Making an Impact at Scale in Cancer Support with Livestrong’s Suzanne Stone

Hello, everybody. Good morning. Welcome to Gut Checks, stories of hope and inspiration to parent perseverance. I want to welcome Suzanne Stone, the President and CEO of LIVESTRONG and LIVESTRONG, which I've been a fan of in support, fully supporting for the last 20 years. Suzanne was recently appointed in November 2020 Remi, the President and CEO for Livestrong, pioneering the nonprofit dedicated to improving the daily lives of cancer survivors. Welcome, Suzanne. Really glad you're here

Happy to be here.

Thank you. I mentioned a little bit as we were starting to how important LIVESTRONG has been to me. I have had on my LIVESTRONG bands, as you can see here, for 20 years, my dad, we 20 years ago, as the brands start, as the band started coming out, we thought he had cancer, and I put on the band. And I've had my band on the entire time. And the only times that I've had to take off my band was for medical procedures, when they have said that I was not allowed to have it on is, in fact, because at one hospital, they said that the yellow band stood for DNR. So I made sure to take off the band at the time, so

so we'll allow it during that. Yes, yes,

exactly. So, but LIVESTRONG then as I was going through my own cancer treatment, LIVESTRONG, and the LIVESTRONG community of making daily lives of cancer patients that are was critical to me, because I had reached out. One of the things we did not have, as much of 15 years ago, 12 years ago, was the support groups, and especially men support groups, and through LIVESTRONG. I got introduced to the Imerman Angels. And I was introduced to Fran curry, who lives in Austin. And Fran, actually is an Ironman triathlete, and he and I spent countless hours talking and texting and, and sharing information about his own cancer experience. And I'm actually talking with him later on today. So it's super cool to maintain that relationship. And then, when I was going through my own treatment, LIVESTRONG was part of my identity. I snuck out and did a triathlon six weeks after my tumor removal against doctor's orders, and I had a LIVESTRONG shirt on and when I finished my first triathlon, I had on the LIVESTRONG shirt, and I still are low, strong Jersey, and I'm not wearing the same jersey, but I still have low, strong jerseys to this day. So thanks for being here for that. As we start in, I want to get for everybody who doesn't know since the end, I want to give a little bio for you. So everyone know knows who you are. According to your bio, you are a graduate of Texas fishing University and a native of Louisiana. What's that? Those frogs, frogs,

we have we have Nan signs for all of our schools. Okay, so

what do you do in Texas? Yes, it's

what we do. Right? Yeah. We all have hand signs. Yes.

All right. Cool. Cool. So you began your career in the television industry, you earned a regional Emmy Award, congratulations. You then spent some time up in New York, coaching a college women's basketball team running a station. But then since coming back to Texas, you've worked with local local nonprofits around the state like the Court Appointed Special Advocates Children's Miracle Network, like Travis Education Foundation, Susan Komen, greater Central and East Texas. Dang, you've done a lot of things. But then, when you're really looking for different ways to scale social impacts, you join LIVESTRONG, and you started to lead their mission in this initiatives in 2019. So what's your So as you've joined in with LIVESTRONG, can you talk a little bit about the time you have spent there, even before you became your President and CEO and what's that been like, and that evolution?

