Seizing Opportunities in Distressed Commercial Properties with Patrick Grimes

FN Intro/Outro: Welcome to the Freedom Nation podcast with Jeff Kikel. On this show, Jeff shares his expertise in financial and retirement planning from a different perspective. Planning for Your Freedom Day, which is the first day that you wake up and have enough income or assets and do not have to go to work that day. Learn how to calculate what you need, how to generate income sources, and listen to interviews from others who've done it themselves. Get ready to experience your own Freedom Day.

Hello, Freedom Bation. It's Jeff here once again, and we are on the freedom nation Podcast. Today. I've got Patrick Grimes on with invest on Main street.com. So he's going to talk to us a little bit about what he does and helps investors invest in distressed commercial property as well as distressed debt or debt instruments. So Patrick, welcome. How are you today? Sir?

Jeff, really excited to be here. I'm doing great. on a on a on a little bit of a trip here over the summer in Honolulu. So a little earlier my time than yours. And like before, during raging and in the conversation.

Yeah, you do realize it's October so it's not summer anymore did

Extending the trip? incrementally? We're in the fall.

Yeah, amazingly, we've stretched it a little bit farther. So Well, cool. So while why don't we get started, Patrick, by telling us a little bit about your story. I had to get to where you are today.

Well, so I like many of your listeners wasn't cubicle warrior. That gives an incredible place and I actually have run ready to do what I did was machine design automation and robotics. I have a bachelor's in mechanical engineering, a master's engineering and an MBA and I I did automation for medical devices solar cells, Evie vehicles defense, aerospace really cool, like one of a kind custom machines. And I was paid. Well, I would. It was it was adventurous because I was constantly working on new gizmos and gadgets, a geek Kevin Right. And yeah, when I got some advice early on to go, in fact, I the owner of that machine design firm first one that I worked for, he said that his real regret was not investing more in real estate sooner, and then I should buy as much as I can as soon as I can. So I did get rid of your real fast out there, I got that advice, and quickly lost everything in 2008 Nine been way too hasty leveraging too much. All in and development, risky assets, and everything flipped upside down, but worked my way out of that follow the breadcrumbs of the wealthy because I was still high paid professional, I had to somewhere at best. And that led me back to real estate kicking and screaming, were much more risk averse calculated way. And that's what led to kind of the growth of a single family to large apartment portfolio. Like that is now 4000 Plus units and half a billion in real estate as well as you know, a large oil and gas portfolio, we've got over $20 million and, and natural gas and oil wells. And we have this acquisitions fund and debt fund as we talked about to so they really want to take advantage of the recession.

So let's let's kind of step back a little bit. How did you get started single family? Were you just buying house by house at that point? Or did you start you know, pulling in investors to be able to buy a bigger portfolio or as you do it?

So after losing everything in pre development, which was the very speculative side and you know, when I was in before 2008 Nine I wanted to buy I learned about cash flow, right I learned about buying and recession resilient markets and sovereign public wealth. Yeah, I was in Southern California where it's not landlord friendly aside tax advantaged and you know, it's just in can't buy for cash flow it's horrible place so yeah, I need to go and it's a bunch of analysis and research and build an analyst myself and I I arrived at Texas and Houston specifically. So I started buying existing assets with known comparables that they were trailing behind. And I could buy renovate and measurable improvement, an existing cash flowing asset and then cashflow and then I can refi out my capital and and then repeat and essentially what they call the burr method now I didn't know that I don't think that it was called that back then it was just doing real estate deals. So it's just

Yeah, you're you're just renovating and flip but yeah.

