Pregnancy loss and powerful parenting with my wife, Tina VanSteenbergen! - Encore

Welcome to diner talks with James, slide into the booth and let's have conversations we never want to end with friends. We never want to leave over food we probably shouldn't be.

My friends welcome to diner talks with James. I'm James, super excited to be with you today. As you can tell, this is already a special episode. The woman next to me, her name is Tina van steenbergen. I'm married to her, I win. I'm super excited to have you all part of this episode. And for you to get to meet Tina and learn a little bit more about our love, and also our business. And but more on that in just a bit, my friends. We have standards here. And just because I have a guest sitting next to me as opposed to on another screen across the country. That doesn't mean we change the standards, my friends. And so now let's kick it off with tonight's top three. Top three. Tina, you ready?

I'm ready. Yeah, I can't believe I feel very overwhelmed. Well, yeah. I always get to learn about the top three, top three before you do it. I'm never a part of it.

Oh, okay. That's a whole nother level. Oh, she nervous. Nervous. Joy, my friends. Let's talk about it. So, first off, Tina, I think we should talk about the top three times that we have broken down on the road. Yeah, no, that's happened a few times. Perfect. Here we go. Number three is on the Brooklyn and Queens expressway ie the BBQ e or as we call it the best quick. Tina and I lived in Brooklyn for a number of years happily loved it. New York City shout out. And one time she was driving me to the airport to look like garbage, ie LaGuardia. And we were driving over not ly LaGuardia. But we were driving over to LaGuardia and and then I noticed that the car was starting to buck a little bit. And then the clutch just fell to the floor in the middle of rush hour traffic on the beat BQE which is one of the main arteries of New York City. Also fun fact about the BQE there is no shoulder. So we literally just had to stay in the lane. Because the car just eventually stopped, had to put the flashers on a suburban one of coming up behind us flashes lights and said this looks like an old car. Do you mind if I just push you off the road? And we'll take it my friends because we save some money I'm telling. Thanks, buddy.

Turns out your car breaks down a major highway in New York City you don't call triple A you call 911. And then the cops come and drive your car off the highway. That's what we learned. Number two, on our way home from Minnesota to New York. We did the drive for the holidays. So we're driving back to New York where we live. We leave at like 6am because it's a 20 hour drive. So try to give ourselves a day and two hours into Wisconsin, like rural Wisconsin. December 29 ish. Our tire blows out at six in the morning. And James has to get the car and tried to change said tire on side of the highway. Bonus. It is negative 20 degrees outside Am I being dramatic potentially but it at least

it felt like negative turnover was negative 20 before before the Windchill is like negative 36 melenchon. No exaggeration, which is unusual for us.

Yeah, no, that's about but I sat in the car was sharing the dock. And James had a really, really shitty morning to shout out. Turns out you can buy tires on Walmart.

Yep, that's what I learned. I definitely got out there and realize my hands were going to stick to it much like a Christmas story with my tongue on the pole. And so I decided to come back inside and call AAA. Last but not least the third time in most epic time that we broke down. Tina was driving. We were driving through the state of Pennsylvania Of course we were Tina's favorite state to drive traffic. And we were driving through Pennsylvania. And the same thing that happened to me on the BBQ. He happened to Tina, one exit away from Clarion, Pennsylvania and so the clutch fell to the floor. She's like, I can't get the clutch. I don't know how I can't do anything and we coasted over to the side. we wind up having to spend the night and Clarion, Pennsylvania the car spent three weeks in Clarion, Pennsylvania shout out to that enterprise for getting this home. They didn't pick us up it's all a sham. That said the first top three top three my friends up next Gina? May I say that you're killing it. So thank you so much. Sure you should be a speaker. Yeah. All right. Top three memories. We didn't know that. We We're making three members we didn't know we were making,

um, one of our first trips ever together to think we were technically going is kind of friends. I don't know it's all gray area at that point. Um, it was one of the first times James took me on an adventure, which turns out now as a theme of our life, but we went and drove the Avenue of the Giants in Northern California. And it was one of the first times in my life that I ever traveled and saw beautiful things just because there was a day to travel and see beautiful things. And seeing them through James's eyes and James's camera and seeing these gigantic, stunning trees is one of the coolest days of my life I'll never forget, because I didn't know that it was gonna be epic. And turns out, it was indeed,

