The Non-Salesy Sales Strategy You Need Now

Your ideal client, is on checklist. They're a real person. And they have real needs and real values and what they need to be doing. And you need to understand where your values and their values overlap, so that you can talk to them as a whole person, not just a person with an injury.

This is the Entrepreneur School Podcast where we believe you can run a thriving business and still make your family a priority. This show is all about supporting you the emerging or early stage Entrepreneur on your journey from solopreneur. To CEO while wearing all of the other hats in your life. My name is Kelly Sinclair and I'm a brand and marketing strategist who started a business with two kids under 3am, a corporate PR girl turned entrepreneur after I learned the hard way that life is too short to waste doing things that burn you out. On this show, you'll hear inspiring stories from other business owners on their journey, and learn strategies to help you grow a profitable business, while making it all fit into the life that you want. Welcome to Entrepreneur School.

Hey, Allisyn, I'm so excited to have you on entrepreneur school today. We met in real life a few times, which is amazing. I love when I can bring on guests who are like from the local area. So you are Calgary, you are a coach who works with with wellness specific businesses. Tell us a little bit about what you do and what we're here to talk about today.

Yeah, so I'm so excited to be here, Kelly. And I am a business coach and consultant for wellness and personal service entrepreneurs. And I started doing this because I am typically the ideal client for books. So my people, and I got started with it. Because I needed practitioners, I have chronic illness, I had Lyme disease. And with that I struggled for 10 years trying to get a diagnosis, getting through and finding it really frustrating on the client end to find the right person. But before even that, I'm Kinesiologist and I was a national track and field athlete. So I've been in and around the wellness industry since I was six years old. But professionally been doing what I do now for 15 years in one capacity or another.

That's such an interesting journey into what you're doing, actually, because it's really challenging to wear both of those hats to understand like, what the client is really looking for. And this plays in so much into marketing into sales into brand, clarity and all of it. So when you're actually able to say like, this is what we need. And as somebody who's searched by and low for different practitioners to support me, I just want to know that you have this kind of experience that you like want that you may work in this particular area, something that's going to make me feel confident, right, and this is for everybody, we need to understand like what our client's needs, so that we can help instill confidence in them, so that they ultimately feel comfortable to purchase from us and that they can trust as in leading them through the journey that we're going to take them on.

Exactly. And a lot of my clients actually paid me a translator. Yeah. Whether that's from traditional business methods, or traditional wisdom in the business industry, where for wellness entrepreneurs, I've told you this before Kelly, but we're the most over pitch an underserved market, in my opinion for the business community, because we need more clients, we need to get out there, we need to do all these things. But everybody in this space is a very heart centered person. Yeah, and or at least if you're in it for the right reasons, you're a heart centered person. And you have a lot of people have hard times with like traditional sales methods, or traditional business with a wisdom because it doesn't align with what we do. And having somebody like me come in and be like, I actually really understand where these traditional methods are coming from. And I understand how to make it work. But it's more important to understand what your values are in your company, understand what your client journey is going to look like what your client values are going to do, because then we can use those traditional methods and adapt them to actually work for you and all of a sudden your sales actually make sense and you don't feel salesy, which is like everyone's biggest fear is feeling salesy, and you have to sell to be able to serve. Yeah, that's what I help clients with a lot.

Yeah, let's talk about that and unpack Add a little bit more because I love what you're sort of alluding to here is that one, there's a lot of different methods for how you can go about marketing yourself and the sales actual strategies and processes even

a new router overwhelming for people.

Yes. And you can go, Okay, well, somebody told me that I should do this. And then you can try it and it can feel so sticky and not flowy. And all of the things that you don't like, which just reinforces that message of sales suck, sales, and then feeling like you suck at it, and they get so self perpetuating loop playing in your head.