Yeah, absolutely. So I, when I moved to when I moved to Austin, I, I was already on, I had already figured out that for me in my in my life, that I wanted to have impact at scale. Right that I wanted to find ways to impact people's lives in a positive way. And be be the person that can lead lead that scaling right so one person is super important, but what if I could figure out how to impact 20 people or 100 people or 100,000 people? And that was something that was really important to me and still is today, looking at ways that we can change and work within the nonprofit community to really grow our scale and really grow that impact that's hard to do in the nonprofit world. It's not the way that we're built. It's not the way that nonprofits were designed to work or function. And so sometimes it can take a little bit of creativity and figure out how to make that happen. So coming to Austin, I got the most amazing job at Lake Travis Independent School District where I had a double sided business card truly did. And I was the Executive Director of the Education Foundation on one side. And then on the other side, I was the Director of Corporate Development. And at a school district was first the role had never existed before I got there, they made it up. And that was the first one to hold it. And that couldn't be more exciting to me like, yes, absolutely. Please give me no roadmap, I am in, please let me let me build the plane while I'm at 30,000 feet, I am so in. And that was a fascinating time and a fascinating job. I loved it watching, being able to raise money for the school district in two different ways marry these two existing revenue streams that were already happening. But that tended to be competing. At the same time, the impact that I was able to have was on the entire school district. So it wasn't, you know, it really, for me personally was like, I felt it felt really great knowing that the kids going to school had tools that were better than they were a few years ago, because of efforts that I had made to do things like build partnerships and collaborations. It was the teachers that are making the difference, right. It's the administrators that are implementing the plans, but putting partnerships and scaling things and retooling things to make them more efficient, or to make them more impactful. So that you see that residual impact. That's just that's so cool. To me. One of my favorite examples is apt apt one of the final things I did before I left the school district was I worked with a local landowner, the school district needed land in order to build a future Elementary School. And we had no money left from the bond and no money in the budget to purchase such land. But the district is growing at an alarming rate. And it needed that that land quickly. And so I worked with this philanthropist and landowner and developer who ultimately agreed to donate the land for $1. And so today, today, there's an elementary school, where that on that property. And that's amazing. And there are a bunch of kids go to elementary school there and families that have that have made roots in that community around that school, because of some conversations that and relationships that I was able to build with, with that particular landowner and, and share with him the value of what that land can really bring what that can really do for kids in the community. And to meet that's a great example of, of impact, scalable impact. So I went to, I went to Coleman after that. And we grew from five counties to 58, because I can't sit still, and and then coming to Livestrong was the opportunity to go from local to regional to. And that's what LIVESTRONG represents for me. And that's why I made that move.

So as you think about global to regional to local to regional to global, and LIVESTRONG and its continued evolution, where do you envision the future of LIVESTRONG and what's going to happen to it over the next few years under your leadership?

That's a heavy question.

It is, that's why you're here. You're the president and CEO, after all.

So the vision that I have for Livestrong over the next few years, is to bring more connection, like what you talked about earlier, more connection to more people around the world who have not heard of LIVESTRONG or who were not a part of that original, you know, lightning in the bottle moment where all of these people put on his yellow wristband and suddenly saying the word cancer was no longer something you whispered. Right? It became something you could say at a dinner party, hey, I have cancer or Joey has cancer or how are we going to support Sally? During her battle, and this this, the wristband to me is not just iconic represents the connection. And so when I think about what LIVESTRONG will do, as we, as we move forward into, into the back half of the 20s, is that what he's call it? The 2020? I don't know. No, I don't. It's

technique. It's not that hot. It's the 20. Yeah, it's great. Whatever it may be, we'll work on that for the next time. Yes,

we're I was born in the 1900s. Oh, whatever, whatever we call this. As we move forward, I want to again, I want to reintroduce this connection piece to people to Gen Z, right to people who've never heard of it, don't understand it, and whose social interactions through no fault of their own right, they were born, or born into this, they were born into social interactions that only happened digitally. And they be maybe don't, don't realize what that personal connection can really do. When it when you're going through something to find somebody that's similar. Like when you went to Imerman Angels, right? So Johnny, Johnny is a good friend of mine. And, and the whole idea of just saying, I just need to talk to somebody like me. That's what that's kind of at the core. What LIVESTRONG is, how do we improve your everyday quality of life, whatever quality of life means to you, part of that quality of life is connection. And so I hope that in, in five years, we're, we're all we're, we're ordering Morris Dance.

Well, I know we, I've already ordered a bunch. And then, as we've got this cactus man event, this triathlon, this weekend that they win, I've got not only LIVESTRONG material, but on cancer awareness material. And everybody's been saying, we're coming to the tables for the bands. And I was like, That is really cool to have dozens and dozens of people saying they're just coming for the band. So that's inspirational and says something about that. I know, one of the things you and I had talked a little bit about before was the star fishing principle. And that that's something that's a guiding stake in the ground. What's that all about?

So I was, you know, I think in life, you can't really understand, I think it's well back up. The beauty of being in the back half of life, is that that front half of life really informs your direction. And you no longer have to guess about where you're supposed to be going, really? And how to get there. That that insecurity of I don't know, is this where I, you know, I don't know, can I it kind of leaves for me kind of washes away, I've spent that that first half figuring life out, and then the back half, executing on the plan, right, executing that passion. So many, many years ago, I had, you know, several, just like all of us have kind of this, those those moments, those life defining moments, those events, those things that that change you that impact you that stick with you for a long period of time. And one of those for me was my work at Casa, which an organization Court Appointed Special Advocates, which I absolutely love. I started there as a volunteer wanting to help kids who were in abusive situations. They were Casa works with kids who were removed from their homes and as volunteers, you are their representative in court. Like we're not lawyers, these are these are people who are passionate but you are representing the child's best interest. There's training involved obviously there's a lot of work that goes into before you even get to be connected with a child. But seeing seen firsthand how my little life and my advocacy for this one individual changed his child's life change this child's trajectory for the better. And I was like that's pretty cool. I mean, that's really that's amazing. And so I started working there, it was only supposed to be temporary. And that didn't last. So it did last it lasted the temporary part did not last but soon I had my own office in my closet. It was a closet we cleaned out a storage closet so I can have an often

