From Doctor to Shaman: Trusting Inner Wisdom on the Journey to Holistic Wellness | Ep 155

Imagine getting up every day full of energy is if you were in your 20s. Again, what would that be like? What would that be worth to you? What is your health worth to you? Think about it. Your health isn't everything. But without it, everything else is nothing. And yet too many of us are taking it for granted until something goes wrong. No one wakes up hoping to be diagnosed with the disease or chronic illness. And yet, we've never been taught how to be proactive in our health through our school system, or public health. As a registered health coach and integrative health practitioner, I believe it is time this information is made available to everyone. Combining new knowledge around your health and the ability to do my functional medicine lab tests in the comfort of your own home will allow you to optimize your health for today and all your tomorrow's don't wait for your wake up call welcome back to another episode of The don't wait for your wake up call podcast. I am Melissa Deally, your host and I am very excited today to have with me an amazing guest who has become a wonderful friend as well. Jennifer Hasenyager welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, my friend. It's great to be here. And

I want to introduce you and all of your expertise to the audience before we dive into what will be an amazing conversation. Jennifer is a former conventional physician turned coach and energy healer. She embodies a courageous journey towards authenticity and personal growth. Leaving her roles as physician professor and eye surgeon marked a pivotal moment in her life setting her on a path of genuine self discovery. Jennifer's passion for knowledge integration led her from medicine to neuroscience based executive coaching, to functional medicine, and eventually to shamanic energy healing. She's also been a Health Care Technology Consultant, and author of a memoir chronicling her transformative journey. Her own health challenges led her to explore alternative healing approaches including natural medicine and energy healing. Jennifer possesses a powerful intuitive side. She's a trained shamanic healer and divine feminine priestess who believes that many chronic problems of the body, mind and spirit are learning opportunities for our own growth that can often be better addressed at the energetic level. Jennifer's academic background is impressive with degrees from Cornell University, the University of Chicago and ophthalmology training at UCSF. She's an MBA holder, registered corporate coach and certified in functional medicine. Her story from medicine to coaching and holistic practices serves as an inspiring example of authenticity and self discovery, making her an invaluable healing partner and teacher. And the exact reason why I wanted to bring her on the podcast to inspire all of my listeners. And so Jennifer, that is a long introduction, sure. Shares like highlights of all that you have done in your life. And what I would love for you to do is to go back and share a little bit more detail as to your health issues, and also your choices around moving along this path of this transformative journey. In other words, how did you get to where you're at today?

Yes, how did I get from there to here? It's a long and winding path. That's for sure. Um, first of all, thank you for that lovely introduction. And I I'm impressed with myself right now sitting here. And you should be

it's always interesting to hear your own bio read by somebody else. And you Oh, yeah, that's me. gratulations to you.

Alright, so let's see, let me settle down and answer the question. Um, so I started my career in a very kind of conventional, straightforward, expected way. I decided to be a doctor. And then I went to college and went to med school and became a doctor. And that was all sort of played out in what I in my mind's eye see as this sort of straight line path that I walked, that's just one foot in front of the other doing all the things that I needed to do and doing them well, but not really looking around or asking questions or paying a lot of attention to other other ways that could have gotten I was very focused on accomplishing what I set out to accomplish. And that is, I don't see that as a bad thing or a mistake in my life. I simply see that as the Just a manifestation of my what's the right word tenacity. And so, um, so I followed the straight line. And I ended up as an eye surgeon and a professor and, and a mother of young children and a leader in my field and with a very quickly kind of upward mobility, upwardly mobile, academic, medical career, everything I thought I wanted. And then one day, or maybe it crept up on me, I realized I am profoundly unhappy with my day to day work with my life in general. And it wasn't that crystal clear for me at the time, but basically, I started to dread going to work, I started to feel exhausted. Now I had little tiny children at the time. So there's all sorts of confounding information. At the time, I would have said that I was having a hard time being both a good doctor and a good mother. And I was stressed out, and I was actually diagnosed with depression at that time, and went on some medication for depression. So that was the first I would say, Matt, physical, physiological manifestation of my, the lack of alignment between what I who I really was and what I was doing with my life, I really believe that depression, yes, it's a mental health diagnosis. But I believe that it is a manifestation of chronic stress or chronic imbalance in the body and some way to talk about it from a functional health or integrative health model for a second.