I'm hiring you know you're older. Okay. Yeah. But I when I was just making work and I was doing lighting it was my wife and I it was brutal. Because you know your heightened demanding high pain whether you're a doctor attorney Whatever in engineering, traveling around getting master's degrees, trying to make it work at your cash flow income job, trying to become your own expert in another industry, whatever you want to stay at, or any any other side gig is demanding, say it takes 1000 hours to get mastering something worth writing done that what you're doing, doing that again, and something else is brutal. And there's always somebody ahead of you. Because, yeah, you know, there's always the next guy getting deals a little bit better than mine that had been in the industry for decades longer than me. So it was it was through at a time when I was I was succeeding, but I was burning the candle at both ends. And I realized I needed to take a break and to marry my wife. So that was when I did my last single family closing. And after that, I told her we're trading up we're partnering now we're learning I'm partner with existing operators, we're going to trade into larger multifamily assets that we can we can buy in different markets, and I can partner with guys that will help acquire and manage as well as renovate these. And we can scale and I can use my superpowers, which is deal finding and analyzing and what went ended up being counseled raising two, it turns out a large network of high tech professionals. Yeah, investing with me and who, like you

That were looking to Okay, yeah, all right. Yeah. How do I do this, and you just kind of led the path for him.

I guess it was just, we had only invested millions of dollars into automation equipment. And then when I that was, and I said, Well, let's do something that's a lot less risky. Right, let's do a better worked out. So yeah, we built a large portfolio invest on Main Street, is was is the brand and and we have lots of investors in real estate, oil and gas that have benefited in passive investing masteries what we have now, when shed, get it towards educating diversified portfolio of assets, all non correlated to the stock market, they'll rise and fall with the stock market, tax advantaged income, cash flow, that's really our focus, and recession resilience, obviously, because that's the that's the big key word for me, because I don't want to lose it again. I've been really, really cautious, the tortoise not there, and building my my portfolio to date. And we're uniquely positioned at this point to really take advantage of some of the really amazing buys right now that we're seeing.

So let's talk a little bit about that you primarily are focused on the commercial market. What what are you seeing? I mean, I know there's, you hear it in the news, and you hear you know, I know on my other podcast, we talked about a lot of what's going on with the regional banks and some of the commercial property. So talk a little bit about it from your perspective as an investor.

Yeah, so the, the last three to five years, say the last 10 years very different, right than what it is like today was before that, we would buy properties. And we could rely on steady state rent growth. And that meant that if we bought something that was a little under market, we could renovate it, and then bump up those rents, and then that would attribute to a greater valuation, right, we could get great cash flow and valuation. Well, now when interest rates rising, it's harder to cash flow. And these asset evaluations are subsiding. You know, 1520s in some markets 30% in commercial real estate, so there's a big reset happening. And so if you don't go in, and the principles I talked about, which could be a whole different podcasts on how to build recession, resilience in your portfolio, but our principles are very low leverage, which means low loan to values, cash flowing, lots of capital, reserves, replacement, insurance, recession, resilient markets, all these things landlord friendly, if you bet at all to last, then you'll write this out. And that's what we're doing. But how to do a deal today, what's very different, and the DRS three to five years ago are different than today and the deals in three to five years from now, we're going to be very different than today. What's happening today is I'm getting calls constantly for operators, owners, metal to large commercial assets, and are struggling. Yeah, apparently, maybe they just got unlucky and they got a short term bridge loan. It's coming due right now. And they're, they're all of their cash flow is eaten up by inflation and higher interest rate payments. Insurance has gone up tax has gone up. Movie, they had a bunch of COVID delinquencies, which has been a major problem, people didn't restart paying rents. You have your COVID Rent rent assistance dried up, and then the courts got backed up. Right. So there's just a ton of reasons why these amazing real estate deals are performing cash flowing properties are financially under distress. It's not the property. It's the operators, right. So distressed the operator, not the asset, and those are two different those are value different things. It's not

Like it's a dilapidated building that you're buying, you're buying a nice building with a, with a dilapidated owner that