no view no no view of the elementary school or of the empty plot that was going to be the elementary school. No, definitely not. There was no

window no window insight. And just the broom closet door literally is pretty greatness. But I would say it was the best office in the best office in the in the place. But I went to my executive director one time, and I was really frustrated because it's really hard work. Like you can imagine the emotional toll that this work takes on you. I am working 40 million hours a week. And happily gladly. But I don't feel like I'm doing anything. I am not doing anything. I am not. We're can't even touch the hundreds of kids who are coming through this. The system in this little tiny town that was that I was living in not Austin, this little tiny town. i We're not this is just the impact doesn't like we're not doing anything. So she told me. She told me this principle or this parable. And so I retell it probably badly, but I shortened it a lot. So if you've heard it before this see this man is walking on the beach sees a figure in the distance, and figures throwing something into the ocean. As as the old man gets close, I imagine that old man being like our age, right,

so I guess sadly, right on the on the back half of life. Yes, though. Yes. Right.

So the old man, but this is a suitable one. So the old man gets there. And he's like to use current current language, bro. Bro, what are you doing? Man? He like he sees this, this young young kid with starfish, just hundreds and hundreds on the manosphere. And he says, you know, bro, kit? What are you doing? Like, you can't save all of these starfish. You're not making a difference at all. The kid picks another starfish up, tosses it in the ocean and says it made a difference to that one. And so for a while, for a while. That was just for me. That was good enough for me. I was like, okay, you know what? She's right. It is. She's right, that parable is right. It's great. I've made a difference to this one. And, and that's important. And I don't discount that it it is important. But as I moved, as I moved through that thought process, probably a couple months later, I kind of had this idea. And I thought, what if he didn't do that? What if he didn't throw the starfish back. Instead, he turned around, and he went back to town. And he gathered all of the people that were just as passionate about saving starfish as he was. And he brought them all back to the beach. Not only could they clear the beach of the starfish, maybe they could figure out why they got there in the first place and make sure it never happened again. And that is my starfish in principle. And that guides me as my starfish. That is my starfish in principle because that's impact at scale. That is that is going beyond just saying I'm going to save this cat, or this child or this one type of fern. This is me saying I'm gonna go understand what is happening that is causing this problem. And I'm going to fix it. But I can't do it alone. I need I need other people with me on that train. And I'm gonna go find those people. And maybe there's already a train that's out there. And I just didn't even know. Like, there's a whole community out there that loves the purple spotted fern. And I just was clueless about that until I started looking. But there are other people no matter what your passion is, there are other people who share that passion. There are other people. And when you go and take just a moment and you go and find them, bring them all together, collaborate, you will find people who are way smarter than you because that's what I find every day. People who are whose gifts are so profound, and so much bigger than my own. That when we collectively come together for the one purpose of making, making life better for anybody affected by cancer fixing thing by saving the purple spotted fern. Not only are we saving the firm, but we're figuring out what's causing that in the first place and making sure it never happens again. And for me that's impact at scale. And that's that's my star fishing principle that I I really employ for everything in my life now.

And certainly you're seeing that as you're replan as you're Rhian reimagining and thinking about the future for Livestrong and, and the opportunities there. There are just so many different things. There's so many different avenues there. Again, I It's fascinating to me as you're talking crude that you and I've talked a little bit in the past about this, I've rolled out this book that the impact of scale this My Book was meant to be a scale of one amended as a gift to my daughter that is, and then, okay, maybe I can change a few people's lives of one or two people might get checked and then hear, hearing him talking with you about how we can extend and expand so people are aware of I'm thinking about this and being fully supportive. That's, that's amazing. Thank you. Yeah, one of the things that I know, LIVESTRONG has been really focused on, and you talked a little bit about it, is making the quality of life better versus research. And then that is a big, key distinctive difference for Livestrong. And we've talked some about the brand, we've talked some about how people identify with what the yellow band means. But could you give a little bit more of that perspective of making life better? So that as people are relearning about what does LIVESTRONG mean to them, and the impact LIVESTRONG can have? Can you say a little bit more about that?

