Connecting Head, Heart & Holidays With Leah Gartner

Welcome back to the doctor body mind soul podcast. My name is Dr. Jude. And this is a podcast which explores how we can integrate modern medicine and alternative therapies to help you get the holistic health care that you deserve. I will be speaking to healers and seekers, researchers and authors who will share their experiences and the evidence to help guide us all to Holistic Health. Let's do this. I met Leah at the relationship school in Colorado four years ago, when we both joined a program to learn about the deep psychology of intimate relationships. And Leah now spends most of her working life helping individuals and couples be empowered and connected in their relationships. So Leah, welcome to the Dr. body mind soul podcast. Thanks, Jude. So it's really important that we we learn how to do relationships well, and this is I guess, exactly where you come in. And I would love to sort of help our listeners take away some tools or just some some actionable steps that they can make. Because at the moment, we're in December, this episode is going to come out just as we're approaching the holiday periods. And speaking from my personal experience, the holiday periods can be really quite triggering, I would love to be able to offer some tips or suggestions that can help our listeners navigate this time, a little bit better.

I love that,

I kind of want to take this opportunity to lead us into interpersonal neurobiology, where this subject really acknowledges our reactions to stress, particularly in our most intimate relationships, we often are intrinsically wired within us from our childhoods or previous experiences and become automatic.

There's lots that's been written about this by, you know, neuro biology experts and psychiatrists, I especially love Dan Siegel's work on this material, you know, to really street level, what I see happening is even before I feel a feeling something happens, maybe your your face changes, or your tone of voice has shifted, or you've moved toward me or away from me, or something like that, especially in primary partnership or close family. Right. We'll keep it in that context. This is super normal. Our brains are wired for survival. And we have a negativity bias keeps us safe. Right?

Yeah. And that's the negativity bias just for those who aren't familiar with that.

Yeah, so really simply, it's what keeps us alive, right? Looking for danger. I heard it explained once that there's you and I, and we're, we're walking along, and we see the entrance to a cave. And one of us says, I'll just say you, this looks really great. Let's go in there. And then I have got the wiring that's like, no, there, there may be something in there, that's not safe, that's dangerous. I'm going back to camp, I run back to camp, you go in the cave. Well, evolution wise, like, my wiring is the one that's existed longer, right, because I've stayed alive. Because I've been a little anxious about things that might be scary and dangerous. So I loved that analogy for kind of explaining the reason why our brains are wired that way, we survived this long, and it's quite vulnerable to be a human on this planet. So it makes sense that we've adapted by looking for danger. That's not anything I would ever want to get rid of. And, you know, my partner isn't a threat to my very existence. But that part of my brain, that old part, the animal part, can feel that threat and danger and respond in a way that we get this detail of our lives sorted out this instant. And I'm running off to camp.

Right. And we're so sensitive, as you said, it's like, we're so sensitive to those micro expressions to the change of the tone of voice, and we're really on high alert to, to those triggers. That may be signaling danger.

Yeah. And and that's, you know, a nod to the fact that abusive relationships exist. And if that's the case, get out, I'm not speaking to that. When I say oh, my partner isn't a threat to me. He actually isn't, and I know that in some cases, you know, that does exist. So if that's the case, get out. So so it's really normal to feel these feelings. And I think the move is getting back into what Dan Siegel and others refer to as the window of tolerance, right. So if you think of a scale of one to 10 And one being very relaxed 10 Being I'm jumping out of my skin, I want to stay between a one and a five, I start to get to five, and my my executive functioning and my brain goes offline, I get into my animal brain, I'm all about the feelings, the emotions, I'm in fight or flight, I'm responding in this way that right,

and so just want to slow this down, right? Just this piece, because it's really like, kind of brings together the mind body connection. So well, then actually, when we're in one to five, we don't have adrenaline coursing through our brains, we can use our frontal cortex, we can use our executive function, or we can process more information.

And those are all that relational parts of our brain, those are the parts of our brain that keep us in relationship, keep us curious, keep us engaged, keep us in the room, just for the listener, we need that part of our brain connected to everything else, to be making good decisions that keep us connected with other people.

And then we go up into the six to 10 zone. And we are stressed now my executive function is switched off. I'm in survival mode.

Yeah, yeah. And that's where we really lose our ability to stay connected. And I would say not just between two people, but even I experienced that lose connection to myself, right? So I get up over five and I'm on my own while I'm more likely to pick up my phone and go to Facebook, because I want to feel better. I just want to feel better. Maybe I'll eat something, maybe, you know, do all sorts of behaviors, humans will do a myriad of things to get out of that really uncomfortable state, like that five to 10. State. It's, it can be very uncomfortable. And it's quick, it's so quick.