epic redwoods worth your time worth it. There is wisdom in those trees, my friends. I'm not a big energy person. But for some reason, whenever I'm around redwoods, or sequoias, or the ocean, there's just as just wisdom in it. And that's cheesy, but I don't care because I love cheese. Next thing is that we were driving up to Santa Barbara for your friend's graduation with from his doctorate. And we decided to pop into this shack in Malibu I know you're Malibu and Shaq, it doesn't sound like they go together. This place was a true shack on the side of the road. It just had seafood here. And we decided to pull in. And we had one of the best seafood meals that we have ever had is one of those things where you come in and you point in the case, and then they just cook it for you. But the reason why I was special is it was also BYOB, we didn't know that we were driving. But we sat down with these two old ladies, these two old ladies and they befriended us and they gave us wine. And we had these amazing conversations with these individuals. But it was awesome because we had them separately and then together. And it was one of those moments where when I got back in the car, I was like I cannot wait to extrovert for the rest of my life with you all over this country and this earth. And so that was a really beautiful moment.

And when you do that, I mean not not covered. But before that on time. Number three was one of the first times we ever hung out on the road together. This was surely when we were just friends. I was doing a gig This is back when I worked at fired up, shout out to fire now this is when I was a speaker for a company and I was booked to do a gig at Chapman University. James was also in LA doing work. We met up and we were having coffee, I think. And I said do you want to do this gig with me? For both speakers. We've never spoken together like as far never seen you speak you want to see me speak. Let's do this. So we sort of split the curriculum in half James actually taught on behalf of fired up for the person all the time of his life. And we shared the stage together for the very first time in a classroom at Chapman University for a chapter of sorority women. And the category we're doing is memories we didn't know we were making, right? Yeah, I knew he was good. I just didn't know how good and I didn't know how powerful it was going to be to share the stage with him. While he blew these young women's minds like he made all 38 of them weep. That's normally my department. But he just came in like it was insane. It was insane. The energy in the room was out of control. And it was it was overwhelming. The power in that room when we were able to share the stage together for the very first time. I will never forget that day.

Yeah. Yeah, I think the word that I used was electric. There was a truly it was powerful. It was really special. And I kind of immediately saw our future as potentially owning a business together even though we were four or five years from that even happening. We weren't even really dating yet. But it was one of those moments where I was like, yeah, this is gonna happen a lot more. So it was beautiful. Top three memories we didn't know we were making at the time. Last but not least my friends. Here are our top three disagreements. Tina, are you ready for this one? I'm ready. Perfect. So right. Great, great. Everything's fine. First off, I like to drink lukewarm water.

Who likes to drink room temperature? who chooses room temperature water when you could have ice cold water? This program is sponsored by Yeti.

Seriously, send us money. Next.

I love ketchup. Ketchup is disgusting. Ketchup is disgusting. It is the worst condiment in the history of condiments. It is nasty. Oh and on anything I want. I want fries. I wanna I wanna anything.

No. He's like, yeah, buy

it to keep in the fridge. No.

That's fair. And then last but not least Tina. What is my favorite number? I'm so mad at you. Right? What is what's my favorite number? How did I not know you? Were gonna do this. I'm not telling you Your favorite number my favorite number is 27. My friends. That's the amount of World Championship World Series. The New York Yankees have won.

Yankees have been buying baseball for decades, centuries garbage. Thank you for destroying my childhood, too many times. No. I my mom said to me, I don't care who you marry, marry whoever you want in your life. I don't care what they do for a living. I don't care where they come from. Just don't marry a Yankees fan.