Yeah, absolutely. So when we think about, you know, I think about the differentiator between LIVESTRONG and other cancer organizations in, you know, in the nonprofit community and in for profit community. The differentiator is quality of life, and survivorship. So, we are the only organization that begins at survivorship. And survivorship we define as the moment that you're diagnosed. Now, individually, people have, and I've been in this cancer space long enough now to absolutely respect and understand that everybody has a different point at which they're comfortable calling themselves a survivor. You're us, we we put our definition, at the moment you're diagnosed, because you've survived that day. And that's not a small day. Right. And so, that's what we call survivors. There are so many organizations out there that are like colon cancer, right? That are very specific to disease specific, and they are doing incredible work on research, you know, we've got to find a cure, we've got to find better treatments, whether it's lymphoma, whether it's colon cancer, ovarian cancer, leukemia, geo blast, I mean, all of that, although they're all of them have individual organizations that are disease specific. But we're the only one that comes to anyone affected by cancer, because, you know, just like your, your book, it's a great example, right? You got cancer, your whole family got cancer. It wasn't just you that had to go through chemo, you know, the, the journey, the one person's physical journey is just the tip of the iceberg. It's just the beginning of the effect that this disease can have on the community, around that person, whatever that looks like. So I don't see us as competitive to anybody else. I see us as collateral.

Complimentary? Yes, yes.

And so, you know, I, I talked to all those different organizations, what are you all doing? If, you know, how are those how are those new and novel treatments going? Like? How does that impact the person? So our intersection, While research is very important. In fact, I was just in Washington, DC with many of our volunteers, not just from lift strong, but the American Cancer Society, we joined forces in one voice against cancer, an incredible Initiative, where we go to Capitol Hill and we lobby for continued and increased funding for NIH, and the CDC and other institutions that are funding really important research into better treatments to increase the quality of life. When you have cancer. Our intersection is saying, Okay, you have this thing, welcome to the club that you've never wanted to be in. And now we're going to help you. Right? You didn't want to you didn't want to be here. So we've created resources and, and opportunities to increase your quality of life in the way that you need it. Not the way that we're prescribing. Because everybody's definition of quality of life is different. And everybody is unique. So I talk a lot about quality versus quantity and kind of that seesaw that the end of it every individual chooses, you can choose a very aggressive path of treatment and understand the side effects that that aggressive path might take, right that might have on your life and choose that aggressive path. Other people or with the same disease state. And the exact same disease state may choose a very different path of treatment, which has maybe no treatment at all. Or only this type of treatment or a scaled down version, right to go completely the other direction, they may choose no treatment at all. And that is their choice and affects their quality of life. Care. Also, both things affect the quantity of life. But that's something that only you the individual can talk about with your care team, right? That's an individual choice.

Ultimately, ultimately, in the beauty of LIVESTRONG, and the phrase, mean, I've talked about that for years and years of what does live strong to me, it means living my best life, living strong. And I until I never really thought about that until the wait, I've got I've said it, but I hadn't thought about it in the way you're describing it. That's yeah.

You, your whatever your strong is, that's your journey. And we want to be here to intersect to add to that to be additive to that journey. So when you get diagnosed, we created a guide book and a planner that can help you and the people that are on the journey with you, document, ask the right questions, understand it's a physical, it's a big old fat book. Now, it's an old school, you know, like a real life thing that you can hold in your hand. But of course, you can have a digitally if you want to. We're creating one for adolescents and young adults right now, that focuses specifically on some of the challenges that they will have that are different, like fertility, we have a fertility program, fertility is an incredibly expensive thing to go through. So you get diagnosed with cancer, let's say you're 30 years old, you're newly diagnosed with cancer, you're married, you have no children. And the doctor tells you that in three days, you're going to start infusion treatments, and it will compromise your ability to ever have children. And that's not a made up scenario. No, it's not literally every single day to hundreds and hundreds of people. And the reality is many of them. Just say I don't care, I just fix it right, just just make me better. We want to we offer an opportunity, then some of them will go to a fertility clinic and find out that it is for women preservation, averages $10,000. Who can come up with 10 grand and, you know, a week,