Yeah, they, you know, they just didn't they didn't set themselves up with enough resilience in their operating business or financial foundation of the property or the insurance or the reserves or whatever it is to be able to ride this out. And, and so we can be the source of relief, we can be the source of relief that it has happens like every day I somebody hit me up, we can be a source of relief financially to a financial issue, not in distress issue, but a financial issue, which is, which is either through our pin rapid lending, our originating company that does loans, commercial loans, where you can be the source of gap or bridge lending, which can help them if their loans coming through and they need a bridge to get past it. Or maybe their interest rate cap moves to be re opt which is used to be 100,000. Now it's a million dollars and they didn't plan for that right and they need some lemonade or maybe they need you know, the room structure their debt, or maybe they slowly learned more capex budget cuz inflation increase and they can get they're almost done. They're like 10% 20% and go, you know, it's a reliable source of relief by providing Gaffur Bridgeland through our income fine and so investors in our income fund can enjoy incredible, incredibly high interest rates right now from great performing assets because interest rates are up. Sure, banks are can are pulling back they're lending is a sort of the same performing asset cash flowing asset, like we just saw digit ended a while now is a right now we're in the process of its cash flows intended as a 1010 cap rate, a 10% cap rate property, so it's cash flowing at all cash, 10 percents performing asset. It's a 50% loan to value and we're averaging that at 13%, with two points, so that's like 15% in the first year. I mean, that's an amazing interest rate for an investor to get monthly cash flow out of first position, I had less than half of loan to value, very, very safe. And savvy equity investors right now are getting screwed, because all of that value is coming out of their pocket. Primary debt investors the senior debt, the first position, are in a much safer spot, because they're the last person to lose the outdraw the equity loses. And they've got the high interest rates today. So it's totally interesting. So on the debt side, we have that and on the equity side of their, like, their operators, like not I went out, or we believe in them, they don't believe that they're gonna get out or to say, like, we'll just buy it, then we can come in and all cash on an all cash we can buy it, we can backfill it with, with leverage if we want, but that that allows us to reset the basis of this property at a price point where we can where it will be a healthy project, sure, where we can cash it, that's something Yes,

Something that then you're gonna you're gonna take control that project, do whatever you need to and then resell it, or what typically are you doing or renting it out?

That's already the asset, the asset we just picked up. We got it at 4.1 million in cash. Okay. Right. And there was two other higher offers, but we closed in after we completed due diligence we we closed in 14 days. So we just came on cash bought. And this is really the acquisition fund, then we have the debt fund or income fund the acquisition fund. So in this one, we chose to just buy the asset right? Got it was in the acquisition acquisition fund investors get to enjoy a lot more upside. Yeah, so we bought it, and there was 200 offers right after we bought it, we appraised at $5 million. So right after the bat, you know, we're almost a million dollars on a $4 million asset just from buying, right. And that's the key. Yeah. Now, it happens to be that that asset cash flows right off the bat, very strong cash flow, but it cash flows at 60% occupancy, which is what it's at. Okay, well, there's 40%, upside from just doing a lease up. And the honors, were not sophisticated there were just Mom and Pop living in California managing Midwest property, and just didn't know what to do. We hunted it down, off market closed quick got in and the after the after lease out value was appraised at 8 million. So there isn't really a lot of lift to be done. Yeah. Just somebody who's not financially distressed that has the ability to catch up and doesn't have this not behind on loan payments didn't have it hasn't been debt,

You own it straight up and you're able to cash flow that your for your investors, you're able to cashflow them while you get it you know improved upon which

We have encountered on the know how to market it right to get the occupied get the right brokers in place and to do that swiftly. So the key behind recessionary acquisitions is buying right into buying and then hoping on three to five year growth. I don't want to put my investors capital in a three to five year deal. If it's one asset, because they're gonna miss this entire vine window, it's one of the most extraordinary buying windows of our lives. And so I want to go to the acquisitions, fine, we're gonna immediately buy things, right, we're gonna do a quick few months mainly lease up, or very light improvements, if any, then we're going to refi a part of our capital, like 50%, real low by a second asset, and then do an exchange of the first to a third. So the first asset just turned into two assets, we're going to do that and into four, and that and eight. And so by swiftly trading foreign and keeping the wasI of capital high, buying as many times as you can, stair stepping yourself up as you go, during this window for the next three to five years, when it was just, I really couldn't do this three to five years where the deals were just not this this good on the buy.