Buckets folks, and that's how you do it. It's okay. I mean, the twins are coming up on 27 also 2011 straight playoff losses. Just another hour fighting. My friends. That is the end of top three top three and potentially our marriage. But it was worth it. My friends I now want to bring on my guest who's already here. But I want to tell you about her. To my left. To my left is Tina Ray van steenbergen. Tina Van steenbergen is one of the most powerful speakers that I have ever had the opportunity to listen to experience and learn from. She empowers women to build, build their confidence. She believes that confidence for women is a team sport. And she believes in the power of female friendships after not having many herself interesting story we will come back to also she is an outrageous facilitator. She is an incredible dog mom Sherry is back here, right right here. She's dark. But more importantly than that, she is one of the few people who I let believe in me. And she is someone who has had my back from the jump. It is so much easier for me to love Tina than it is for me to let her love me. But she is as you can tell, passionate and voracious. And she didn't take that as an answer. That was acceptable. She laughs at my jokes occasionally. I call those good days. She is also an incredible woman and the mother too are soon to be born child. That's it. That's it. This is actually my first presentation with our child so feel pretty good about how it's going so far my friends the one the only the incredible the incomparable Tina Ray Van steenbergen You didn't tell me you're gonna do that. Hi. As overwhelming. Let's just keep smiling through it. Tina, what's going on? This is dire talks to you you've heard of it. Late Night eats are something that you enjoy you enjoy good late night mode. What is your late night mood now you're a Midwestern er born and raised in an oak Amina soda Don't you know don't shun oka. And and so born and raised in the Halloween capital of the world. And by that in the state of Minnesota, that's what they call it. Look it up. It's a real thing. So, but I am I know that you were passionate about Late Night Moves. What is your late night eating move? Are you going as you go on breakfast? You're doing a late night steak. What are you doing lobster?

Yeah, Lauren, Minnesota get laughs Minnesota diner lobster. Yeah, that's when I was in high school. The Midwest. I didn't know diners were a thing until I went to the east coast. So in the Midwest, we don't call them diners. We call them Perkins or Denny's. So in that situation, breakfast all day breakfast is my favorite food. I'll put a Friday on anything. It's one of my favorite things on Earth. But when I started experiencing real diners, I think I have now and you know as i mature in my life, I have grown to a grilled cheese with bacon and tomato on the side of ranch dressing.

Sure. I mean everything with ranch. Thank you ketchup garbage, we've returned. Actually what I do is I usually will take my grilled cheese and I'll dip it in a little bit of ranch and then I'll put it in catch up. Because you boy out here chef and at these diners, my friends chefin Alright, so Okay, so grilled cheese with bacon is a classic. Yeah. Now are you a milkshake person? Are you like what do you what are you drinking that at night ice cream all

day? Well, this fun fact about diners especially dancers in New York City boots. There's alcohol or

die the Greeks do stock their diners with

you to go to a Perkins in Minnesota and get booze but once I learned that if we're hitting a diner at 230 in the morning, I'm probably going to have a glass of shady red wine. Sometimes even a bourbon if they got a whole bar back there. I'm not ashamed. I'm willing to go we're gonna do it. We're gonna do it. Otherwise milkshake all day. Yeah, strawberry.

Gosh, no, by far the least. Excellent milkshake. I think a pattern here. What anyway? So, uh, if you are a bourbon girl I am When did you become? When did you get into bourbon? When did that happen to your life?

grad school? Okay. Yeah, grad school I dated a kid from Kentucky, who had been a passionate bourbon drinker for a long time. And I already knew that I didn't like clear liquor, college teaches you things. And, but I'd always been drinking like I've been drinking whiskey but always mixed with something, which now makes me like, again, do that ever again. But Kevin taught me about bourbon and maker's was the first bourbon that I had on the rocks. That's when I learned that water, a little bit of ice in your bourbon opens it up, makes it even sweeter, takes away some of the alcohol burn. And so that's really where I learned that I enjoyed it. And then, as you previously described me as passionate, took the bourbon love to a whole nother level and kept trying different things and learning different things. That's beautiful. Yeah,

we have a stock. We have a stock cabinet over here because of your passion for bourbon. That's actually one of the things that you miss the most in pregnancy. Is that right?

Oh, that's right. Yes. I think that would be true, regardless, but in a global pandemic. Yeah, I could use the bourbon. Yeah, that'd be lovely. I'll take it. Yep. On the rocks. Neat. I don't care. I'll take it. That would be lovely. Yes, I do. I miss. Like, yes, I miss having a drink, certainly. But I also miss there's a little bit of a ritual to it. Okay, to pouring a bourbon or a drink that you really love to drink. I just missed there was like, like the period of the end of the sentence, right. It's the end of the day. You've gotten through your day, and I get to have a treat. Now. I just need ice cream. They can't take that from me. Take that and take that. I do I miss bourbon a lot.