And so I want to interrupt you there, because I love what you said, too, about your lack of alignment. And I'm wondering if you know, we have a lot of depression in the world today. And I'm sure there's a lot of listeners relating to your story. And that that lack of alignment is manifesting in depression. Yeah, well, and so for those who are struggling with depression, to maybe be asking themselves, where am I out of alignment? You know?

Absolutely. It's, it's it's not the first question that a typical psychiatrist or psychologist or person who's taking care of your depression medications that say it, they're not necessarily going to ask that question that way. And, of course, there's lots of other reasons a person might have depression too. But to me, for me in my life, it was a huge part of it. I also know that I'm genetically predisposed to show my stress and lack of balance in my system. That's one of the ways that I'm genetically predisposed, to show that so it's, there's all these variables. So to come back to my storyline, though, eventually, eventually, I was able to gather the courage to quit practicing medicine. It took me four tries on the fourth try was when I succeeded in quitting, because there was so much pressure on me from people in my life from the people I worked with, from myself, that, how can you quit, you did all this hard work to get here, you're doing so much good in the world, you can't quit. You're so good at this, all of these pressures from all these different directions. Each time I would say something aloud to somebody, I think I might need to do something different in my life, I would get that kind of a reaction. And three times over a few years, I let that reaction put me back on path. Finally, I got enough, got into enough pain and discomfort and misery, and probably grew up enough in my own life journey, if you will, though, I was able to say, No, I can't do this anymore. And I need to need to start practicing medicine, despite the fear of who am I if I'm not this. And so that's what I did. And at that point, I spent a few years I had my kids were maybe in elementary school at that time. And so I spent a few years kind of and I put this into quotes, being a stay at home mom, because I'm not cut out to be a stay at home mom and only a stay at home mom, I I loved having more time with my children. And I did spend a lot more time with my children and that was a good thing. And I need to always be doing and learning and something grateful needs to be going on in my life in order for me to be satisfied. So it only lasted about a year before I went to school to get an MBA i That was my taking a break from life was to go back to school and get an MBA. And what I learned in that is experience that two year experience was that I really didn't want to go work at an insurance company or pharma or some other place, that would be the obvious place for a person with an MD, and an MBA. So I was really lucky because during that same time period, while I was in school for an MBA, I met a man who became a mentor and teacher, for me, still a dear friend of mine to this day, his background is in counseling and therapy. And he had a specialty working with highly intelligent people who had really uneven neurology, typically, you can think of an absent minded professor, or a really bright child who can do algebra but can't tie their shoes when they're 10 years old. And I took an interest in his work, and essentially set out to learn from him. And so over the years, I first I learned from him and then I worked with him in his practice. And that's where I overtime developed my work into this neurologically based executive coaching practice that I had, because I learned a ton about how people's brains manage information, and how they their brains manage language and communication. And I turned that into a very particular approach to working with professional people who were looking to get somewhere different in their life, or just do what they do better, whatever. And I also importantly, during those years, and unlearned, I unlearned how I had been taught to talk to people and relate to people, which was the the physician way, which is basically disconnected, I'm going to ask you questions you're going to answer and I'm going to be very directed in the conversation. That's how it physician is trained to interact. And I had to unlearn all of that, and learn how to connect with people how to actually be present, and, and listen and create a relationship. So that was extremely, extremely important and value valuable for me. And that changed my whole life, my personal life as well. And it was during those sorry, where you're going to ask me something,

I was just gonna say that it's interesting that physicians are actually taught one way to be, and they had to unlearn that and learn a new way of connecting with people.

Yes. And that, I believe, is changing in medical schools. Now. I know it is. However, I went to medical school. And I started in 1990, it was a long time ago. And so we were still definitely being trained in a much more kind of old school way, which was, You're the doctor, that's the patient, you are not to show your emotions, you're a professional and being professional means that you don't show emotions and you it's not that you're mean to anybody, you're just there to get your job done. And getting your job done means keeping your own kind of personality and person out of it. And that that is the opposite of how I do any of anything now. Okay, so back to my timeline. So then, during this time period, where I'm unlearning the physician disconnection, and I'm learning how to connect with people, and myself, for that matter, I begin to realize, this is where the energy and intuition part of my package started to show up, I began to realize how intuitive and sensitive in terms of picking up on other people's emotional states and things like that, that I was natively, I had just been on aware of it. But it answered a lot of questions and mysteries for me about why practicing medicine was extra hard for me, because I was so sensitive to people, and picking up on all kinds of people's pain and fear and whatever, but not realizing that at all. And so some of what made practicing medicine very hard for me and very painful for me, was that sensitivity that I was completely unaware of. So as I began to learn more about my own intuitive nature, my own sensitivity, I got increasingly curious about energy healing, and other ways to apply or use this native insert information channel that I became aware of for myself, and and that's the beginning of the story of and these things all happen kind of at the same time, but that's the beginning of the story of my search for learning how to, to to be an energy healer, as well as all the other things that I already knew how to do that came from my intellect.

