A Supporter’s Perspective

As a supporter, what are your initial instincts when someone tells you they have cancer? Let's hear firsthand. All right, welcome back to heal inside and out conversations. And in the last episode, do you know we talked about support, and how challenging it was for each of us to allow the love and support in? And I love that conversation and what it how I want to kick this conversation off is to ask you a question. Before we even like get into what we're really going to talk about today. But why is support important? What what comes to mind for you?

What comes to mind for me on how support is so important. And it's amazing on how you realize this sometimes, after the fact. And what comes up for me is that support made me feel that I wasn't alone. We're in this journey. We feel like we're alone. Nobody understands how can our loved ones and friends understand unless they've gone through it. So to me, allowing that love into supporting made me feel more alive and not alone.

I love that. And I would agree with that. And I for you. I will say that. I think the reason it is so important to figure out and accept it. And all of that is that it truly is a huge source of strength, and helps us to navigate our healing because we have that support. And it also serves our ability to really take care of ourselves. It reminds us of that priority. It serves that priority. So I just it it. I just don't want anyone underestimated the value of being able to accept that support sauce. So we taught lean, no, we've talked then about support from our standpoint. Yeah. Yes. From our personal standpoint, now. Let's talk about it from a supporters standpoint. So we are so excited to introduce our very first guest, a very, very special guest. This woman has been a huge light in my life for probably almost 30 years now.

Wow. I didn't realize it was that long. 30

Yes. I just said I'm sorry, I just, we were five.

I was gonna say wait a second.

She was she's she's been a friend. She's been a colleague. She's been a business partner. And she also was a supporter through my breast cancer journey. She and I worked together in corporate America, way back, way back when, when we both moved beyond corporate America, she has been at my side in my last couple side businesses of graphics design. And now all things love me healing, which she'll hear us talk more about in other episodes. But she's also a huge contributor to heal inside and out. And she's even in the background today. But she works closely with Dina and I to make this podcast possible. So when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, we were in the thick of a few huge client projects for the graphics, design business, meaningful expressions, but I will say we, of course, we were like super uncertain about Okay, so I'm telling her now I'm diagnosed with breast cancer. And we are very, very uncertain about what is to come, given this diagnosis, and given our project load. And given it was just the two of us.

So I'm going to interrupt you for one second. Yes, like I do sometimes love it. But please introduce her.

Yes. So I will say Marla, thank you. Yes, is this mystery guest I couldn't wait any longer. This mystery guests that she helped me navigate the unknowns and she helped me navigate all the challenges with such grace. So I'm excited to introduce Marla as a huge part of my support network. And Marla, if you could tell us just a little bit about yourself and we'll dive into some questions.

Well, thank you so much. You're so sweet. You're gonna make me cry right out of the gate. But yeah, my name is Marla. I work with both these wonderful women. I have known Maggie, like she said for a long time. And I got to know Deena last year, through our work with Love Me healing and collaboration on a bunch of stuff. And then now on this podcast, so, but I live in Minnesota. I'm a mom and wife and have two teenagers. So Enough said on how busy I am. But it's, I'm grateful to be here. And thank you for having me.

It's a pleasure to have you here today. Welcome. Okay, so I am going to throw out a question to you. When Maggie told you about her diagnosis, what she suffers first instinct. What did you want to do to support her?

Well, I think well, first of all, say, um, Maggie is not the first friend or family colleague or person that's come to me with this sort of punch in the gut, see word cancer. Whether it's breast cancer, lung cancer, colon cancer, I, you know, so many different impacts over my lifetime. But it's always a punch in the gut, and for everyone, and but, but my initial reaction was really, to mask up and just see what she needed. Where was she at with this? What did she need for me in that moment, and it was about sort of rejecting my own personal fear and where I was at, and just loving her and being ready to offer whatever I could in support. And mostly that just started with listening. Feeling what was she meaning? Being her being with her and listening to her and seeing her as I always did, that, here's Maggie, she's coming to me with a problem, whatever that may be, or a reflection of something. And I'm just going to hear her out and see what I can offer. In that moment.