It'd be Yeah, you couldn't even do it two years ago. I mean, it's really been last year and a half to two years that this has started. And I mean, I think it's, there's a lot more worse to come, you know, because I don't think interest rates are going down anytime soon. Yeah, if you listen to the Fed, that basically saying that it's going to be high for longer than you think, at this point, and we may even see higher. So for I would assume for your investors, it's a good thing, because they're getting typically higher rates. They don't have that, you know, they don't have the downside of bonds or rates go up and their bond prices go down at that point. So kind of the bonus plan on top of that. So you run to funds once the acquisition ones the debt, those are for accredited investors. Correct.

Right. So when I started out, even on my very first deal, I've only ever offered 1000 200,000 minimums at credited investors and I didn't do the friends and family route, like I have only lost anything. Once I went, I went to very sophisticated investors that knew the risks. And that's how I started and I've always been that way. Now, if you're not if you have listeners, which are not accredited investors, I'm happy to chat with you accredited or non accredited either way, I love to passionate about getting people on the path because I was once non accredited, you know, and it took some some people that invested time in me to kind of guide me along the way to get there. Right. If you're not then set up a call and repeat for that do deals for non accredited investors. They're not on the podcast talking about him because they're not allowed to solicit. That's the whole catch 22. Right. So take somebody like me, but yeah, so 100,000 minimums, and accredited investors, you have a and if you're interested, I mean that that fund, we can invest as little as 90 days. So that 100 Random, you got sitting in the bank collecting less than a percent losing with inflation, there's no reason that shouldn't go into a rolling 90 Day liquidity option, which is 7% 188 and a half 11 on 1010 and 11 on one to three years. So and then if you have three years with the equity side, we can go above 12 and a half percent. So I mean, it's a moving it monthly cash flow with upside. And as I was telling you the way that the loans are today, there's a lot of exciting dead products you can get that give me in return, it was almost like some of the equity deals of yesteryear. Yet, without the volatility of it, though the volatility, the first position on the property. I mean, I just got done saying that commercial real estate's 1015 20 30% Maybe in some markets, well remember, we were like, 50% loan to value. I mean, we're so you know, so it's it's much harder for asset backed real estate debt funds to lose an eye interest rate environment like this.

Yeah, it's fantastic. So for credited, you know, for the audience, accredited investor, you make at least 200 grand a year or million dollars in investable assets. At that point, it is your house. So, you know, I think everybody should work to that in their lives, quite frankly, I mean, because there, there are so many more opportunities in the accredited space, you know, for those of you that are out there that are that are already to one of those two points, you know, these are, these are the opportunities that are out there. And, you know, we've been trained, unfortunately, by my industry, we've been trained to say, Oh, well, anything over 10% You know, in the stock market is too risky, or there's tons of risk and quite frankly, there's a lot of things that make way better than the stock market and have way less risk. The difference is liquidity in most cases there's not as much liquidity and a lot of these things. Although your your short dairy your debt fund really does have great liquidity and still fantastic rates on you know, on that those short term rates.

You know, I get I'm constantly in phone calls with investors, and they're saying, you know, whether deals should I invest in right because I'm in your acquisitions fine. And I'm like, and they're like, Well, I've got out like 100 and 1,000,002 million, I think you guys got $5 million sitting in a bank account or a brokerage account, right? And the right now if you didn't sue, while Citibank, Chase Wells Fargo, Bank of America, yeah, less than, like point oh 1% interest rate, you know, losing 5%, I'm not actual inflation over 5% a year. That is, and if you're just socking that away, or maybe I'll buy a rental in three months, or maybe I'll invest in the market, or something in three months, well, a 90 day Note that you can choose to roll forward is a great response for that. It's exactly

