like, who knew

Cheryl Brewster:

I, sometimes these concepts or terms, you know, because we're,

Cheryl Brewster:

they've been around for years, we forget the meaning of them.

Cheryl Brewster:

And we forget how powerful they are. So, metaphors help the mind

Cheryl Brewster:

because the mind sees in pictures, not in words. So

Cheryl Brewster:

that's where, you know, Plato, back in the day came up with the

Cheryl Brewster:

cave metaphor, where, you know, you, there's shadows on the

Cheryl Brewster:

cave, and you're looking at the shadows on the cave, and then

Cheryl Brewster:

you see the light and you're, you're you're you're scared to

Cheryl Brewster:

go out because of all this activity, when, you know, it's

Cheryl Brewster:

it was just a shadow on on the cave wall. So that's an example

Cheryl Brewster:

of a metaphor. And, you know, the the research is that

Cheryl Brewster:

psychologists and neurologists, both of them, tell us that we

Cheryl Brewster:

use metaphors to make sense of our lives. So kind of like

Cheryl Brewster:

reflection, it's the meaning it's the bridge. Now, the cool

Cheryl Brewster:

thing about metaphors is that they're absorbed directly by the

Cheryl Brewster:

subconscious mind. And that's why, for example, in the work

Cheryl Brewster:

with with that I do with with hypnosis is going straight into

Cheryl Brewster:

the unconscious mind. What I love about metaphor and teaching

Cheryl Brewster:

is this. Ask yourself, if there was a fairy tale or a myth that

Cheryl Brewster:

I'm living, which one would it be? What would I pick? And now

Cheryl Brewster:

take it straight into your unconscious. And then from

Cheryl Brewster:

there, you can explore the different characters in the myth

Cheryl Brewster:

or this story. I remember way back when when I did this years

Cheryl Brewster:

ago, I first thing that popped up was, you know, the, the, the

Cheryl Brewster:

ugly duckling because that's how I felt at the time I felt gawky,

Cheryl Brewster:

I felt awkward. And I think it's important to talk about this

Cheryl Brewster:

because in learning, there will always be the distressing

Cheryl Brewster:

dilemma. So so if we can reframe the distress that we feel with

Cheryl Brewster:

change because the brain gets alerted, because it's it likes

Cheryl Brewster:

patterns. And now you're in a situation that you've not been

Cheryl Brewster:

in before. So the brain gets fired up, because it's looking

Cheryl Brewster:

for the pattern. So that's why these mindful awareness

Cheryl Brewster:

techniques are so powerful, because they take pre existing

Cheryl Brewster:

information. You add, which is a pattern, you add some new

Cheryl Brewster:

information. And now you have a bigger viewpoint, greater Vista,

Cheryl Brewster:

which means you have greater choice. And that's the power of

Cheryl Brewster:

metaphor, because it helps you see things differently. And

Cheryl Brewster:

which ties into open mindset or learner's mindset and closed

Cheryl Brewster:

mindset. And I find this really fascinating. And I love, I love

Cheryl Brewster:

to know, that if there's something in my life that I find

Cheryl Brewster:

limiting or restrictive, or something that hurts that I have

Cheryl Brewster:

the power to work with it, I do have the power to change it.

Cheryl Brewster:

Because that power is inside of me. But I may not be aware of

Cheryl Brewster:

it, or I may have forgotten it because you know, our power can

Cheryl Brewster:

be unconscious too. And we're not consciously aware of it or

Cheryl Brewster:

using it. So now if we look at the pain of, you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

existential pain, or whatever you want to call it, it's like

Cheryl Brewster:

wait a minute. What if it's not so bad? After all, what if it's

Cheryl Brewster:

just growth wanting to happen? What if I've outgrown myself and

Cheryl Brewster:

now it's time for something more? So, you know, there's one

Cheryl Brewster:

part of the brain that wants to comfort and then the other part

Cheryl Brewster:

of the brain is going yeah, let's go And so then you get

Cheryl Brewster:

this dilemma right this push pull. So bottom line and I love

Cheryl Brewster:

the work of of G's for name escapes me right now give it to

Cheryl Brewster:

you for the show notes. But DUAC Carol Dweck wrote a book on

Cheryl Brewster:

mindset. And the difference between the two. And that in a

Cheryl Brewster:

closed mindset, it's like, and this is where the unconscious

Cheryl Brewster:

comes in. We don't even realize how close we are. So when a

Cheryl Brewster:

difficult situation comes along, and this is where there's power

Cheryl Brewster:

in adversity, that if we can use adversity to grow from, it'll

Cheryl Brewster:

help us own our power in a way that really cuts to the chase.