Adding to your tools that you have in the ways with people,

I'm adding to my tools as I go along and by By the way, I didn't see this this clearly at the time that I was doing all of this. And a lot of the time, I felt like I was wandering in the wilderness like I, I was, suddenly I had been so focused and goal oriented and accomplished in my life. And suddenly, I felt like I was just wandering. And it felt like a failure. I had people in my life who were disappointed in me who were confused, who thought I was a little bit nutty. And so I had to contend with a lot of these old beliefs and ways that I viewed myself and the ways other people were viewing me, I had to contend with a lot of stuff to get to a place where I realized and where I am now where I can recognize, well, yeah, I was wandering around a little bit, but it was for the purpose of gathering these tools, learning more things, expanding who I really was, and getting more clear about, what is it that I'm up to in this lifetime, basically.

And good for you for choosing to continue moving forward. In your wandering, even when it's sometimes felt like failure. As you were feeling that from the other people in your life, you chose to keep going, I did on your path versus succumbing to the pressure. You don't you've done that a few times earlier. But now once you'd made that decision to change your direction,

you stuck with it? I did, I did it, congratulations

to you. Because that societal pressure can be really heavy. And some people will give into it. Yes. And yet that pressure. And those beliefs of those people is always about what the other person believes, and nothing about you. So you stay true to yourself. So congratulations to that.

Thank you. Yeah, and thank you for that acknowledgement. And it's it's such a crucially important part of how I live my life now and how I teach the clients I work with to live their lives. One of just skip ahead a couple of steps. And then I'll come back to the story. One of the, the key principles of the Divine Feminine priests dissing world that I'm part of, is the idea of sovereignty, sovereignty, meaning self responsibility and self determination, not to the exclusion of others around you, not not in a way that looks like selfishness or self centeredness, but in a way that looks like I know what I need to do, I am the one whose wisdom I get to follow. And I I listened to that wisdom. And I honor that, that wisdom is I'm allowed to come from a place of self responsibility or sovereignty. So what I was learning along the way, before I had that word, or that formal way of looking at it was learning that when I did things in my life that where I was wandering away from what was really aligned for me, where I was accepting other people's decisions about what I needed to be doing rather than my own. But I ignored the quiet whispers from my heart, or the louder whispers that I would get if I continued ignoring. When I wandered away from that, and ignored my own wisdom, my own sovereignty, that's when I blundered into trouble trouble meaning, unhappiness or increasing physical symptoms. And this brings us back to the to the physical stuff again. And what I learned in the big picture was to this navigation system where, when I was staying on a course that was aligned for me, I felt good, and I was in good balance. When I wandered out off the path in one direction or another, which we're all bound to do, because this whole thing is a learning process. The way I would find out about that wandering off the path was the way I would feel either emotionally or physically in some way, or I would have some sort of other, you know, awareness of some sort. But typically, it's how my body feels. And

I think that's a really important point to highlight there. For people to truly understand that our inner wisdom will never guide us astray. And is when we choose to ignore it, that the symptoms come up. And I always like to say that our symptoms are our body's way of talking to us and asking us to do something differently. Ie you're out of alignment, can you get on track, and I know it's not easy because our symptoms don't talk to us in the English language. So they're not there's a lot of you know, still having to figure it out as We navigate that path, we don't have a roadmap that we can just pull out and put our finger on and go from A to B, it is trial and error, it is learning. However, whenever we're experiencing symptoms, that's a sign that we need to start looking at doing something differently. And that's what you were doing, you would have all symptoms, whether they were emotional or physical coming up, and then you would know, I've strayed off course, I gotta get back on course, and find a way. Yes,