Yeah, for sure. It is. It's funny. We had to lock it up. Not because you were fiending for it, but just why dangle the carrot. Right. Just like staring at me. Yeah. Was really giving you cider. Yeah. Fair. So it goes into the cabinet. Unacceptable. Yeah. That's it. We handled that. And now you have learned to enjoy a bourbon. I have Yes. Yeah, it's funny, I did not drink my I did not drink my first drop of alcohol until around the age of 30. And that was the first time I ever really had any alcohol. And it was a up until I really knew you I had an alcohol five times they were all champagne toasts and best man speeches that I delivered. And that was about it. And so alcohol was just never a huge part of my life. And for a number of different reasons. I mean, one, the alcoholism gene runs in my family. And, and so there's that. So I was a little bit scared about it. But also, also I just liked the life I was living and didn't want to drink to change myself now. And so that was a big thing for me, I now have come to find that there's a little bit of control issues in there as to why I don't drink. But the previous reason sounds way cooler. So we'll stick with that. But still be out. But then you came around you introduced me to bourbon. Yeah. And 13. Here's the funny thing about alcohol is that here's what they don't tell you. Most people started drinking in high school and things like that. And I started drinking in high school, or maybe college or something like that. And so they're drinking all the cheap stuff, because that's all that they can afford. And but everybody's doing it. So everybody's just doing it. And no one really cares that it's a keystone light or that it's a you know, a plastic bottle or something on the bottom shelf there just like this is alcohol. We are supposed to consume this social norms and also a sense of what's your McCall's, it's their self esteem. And so insecurities that was the word, but they got used to the taste of alcohol. So now when those individuals come to love other alcohols, they're actually picking up all these notes. And so you and I went on the bourbon trail, and it was an amazing experience with the seven or eight wineries. And but why wineries I mean distilleries go to the wineries on the bourbon trail, and clearly I'm an alcoholic. But so, but it was fascinating because they're always like, what do you what do you taste and here were the notes that you're picking up in here and some people who I'm getting some dark chocolate who I'm getting some I'm getting a little bit of tobacco, I'm getting a little bit of chestnut caramel, I'm getting some vanilla, right? And I'm over here like the number one flavor I'm getting his rubbing alcohol is anybody else picking up the rubbing alcohol in this? It's kind of like it's very similar except I like I now like bourbon more than I like flavored waters. But you love these flavored waters and like raw and spindrift and bubbly. This podcast is brought to you by all those flavored waters By the way, but still, you enjoy yourself a flavored water. Thank you. Thank you. spindrift is a superior But I do yeah, I use it for a while. Can we have a moment about flavored water let it's literally like someone did a drive by with a strawberry on the factory that was just carbonated water, a strawberry drove by and they're like marketed.

I disagree with you. But I also especially thoroughly under the bubbly water in pregnancy since I can't pick up the notes of your delightful bourbon. I'm gonna pick up this strawberry note. Take it to the bank. That's all I got. That's it. That's all I can have. I'm

sure there's some flavored water people out here loving this.

Water is delightful. And it's mostly for the bubbles more for me more than anything else, because I don't drink soda as much as I used to. But like a good. Cold carbonated beverage is lovely. Yeah, I agree to drink dye mountain every day. I agree with that.

That's true. Yeah, no, that's that's not gonna happen. Make your balls shrink. So

I'm Tina. I don't I don't want to be the one who tells you this. But I will be but this is already this is this feels good. You're pregnant? I am. How? How does it feel? Now let's let's back all the way up. Because motherhood is something that you have always been interested in. Like literally maybe the second or third time that we ever spent any significant amount of time together. We were about to get up after a lovely sitting in art in a sculpture gallery in Minnesota. And it's already false. It's already isn't six months.

It was six months in. Okay. Well, that's pretty much the third date, six months. Okay,

now I agree with you. That's totally fair. I mean, but, uh, but uh, you, you pull you pull me aside, hey, before we go anywhere, I just want you to know that being a mother is something that I've always wanted to do. I'm really looking forward to it. It's something that I believe that is I think I'm going to be good at it. It's something that I really want in my life. And you said, if being a father isn't on your list, then we may need to talk about what we're doing a little bit differently here. And I respected the hell out of that. Right. I mean, first off, clarity always and your ability to come up with clarity of like, this is what I want. If you don't want this, then we need to course correct. ie probably break up. But still, but still. Since when did you know that you wanted to be a mother like women? What is it something that happened to you? That's a good question. I don't know that. I know. I don't know that. I

know. I was a little girl who loved dolls. American Girl dolls for life, taking care of them. All right. Taking care of them. That was so as a small child that was always something that was a part of my life. Especially a huge Barbie fan, which is a little crazy if you know me now Well, I can tick Barbie person.