Cheryl Brewster:

So the bigger picture and a learner's mindset goes, Okay, I

Cheryl Brewster:

don't like what's happened, but you know, what, I'm gonna look

Cheryl Brewster:

for the good in it. And I'm going to, I'm going to use it to

Cheryl Brewster:

grow. And the research has shown, especially with kids in

Cheryl Brewster:

school, that when we have an open mindset, we get better and

Cheryl Brewster:

better at transforming closed mindset, where, even though it

Cheryl Brewster:

may be hard, we can we can actually enjoy the process, we

Cheryl Brewster:

can have fun with it. So that's why I really appreciate what

Cheryl Brewster:

you're up to here with your podcast, your podcast is a

Cheryl Brewster:

demonstration of learners mindset, right? I

Susan Ney:

just love the fun part of it.

Cheryl Brewster:

And if we can make learning fun, man, then

Cheryl Brewster:

then we can make change fun. And that's that's transformation.

Cheryl Brewster:

Yeah,

Susan Ney:

yeah. No, that's wonderful. Hey, I also noted the

Susan Ney:

word optimism. And I think he kind of spoken of of that. But

Susan Ney:

anything else you wanted to share on optimism as part of the

Susan Ney:

tool in the toolkit, when you're dealing with negative mindset?

Susan Ney:

Or is was that specifically about catching yourself and

Susan Ney:

looking at? What else might be going on?

Cheryl Brewster:

Yeah, yeah, there's there's an important

Cheryl Brewster:

component here on optimism. And I, again, in the research that I

Cheryl Brewster:

did, I found a study that they did, I think it was in the

Cheryl Brewster:

Netherlands, where they did an optimist intervention. And what

Cheryl Brewster:

they did was for two weeks, they had people really work with

Cheryl Brewster:

optimism, and, and they had imagery of what their future

Cheryl Brewster:

self and two weeks would look like. So the research showed,

Cheryl Brewster:

and I mean, everyone felt better. And they they, you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

did things that they maybe wouldn't have done in the two

Cheryl Brewster:

weeks. But what was interesting, and the research was that the

Cheryl Brewster:

people who focused every day on the outcome of that future self

Cheryl Brewster:

that they were creating, actually did far more than just

Cheryl Brewster:

the people who who use positive imagery on a day to day

Cheryl Brewster:

activities. Interesting. So I thought that was interesting. So

Cheryl Brewster:

Seligman, who was the father of, or the founder of positive

Cheryl Brewster:

psychology, had this to say, and I think it's worth repeating.

Cheryl Brewster:

You have to embed optimism in your brain through the power of

Cheryl Brewster:

non negative thinking. So optimism is a choice. And it can

Cheryl Brewster:

be taught, as you know, the research shows. And the reason

Cheryl Brewster:

why it's stressed is because it does change the brain. And it's

Cheryl Brewster:

what keeps us healthy, you know, in all the research that they're

Cheryl Brewster:

doing with dementia, and in you know, the, the effect of the

Cheryl Brewster:

body, our health. You know, it's hugely important. And back in

Cheryl Brewster:

the day, I'll never forget, but I'm, I'm aging myself here, but

Cheryl Brewster:

Norman Vincent Peale, saying, he was talking about positive

Cheryl Brewster:

thinking is saying, Look, don't think that this is pollyannish.

Cheryl Brewster:

It takes grit, grit, and courage and muscles to live this way.

Cheryl Brewster:

This, this is a courageous path. And an important one, because if

Cheryl Brewster:

we don't live it, then the very meaning of our lives gets lost.

Cheryl Brewster:

And at the end of the day, you know, it's like that quote that

Cheryl Brewster:

goes, yeah, by the time I'm done, I'm on a skid with the

Cheryl Brewster:

dust. Wow, what a ride.

Susan Ney:

And I think it's really important to be talking

Susan Ney:

about this because there's just so much happening in our world

Susan Ney:

that it Yeah, it can take people out and to be cognizant of

Susan Ney:

what's going on and having these tools to to make the Come

Susan Ney:

different, to make our thinking process different is so

Susan Ney:

important. So very important. I think particularly right now.