indeed. And again, that all sounds very tidy and unclear right now. But as I was learning all of these ideas, it was very confusing and unclear. And I want to keep, keep saying that, because I don't want anybody who's listening to this, to think that they're, if they're in any sort of confusion, or lack of clarity right now that there's anything wrong with them, this is all part of it. And, but absolutely. The learning your own signals and codes, because of you what you experience is different from what I might experience, learning how to listen to your own wisdom that comes to to you in its own language is if you aren't born with that, you have to start you have to figure it out. And so as I was continuing to figure this out for myself, I also was coming into my sort of area menopausal time of life, and under some life stresses that were not related to this story, but were there as we all have. And then I began to have other symptoms like joint pain. And one of the the major manifestations for me when my physical when I'm out of alignment, or joint pain, and energy, low energy, so I and I have some, you know, don't we all got things. And so the first introduction I had to, what I would now call functional medicine, or you could think of it as integrative is, was when I began reading some books for my own interest. Because I had been noticing whatever it was Tommy stuff, low energy, I didn't even realize that the joint pain I was having at the time was not just getting older. And so. So anyway, I started to read books, I started to learn about things like elimination diets, and all the kind of beginning stuff that I learned. And the very first time I did an elimination diet, was when I learned, oh, my hips don't have to hurt in the middle of the night. That's not just because I'm 40. Now, it's because I'm in joint inflammation, oh, my gosh, big light bulbs like that. And that led me eventually, over time into studying functional medicine, formerly as an MD, and getting a certification through the Institute for Functional Medicine, eventually,

I just, I just want to point out there as well, like what you're talking about is so common, you know, just societally we've been taught that as we get older, we should feel more pain, right? And we know that that isn't actually true of our body, our body, when it's in balance isn't feeling pain, and we weren't designed to feel pain or to suffer. However, societally, that's what we've been led to believe. So if, as a listener, you have that belief, I want to invite you to just revisit that belief and listen to Jennifer's story, because the reality is that pain is there for a reason. It's the symptom asking you to do something differently, which you did. You started reading, you started learning about functional medicine, you did an elimination diet that brought your inflammation levels down, and the pain went away. Yes. And so many people suffer with that. So it's just why I wanted to highlight that as a key point in your story.

Yeah, it was a key point for me, a big lightbulb moment for me. And I agree with everything you just said about pain and other physical symptoms are our message. And so actually are other quote unquote painful things in our lives, whether it's losing a job or any other unwelcome event in our life, to expand that idea even further into a philosophical realm. Any seemingly unwelcome event is always showing up for us to learn something about ourselves, if we can receive that experience that way. Does that mean when something bad happens to me, let's say, you know, a fender bender in the car. Does that mean that I immediately, as soon as the fender bender happens, start going, ooh, what could this mean for me? No, I take my moment, I have my tantrum. I have my little feeling bad for a while. But I will within a short amount of time, a few hours, let's say start going, hmm. Wonder what that really was about what is the message there for me from the greater kind of perspective about this thing that happened. And that to me, I believe that's true of things in my body, as well as true of other things in my life.

I 100% agree with that, as well. And what I really love about that, too, is when we choose to get to that, hmm, I wonder what this was really about? What am I supposed to learn here, it actually takes us out of our victimhood. Yes, moves us into our power, where we can now move forward as we look for the learning. And when we have the learning, we look back at that event with our 2020 hindsight vision, with gratitude, gratitude. Absolutely. That point, you know, when I was let go in 2015, from a 24 year career in one business that I loved, and I was given an hour to clear out my desk and no word of thanks. In the moment, that sucked. They were, I was angry. And however, in a very short amount of time, I was able to go Hmm, now what do I get to do with the next half of my life, the next half of my career, and I started looking at different opportunities. And I would never be here where I am today, in my career of passion and purpose, helping people with their health. If that hadn't happened, I would probably still be in that same hotel career working for the same company, because I enjoyed it. Yes, but I never had the same passion for it that I have here. So that happened for me to get me onto this path where I was always supposed to be.

Yes, yes, 100%. Agree. And all the windy, curvy things of my career path, if you will. And other things in my life, I view the same way. And it is all about shifting out of a victim stance and into an empowered stance. And living life from that place of empowerment. Without bypassing the emotional reaction that we just did. The thing is, if you don't let yourself have that moment, to have a tantrum, to be sad, to feel angry, whatever it is, then you end up storing that in your body as some other symptom, too. So there's this sort of balance and there's a dance to this idea of something unwanted happens, or we have a thing happened to our body, and not bypassing the human reaction to it. But getting really curious as soon as we're done with our reaction, about the greater meaning of it, the opportunity in it, moving from victim to empowered by that habit of doing that way easier said than done, by the way, depending on how big the thing is we're talking about. Absolutely,

yeah.