Well, and you've got people that have been sitting on cash for years, you know, just sitting there, I'd have got a client, a new client that I brought on board and I mean, perfect example, you know, between his his individual accounts and his business, he was sitting on like, two and a half million dollars. And yeah, I mean, I just once you sometimes you have to make that simple step. And it was like, Okay, why don't we just move some money and put it into a money market? You're gonna go from making point nothing to five and a quarter percent. Okay, that's a start. Now, let's look at ways that we can improve on it. But yeah, it's just it's scary to see how many people I mean, it's great that they have cash, but they you know, that feel good. Doesn't always feel so good when you start to realize your your, you know, when you put real numbers to it, and we did the basic numbers for him, and it was like, Dude, that's like a vacation and a lot every year that you're just giving up because you're you're leaving the money in a bank account,

if he's got that way is probably losing my entire, like mortgage in Hawaii. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's that it's that brutal, you know? Yeah. So aside from just cash in the bank, and, you know, the fear of inflation and potentially regional bank collapsing, I mean, because if you haven't ever if you ever were to order 50,000 or whatever, 300,000 Then you're leveraging and a destabilize banking system, you're putting at risk that those funds and asset backed real estate, especially in the senior position is much safer bet yeah. And in these but the Aside from that conversation, there's trillions of dollars sending an IRA 401 K accounts and the you know, I've got tons of investors that they're, they're under the impression that they're, you know, employee sponsored IRAs or 401. K's are locked up and hidden away. And that's not the case i i write for Forbes, I've got a ton of articles. I just I just published a new one. The Howard invest for the upside of downturns, Patrick Grimes, Forbes, and I've got some out there, specifically on how to allocate a piece of your retirement funds Ira before we'll get into self directed variance. Yep. which allow you to invest in alternative to help balance where America has the majority of their wealth in their single family home and in their retirement funds. Yep, help balance that out of the stock market right now that wild rollercoaster. And putting some of that into acquisitions funds like mine, where you can win from the downturn helps to hedge against the decline of the rest of the portfolio, or into and debt fund rate retirement accounts were built for debt funds, because they're just insistently push out cashflow. They don't have any tax issues with debt funds. So the income fine is just magical. And we're gonna have to really, if you really go down the IRA rabbit hole. There's even something called you a bit where when we invest into, you know, real asset, sometimes the government can be like, hey, maybe well, so like, some fluids or taxes essentially on part of what you're earning. But was was sophisticated to the point where both in our acquisitions and debt fund we have ubit blockers, right, which allow you to avoid having to pay you bit file the ubit returns. And we can just pass through what we a higher return as if you would have just invested directly, so fantastic, that belt for people looking to diversify their cash positions, like you said there as well as their retirement accounts, because these are the vehicles that will get you there faster.

But I mean, I look at it too. It's not just people that are sitting on cash. It's people that are sitting with bonds in their portfolio right now we're in a bond, bear market massively, you know, the the 20 year debt fund TLT is down. I think 23% Over the last two years, and what people are relying on to be their safe portion of their portfolio. So you know, I mean, we've had portions of this year where stocks have dropped, I mean August stocks drop and bonds dropped at the same time. So having these type of other types of diversification utilizing real estate debt and everything else in a portfolio is me it's an alternative to bonds especially in this rising rate, environment

And great 100% The channel languish with everybody right now is just that fear. Yeah, I really hate. I really hate that, quote Warren Buffett said when others are fearful is your time to be greedy. Because I'm an analyst, I don't think you should ever be greedy, or fearful, I think you should just be calculated, but for when others are fearful, that is an interesting time to dig into the numbers. Yeah. And right now is is, is if you can look past the fear laundry on the news, and you can look past, you know that that sense of just hoarding era like I feel safe, because I have cash in a volatile bank account or something in a retirement account managed by somebody else in Wall Street, right? You can look past that. And you can actually, literally that was, this was actually one of the most unique and advantageous times to invest in real estate, both on the debt and equity side for decades. And so those are the the typical accredited investors I'm having conversations with, and they're kind of overcoming fear. Yeah, but the institutional investors are just dumping cash into these acquisitions and our debt funds. In fact, typically, we would have like 140 to 230 average investment for a deal, but it's because we've had such large checks from high net worth individuals coming in, you know, 4 million plus checks. Yeah, that it's, it's gone up above a million dollars on ours. Now, we did our right to $100,000 investors, but I think now the bigger players are moving, they're deploying capital for this very limited window that you can do so for these higher returns.