Seeing just quickly to seeing you see me, as you always saw me is more powerful than I would have ever imagined. Because it ties back to something you brought up Dina in our last episode about my identity, and I did not want you to see me as weak. Or see me as you know, incapable of doing the things that we needed to do for you know, work, right. So you seen me, as you always saw me gave me strength to open up when I did need more help there. So I just yeah, that was like, I love that you mentioned that piece because that was huge.

Something really struck me as you were speaking Mala, as someone who's, who wants to be the supporter, whether it's with your loved one, a co worker, or a friend, as the supporter, you mentioned something about your own fear. Can you elaborate on that? I have a lot of things going through my mind right now. But I would truly love our audience to hear what fear the supporter has.

Well, of course, you know, there's so many range of motions that you go through. And for me, it was, you know, an instant like, the first time I ever heard cancer was sort of whispered on a porch, you know, it and I was I was young, it was my grandfather. And so it had this sort of connotation of fear, just based on how the adults were bringing it up. And then, you know, so as you grow up, you're like, well, that's a terrible word. Right? It's a bad word. Fear and then also, I think it's mixed instantly with sad, you don't want that for anyone. You won't wish that on your worst enemy. Nothing. You would never and here's a loved one and you're like, No, and then also a little bit of mad like, Why? Why did this happen? This is not fair kind of reaction. And so, but, you know, none of that is what they need in that moment. And it's really kind of stopping yourself in the tracks and saying, Yep, that is true how I feel but I'm gonna hold that for later and I'm gonna deal with my own and just how can I hear what they are thinking and feeling because they may have already moved through that in silence and their own time. And they're not in that place right now. So you don't need to bring all that up, you just need to pinpoint where they're at, and meet them where they are. So it's just sort of acknowledging that it's real. But it doesn't mean it timings everything right with with however we react to things. There may be moments where your loved one or your person needs to hear how you're really feeling, they need to know that vulnerability, and they need to hear that. But there's also times when they don't need you spreading your fear all over them, like peanut butter like this, you know, it right? Back and keep that inside here. So for right now, and right now they need you to be you know, the strength and the you know, almost that they can lean on you literally, that's strength of supporting them up.

Right now, thank you for for sharing it. When, when you didn't know what Maggie might have wanted, or needed, when she kept pushing those words on you and everybody else? Because I did it too. I'm good, fine. I'm good. You know, how did you handle that?

Well, I think there's a couple different ways that are a couple of stories that come to mind. But and Maggie definitely is a strong, independent person. And we'd never, as you mentioned in the last episode would struggle with asking for help or whatever. And it's being it's seeing them where they are and understand that but also kind of calling them out and having a little tough love and saying, you know, I hear you, but I want to do something for you right now. And I think you need to go rest or I want to give you the support. So you don't have to worry about that right now. And so yes, sometimes you have to kind of push back a little bit, I guess. And gently or firmly depending on how stubborn they are.

I was just gonna say I didn't hear the stubborn word. But yes, that's in there. Yeah, and that I will tie that back quickly, to your point about masking up because you did such a great job of when I was being stubborn and working on that thing and struggling through it, because I wasn't feeling well. And you know, you just recognizing that. And, and, and helping me stop and really think about it Stop being stubborn, right? But stop and really think about, okay, I do need to take the time and go get the rest. And it wasn't about the work or the priorities or the stress or the overwhelm of anything on our workplace. It became about something different that was in service and my healing. And so I appreciate that whole concept of the masking up, which has such an interesting dynamic.

Well, and I think too, as a supporter, you're you're you're sitting in compassion in that moment, and hopefully, hopefully recognizing what you have both said at different times about them navigating this big shift in their identity, right? So for you, for my father, for my grandfather, like all the people, my friends who have been through this, it's like, knowing that they may be new to support, they may be feeling weak, but they don't want everyone to see that. Because that's not what their identity has been in the past. That's not who they feel they are that you know. So it's understanding that and trying to gently walk through that together. I think it's a good conversation to be like, if, if if the pushing and the tough love seem to too much. Maybe it's a simple conversation of what one could support look like to you right now, Maggie or Dina? You know, just having that conversation to really invite in some feedback from them in a more compassionate dialogue.