So to go back now to my timeline, my story, I had been on the hunt for a way to be trained to do energy healing. And it took me a long time many years I did I read tons of books, I went to seminars, I watched movies, whatever, whatever I visited, I had, you know, sessions with practitioners who did energy work, or intuitive readings, all these things. I kept looking and looking and looking for the right kind of training for me, because remember, I'm a physician, I am a scientist, I am a at heart and intellectual concrete, give me a list and a sequence kind of person. So many of the types of training programs for the world of energy are considerably less structured than what I would like. It's just a matter of alignment. So I finally found a shamanic training program that was very nicely structured and was perfect for me. And so I was trained to be a shaman in the tradition of the high Andes, Peruvian Indian tradition. So that's the lineage that I'm trained in. And what that brought me was another huge level of understanding of connection to nature, and even more of a relationship to the subtle energies of the world. And I made made friends with stones that I never really would have thought to, you know, consider as a ancient and being on the planet and all kinds of wonderful, lovely ancient things. And I also developed and learned began to have confidence in not only the effectiveness of something like a shamanic healing session for me, but learned that I could very readily help other people with stuff So, when I did that for them, and that was a really, it was so much fun to learn how to do that. So that's, that's that part of the story where I started transitioning into really using energy as a tool, another tool in my toolbox.

And a big shift from what you learned in medical school, it's almost kind of like 180 degree shift, it then allowed yourself to be open to Yes,

and I will say, I can remember all the way back during my medical school training and my residency years, I was always very open to acupuncture or other, you know, Eastern traditions. So I didn't have as long of a distance to travel between where I was as a physician and where I was, as a shaman. Because I had always had this openness to my I always believed that if it works, then it's it works, you know, and there's no need to, to shut down something that just because I don't really understand how it works. So, but I did get better and better at better at embracing and really leading into the mystery of it all. And it's such a relief, actually, in many ways to allow things to be mysterious, rather than everything needing to be defined down to the molecule, I enjoy both of those worlds, really.

And it's beautiful that you have all of those tools in your toolbox now for the work that you do with the clients that you have today. Yes,

it's an I keep going, I keep adding tools, every I'm not done. My winding path has not come to an end. I know now. And this is a really key learning for me that one of the things that's key for me to be imbalanced and healthy, not depressed, feeling good, energized, mentally engaged, is continuing to learn and grow and build my own toolbox. Always in service, always with the intention and the purpose, being in service to other people's learning and expansion and well being. That's the that's the core of it. And I know that I now know that that's what I need to do. I also know that I never ever need to stay stuck in anything that's not working for me anymore. That very first time I quit practicing medicine, it took me four tries to do it. But once I did it, and I realized, Oh, I didn't die of this. I have this at all. It expanded everything. Well, I've never I mean, it's not like it's been easy every time. But I know very certainly that there's whenever it's time for me to make a change or add something new, where if I realized I'm no longer aligned with something. I just change it's it's it's uh, I'm thoughtful, but I'm not. I'm not hesitant or afraid to do that.

And that is such a profound statement there that you said, I didn't die from it. Yes. Because so often that's what holds us back is there's this anxiousness this fear of whatever it is that we haven't done before that, you know, something is telling us we should do. And yet we're holding ourselves back. And when we break through that and don't die, and we show our brain that we didn't die, and our brains like oh, okay, we're good, because your brain, of course is, you know, charged to protect you. Right? So then it becomes easier each

time? It does. It definitely does. The brain has

been there, it knows that you're not going to die. And it's not going to, you know, put up the resistance that you might have felt the first time because yes, it was resistance from yourself as well as from people in your community, right? Absolutely. Yeah.

And I still have plenty of resistance from systems outside of me, by the way people or whatever it might be. The key difference really is how I respond to that information. I receive a person's sidelong glance or you know, a professional organization saying you're no longer qualified to be a member, whatever it might be, to me, but I could imagine that it has everything to do with how I respond to that information coming in to me and how I talk to myself. thing to do with getting the outside world to change. It's not about getting the outside world to change ever. It's always about what I am doing, and how I am learning to navigate my own my own life and and therefore be of assistance to somebody else who I might be talking with and working with. I don't ever ask a client of mine I'm to do anything that I haven't personally been through or done in my way. And that's very powerful to sit with someone who's contemplating a change and say, I've done that I've walked that path. And I know what that's like. And I know what it's like on the other side, too.