It's so quick. And when we're in that really stressful situation, what or how does your work? Use this concept of interpersonal neurobiology? And what's happening with our Mind Body Soul? How does that inform what you do? And how you help people through that?

Yeah, great question. It's really slowing down. That's the first thing. It's slowing down. But noticing even what's going on, right? So I might say, Okay, let's, something's coming up. Describe what you're feeling? What, what story do you have about that? Like, I start to bring the cognitive back online, they name the feeling I'm scared or I don't know. And then we just keep slowing down. And exploring that moment. Not only what they're feeling physically, but then bringing some of that cognitive part of the brain back online with things like naming the feeling or give me just a sentence or two about what what this means that in that reengage is executive functioning. And it's, it's often a way to just come back down out of this completely triggered state. So that's a huge move for people. And in coaching sessions, right? It's building up the experience and the here and now of tolerating what you're feeling, actually, being able to feel this flood of emotion. This intense story comes up, feels really yucky in my body, I don't like it. And then also like, oh, it's not going to kill me. This actually will pass. And so that's often the work with people too, is just being with them. And coaching them through a moment. You know, it's a moment it's a wave. And then people really getting a felt experience of oh, I've been pushing away the sadness or the sphere for so long now I've just let it come. And I survived it. Wow, I can do that. So then it's then it's about building that muscle over time.

Yeah. And also, you know, allowing the feelings to give you the information that your body is trying to relate to you that you feel sad, you feel hurt. Yeah, you feel scared such important information that you often do want to push away ignore, you know, and in doing so, really ignoring your body signal that whatever is happening right now is not okay by you.

Think about the Harvard study, right? But one of the longer is running studies on adult development. And the bottom line is people live longer or healthier, happier based on the connection in their relationships. I mean, from a from a health standpoint, investing in our connections with other people, is the best thing we can do for our health long term. So we talked a bit about the unconscious things that that happen and how we can bring awareness to our experience. But there's, there's also like, I like to call them sort of hard skills. So personal responsibility is a huge umbrella that I would love to invite the listener into. And in the context of family holidays, or getaways with family, or whatever is happening, and you're choosing to be in that situation. Right? Like, I just want to invite you to remember, you have choice, you do have choice here, and you have a choice or on how you show up. Do you want to do it the same way? You've always done it? Okay, that's fine. Or do you want to do something differently? Or I'm

just imagining people may say, Yeah, but like, you know, I have to show up to my family. Like, you know, everyone always goes to the family, and they don't feel like they have a choice. Hmm,

I would challenge that. Yeah, I would say, yeah, it might be hard. And that makes sense. And it's really, which one is more uncomfortable going or not going, it sounds like not going is the greater discomfort. So just to own the fact that you're going because it's easier, I'm going to my families for the holiday. Because it's easier than dealing with the repercussions of not going okay, I still have a choice, I'm still choosing that. So now, I think another great move for people is to set their expectations realistically. So get out of some fantasy that your your family is going to be any different than they've ever been. And try to love them as they are stuck wishing they would care about your latest project or be living in your values. And to really own that they are who they are. And stop wishing they were somebody else. Just just get get those expectations off the table, get out of fantasy, get into reality.

And that can be I mean, first of all, that is such a freeing move, because we spend so much energy fighting against what people are not. And they're not perhaps what you want or wish. And that is hard. It's it's hard. And I have been very guilty of that.

Your family, if they're like mine, they're going to trigger you. So one thing I love is a trigger list. You know, you can have interactions with your family, or I guess I'll just keep it really personal. I spent a week writing down everything that bothered me about my immediate family that I live with. So to to pretend that I wasn't judging them or expecting them to be different or making up stories about them is that's a fantasy. So instead, I just started this daily practice for a week just to try it. Like everything that pissed me off about everyone. And it's, it's great to have a place for that. Maybe it's a journal. Think about this family holiday context, take a journal, make a list. You don't have to get into it with your family, choose your battles, set realistic expectations. Keep a trigger list. And that's what you're going to take back to wherever you live or when they go away.

And this trigger list idea. I love that because it's also just taking ownership over the fact that these triggers are what trigger you. It's that they're not actually you know, they're not wrong, bad. You know, people is just that they piss you off.

In my values. They're not doing life my way.

They're not a clone of me like, and yeah, and that can be really challenging.

Yeah, imagine the move though. I love this firm move because it's being with what is right. So it's acknowledging the reality, it's taking some ownership. These are my triggers. And it's also your choice later, if you want to go work on that or not, it's but to pretend that it's not happening. That's where like I find myself starting to check out, go into unconscious behaviors in response to these triggers. You know, instead maybe just set an intention. That every day at the end of the day, you'll take a break from the family and go right down to everything that's really getting under your skin.