Cheryl Brewster:

I agree, you know, I think, you know, reminds

Cheryl Brewster:

me that, you know, when we've had something hard happen, kind

Cheryl Brewster:

of knocked the wind out of our sails, right. And so to catch

Cheryl Brewster:

ourselves and say, okay, and to recognize the signs, you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

what I, I, I need to look at this, I need to work with this.

Cheryl Brewster:

And because the joy does return. And it's, it's a process of

Cheryl Brewster:

discovery, and it is a process of decision. And I like to think

Cheryl Brewster:

of, I like to think of all of these tools is, is being

Cheryl Brewster:

muscles. And one of the studies I found to Susan was, it was

Cheryl Brewster:

talking about reflection, and was saying how, you know, the

Cheryl Brewster:

the mind is like a muscle. And the reflection is what

Cheryl Brewster:

replenishes that reflection is what gives it a rest and kind of

Cheryl Brewster:

rejuvenates it. And our brain is uses up 20% of our energy,

Cheryl Brewster:

that's a lot for muscle loss. And so, so that's why you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

if you've been focused for a long period of time, get up and

Cheryl Brewster:

take a breather, or go get a breath of fresh air or my

Cheryl Brewster:

favorite, and I love this, and I have to tell you, when one

Cheryl Brewster:

participant in a recent practicum that was doing and,

Cheryl Brewster:

you know, she just isn't Cheryl, I just don't get it, I just, you

Cheryl Brewster:

know, I just don't get that stuff. And she says, How can you

Cheryl Brewster:

have so many happy people in here? And then I said, Well, you

Cheryl Brewster:

know, oh, and she said, the homework is to dance. Are you

Cheryl Brewster:

kidding me? So, so I said, Well, here's the research will so you

Cheryl Brewster:

know what? She tried it and she just it that she came back to be

Cheryl Brewster:

lame. She said, that changed my life? Wow.

Susan Ney:

Yeah. Wow. Hey, a lot of our listeners are people who

Susan Ney:

have responsibility for other people, they oversee other

Susan Ney:

people. So any thoughts on, you know, other than modeling this

Susan Ney:

yourself, you know, as a leader? Any thoughts on what somebody

Susan Ney:

could do when they see that someone on their team? Perhaps

Susan Ney:

is struggling with negative negativity bias? Or, you know,

Susan Ney:

some of what we've talked about today?

Cheryl Brewster:

Yeah, I think that, especially with teams, a

Cheryl Brewster:

couple of things, number one, you know, the, the Compassionate

Cheryl Brewster:

communication, which is, hey, you know, you're, you're

Cheryl Brewster:

everything, okay? No, just checking in everything, okay,

Cheryl Brewster:

you know, to keep it factual, and to also invite conversation

Cheryl Brewster:

so that, you know, at the end of the day, it's always about

Cheryl Brewster:

connection. So that would be my first response, I was going

Cheryl Brewster:

everything, okay, and, you know, just checking in. And then my

Cheryl Brewster:

second response would be, to introduce reflection into the

Cheryl Brewster:

workplace. In a study that they did out of India, Harvard

Cheryl Brewster:

Business did a study. And it was a call center, and they were

Cheryl Brewster:

having a hard time keeping staff. And so they they did a

Cheryl Brewster:

study, and they introduced the reflection piece, and one study

Cheryl Brewster:

group, reflected after training, they gave them time to reflect

Cheryl Brewster:

on the training. The second study group, not only did they

Cheryl Brewster:

reflect it was written reflection and sharing. And then

Cheryl Brewster:

the third study group, there was no change. So in both groups

Cheryl Brewster:

that reflected the one that did the written reflection, and the

Cheryl Brewster:

sharing increased productivity by 25%. The second, the second

Cheryl Brewster:

group was just over, it was almost 23%. So between the two

Cheryl Brewster:

50% improvement in performance and in production. So I think

Cheryl Brewster:

this is a really valuable tool that is not utilized at all in

Cheryl Brewster:

and, on another study that I researched, the executive said

Cheryl Brewster:

that what made the difference between being mediocre, and

Cheryl Brewster:

being, you know, stellar, was that reflection piece. So in the

Cheryl Brewster:

workplace, I think there's a real opportunity here to create

Cheryl Brewster:

something really exciting. That only not only improves

Cheryl Brewster:

performance and efficiency in the bottom line but improves the

Cheryl Brewster:

quality of people's experience. And when you have that, like, I

Cheryl Brewster:

mean, there's one boss that I had, his staff would have done

Cheryl Brewster:

anything for him. Because he, he, he not only modeled it, but

Cheryl Brewster:

he invited it from his stuff. And, you know, to this day, you

Cheryl Brewster:

know, I just, I'm very touched by this person who, to me really

Cheryl Brewster:

represented. True, true leadership. Wow.