Oh, yeah, I remember the first time somebody told me that I was a salesperson. And I told them to never call me that. And it was it was funny, because I was making I was making a recommendation about something that I was passionate about, it had nothing to do with money or anything, but to make recommendations for selling so right. And and this person, they were like, no ally, you're a salesperson. Know that. I'm not that 80s. You know, use car salesmen do who is like going to pressure you and is in your face and doing all these things to make you buy. And I didn't like that. But I ended up taking a sales position, ironically, like six months later. And learning that, okay, a lot of these traditional methods, like cold calling, for instance, everyone hates cold calling, by the way, that doesn't change. But understanding there's a difference between old Cold calling where you have nothing to offer that person, hey, you're just trying to make money. Versus, hey, I want to see if I can make a connection. And I want to make time to have these connections. And maybe there's something that I can do for this person, maybe there's something that person can do for me also, like better to know than not know, still is a little nerve wracking. But understanding and changing that perspective is really big. And then I started getting into that, like 90% of sales training is done by men and taught by men, for corporate men. And women and people in the women's wellness industry. We buy and sell completely differently than you know, Coca Cola, or like a big corporation or something like that. And it's a different strategy to be able to do where it won't feel gross, right? If you're selling something out of your values or out of alignment with you, it's going to feel gross no matter what.

Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about like the practical application, then like, how do you walk your clients through identifying what those values are, and shifting the mindset so that they can feel really good about making their offers?

Yeah, so I usually start with my clients, asking them, What do you think your values are? And I will always end up getting some generic answer. Oh, it's my family. Oh, it's, you know, I really care about my community and things like that. And like, Okay, those are the big umbrella words. But that's not really what you're that. I want to know, okay, I want to make a legacy. That's one of my biggest values is legacy. So yes, that could be set in family. But I dig deeper with my clients to be like, Well, what does family mean to you? How do you show up for your family? How does that get demonstrated, because your values come from your voice, which are your needs being met. And then it's also coming from a place where you want things. And it will always demand, you always make time for those things, regardless of how much time you have. So if my best friend was to call me right now, I'd say sorry, Kelly, I gotta go. Because that that is a value. I love my friendships. But you're a close friend of mine, it's just like that, that's it, I would die for you. And getting to know your values on a deeper level of why you do the things you do. makes it way easier. And then you start connecting that with who your ideal client is. So your ideal client and Kelly, you've heard me talk about this on one of my talks. Your ideal client is on a checklist. They're a real person. And they have real needs and real values and what they need to be doing. And you need to understand where your values and their values overlap, so that you can talk to them as a whole person, not just a person with an injury or something, somebody with a problem that you're like, oh, I can make money. That's not my journey. That's gross says. When you start aligning your values with your clients values, it makes a huge difference.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm, I feel totally, I support everything that you're saying because as a brand strategist to that is exactly what I also help clients work through is identifying what those are. And like, a lot of people like probably the thing that bothers me the most is when anybody says, well, I could serve anybody. Right and so lensman, stop saying that you're a massage therapist, anybody with a body, okay. But oh, my dad has never been for a massage in 67 years, because he doesn't value spending his time that way, or spending his money that way. And that's like, at the very high level, what the value is that the client needs to have a specific value that they can then see you also support and so you're immediately needing to like, narrow down who that person is at that and having that awareness. So it's challenging for us to come up with the awareness of our own values, and then also to uncover what the values of our clients are. And then the third level of crossing those things over and then creating messaging around that. This is why we both have jobs.

Where I talk about this all the time, where you when you say, I help everyone, you're gonna help No, yeah, and especially in the wellness industry, and personal services, what's going to happen because I've been on this receiving end, when people go, Oh, my God, you're a complicated case, because I'm complicated case, like I have Lyme disease, I have a genetic disorder of it. It sounds like hypermobility times 10. So for for years, I would go to people, and they would go, Oh, well, I, you know, I help hard cases. Okay, well, I'm a hard case. But I wasn't there, right person, right? They would help me for three, four months. And I wouldn't be getting better. I get relief in the moment, which I mean, that's what I was kind of going for. And I was almost to the point where I thought that was just going to be my reality, that I was just gonna get help in the moment, I'm just gonna just feel better. But my therapist would become frustrated with me, because I'm not getting better. I'm not making the strides. Or even worse, they started looking at me as a paycheck. And when that happens, well, now I don't feel like I don't feel valued. I don't want to support you feeling like when I'm feeling like a paycheck, reverses when you narrow down and you're like, Okay, this is who I help. Like, I find that when I finally found my doctor, who was absolutely amazing. I gave a crap about her messaging, because I had known about her for 10 years. But she always talked about the clinical side of line, never about what people suffering from it would be feeling like she never dealt with like the human behind her ideal client. So for me, I'm like, I've known about you for 10 years, I've been sick for 13. And I was like, I couldn't have been getting this dealt with years ago. But on one side, they didn't go they didn't niche down at all. And you have to to be able to help people. And the other one she niched down so much, that she forgot that there's a person attached. So it's that level where it's like, okay, where's that happy medium of it? You're totally right. This is why we were here. It's okay, how can I translate this so that I'm attracting the people that value what I do? And that I can help people because trust me, like, all of us in that really value wellness, all of our friends value? Well, it's all around us. So we refer, and there's a great way and a great way to do that. And then Sam's doesn't feel gross, because you're not trying to put on shoes that are too small for you.