especially given the context of being a cancer patient. I know as a man, my solutions were a lot easier, but they were very expensive and immediate decisions that you had to make to. Absolutely,

and and what if you don't have a partner? Like what if you just what if you're like, this could change my life like this is already changing my life. But I don't know if I want to have kids. But what if I want to have kids like this whole you are, you are in this incredibly vulnerable moment in time. And the fertility process is stressful. It's emotional, and it's expensive. And so we've put together a fertility program. And we have a network of over 250 clinics around the country who have all collectively said, we're going to help you. We're going to expedite all of this. And we're going to do it for less. So they offer a deeply reduced rates for people who come through our program. And then we have a great partnership with Andy Sirocco, who provides free medication gets overnighted to the to their door. So you have so you have the date of diagnosis. And literally days later you're undergoing. You're in treatment for your for fertility preservation, so that you can have the small window of time that you can take advantage of that doesn't still expensive, don't get me wrong. But we can make a big difference in how expensive that is. And hook you up with a clinic that's completely compassionate and understands the journey that you're going through and as already said, you know, held up their hand and said, Hey, we're a part of the solution. We're going to help you out. So fertility is what and then there are so many other things. Like is it a Facebook fact? Is this apple cider vinegar really cure my cancer? My arm? My arm

leech, leech, right. Bleach can be the solution, right? Absolutely. Absolutely.

There are so many things I do. I call them apple cider vinegar, cures and Facebook facts. And we want to make sure that people who are going through this can really stop Googling, to stop. It's the word. You know, Google is an amazing tool for information. But it also can be scary because you can't tell what's real and what isn't. Right and in times of immense vulnerability, emotionally, you're willing to latch on to anything that says he can make you better. So where can we meet you? Okay,

so where can we direct people to before we make a little pivot here? Where can we direct people to so that they can get more of this information about LIVESTRONG, and all the great work that you're doing?

Yeah, so it's pretty easy. So it's just livestrong.org. So O RG, so LIVESTRONG, one word, dot o RG, you'll jump up, we actually have a, we're relaunching our website on May 1 of 2024. So depending on when you're listening to this podcast, or watching it, or watching this podcast, it could be a different site, depending but when when you get there, you'll see, it just asks you, Are you a patient? Are you a caregiver? Are you a survivor? Where are you and then we're going to be able to provide you resources, articles, information, other nonprofits, because we're a collaborative group with other nonprofits all around the country that can help you in your journey. We have a great partnership with with the what with why USA. So as you come out of treatment, and you want to get strong again, we've created an exercise recovery program with why USA, and we've got a lot, a lot, a lot more things out there. But those are the pieces it's about, how do I live better? And what are the choices that I need to make for me and my family? Do I need answers about insurance? Yeah, I had a phone call just the other day with a man who is very similar to my age, who wants to move to a different location where he will have more family support, because but he's afraid because his insurance is on the history of the marketplace, that he won't be able to receive treatment in this new state. If he switches states, where he can have more treat, you know, more family support? That's a real, it's a real question for him, like, does he stay to receive care here, where everybody has to fly to him? And he knows he has insurance? Or can you just move that insurance? Like, how does that work? That's a big question. And doctors don't know the answer. Right. But I can connect you with some insurance experts who do know the answer, because I don't know the answer, either. Depending on your insurance type, right? It's things like that. Right? That are that profoundly impact your future, or similarly, talking to somebody about a couple months ago, who lives in New York, and decided that they wanted to come to, to Texas to get treated. And the conversation that we got to have with this individual about is that is the quality of care better? In one or the other place? And also, what is it like when you have your family surrounding you in New York, and new surroundings?

And that's the quality of care to exactly.

Yeah, so there's more to consider than just getting treated. It's quality of life. It's patient centered care, how are you the patient going to navigate through this journey. And when we put the patients at the center, our decisions start to change. And that's, that's a lot of what we work towards every program that we we work on, put the patient at the center, and then those decisions start to change. Beautiful

livestrong.org. All right. Okay. So quick little pivot, and I want to be super sensitive to your time. You've been so gracious already. Obviously, the name of this podcast is called gut checks. And I think we've talked a little bit historically, obviously, LIVESTRONG has gone through some gut checks over the last 20 years, you probably had a few gut checks. What does having a gut check mean to you?