Susan Ney:

And turning to these tools and situations,

Susan Ney:

friendships or conversations with family members, any

Susan Ney:

thoughts? I think I probably know the answer. But are they as

Susan Ney:

applicable in sort of non work situations where you see

Susan Ney:

somebody struggling?

Cheryl Brewster:

Absolutely. You know, we we really don't know

Cheryl Brewster:

what's happening for someone. And, you know, I, and

Cheryl Brewster:

especially, I think, you know, as I get older, and I, you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

I had some health stuff up come myself last year, and I remember

Cheryl Brewster:

going in the day before surgery going, you know, what, I, this

Cheryl Brewster:

could be the last time I do this, this could be the last

Cheryl Brewster:

time I am in this home, this could be my last car ride. And

Cheryl Brewster:

this is where I think slowing things down is really important.

Cheryl Brewster:

And there's a false perception out there. And I know that I've

Cheryl Brewster:

experienced this in my life, Oh, I gotta get this done. I gotta

Cheryl Brewster:

do this, go do that. It's like, no, no, no, you actually don't.

Cheryl Brewster:

What's most important that goes back to that 8020 rule? What's

Cheryl Brewster:

most important? Am I living my life that way? And again,

Cheryl Brewster:

there's courage involved. And the currency I think, is trust

Cheryl Brewster:

and faith. And really slowing down to saying Am, Am I taking

Cheryl Brewster:

care of what's most important? Using that rigorous scientific

Cheryl Brewster:

inquiry? Tell the truth? No, I'm not okay. It feels a lot better

Cheryl Brewster:

when I do. Then I'm in integrity, then you know what,

Cheryl Brewster:

the day that comes when I'm not on this planet anymore. All know

Cheryl Brewster:

that I could have left this earth. Doing everything that I

Cheryl Brewster:

could have to contribute to myself and to others. And I said

Cheryl Brewster:

to a client today, she wanted you know, she's going through a

Cheryl Brewster:

lot of transition doesn't know what to do. And I said to her,

Cheryl Brewster:

and she said, the one thing she realized and she wanted was, she

Cheryl Brewster:

wanted to do good in the world. And I said, in order for you to

Cheryl Brewster:

be to do good in the world, you have to do good to yourself.

Susan Ney:

Yeah, I sure believe that. Yeah.

Cheryl Brewster:

So yeah, this is whether it's personal or

Cheryl Brewster:

professional, it's the bottom line is, wherever you go, there

Cheryl Brewster:

you are. Yeah,

Susan Ney:

and a huge piece of leadership, whether it be small

Susan Ney:

l er, or big L leadership. I want to before we begin, bring

Susan Ney:

the podcast to a close, talk a little bit more about the term

Susan Ney:

that you use, transformational learning, and why this is such

Susan Ney:

an important piece of all of what we've talked about. You've

Susan Ney:

talked a little bit about it, but just any any other nuggets.

Cheryl Brewster:

Yep. The I guess the one nugget that really

Cheryl Brewster:

stands out for me is that transformational learning, we'll

Cheryl Brewster:

always start out with a distressing dilemma.

Susan Ney:

And we get lots of those lives because we get so

Susan Ney:

much

Cheryl Brewster:

this is this is this is a signal of growth,

Cheryl Brewster:

right? I like that part. So the you know, and there's many

Cheryl Brewster:

different theories and models out there. The the one that I

Cheryl Brewster:

was studying was was Mazur house, transformational and was

Cheryl Brewster:

basically 10 phases. And I love the first two phases that yes,

Cheryl Brewster:

there's going to be a distressing dilemma. And, you

Cheryl Brewster:

know, it's like, that's okay. It's like, Oh, can we remember

Cheryl Brewster:

that? You know, what part of part of being distressed is?

Cheryl Brewster:

It's a biofeedback signal saying, hey, you know what, you

Cheryl Brewster:

know, get back, get back to your core, get back to your core.