And I love that, because that's you showing up in your authenticity. Yeah. And being better able to serve that person. So I want to shift this conversation a little bit. Because the theme of this month is rest and rejuvenation. And I love how you're always exploring where you're at. And we recently had a conversation where you said that you were, you notice that in trying to follow mindfulness practices that it became as if you were toiling? Yes. And I would love you to share this story, because what I'm really loving about this whole conversation is the freedom that you're giving the listener to make the right choices for themselves. And I think this conversation is also very much in line with that. And so please share that story.

Yes, so the story goes, over the last year, this happened this year at the by the way, this light bulb moment for me. And I was contemplating the concept of rest. And the reason I was contemplating rest was actually from my own inner guidance, I was getting a message from myself a whisper, in a meditation or something like that, that I needed to rest. So what do I do? Well, my kind of default behavior is let's, let's do some research and read some reading. And what does that really what do I need to be doing? What's the checklist? So the concept, the concept of rest for me is, is what does the body need to do to recover from being taxed or stressed in some way, the body, the mind. And so we know there's a whole bunch of different ways that stress is shows up in our is there's different reasons that we are stressed, and in and of itself is not a bad thing. It's a necessary and healthy thing. It's only when there's there's too much stressed that we get into trouble or into dysfunction. So to me, stress is on one side and rest is on the other rest is what's needed to balance stress. So from that place, I began to contemplate Well, where am I stressing my system? And where is it therefore that I need to put rest? And so you know, you can think about stressing the body you can think about physical activity, you can think about toxins, you can think about mental social emotional stress of all sorts, and on and on. So for me, I know first of all, I am not by nature and over exerciser, I am a native Arteta i is stillness and quiet physical stillness and quiet. So for me, I I'm never at risk of overdoing it physically, with the exception of my medical training years where I just had to for my job, but I am not at risk for going and doing too much physically, that's not my area of needing to think about rest. I'm not a good sleeper. So one area is how am I sleeping? I you know, toxins? Okay, I do. I'm good at detoxes. So I was going through this list of sort of, where is it that I need rest, but I hit on the main thing for me, is my mental activity, which might be evident from the way that I even show up in this conversation, I have a lot to say I have a lot to think about. So I know that my mental activity is the part of my system that I have a hard time de stressing or putting into rest. So the automatic thing for me though, when I began to think about resting my my mental activity was mindfulness. Because mindfulness is the thing that is talked about the most, and floating around in the wellness world right now. And it's been floating around for a long time. And there's nothing wrong with mindfulness. Mindfulness is very, very important. So I got busy being more mindful. And I'm going to say that again, I got busy being more mindful. And I realized at some point, that not only was I not doing a good job of saying meditating or sitting and doing breath work, I was then feeling badly for not doing it well. And I was creating a lot of toil and work around my rest, which was supposed to be this mindfulness. So finally, one day this light bulb went off. Oh my goodness, I am just Add more stress and more toil and more work in, in service to rest. I just laughed at myself for this. And I, and then I sat down. And I got very clear and honest with myself and said, what actually do I need? What do I know, from my wisdom, I need to rest my busy Brain and Mind. And when I, I quickly came up with what it was, but then I almost wanted to dismiss it because it didn't seem acceptable. It wasn't the thing that a wellness podcaster would talk about. Here are the two things that I know for a fact, create rest for me from my mental stress. Number one is reading fiction, a book, a light, a cup of tea, I've been reading at bedtime in my bed every day since I could read every day. So reading fiction is one way that I know that I put my busy brain at rest. The other is sitting and watching. Purely entertaining shows, so used to be TV. Now it's something like Netflix, and watching not virtuous shows or shows where I'm learning from a documentary, which I love to do. But just straight up Mind Candy, dumb shows, reading fiction and watching dumb Netflix shows these are my true rest from my mental stress. Now, that was a big lightbulb for me, because then I got to go back into my own practice of sovereignty, self determination, listening to my own wisdom, and not listening to what others might say, or what I might have believed about the virtue of those things even 10 minutes before. So there you have it. This was my lightbulb moment a few months ago. And you know what, since then, if I am feeling like I need a break, I am going to sit down and I'm going to put a dumb Netflix show on with absolutely zero guilt. And I'm going to tell anybody who asks me what I was doing exactly that, that so this is where I've really changed and I'm not holding any shame, or guilt. Or and I've stopped the toiling after the rest I I'm gonna meditate or do something mindful when that is what I want to do. I'm not going to do that in service of rest. So that's the story.