Well, I just love that you unpack this example of yourself in the client chin. And what really happened because somebody hadn't gotten in touch with their values and create a clear enough messaging is that you could have had more relief, a decade earlier in your life. And this is like, we hate to let you go to second. Like, it's hard to feel like oh, you know, that whole idea of you're robbing people of your service and of the support you can provide when you're sharing when you're not selling when you're not creating that clear messaging, right? Like it is your job to market and promote yourself because of what you do and how it helps people. And as much as that feels like oh, that I don't I don't like that. It's really what you got into it for right and you're saying and we know the people who are listening to this podcast As our heart centered business, exactly, we're in it for that reason, we're not in it for the paycheck. So that's

No and it's hard when you get to that point where it's, we, if you haven't niched down, if you haven't defined your values, it becomes more about money. Because it, that's an easy thing. It's an easy thing to have to think about. We all have to think about it as entrepreneurs. But for me, yeah, it's like, Okay, I've thought about relief, a decade before. But what was scarier is I did the numbers. And I had spent over $100,000, I had seen 50, like traditional Western medicine, doctors and specialists, and over 150 practitioners in five years. And it's just like, it just insane to me, where I'm like, That's before I stopped counting.

Right? Because you are asking the lady looking for help you are, you are a buyer. Like they're just to prove it that there are buyers out there. It's not like, oh, we have to convince people that they need to get a massage, because it's good for them. It's people, there's people who want it for a particular reason, because they're suffering because they're in pain, because they value their wellness, all of these things. So let's stop trying to talk to the people we feel like we need to convince even need our services in the first place to

Who exactly and I talked about with my own niche where I talked about wellness entrepreneurs, some of my best clients are accountants, and people were terrified people will Oh, well, that was our wellness, like, yeah, it is. Because if somebody is in it for the right reasons, with a cure about oh, like, I want you to be financially well, so that you can live a good life, and you can do all of these things. To me, that's my value of wellness. So people can demonstrate their values completely differently. But understanding what those values practically look like, how does somebody show up? It makes it a lot easier to then go, oh, that's actually my ideal client, you can identify that really quickly. i But what's even better is you can actually identify who's not your ideal client just as quick if not quicker. Yeah, we're like, nationally, that person is not for me. And that's okay. Because there's more than enough business out there for everybody. But you're totally right, you have to get out there and talk about who you are, and what you do, and why you do what you do and all of that. So that people understand that this is even an option. Because if you don't, you can't be successful. And the world's best kept secret as well. Those were one of my friends always says, and it's beautiful, because it's completely true. And I think a lot of heart centered, entrepreneurs have a hard time being seen or feeling as if they're taking something from somebody. But when you start knowing your values and understanding your clients values, and understanding how your services help them, well, now it doesn't feel like it's taking anything because you're serving them, you're helping them. And just like you would recommend your favorite movie or your favorite TV show or some retriever book, that's my favorite one is to somebody that's really going to benefit are really going to love it. Sales becomes that easy. Because it's just going to be second nature.

Oh, that's so beautiful. And it's true, right? Like believing in the value of what you have to offer is kind of a core foundation of all of this. And then of course, we were all going to struggle with that along the way too. Because I was talking to somebody about this the other day is like as soon as you learn something, it feels like it's common sense to you. Right? So now you're devaluing how much that could help somebody else? Because that's so obvious, you know that you would have this sale strategy or understand how to tie the values to the messaging like, that is a hard thing to do.

It is and it's funny, because you're totally right. We tend to completely undervalue what comes either naturally to us, or, you know, what I call gifts. A lot of people when they have a gift for something, they have a hard time selling that thing because they go Oh, but you know, like it just comes natural rate. If you're coming to Nashville new, that means you get to do it for longer, it means you're less likely to burn out it means that you can you have a higher chance of being successful, fabulous. It does not mean that you give away your services for free. It doesn't mean that you devalue yourself or compare yourself to others. What it does mean is that you get to when you show up authentically and within your values and in alignment And you make your business around that. It makes it so much easier to actually be sustainably successful. Because there's a lot of flash in the pan people. But to be sustainably successful, that is amazing.