That makes sense, right? Sometimes it's it's having, like you said that conversation with the person who's going through it as you are the supporter. Yeah, I know, we talked in an early episode of, of my dad who was calling my sister in New Jersey to give me the love and the support without asking me what I needed or wanted, you know, so yes, it's, it's really being able to be strong enough as a supporter, with your own identity. So that you can face the person that's going through it and, and be able to say, I'm here to help you, and I'm going to help you. So tell me what you need. Like you said, Yeah, cuz

sometimes it's I'm here to help you and I'm going to help you but I don't know how to help you right now. I'm sorry. Ask and we need to talk about it.

Exactly, exactly.

Well, um, the other thing I will say too is with Maggie and I, we've maybe had a unique experience compared to, you know, when I went through cancer support for my dad, say, for example, he was in the hospital, and I was driving to him physically seeing him in that space, right? In person. When Maggie was diagnosed, it was late 2020, we were doing everything virtual, different, there were COVID protocols where she couldn't even take her husband and her daughter into surgeries or appointments and things like that, let alone just a friend or, you know, yes. So we spent a lot of time just having like zoom calls, or Skype calls are FaceTime, whatever and those video call virtual sessions, and, you know, those maybe would be an hour out of the day, or, or more or less, but it's different, because Maggie could in her own way, mask up and be tough for that call for an hour or that time period. And then she could let me know I'm tired, I'm gonna go rest now are not feeling well, I'm gonna go rest. But it's different to hear someone say that than to see them physically going through that struggle on that challenge and not feeling well. And so I think I recognize those differences too. And I may be stepped up in supporting in that way too, knowing that I didn't even have the full story behind what she was going through. But I kind of knew it from previous experience, if that was just the dip different thing. And that may be true, not only for COVID, or it could be just for geographic distance, right? You have loved ones that are in other states or too far away to come visit you doesn't even matter that they are also faced with those same things and they're not going to have the whole story or the see the full impact of how your treatments and things may be impacting you. So again, those conversations may then shift to what you need. Because they're not seeing you can't make dinner, she's got to lay down and rest right now. Right? So just different things that you might ask are going to be more important, I think in those situations, too.

That's a great point. Because I'm sure you can relate Dina, that when if I had meetings with clients, or or you know, even with you, Marla, but I didn't mask up as much with you. But when I was done, I think I referenced this in another call we had but I literally if I was wearing a wig or anything, I'd rip it off because it was itchy. And it was hot. And and I might go just change into or out of my, you know, waist up dressy clothes into bows and collapse on the couch. Right. So the the scene versus the only hearing for that point in time virtually. I think that's a great point. Marla.

Yeah. I mean, I my experience with that is I went to a physical job. So you told me about masking up and you know, you know, saying you're okay, and not having or not allowing the support. It was tough for me as a instructor for the college because my students wanted to be the supporters. And I had, I don't even know how many students I had. But I do remember one or two of them, coming to see me every day, they could be on campus somewhere else. But they made a point to come in to see me and asked me if I needed anything. You know, so wonderful. It's, it's, I understand what the two of you were saying whether it was virtual, or whether it was physically seeing somebody going through this. And then, like, what reminded me of all this Maggie is when you said you know, the wig came off? Well my scarf came off on my hats came off when you know driving home from work, or just collapsing, you know, when I got home because I'm just just mentally physically exhausted. You know, so that's when I that's the time when I really truly needed the support. Yeah,

and there were times where I would literally say to Maggie, I got I got you take take your wig off and your head off and just breathe and it's okay, like, I can handle this like I said, because I think she was a little nervous to the first and it was like, I can handle it. We can handle This, I'm here for you, we will work through this. So I think sometimes reassuring and being honest with one another to is important, and just be curious, you know how they're feeling. Again, if you're listening and watching where they're at you, you will get the clues that you need on helping them. Allow us to allow you to support them best. Sure.