And again, such a powerful story that other listeners might be like, Oh, wow, that's me. I've been working so hard at my mindfulness. Yes. And exhausting myself in the process. Yes, versus choosing an activity that is restful for them. And for someone else. Reading a nonfiction book. I'm like you that's how I check my mind is the exact two same ways. However, there's plenty of people who reading a fiction book would be hard work, and what isn't? That's right. A way to put their mind at rest.

So the point of this story is not do what I just said. The point is, is get real with yourself. First of all, are you overdoing it, maybe you are an exercise fanatic, maybe you absolutely love being out in nature and hiking, but you're actually overdoing it physically, because you're going on 10 mile hikes every day, which you love. But you realize you're you know, that's stressing your system, whatever the thing is, the point of the story, isn't Netflix and reading Outlander, it's, it's really getting honest with yourself about what you really need, and not what somebody else on a podcast was telling you to do.

Exactly. And so, you know, really tuning into yourself. And this actually ties back beautifully to a recent podcast. And it was Dr. John Demartini. It was episode 143, when he was on this podcast. And the title of that is set your own standard. And so this conversation is very much in alignment with that conversation that we had, if somebody wants to go back and listen to that episode as well, in that we each need to be guided by our own inner wisdom coming right back to the very beginning of this episode, and do what is right for us rather than what we believe we should be doing or society tells us that we should be doing. And this goes back to that term that you also referenced briefly, which was sovereignty, sovereignty, as used by the Divine Feminine priestesses, and I believe in the shamanic world that you call it self referential,

yes, self referential sovereignty, setting your own standard. All of those things convey the same, the same principle which is, you know, what's best for you. And taking responsibility for choosing the things that are best for you. That is, that is your, it's your birthright. And it is also literally your responsibility.

And I know that you use those beliefs, those understandings of those terms, in everything that you do and how you choose to show up in the world. Yes, I will certainly work in your clients as well. Absolutely

everything that I live from that principle, and I and I cultivate that with my clients, with the caveat that this, the sovereignty or this, this, setting your own standards, is done with an awareness of the world with an awareness of the other of whoever you're in contact with, whether you're in a grocery store, or you're in a deep conversation with, with an intimate person in your life. It's not, it's not only I'm a sovereign being, and anything that I want is best, and with no consideration for the rest of existence, it's a blend of those things, but it's, it's coming, anchoring myself, in my own self responsibility, my own sovereignty, walking in the world with the intention of being loving, and being in service. And it's the constant combo of those two things together, that I strive for that I that that's the idea of that I seek to, to reach. And I screw that up regularly. I do. And that's the other thing that I really want to make sure everybody understands is, I am just, you know, still figuring all of this out. And I give myself a break whenever I remember to. And I hold myself to a high standard A lot of the time that I, you know, probably don't need to so I'm still working and working on all of it. Yeah. And

you know, that's a very valid point, we are all a work in progress. None of us perfect, were human beings being perfect is an impossibility. And so yes, giving yourself grace when you need to. And, you know, just even the fact that, you know, you sit and ask yourself this question, what really is rest, and you're in your mid 50s. Now, right, and you're still learning and you're still having these light bulb moments. And recognizing that, you get to define what rest is for you. It's not about what everyone else says rest is. And that's true of all aspects of our life. So I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your stories. And you know, living in your authentic self, and sharing, you know, that you're not perfect, you're still learning, we're all still learning. Because again, that just gives so much freedom to the listener to give themselves some grace and some space to tune in, to what is right for them. And some people might never have done that. A

lot of people have never done that. And it's powerful and to be life changing. And so just

quickly, before we start to wrap the show, do you have a tip there that you can give someone who's never done that? Where would you recommend they start? Well,

you started by listening to this conversation. And truthfully, you won't ever be able to go back if you've really taken in this, this message, number one. Number two is I and again, each person is so different, but finding a way to get still, whether it's just in the shower, on a walk, or sitting in your house. Any way that sometimes driving, that you can give yourself an opportunity to listen for what your inner wisdom is saying to you. And that might sound completely impossible to imagine for somebody who hasn't done that. And I would say you do get whispers from your inner wisdom all the time. And you probably think you're just imagining it or you just had a thought. When actually a lot of that is is wrong why's whispering so give it a try. And just pick a time when you usually are you know your mind is wandering and you're kind of a Well, they just let let whatever pops up, pop up and see what you might even speak the question aloud. What do I need for rest? Or any other question?