Yeah, makes complete sense. And then you're in the position where, okay, you're earning higher rates as other things are going down. You're continuing to earn higher rates for a while. Exactly. Fantastic. Is there anything new in your world that you guys are working on are

So when the between the acquisitions Fund and the dead fund, we're just having a really great time, there's a lot of exciting things I recommend, you know, reach out week if wherever anybody's out, I'd happy to get in pointed in the right direction.

Okay, fantastic. Well, let's jump into the Fast Five questions now.

Ready? Fire away. Alright.

So you wake up in the morning. Question number one, you wake up in the morning, business is gone. Yep. 500 bucks in your pocket laptop computer place to live? What are you going to do first?

Yeah, so I suppose these are the questions I should have prepared for. So we're gonna get like the off the cuff. So I don't have any savings. I only have 500 bucks. Everything is one. Do I have my wife and my puppy and my baby boy, have your

Have your whole family, everything else? Place to Live food, all that good stuff. What are you going to do first day?

What am I going to do for this day? Well, I'm gonna go and look for whether that immediate income is support the family, right? Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do first day. So I don't know how else to say that. But you gotta pay the bills. Yeah, you gotta. And then obviously you're gonna look for you know that next is I'm, I'm an entrepreneur at heart. I'm a serial entrepreneur. I'm a very calculated guy. So I'd be looking forward just like I am now. What's the way to lean into whatever it is that cause that issue, just like now we're, we're turned our business around completely. And we'll focused on leaning into the downturn. Now. So recessionary acquisitions and recession are income fun. So whatever that is, that drew us down, figuring out a way to win from the upside of that downturn or whatever it is that drove us to that position is what I would do. Now for me if I have 500 bucks in my pocket, I because I'm Ohio's out, high pain engineering tech professional, I was just killed back in D that saved my money, and then started flipping single family homes and get back into the game again, pretty quick. So you know that that'd be my probably my way back up.

Nice. Well, you kind of did this anyhow. With what what? 2008? Yeah, exactly. Second question, what's the biggest business mistake you've ever made? several

Businesses they gave me ever made was when I dove into whey got way over my head, highly leveraged all in on one deal, fully recourse and predevelopment. My very first deal, and I did not, I did not pay it. I got very, I guess, very excited by really high returns. And I did not pause I maybe I've justified exam time too. So I was kind of relying on just like the track record of a single developer, but I didn't look I didn't zoom out far enough to look at here's the market cycles, right? And wireless survive a cycle. And I zoomed out just fine after the last like foreign deals, and saw how well they had done and so yeah, mad boomers mistake was investing for shorter term gains and not looking at the longer term vision.

Sure. Got it. Yeah. And that's, that'll be the one that comes back and bites you, you know, you're trying to make that trying to make your millions off the first deal and it's like, okay, that's not going to work. It's the people that are more consistent over time are the ones that make the money. Yeah, what's a good book that you'd recommend for our audience?

So one of the family offices that invest with me is a dear friend, his name is Trey Taylor. He wrote a CEO does these three things and tell you I love that book. fact that run every morning, I listen to podcasts, Ted Talks and audiobooks. And I'm always engaging in personal improvement on those lines. Yeah. And I listen to one and a half percent, one and a half times, but actually slowed it down to 1.25. And then I slowed it down to one. And when I talked to Trey, I said, that's the best compliment I can give you. It is if really, I'm passionate about getting about your organization, and you're a CEO or entrepreneur, and you want to learn how to foster and grow that and foster the right kind of community within your company. I co does these three things you should read at least three times. I love

Absolutely. And listen to it at at single speed. I'd say you I blast it out, you know, one and a half times on most books, and there's been a few that I have to come back and say, Okay, let's do it at one because I really need to absorb this information or it's worthwhile. So awesome. Awesome. What is a tool that you use in your business that you might recommend?