gut check moments. Those to me are very pivotal. It's when you're challenged. And and then you notice how you respond and didn't know it. Like didn't know that you would respond in that way. For me. My one of my gut check moments was in upstate New York. I was at the park with my son. He was super tiny. So a little Yep. The little he couldn't walk I call them super tiny when you can't walk. So he was a super tiny I had him in my stroller in the stroller. And it was one beautiful day in New York and walking through the park and and I witnessed a young child get out of a car. And the child's what I learned was the child's mother got out on the other side came around the child was probably five or six years old. The mother comes around the other side and hits that child so hard that the child falls to the ground. It was at a park and I froze for a second. And then I took my son out of the stroller. And I marched myself over there. In this large group of people, because there was a family unit there, it wasn't just the two of them. And I said something quite loudly. And I was advocating for this child. And I was angry. And I was furious at what I saw. And this was before cell phones. So there was no, like,

you can just call 911 or Right, right.

nominee, and, and when the moment is all over, regardless of what exactly happened, and I was walking back home, I thought, wow, that was really surprising. I don't know that I knew I would do that. Like, I didn't know that I would react in that way. That of course, you want to help. But that's, I mean, I had my kid. Like, there's that instinctive, protective, like you run from danger and not walk to danger. And, and that's what I joined casa, that that again, that journey words towards Kasia for me, was that gut check moment that said, You know what, I am brave. I am brave. And I can stand up. When I see something that's wrong, I can say something, I can do something. And that that was a profound moment and kind of that for me, a gut check moment about who I really am on the inside that

deep moment of inner resolve. Thank you for sharing that. That's That's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. Obviously. Given the we're talking about gut checks and cancer surviving, we've talked senator, big key message for me is that the ACS American Cancer Society is talking about the screening age dropping down to 45. And that people need to get screened, and that you have shared with me that you've been screened, and you've had to have been tested. What would you say to those people who are afraid to be tested or afraid to be screened? What would what would you say? Or encourage them to do?

I would think I would say number one, it's a great nap.

That is true. That is the best nap ever, isn't it? It's the best the best man

did not lie. He was like, listen, you're gonna sleep? Well, it's great. You know, we we spend a lot of time making excuses for for our behavior, we we spend a lot of time and fear and not getting checked is just being it's being fearful. And it's not saying oh, I don't want that invasion, or there's nothing wrong with me or I don't have any family history, I truly believe that there's a lot of fear. And saying I'd really rather not know. It's like when you don't want to open the credit card bill, because you really

just don't Oh, you shouldn't have said that. Because I'd come on sitting on my desk right now that I've just there. It's no, it's not good. I, I'd be more afraid of the credit card than I am about a colonoscopy. Oh my gosh, right.

So so when you if you can, I would encourage people to think of it in that way. This is, the longer you ignore this small test, the more frightened you will likely become of what's inside. Right. And it's, it's just like, you know, we got physicals, when we were kids. They, they were measuring our shoe size and seeing if we had scoliosis, this is a painless test that can save your life. My grandmother passed away from colon cancer. And she didn't have to. But she lived in a really tiny town. And I'm sure she ignored her symptom. And even if she would have had to travel a long way to get to get checked, you know, there was all of these barriers to care barriers to screening. She was a very smart woman but I I know beyond a shadow of a doubt there was no education around screening, you know, in the 70s Oh

no, for sure. Yeah.

And so had she been screened very different outcome. So leaving in order to leave your legacy you have to be here. You got to be here believe it you got to be here. So if you want to see your grandkids if you want to see your kids make make a difference if you want to save a single starfish, if you want to make a difference that one and then you got to take care of yourself. You got to put your mask on first man. Just go get screened. Do the whole box thing if you're if you really aren't into the nap. But there's no there's no reason not to. There are only reasons to

do Thank you for for that. And whether it's saving one starfish or many right that, I mean that that makes a difference. Yeah. Suzanne, thank you so much for your time today. It has been a delight I'm, as I said, you were one of the first people I contacted when I started going down this new journey for me, and I can't wait to continue to work with you in the future. So really appreciate your time today.

You're very welcome, Paul. I'm excited to see how many starfish you can save. I know you've already impacted a lot of lives you'll never know about. And that's, that's the coolest thing. So congratulations on this phenomenal book, this great journey that you're on. It's going to be awesome. So keep going. I'm excited to be a part

of it, too. Thank you and I will see you in October for sure. At the LIVESTRONG challenge in Austin, so, so and fantastic. And another time we'll talk about some best everything's all right. Okay, I'm saying I'm heading. Thank you. Have a wonderful day. Thank you too. Bye.