Cheryl Brewster:

It's okay. The second phase is again, the reflection piece. And

Cheryl Brewster:

then from there, there's there's this progression. So

Cheryl Brewster:

transformational learning is being able to look at the

Cheryl Brewster:

pattern in your life record. Notice that you have been

Cheryl Brewster:

spiraling up with it. And also recognizing how much further

Cheryl Brewster:

along than you were like five years ago, 10 years ago, and

Cheryl Brewster:

that you've accomplished and grown perhaps much more than

Cheryl Brewster:

you've given yourself credit for. So take those 20 seconds of

Cheryl Brewster:

letting the good in. And that gives you more space. So that in

Cheryl Brewster:

the next thing it is you have to do, you're bringing the the

Cheryl Brewster:

appreciation of life into it. And I think if we all did that

Cheryl Brewster:

more, imagine the amount of conflict that would simply

Cheryl Brewster:

dissolve, literally immediately. And that's the other part of

Cheryl Brewster:

transformational learning that I like, is that it offers

Cheryl Brewster:

immediate emotional relief. And as soon as we have that, then

Cheryl Brewster:

the courage to do the things perhaps that we've been avoiding

Cheryl Brewster:

is there, or the insight or the clarity? Makes

Susan Ney:

a lot of the smoke out? Yeah. diffuses. Yeah. Yeah.

Susan Ney:

If it sounds like you're starting from a different base

Susan Ney:

to, you know, just the next time something comes along, then

Susan Ney:

you're, as you say, building the muscle better able to handle it.

Susan Ney:

And all of that is being observed by all the people in

Susan Ney:

your life.

Cheryl Brewster:

Yes, and you know, I got a Valentine from

Cheryl Brewster:

someone today. And, you know, I have to tell you this story,

Cheryl Brewster:

just quickly, I know, we're probably at a time here. But,

Cheryl Brewster:

you know, she shared with me that she had been considering

Cheryl Brewster:

taking her life. And she had come to one of my workshops, it

Cheryl Brewster:

was the first workshop and intuition I'd ever done. And I

Cheryl Brewster:

was as nervous as heck I tell you. And she told me years

Cheryl Brewster:

later, you know, because there was something you said in that

Cheryl Brewster:

workshop. And I realized I didn't have to make that, that

Cheryl Brewster:

decision. Wow. So she sent me a Valentine. Just in, you know,

Cheryl Brewster:

connection and appreciation. And and, you know, here was my

Cheryl Brewster:

reflective learning from that experience was, even though I

Cheryl Brewster:

felt that, you know, as my first presentation, I was nervous, I

Cheryl Brewster:

could have done things differently. Just the fact that

Cheryl Brewster:

I showed up, made a big change in someone's life. And I and I,

Cheryl Brewster:

this recent experience of taking these courses, you know what, it

Cheryl Brewster:

really brought it, it slowed me down, to remind me Cheryl, where

Cheryl Brewster:

are you being too hard on yourself? Where are you trying

Cheryl Brewster:

to do too much? Where are you not keeping things simple? And

Cheryl Brewster:

where are you not bringing the the quality of life that you

Cheryl Brewster:

really, really want to live? So I think we all need these

Cheryl Brewster:

reminders. And just because someone looks happy to happy

Cheryl Brewster:

doesn't mean they're not going through stuff and doesn't mean

Cheryl Brewster:

you know, we are constantly growing. So let us grow with

Cheryl Brewster:

hope, with optimism. And most of all, let us grow with grace.

Cheryl Brewster:

Because at the end of the day, we're all doing our best. Life

Cheryl Brewster:

is precious. Life was short, Let's appreciate ourselves.

Cheryl Brewster:

Because then we appreciate each other. And now we can make magic

Cheryl Brewster:

happen because the on the wonder of life. That's what we're all

Cheryl Brewster:

here for. So to bring that into our workday.

Susan Ney:

Pretty cool. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl Brewster:

It's like okay.

Susan Ney:

And then so it just absolutely so important that we

Susan Ney:

talk about this, and we share the learning and we share the

Susan Ney:

tools and we talk about what we're seeing in other people and

Susan Ney:

using gentle language, watching for those opportunities. And

Susan Ney:

that this we do something to stop the, the potential that

Susan Ney:

negativity bias has on who we are, and I've seen it take

Susan Ney:

people out. And I've also watched you and you've had a

Susan Ney:

number of challenges that you have presented themselves and I

Susan Ney:

have watched you use these tools, so it was really cool to

Susan Ney:

watch you then see this. Learn the science behind all the way

Susan Ney:

you you know, I know from watching you The tools work and

Susan Ney:

I know from watching you work with your clients how effective

Susan Ney:

these tools are. So, so appreciate you saying yes to my

Susan Ney:

request to come and talk to all of us. And me too, because I'm,

Susan Ney:

I'm a lifelong learner as well, and always learning from you.