You hate you hate hot patient Really? Don't like the color pen past open.

Yeah, there's some pain but yeah, it's been I've come a long way again, maturity. Um, but I don't I'm so I don't even know that I can pinpoint for you like a moment. Yeah. But I know that all through high school. College, I never knew what I was going to be when I grew up, I changed my major, every semester of college. And even well into my 20s. I didn't never know if I was gonna get married. Because I didn't never know that. There were compromises in my life that I was unwilling to make. And so I didn't know if I was ever going to have a husband. But I knew I was going to be a mom, I have known that for most of my life that I'm Will, whether I have kids physically or I adopt kids or foster kids or re I will be a mom. That has been one identity of which I've been sure. Yeah, when all the rest of them were question marks.

That's beautiful. So it wasn't something I feel like there are a lot of women that are society pressured and told, you will be a mother, you are here to be a mother. Right? Which is extremely disrespectful. But that is something that women are told was that something that you were told, when you were younger? Is that something that you remember not necessarily being pressured towards, but something that's like, you know, it's not like you went to college to get your Mrs. Right.

But still, yeah, that's a good question. I don't I don't remember feeling that way. And the reason I think I know that I didn't, I was never told is because I don't like to be told what to do. And so most of the things that society has told me I'm supposed to do or have to do, I reject fervently. And so I don't believe that it was something that was expected of me in that department. I know like my high school boyfriend and I talked about having kids when we were 20 because I grew up in a suburb where you mostly stayed and you had kids, you And you become a teacher at your old high school, right? You just sort of fall into the life that you knew. And so I, but again, it wasn't a Tina, you will have my babies kind of conversation, right? It was I want to be a mom, too. Let's figure this out. Whenever people ask me why I just come back to I think it's because I have a really bad ass mom. I think that's why you think that's watching my mom be a mom. And of course at 16 I didn't realize how good of a mom she was like she certainly figured out later in your life. I think watching my mom mom was part of what made it feel right for me. Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, for sure. Especially as someone who was raised predominantly by single parents, right, like, I mean, your I mean, your mom is a workhorse Yes. And is an incredible individual. I mean, you know, this is, I mean, we got we got me out of New York City, which we didn't think was ever gonna happen. I sure as hell didn't think was gonna happen. But one of the things that was that was easy for me to swallow and coming here, because we came to Minnesota with the idea of trying to have wanting to start a family. Now I'm one of the biggest proponents for me and wanting to come here was your mother, and just how good of an individual and human that she is. And it's funny, because if we told her if she was listening, right now, the excuses would be coming to fly. And it would be like, I was a great mother, because I had great children. That's not really how science works. Unfortunately, neither nature nor nurture, actually. But, but she tries to get out of the compliments. And you know, it was just good than Western, which is impressive.