Do I need to do next in this moment, etcetera?

What do I need today? What do I need today? Yes, any question? Great.

Yeah. Love that. Thank you for sharing all of this wisdom. And I love to ask every single one of my guests, what does don't wait for your wake up call mean to you.

Don't wait for your wake up call. To me, that has to do with the messages we get from our body when things are not balanced or not aligned. And what I'm referring to is small or big symptoms or things with your body that aren't feeling good. Whether it's an upset stomach, or an achy joint, or a rash, or hair falling out anything, whatever it might be your body is is full of messages. And if you are not responding to a message from your body, your your body's going to escalate those messages to the point, let's say for example, you are doing a job that is actually detrimental for you, it's out of balance you're doing because you need a paycheck, super common situation very understandable. And you begin to get an ache in your knee and you just blow it off. And you don't have time to go to the doctor and it's fine, you'll just take an Advil. And then that that's actually your body saying, You need to change what you're doing. But you're not hearing that message. And so the next thing that might happen is that you're walking around a corner or down a flight of stairs and your knee out of nowhere gives out and you fall and you injure yourself. Now you are at home on your butt getting better not at work, et cetera, et cetera. And our bodies have a way and that was a very simple, very kind of exaggerated example. But this wake up call idea is if Yeah, if you'd rather not get to the point where you're on your butt with your foot in a cast, then listening for the more subtle messages that are the Wake Up Calls. With that said many of us have ignored whispers until they become a big wake up call. And then we get the message. And that's okay, too. There's nothing inherently shameful about that. That is a part of our learning. So that's how I would that's what I think of when you when you give me that phrase.

I love that. And it reminds me of a quote that says, listen when your body whispers, so it doesn't have to yell at you. There you go. Absolutely. I love that. And that's really absolutely my thought process. And the reason for the title of this podcast, and it's just fascinating to ask every single guest because I always get different answers. So thank you. Now if people want to get ahold of you to reach out to work with you, how can they get ahold of you?

The easiest way is to go to my website, which will put the link in the notes, I'm sure but it's not in the show notes. Yes, my website is called luminous serena.com. I go by the name Lumina sometimes in my especially in my priestess world, so you'll see that if you go to my website, but it's me and also, am I allowed to offer them a special? Absolutely, yes. So if you if you that on my website, there's a contact form. And if you let me know in that note that you send me that you heard my podcast here with with Melissa then I will give you a an initial meeting for $77.77 As you'll see a lot less than what it costs usually. That's a 32nd 32nd now a 30 minute meeting with me. Also if you there's also a free consultation on there, which anybody's invited to sign up for for free this this offer would be our actual first appointment not that you would get that free consultation

and I have to ask because seven is my favorite number $77.77 is a very specific numbers. I'd love to hear your reason for that special price that you're offering to my audience and how perfectly it's my favorite number that

popped into my head. It's that's how I operate sometimes. So I was thinking of a you know a number that's different from what the last than what the actual price would be and and I like repeat Big numbers, which people often call Angel numbers. So it was really me listening to a whisper of my own wisdom just in the moment. They're

beautiful and in alignment with my favorite number. That's

where magic happens that way. Exactly.

So is there any last tip you would like to leave with the audience as we wrap up this podcast episode today,

the thing that I always sign off with is the best is yet to come.

Beautiful. Thank you so much for being on the show. I had so much fun chatting with you and having you share your wisdom with the audience. And to all of my listeners thank you for tuning in to the don't wait for your wake up call podcast each and every week. Learning growing and sharing this wisdom with other loved ones in your life. Thank you for investing this time with me on the don't wait for your wake up call Podcast. I'm so glad you joined in. If you can take two minutes to share this episode with someone you think can benefit and have a positive impact on their life. That would be wonderful. Please leave a review by going to your favorite podcast listening app. And let me know what you enjoy or would like to hear more of it will support me in my effort to bring the possibility of natural healing to a wider audience and help disrupt the sick care system we have today and make human health a global priority. Health is your true wealth.