Susan Ney:

And thank you to our listeners for also being interested in

Susan Ney:

being transformational learners and doing something with these

Susan Ney:

negative Nellies that that often get in our way and create havoc

Susan Ney:

in our lives. We know we can do something about these. Cheryl,

Susan Ney:

you have referenced a number of great resources, through your

Susan Ney:

sharing with us, I will make sure that I get that information

Susan Ney:

from Dewey and some of the other ones that you've talked about,

Susan Ney:

to put on the show notes for the podcast. And yes, yes, yes, I

Susan Ney:

will put your contact information, if anyone wants to

Susan Ney:

get in touch with you and learn more about who you are and the

Susan Ney:

incredible programs that that you offer through the intuitive

Susan Ney:

life. Any last thoughts before we bring the podcast to a close?

Cheryl Brewster:

Yes, I appreciate the lifelong

Cheryl Brewster:

learning. And for anyone listening to this podcast. You

Cheryl Brewster:

know, I think we're, we're a tribe. And one of the books

Cheryl Brewster:

actually I borrowed from you on youth theory is said that, you

Cheryl Brewster:

know, it only takes five committed people to change the

Cheryl Brewster:

world. Just five, and each one of us have an opportunity. We

Cheryl Brewster:

all have ideas. It's like what if we all created these little

Cheryl Brewster:

pods of five and got together and just decided this is what's

Cheryl Brewster:

important. This is what makes me you know, come alive, this is

Cheryl Brewster:

what I want to do. And as lifelong learners as we just,

Cheryl Brewster:

you know, support each other and and imagine what we can all do.

Cheryl Brewster:

And so I would just encourage anyone out there listening to

Cheryl Brewster:

this, you know, there's, there's a synchronicity of this

Cheryl Brewster:

particular episode at this particular time. It's, it's

Cheryl Brewster:

giving you a sign, listen.

Susan Ney:

I'd love love love. Swinging voice one, I just think

Susan Ney:

it's close to Valentine's Day. And yeah, it really is. It's,

Susan Ney:

it's so important. And there you go the community, again, small

Susan Ney:

groups and the power of working within small groups. So yeah,

Susan Ney:

great, thank you that. And it is so much fun, because I've been

Susan Ney:

in some of your small groups and I, and I don't want to go too

Susan Ney:

far into the story. But somebody had said, Be the person that you

Susan Ney:

imagine yourself to be five years from now. And then have a

Susan Ney:

conversation with and you put us into a Zoom Room, as I remember

Susan Ney:

to the conversation and you and I did and we had such fun. And I

Susan Ney:

remember when you talked about being you know, having been

Susan Ney:

written that book on resilience wasn't that fun, and you were so

Susan Ney:

concerned you would never it lo look at you today. And truly

Susan Ney:

being that person five years, whatever your timeframe is. And

Susan Ney:

cheese, it was fun. And it felt so empowering. And we need to be

Susan Ney:

having fun with this stuff. Because as you've shared with us

Susan Ney:

so eloquently today, it changes the brain. And the research

Susan Ney:

proves that it has its huge benefits. So Cheryl, thank you

Susan Ney:

and to our listeners have some fun with this. Get those

Susan Ney:

journals out, take those breaths make sure you take that time for

Susan Ney:

reflection. And let us know how it goes as you deal with your

Susan Ney:

own negativity biases and and nipping those in the bud before

Susan Ney:

they they do further damage. It is time for us to bring this

Susan Ney:

podcast to a close. Cheryl and I believe in each one of you that

Susan Ney:

by using these tools, you truly will be able to soar higher

Susan Ney:

because we both believe that you can. Right. I see Cheryl nodding

Susan Ney:

her head because we're recording this and I can see her. It's

Susan Ney:

like just believe in yourself soar high because we both

Susan Ney:

believe you can. Cheryl thank you for making the time to be

Susan Ney:

with with us here today. You're awesome as always. It is Cheryl

Susan Ney:

and Susan signing out have a great rest of your day everyone

Susan Ney:

and thanks for listening and supporting this podcast series

Susan Ney:

Take care everyone

Cheryl Brewster:

thank you bye