She's impressive. I do, I think, yeah, I think knowing that made it easier for both of us, I think, to come here with knowing that my mom would be a more present physical part of our life. And I think my mom's parenting was a big push for me. I also think on the reverse side. My biological father is not a part of my life hasn't been for a very long time is just generally speaking, not a good person. And see how sometimes you want to do the job somebody else did, because they were great at it. And they inspired you and made you want to do the job. And sometimes you do the job because you had a really shitty version of that job in your life. And you want to go course correct. And like fix it, right. So like, for as wonderful as my mom was, my dad was not. And so I think that's probably part of the other call to parent is like, I know what it feels like to have a shitty parent. And I want like course, correct, right? I want to like, make up for that in the world. Like, give love to children in the way they're supposed to be loved. Right. So that I think there's there's probably both sides to that coin. Yeah. And it for me.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's so interesting, where some of the we pick up some of those lessons that we don't know that we're learning, right? I mean, our parents are those that raised us planted seeds that they wish grew faster. But sometimes they didn't sprout until I was 34. Hypothetically, but still, like they still they were in there. And then they eventually did pop up. And you're like, Oh, I don't know, a man told me that one day. Yeah, I have been my father. But it's so interesting for sure. Where we pick up some of those those lessons. And so we now have the opportunity to be parents. Yeah. Which is exciting. And this is not our first opportunity to be parents. You and I, unfortunately, unfortunately, have had a pregnancy we've experienced pregnancy loss. And no pregnancy loss is the same. And and ours was ours was very devastating for a number a number of reasons. I mean, ultimately, it was one of those things where it I would say the pregnancy happened just a little bit before we were ready. Right? We were like, we're like, Man, this maybe like six months later, this would have been perfect. But you can't you can't help with things like that happen. I mean, you can technically But still, we thought we had helped. But still it happened. And so so at first you get nervous and at first you're like, is this what we want? Is this how are we going to be okay, we weren't planning we weren't anything. And and then it happened. And then we made the decision, you know, eight weeks and to be like, no, let's go. Let's figure when are you ever ready for this? It's something that everybody tells you. When are you ever ready for this? And then unfortunately, and devastatingly for you and I around 20 weeks well into the second trimester. We lost. We lost our child. And it was I will never forget being in the hospital and hearing the silence of the nurses. The Silence of the nurses and the and then the whispering to the doctor and then we'll be right back. I'm gonna have somebody take a second look, and, and whatnot. And it was I will never forget the silence because you and I just had a banging lunch at one of our favorite places, shout out to El Centro, and getting them chilla key lace still our Wi Fi name. And, and so, but we went in bright eyed and bushy tailed, and really excited. And because we had committed at that point, we had already started making plans to move to Minnesota, I had already started looking at daycare centers and things like that. And and so and then the whole rug was just pulled from out from under us. Yeah. I'm curious. I'm curious for you. What was it? Like? What was it like to be so close to to almost having this lifelong idea that you knew that you wanted in your life? And then just to have it completely ripped away of nobody's fault, other than an absolute freak genetic one in 60 or $80,000 chance? Turns out, we're very lucky in the saddest way, but I, what was that? Like, in that moment? I guess this idea of like, Oh, I can I can have it. And we can't. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't. I don't, I am a different person. Because of what happened to us. And because of that loss, I'm not I'm not the same human that I was before. Which is interesting for me to say, because I'm a super self aware person, somebody who knows who I am. And I'm confident in my right, like, and so to have, right and they say motherhood changes you right, like we know we are we, I understand the idea of it right. And so, to start to wear the identities or to put on the hat of motherhood, right, to start to make decisions like parents like for us to leave Brooklyn and move out of our 600 square foot apartment right there. For us to start to make decisions about blocking my calendar, which sounds silly, but our work is such a huge part of our life and says, sir, to allow yourself to dream. And many pregnant women I of course, can't speak for everybody. But many pregnant women don't really allow themselves to dream until they're making out of the first trimester. Because there's so much that could go wrong in the first trimester. And because it was a surprise pregnancy for us. I was not I did not allow myself to experience any joy, any enthusiasm, until we were out of the first trimester. Because it was so scary. The whole thing was scary. And then we got out of the first trimester and I was like, Oh, shit, okay, we're gonna have a baby.

We got ourselves a loved one. Right? Yeah,

exactly. I'm gonna be a mom, right? And start to put the pieces of that life of ours together, subscribe to fatherly

comms blog.

And then all of a sudden, you're not. Yeah. And there's several moments in our trauma that I will never forget. And one of them was the day after all of our procedures and things like that. And when you become pregnant becomes this like, huge part of your identity. Because it literally shifts everything about the way that you live your life, including how often you use the bathroom, and what clothes you're allowed to wear. Like, it's just everything. And then all of a sudden, I was sitting on the couch, I was like, I'm not pregnant anymore. And even that, like I don't even know that I got to I don't get to be a mom. Because I was still stuck in that I'm not even pregnant anymore. That's true. And that like that physical, right? That was really that was the first like, pool, everything in our world has changed. And then because I couldn't have this identity that I wanted, I like compartmentalize it and push it all the way to the back of the closet. Yeah. And I said to you, I said to the agency, I was working with a time I was like, if I don't get to have a kid, I want to work harder than I've ever worked in my life. Like I want to do more gigs than I've ever done in my life. Like if I don't get to do this, then I'm going to do this instead. Yeah. And our baby was supposed to be doing march of 2019. And in 2019, I think it is 77 speaking engagements. Correct. And I just dove headfirst into that because I couldn't have the other part. It was literally like