I think there's this narrative that we've all been taught from previous generations that we need to let go of, which is that success has to be hard. And that work has to be hard. And then almost, we're doing something that if it feels easy, that that doesn't count, then finally ourselves that story that, oh, this book, but how amazing is it that if this feels easy to you, when it comes naturally to you, and you love doing it, that you get to do that, and you get to get paid for it? Like, let's do more of those, I want everyone to have a job like that.

So yeah, it's so much more fun, where you get to do that. And it's, like I said, it's more sustainable as well, right within for massage, for instance, the average life career of a massage therapist is around five years, which is sad to me. And a lot of that has to do with well, schooling and not being taught how to create a business and how to actually be out there and not burnout. But it also has to do with just people that don't understand how valuable they can be. And going, Oh, well, I didn't, I'm not successful, so I'm not going to do it. And so one of the things of when, when you're able to actually continue your career, and when it comes naturally to you, you get to create this mindset where, okay, maybe I wasn't successful in my first year. Or maybe I'm still trying to build or I'm trying to get to this next step. It doesn't feel like an end all be all. Because it's just like, This is what I was meant to be doing. Like through me, I have always been a coach, like in every position I've ever been it ended up in a leadership position, ended up in a coaching position. And it's because my I have a very high value on coaching and mentorship. And those things, you can't take that out of me, just like wait, it's meant for you, you can't take out, like I couldn't say, okay, Kelly, you're no longer gonna do anything to do with branding or messaging, or helping entrepreneurs, you would look at me like I'm crazy. These are like, Well, that takes away a lot of who I am just naturally. And there's so many different models of success and different things of what strategies you can get one size is not going to fit and understanding your values and understanding what that looks like for your clients. And understanding what success looks like to you, which is one of the first things that I am actually doing with my clients is what does it actually look like because my version of success is not going to be the same as yours. And the society picture of success is not the same rate. It's Nobody, Nobody that I know, personally wants the you know, hundreds of cars and the flashy stuff and having to be out every night and all that nobody I know actually really wants that. Right? Right. But that's what sold as what successful is in that previous generations, because you Okay, owning a home and doing all of these things were Merkers. But it was also a different time. And we have to as heart centered entrepreneurs understand that there is a difference. And defining it for ourselves may say you can actually sustain your business and feel confident your business for a lot longer.

Yeah, you're so right. Having a really clear vision of what your version of success looks like, alongside understanding what it is the connection point like, what are the what's the why behind what you're doing, because we're gonna go through all of these seasons, where things feel challenging, and what do we lean back on? Right? We have to lean on our own connection, our own belief and like polarity that we are doing something that's strongly aligned for who we are, which as you've defined is about understanding what your values are. I have this framework I call the momentum framework and the first step of it is to feel connected, like whenever you're not able to get yourself to take an action and do something because you're like, I don't know if that's the right thing and you're second guessing yourself is go back to why. Why are you doing this? How do you remind yourself that this is what you're here to do? Like remember an amazing client that you helped, or something that was that felt like a really great piece of progress for you that you achieved, that you can go tap into, take that energy and move forward and then take the action that you need to take in order to create that momentum and see those results coming.

I love that. And one of the things that I implement for myself because I get impostor syndrome quite easily. Yeah, as I've been one of the younger people in the room for a lot of robot years now, I'm like, the average age, which is nice. But for a lot of years, I was like, Wait, like, I, how am I supposed to be going speaking in front of all of these people, like what the heck, but I started, Hey, who the heck taught me this. But I started taking screenshots of anytime a client would say, Oh, my God, Ally, like you just made my whole day better. And one of my clients sent me this huge note about I have wanted to write an email and have this messaging go out. Because I don't just, I'm not just a consultant where I'm like, okay, here, go have fun. And I like anything, you do it, I actually do it with you. So that way, you have that support and that buddy system to succeed. But with this one client, just like Alia, this has been on my heart for years, and I've never been able to articulate it, you were able to piece it out of me put it into something that my clients understood. And we're able to then put it out there. I've gotten 10 calls, but 10 sales calls today about this. And it was the most calls she had ever bought. And this is why I do what I do. Because we finally found where your values were matched to clients and how that messaging can come through. She's having the best month that she's ever had, because she had that funnel, which was great. But she's like, how they didn't feel like sales. All these people were, she had one person go, here's my credit card. Where do I put it? But yeah, I think it's great. You're just like, okay, cool. I love that. Because then it makes it just easier for you to sell. And it doesn't feel gross to do.