Right now, I mean, I just did a whole so I will do with passive investing mastery.com. We do these educational webinars and we'll do panels with, Okay, we just did one on on laundry, mad self storage, carwashes multifamily oil and gas, were just kind of duking it out and talked about these all assets. I just did one on a I just me. And all I did was talk about practical tools to adventure your business to factual AI tools to advance your business. And I'm constantly using chat up at Google Bard and a slew of other AI tools, because it is just extraordinary. The amount of ways that it has made us more efficient as an organization, and this is a horror presentation just on that guy. I got a lot of really good feedback.

Have you gotten onto the Monica train yet? No, I haven't. That is the coolest thing since sliced bread. So it it takes Monica used to I think it's monica.com or something like that. You can go on there. And what that one does is it aggregates chat GPT, Microsoft Bard, or Google Bard, and I think two or three others. So it's one of these things where it's like it conglomerate's all your answers into one.

I was away I was aI API tools, yeah, to do that. So I can actually select how long I want the answers to be with the temperature, the level of productivity, and I can throttle back the expense that I want to emit. I can get all I can select which. And I'm tourism, which versions of the data I chose love it. Yeah. So we're, I'm doing some things, I'll take a look at Monica. But there's a lot of really cool stuff out there along those lines.

And I'm seeing, I think I just saw zoom this morning, added an AI tool into it. So you know, I used to have my annoying AI tool that would pop into these things. Well, now it just automatically is in in the Zoom tool. So it's it just I think AI is the world of the future. And you know, I don't think people need to worry that we're going to be in the terminator or something like that. So I agree. I think it's a productivity enhancer for most of us. Okay, last question. What is your definition of freedom

Was so the ability for us to live, where we would like to live, I think, and to be able to choose what we get to do when we wake up. Right? Where we live during COVID My wife came out one day was like, Hey, let's move to Hawaii. So I had us on a plane two and a half weeks later, you know, and, and so by it was just that ability to just pick up in and move and my wife, she does feature length animated film producing, but she doesn't have to she does it because she loves it. Yeah. And I love like that. And she

can do it from anywhere in the world, wherever you decide to be. So, right. Right. That's fantastic. So, Patrick, if somebody wants to learn more about what you guys do, learn about some of your educational resources, where's the best place to go?

So I got Passiveinvestingmastery.com passiveinvestingmastery.com And you can see information about our acquisitions fund, our income fund, which is the asset backed that you can also register for our educational series alternative investments, and we're, we're trying to do there and you can set everything up with me. I'd be happy to talk to anybody. And if you do set up a meeting with me we ship out a copy of our my Amazon Best Seller for free. I it's got a lot of great content. I did a chapter along with Phil Collins, the lead guitarist at Def Leppard and NFL All NBA players, its persistence pivots and Game Changers turning challenges and opportunities. Such a fun book to write, and it inspires a lot of people. So we I just, I just shipped out free copies and I signed. But yes, jumping over there, at the very least jump into our educational series started getting more aware of places you can invest outside of the stock market, you'll hear from all kinds of people doing all kinds of stuff, we have recordings from some of the past ones. And we have multifamily stuff on our invest on Main Streets or as our sister company website as well. So you'll see a lot of stuff and articles I've written on Forbes and ways you can begin to kind of chip away at increasing your financial awareness of the financial IQ and alternatives to that wild ride of that stock market. Oh,

Yeah. And the the wild ride where you don't have any driving control in that. That's exactly. Well, Patrick, thank you so much for being on today. It was really a pleasure and love where you're doing by Yeah, once again, another alternative for our audience that qualifies for this. But I think just learning about some of these other passive income alternatives and using alternatives in your portfolio. So thanks a lot for being on. I appreciate you and now appreciate you being up early for this today.

Thanks so much, Jeff. All right.

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