I'm going to do I'm going to work more than I've ever were. I'm going to bust my ass Yeah. And just then I'm diving into what I have. Yes. And and then my cue the movie montage of like, and so she did, like all of these lives getting impacted by you. It was really it was it was a really Interesting time for us. And interesting is the only word that I know how to describe it. It was devastating. It was absolutely devastating and horrific. And it also made us fall in love even deeper. Yes. And, you know, there's there's times where laws can push you apart, right, the different grieving patterns and, and whatnot and so, but this did not. And and we really did, we pointed the ship at our businesses, and we said, well, let's, let's bust it. And it is. It's incredible. It's one of those things where I want to celebrate you because of what you did. But it's also sometimes like when you celebrate an athlete that like, adored him, he won the finals on a torn ACL, he's like, he shouldn't have been playing, right. So like, it's kind of like the things that we choose to celebrate his strength are oftentimes a little bit weird when you actually unpack them. But that is, indeed what you did is you I mean, that is that's where you found your strength, or your like you said your compartmentalization. And it was really incredible to witness. But you also took the moments that you needed to take. And that's what that's what I admire about you is also is that it wasn't just like, screw it, I'm gone, right? Like you still had these moments where you let your heart feel what your heart was feeling. Now, when we let loss happen to us, and things like that. And so I still don't know how you were able to juggle it all. Because as as the man in a relationship in, in a relationship like ours. Turns out nothing. I mean, very minimal things are happening to me, genetically and scientifically and inside right like matter. Lots change. I mean, don't get me wrong, also have some more ice cream, because it's the right thing to do. But nothing chemically changed within me.

Yeah, we call that biological privilege in this house. Oh, you mean to tell me that men have privilege? Back home on a podcast?

But yes, for sure. We got another example of male privilege. And so but yeah, it was. It was incredible to witness. But also, like it was a little bit actually of like, what do you need right now?

I bet it was hard. And I can't I think one of the reasons that we were able to remain close or even grow closer, was because of the way that you showed up to support me. And just an authentically James way of like, what do you need right now? How can I help? Let me cry when I need to cry? Let me not talk about any shot, talk about it right there weren't you let me sort of write the rules in that department, which I needed. And I don't know that you I don't think you're wired to do it any other way. But I also think a lot about how hard it must be to watch somebody go through something that you understand, but don't fully empathize with just because there's pieces of it didn't happen to your body. Right? It happened to our family. It happened to you as much as it happened to me, but the physical pieces of it, and then some of the hormonal pieces of it. It's just different, right? Like you knew we were having a baby versus feeling physically that right. It's just different, right? And so to watch. And you know, you mentioned not being able to have control, right, but to watch the person that you love the most in the world, be in pain that you understand, but can't fully empathize with. I think often about how hard that must have been for you to just try to nap like, how do you? How do you I didn't even know what I needed. I couldn't even have told you if it asked. Right. So i don't i don't i'm i'm actually grateful. Well, I'm

glad you brought that up because I was hoping the segment would be about me. No, I think we I think that one Well, I think that one one. God. So here's the cool thing, right? Is that is that you know, we obviously that that that happened to us. We experienced that loss. We took the time we needed that cake. And then and then we there came a time where like, you know what, let's try again. Now a mutual decision in a beautiful place. And also we went to Italy for a month. So we're like this feels like a good place to at least try and practice. And so I mean, you know, you got a hunk of a monster fell over here. Laugh at some of his jokes. Oh, well, that'll that'll come around. Yeah, so, but we are now at the place where you know it took us a while. That again to work. And and there was there was again some doubt and like what happened last time? What didn't happen this time, but now we get to be parents. Yeah, that's pretty insane. Yeah, this this, this little human is is coming out in early January ideally between the two of us certainly will be someone who shows up on time and follows all the rules. Absolutely. Yeah, this feels like that'll happen, right. Yeah, I agree. I agree. So, um, but now that it is now that we are we have passed the 20 week mark, which was really huge for us. We didn't tell anybody until after 20 weeks because of what happened to us prior. So now that after the 20 week, Mark, we have gotten to where we are, we are now we just crossed into the third trimester, which is overwhelming. So now like it's happening, yeah, turns out right, like, like the landing gear is coming out. The runway is in sight, we got to use travel analogy. And right, the flaps are coming up on my body like an airplane anyway. So I think that the point is, the point is, is that this is happening, how does it feel right now, knowing that we are t minus three months from holding a little person?