Yeah. So I think what I'm kind of hearing, you're saying, I don't know, if you like you said you screenshot anytime you get like, feedback or something. So do you have like a file or something that you go to like, whenever you're feeling like second guessing yourself? The imposter syndrome is coming up?

Yeah, I could do it. And it's funny, because my partner will remind me of it, which is fabulous lingers with me and my business. And usually after I've had a really, really great month, I start getting this impostor syndrome of Oh, my God can't like can this even continue? And like, of course it can continue. But having that file where I can go back and go, this is why this is happening. These are the results that I get my clients. It doesn't happen so much anymore, but especially when I started getting like scaling up, it really did happen. And I was just like, oh, I can feel myself concerted brash, and Oh, I'm scared to talk to this bigger potential client. And it's just like, oh, yeah, I get I get these results. I have these tangibles.

Yeah. And just for anybody who's listening, because like, well, I don't have that yet. It's like that it will come and you would all you need to start like shifting maybe what your definition of results looks like to allow both to stack up. So that you can build that like success file that when sheet that whatever, whatever you want to call it, happy notes on your desktop that you go back to,

Before I had clients while I was working full time. With running a Wellness Center, I used to keep track of anybody who would say something nice to me, like, Oh, you made my day so much easier. Or you always make me smile, whatever. Those weren't clients were also keep track of when I did something hard and it ended up doing coming out. Well, right, right. Those are great things because you start training your subconscious of I'm a winner. I can do this. I can do the hard things and it's going to come out okay. And even if it doesn't, I'm fully confident in my abilities that I will turn it around somehow all I either win or I learn.

Yes, that's such a good point. And so many great that thank you for the bonus tip on mindset and impostor syndrome because we all struggle with that as we move through trying to grow our business trying to figure out how to create the right messaging and it's constantly you know, one thing I like to remind myself is This is all an experiment. And when you can just look at it like you're, you're trying new things, and you're learning and you're trying to figure out how it's going to work. That's it. It's all just data.

Yep. Exactly. When you look at data, it makes it so much easier. Because we also again, we diminish the good things that we do, right? Just the way where it's when we learn something that we will Oh, with that common sense, we do the same thing when it comes to our wins. And we exaggerate our losses. Fast. So where we're winning if we if we show up for work on time, every day, if we get our kids out of bed and happy and you know, wearing the right shoes, I don't know. Those are all wins.

Yeah, great. Everyone's the lunch today. Yeah.

Exactly. It's just like, okay, cool. Like, you know, the kids who got their lunch, that's a when I made the bed this morning. That's a weird, like, it's the small tiny things that if we didn't do it, we would extract it, we would extrapolate that into our head of, I'm a failure. I'm so lazy. I'm bla bla bla. But we don't do that with our wins. So I kind of challenge everybody listening to try to exaggerate your your little wins in your head. I was like, I also I made the bed and made my coffee. And I look put together today, I am on fire. I didn't You didn't say that you do every morning. But now we feel different about it.

And if you need a cheering squad, please post these on social media and tag Alison and myself and we will we know you out we will cheer you on. Because I think we really do need to create a space for celebrating more of these small victories and giving more credit to those for sure. Allison, this has been a wonderful conversation, we have covered so much depth and space around building a business, aligning your values, making sales feel good. I would love for you to share ways for people to stay in touch with you connected, everything will be below in the show notes. And so that if people want to reach out, which I always encourage that they do they have a way to do that.

Yeah, well, there's a couple of ways to reach out. So the easiest one is via Instagram, my Instagram is Eva wellness business. And then I'm also going to be providing all your listeners a free download for my eBook serving, not selling. And it actually walks you through values and how to start aligning those and even thinking about what your values and your ideal clients values are sort of aligning those. So that's going to be available for you guys for download as well.

Excellent. Make sure that you grab that because it's an important exercise to go through no matter what stage you're at in your business because just reminding yourself of that connection and that awareness is so important. Allison, thank you so much for your time today.

You're very welcome, Kelly. It was great to be here.

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