Yeah. So So Marla when I think too, about how you and I worked together, almost every day, through my journey, I, and then I know you also saw your father through it, and a really dear friend through it and whatnot. So for our listeners, do you have some, of course everybody is going to do it differently. And it's based on who they're supporting. But what are your tips for our listeners as it relates to being that supporter?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I don't want to sound like I have all the answers cuz again, I just show up as myself and do what makes sense to me. And everybody is different. And everyone's healings unique. So of course, meet your person where they're at. And timing is, is a big factor. There's all these things take require a little bit of awareness and sensitivity to the situation at hand in the moment. But I think one of the things is, there's a big piece of this, that is you no one seeing them as the person you've always known and not as neither a super superhero and put them on a pedestal, like they can conquer all things, nor sort of this weak victim either, I think just hold them where you've loved them and had interaction in the past and keep it there. Like we would talk about things that had nothing to do with cancer, for example, that was our daily thing. What what did we talk about in the past? That's what we're going to talk about today. And then if I could tell everyone to talk about it, then of course absolutely, but it was never a focus it didn't have cancer didn't have to be the whole story. It was just when she wanted to talk about it or when she didn't, we were going to interact like we always had and I think that's important for them and for yourself. There's such a piece with both you and Maggie have always inspired me in the sense that you are so positive and I think that mental capacity that mental state is so important in how you react to treatments and how you react to your surgeries and how you handle the daily date daily in and out routines and challenges and whatever I've I've seen it go both ways were right well are not as positive and it does impact how their day goes or their week goes or their path. So I think that's another piece and then I think as much as you can try to be curious when you're supporting them and find out what would really matter to them in that moment. So if they're not in the mood to talk today and you are visiting to sit beside them or if they're really exhausted and need to rest but want you to stay and they need support maybe it's pick up a book and read to them or read a magazine or something to them you know like find these creative ways to show support without it having to be energy draining to them and the moment just meet them where they are for that that time

wow, that kind of just reminded me of something everybody knows like friends and family you know that unlike my house meet doesn't have to be speaking spans spotless clean, but I like things neat. So my daughters or my husband or friends when they would come over because this is what you just reminded me of is when I really was just looking around and I could see that I'm looking like I'm looking at that this this towels that have to be folded or you know the magazines are a mess put them neat kind of thing you know all that kind of craziness and they would straighten things up.

Yeah, I love that. It's just a little simple

thing. And if you know your person like you said that you know I'm exhausted today and like you said, I need to lay down for a half hour and then you know somebody's looking around and they're just making my area neat that out but that's what came to mind.

I love that well and I was I have a lot of what you have done Marla and then even expressed in this episode makes To me think of something that when you're supporting someone going through this journey which Dena you and I are on the other side of it, but now we're supporting ourselves in a different way, as well as wanting to support others going through it you through your coaching us through, you know, the tools and resources and things. And so what I would like to say is that, Marla, you did such a great job when I was feeling low, you helped me look for the high meaning, not Pollyanna. I think sometimes we worry, we don't want to come across like over the top positive or whatever. But it's, it's really just helping the person you're supporting, see it a little bit more positive. In that moment, whatever it happens to be the feeling. Right. I think

I also want to acknowledge that because what came once again came to mind as as we talk, I can go into more episodes. But let's face it, and I'm going to be real here. This sucks. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And the day that it sucks more than the next day, I really had one or two people in my life that knew me that well, that said, today's a sucky day for you, isn't it? And I've then I felt so much better.

What even I know that I know that sounds awesome. Because even sitting in the suckiness with you die sometimes that's the holding space that is needed. So I agree. Point.

Yeah, no. And, you know, sometimes I like to just bring it out and just say it because a lot of us are feeling it.

Yes. And we always okay, yeah, it's okay. Because of the field of fields piece, right? Like we sometimes we just need to sit with the feeling. And so I, I think that I'm so glad you added that because it's not just always taking them to a more positive place. But when you can encourage, absolutely, it's an entre finding those ways to just to just navigate it delicately. So it's not that Pollyanna or putting them on a pedestal like you've got this, you're gonna conquer it all. And don't even worry, because then it dismisses the seriousness of the nature of the nature by whatever. But I love your point, too. Sometimes it's sitting in the suckiness. There's an episode here. Yes, absolutely. Well, Marla, we've loved your perspective. And one thing that our listeners need to know is that you will be a special guest in future episodes as well. So I just want to thank you for for joining us for supporting me through my breast cancer journey for supporting us and heal inside and out. Yes,

thank you, Marla, you brought a lot of good points here. And it's just so refreshing to be on this journey with you. And I've only known you for a little over a year and it's just, it's amazing to see the love and support that you given me in such a short time and what you have done from Maggie, thank you. I celebrate you.