Yeah. And also, I just want to share an exercise that I did with my family one, one of the holidays. And that was like we decided to, or I decided that we all sat and just took 20 minutes at the beginning of the holiday, just to outline and make it clear what our expectations of this time together were. When then something explodes, or, you know, there's an argument about something perhaps quite trivial. It was it allowed me to come back to my intention of like, you know, what was important to me right now is that I have a conversation with everyone. And if I have a conversation with everyone, that's a win,

you know, and what I hear in there, dude is you're setting context for the time, setting clear expectations, and then choosing to let some things go to focus back on your intention for the listener that doesn't have a family that's open to that, I think the pieces that we can glean from your experience are setting context with yourself, or your partner about what you want, as an individual. And as a couple for this holiday, setting clear expectations, it could be around setting boundaries, avoiding certain conversations, spend some time before the gathering, to get really clear with yourself. And a tool I love for that is a list of yeses and noes. So again, like with your journal on the other page, not the trigger list. Before you go consider making a list of things that you're a yes to, and things that you are a no to. And this isn't something you have to share with anyone, unless it's you and your partner are working together. But doing that you really create an agreement with yourself, if you can't create the agreements with your family, and they're not available, you can create agreements with yourself around what you will tolerate what you won't tolerate. Like you don't have to sit through a conversation around heated politics, you actually are capable of saying, timeout, I'm gonna take a break, or I don't want to be doing this right now let's change the subject or who wants to talk about politics after dinner? I mean, there's, there's a lot of strategies to take care of yourself in those situations. And I think a little bit of work ahead of time, can go a long way.

Again, just like it goes back under the umbrella of taking radical responsibility here. Do I want things to remain as they are? And feel perhaps as you always have? I want to show up and do something differently.

Yeah. And I really, I really think loving your family and your people, just as they are, can can be a move, like just dropping expectations for people to get you see you live like you do. That can be it's a move that isn't offensive to other people. It doesn't have to create, like, this stake in the ground, kind of aggressive, I'm doing it differently. Right? I just show up differently with my people. When I can just say, right, that's their life. I don't, I don't have to change them, fix them. I can still be me and they can still be them. And I don't have to be right. And then it can shift the dynamics silently. No one even needs to know.

Yeah, yeah, that's so true. Because we can get our needs met from other people in our lives. Our family doesn't have that same sort of influence on our identity on our very identity as it once did, you know, but that's this is part of the maturing process, which sort of allows us to step into ourselves and for us not to become so wrapped up into whether our family is the same

yeah defines us you're really talking about differentiation there and the process of growing up and I believe that's a lifelong process. It doesn't stop at 18 Right now I'm an adult and you know, for me it's it's a journey to keep turning into myself. And if you're a partner if you if you're away for the holidays with a partner. You can do some of this work with your partner ahead of time. So you go in as a team, so creating, like from Stantec Ken's work a couple of bubble making agreements around what are your yeses and noes as a couple So how can your partner have your back? How can you have their back, and that's individual to each couple, like I know, for us, I don't, I don't want Peter to like team up with my parents against me. I'm very sensitive to that. So we have an agreement, even if he wants to, even if you'd really wouldn't be on their side, we've agreed like that he'll, we can talk about it privately. But in the moment, he's gonna stay silent, because I can feel really teamed up on or, you know, so it's quite individual to the family and the couple. But creating those agreements ahead of time is huge. It's agreements are one, right. And then another one is, knowing what calms your partner down, right. So I know, for Peter to keep him calm in family situations with his family. If I'm touching him, he just feels my presence, I'm less triggered than he is always in that situation. So I'm helping him regulate his nervous system just by maybe I have a hand on him or I reach touch is really soothing to him from me. So that's just an agreement we have. We have certain family members where we stick together, we don't let the other one get pulled off and isolated with a family member. So there's all kinds of agreements you can make with your partner, depending on your situation,

it feels so supportive to know that those agreements are in place. Know what triggers and what relaxes the other and rely on their teams, even if you don't really agree, in the moment. Yeah, discuss that privately. That just feels so sort of like, I'm wanting to make that agreement for my in my future relationship.

With kids, right, we don't want to disagree. We choose not to disagree with each other in front of the kids. But we might, I mean, not that we don't to conflict. But if one of us is taking the lead or something. Really the other one says like, Okay, I'm here. I've got your back. That's another agreement. But

yeah, I have agreements in. Yeah. And that really has taken our I imagine that that does take an effort and commitment in advance.

And it also takes like, some messy times, and real shit to go down to say like, oh, oh, I don't want to do that that way again.

Yeah, exactly.

So it's a learning curve, right? Like, I have to feel I have to feel the discomfort with my family and my partner joining in and be willing to take responsibility and brave enough to ask my partner for what I need, and doing the work to say, Okay, next time. Can we do it this way? So it's, I don't mean to tie it up in a bow but, but it's worth exploring. If you're listening to this podcast, and you're heading off with your partner for the holidays, what's, what are your three agreements, so you can make that your yes and no to as couples.

And as you say, sometimes it takes it will often it will take an overstep of a boundary and feeling of that discomfort for you to know where that boundary is.

And it's like, keep in mind, it's just engaging a little more skillfully, every day. That's it. There's no fix here. There's nothing to fix. It's just how do I learn from what happened? And maybe do it a little more skillfully? That's it.

Yeah, I love that. I just also just want to touch on those perhaps, who are in a different situation over the holiday period, and actually may be alone during this time.

Yeah, we're really facing an epidemic of loneliness with this pandemic. I think the move there is connect to yourself, your longing, your your feelings, like acknowledgement, that that's happening is the key, right? Because I can certainly turn to all kinds of behaviors to avoid feeling the loneliness, and they're often not connecting behaviors. So I'd say don't turn to Facebook, don't turn to the drink, don't turn to checking out. Those can be ways to feel better, but my challenge would be feel the feeling of loneliness. And then from that place, decide, you know, can you reach out and get on a call with a friend can you schedule a Zoom meeting? Like, can you get connected and community online somehow if you're isolated or locked down, like, like, what can you do? I think the move is to feel the feeling and and take responsibility for what you want to do. it. Does that make sense?

It really does make sense that kind of really echoes back to your emotions telling you something, though, like, if you're feeling alone, paying attention to that emotion, and acknowledging that that's actually how you feel, then can inform your next move. Yep. There's there's perhaps shame that really sort of stops us from even wanting to admit to even to ourselves that we feel lonely.

Yeah, yeah, I feel dude, like, meditation practice is such a foundation of self care. Right, with all the stuff we've been talking about whether we're talking about being triggered by our families, or in partnership, or just being alone. I feel like a meditation practice that gets us in our present experience and learning practicing that we're like, oh, we can, I can feel this feeling. And I'm going to be okay, that just feels, if I could get everyone to do anything, even myself. I'm not perfect over here. But there's so much research around all the good things meditation does. And the way that I think it shows up practically, is it's that ability to tolerate discomfort. And from that place of awareness, creating more agility and choice. Yeah, so meditation. And then the other one, I was thinking, as you're talking about, the person that's on their own, is really connecting to your values. It's like, what do you care about? What do you even know? What's your mission? So I would invite the listener into that as well. Getting getting clear on your, your compass, but that can be another discussion.

That can be another discussion. And also, actually, as you're talking about that, like, it's also like, you know, there are, there are advantages to on your own, like, there is, you know, we can really only focus on the negative associations that we have around being on our own. And there is a balance point, like, you can watch whatever you want on TV, you can eat whatever you want, and nobody judges you, you can. But you can go and go to bed at half past eight if you want, and nobody's going to, you know,

know. So it benefits the benefit. So we would call that a list of benefits or drawbacks, right. So being alone, and drawbacks to the fantasy of not being alone,

doing that sort of list. It's it's very, it's very enlightening, and can really help you shift to

Yeah, I feel like I want to leave the listener with. Just remember, you have a choice. bring awareness to the present moment, know what your yeses and noes are, and accept the fact your family is going to trigger you. That's not a problem. Write it down. You can do your work later.

And people are looking for some support. In doing it more skillfully. I just want to point you in the direction of Leah's website, Leah, what's your website,

new trails relationship coaching.com.

Rate and also, yeah, it will point you in the direction of the relationship school. So that's relationship school.com. There are a lot of relationship coaches advertised there. And I also want to just let the listener know that two or three times a year, there are a bunch of new relationship coaches that are being trained and when they are being changed, there are really affordable options to have some relationship coaching at a very affordable price.

Absolutely. And it's so helpful to new coaches, to get folks reaching out committing to six sessions. And

I think that the each session session with a new relationship coach is about $25. So for us, that's going to be about 18 pounds, roughly. And I think that's the most affordable relationship coaching that there is, you can get a lot from engaging with that. And if you want more, more experienced coaches, they're advertised there. They all have been trained to engage, or knowledge and understand the role of our nervous system in our responses to our partners and how to calm our bodies, how to settle our minds and how to connect our souls with our partner.

So, amen. So thank you for

this conversation. And it seems like we have a lot more to discuss on future episodes.

Yeah, wishing everyone Happy Holidays and satisfying and nourishing times of family and friends.