Ah, if we're playing a drinking game for how many times I say the word overwhelming on the podcast, because that's where we're at right now.

I don't like interesting count going for me, right? No worries.

Yeah, it's insane. It's. And for those of you who have been pregnant, I would imagine that you'll empathize with this, I feel like I've been pregnant for forever. And how is there only three months left? Like I like to be in the same place and believe both of those emotions at the same time is overwhelming. I think for me, you know, as a part of our healing from our loss. And a part of trying to get pregnant, which trying to get pregnant is an incredibly, for some people, is a very easy thing, and for several other people is not. And it's hard and painful and complicated and confusing, and a whole lot of things. And our journey to getting here was not easy. And at one point, you said to me, which I don't think is ever easy for a partner or a close friend to say to anybody, but you said to me, I wonder if it's time for you to talk to somebody. I mean, this in the kindest, most loving way possible, but it feels like you're the stress of trying to get pregnant is really overwhelming you right now. And I wonder if it's time for you to talk to somebody, like telling anybody that it's time to talk to a counselor, it's like, not an easy conversation to have. Especially not when that person is your wife. And especially not when that person is moved to see you tomorrow. Or quarantine. Like this was like March. And so it was difficult bomb to defuse. There was a there was a bold move, sir, it was a bold move. And I didn't know that enjoy it for the first 24 hours. Think wait does require 20 was quiet in our house, which is not normally a word. describe our house. Yeah, okay.

Um, and starting to talk to a counselor for me started with trauma work. And like reliving the trauma that we had experienced in our pregnancy loss. This has a point, I promise, because part of the trauma work was allowing myself to finally admit what I wanted, without being afraid. And so this council that I'm working with, how it made you had us do a meditation. And the question that was asked over and over again, for 13 minutes straight as meditation was, when you think about the life that you want, what do you see? And over and over and over again, all I could think about was some nurse or doctor putting a tiny human in our arms. And I don't know without you saying, Tina, it's probably time for you to talk to somebody without me doing that work without that counselor making some of those suggestions. I don't even know that to be able to tell you right now. That being less than three months away from that tiny human actually being placed in our arms is I'm not scared. labor. I'm scared of that shits terrifying. But like, I'm maybe more confident about this than about starting our my business or going into business together or when I get on stage and do my job like I just know I have finally let myself after all that we've experienced, except the fact that this is what we're supposed to do. I just I know it. And I'm, I'm, of course, and that ignorant or naive to how hard and scary it's going to be, but I just know that it's what we're supposed to be doing. I just I am excited. I think it's going to be amazing, and terrifying and exhausting and overwhelming. And I also think it's gonna be it's, it's what we're supposed to do. So I think it's overwhelming and really wonderful, positive, bad ass ways. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I think, you know, I oscillate between that. overwhelmed, overwhelmed, and very excited. And oh, it's cool. It's Wednesday, right? Like, it's this weird mix of things where it's like, again, nothing's happening to me. And so I'm like, Oh, it's on my calendar today. And I'm like, What do I want to do and be unhindered doing? Right, like, and so there's days like that, or like, oh, shoot, right? having a baby? What do we need to do? What's going on? I gotta do this. And fortunately, I love to research things, right. Like, I create my own Consumer Reports. And, and so yeah, so like, I love to do that. And that's where I dive in. That's where I try to be helpful, and, and whatnot. But I think it's also that's my little ways of trying to control certain things, too, right? Like, which one of these strollers is not going to kill my kid, kind of thing. And so, but also, but also overwhelmed. And I think for me, what the overwhelm the overwhelmed side of it comes from two pieces. And I really love I love, I love what you shared. I think for me, when I think about, when I think about the overwhelmed piece of it, it comes in two pieces. The first one is Oh, my God my life. Right? Like, we live a really cool life. Yeah, we get to travel, we get you know, I mean, you and I have a goal. And this is our goal also when the kid comes, but we have a goal of living somewhere else on this earth for at least four to five weeks a year. Right. And, and that's a goal that we will do with our child as well, we've already started talking about it. And that's amazing. But we also travel a bunch time for a work and whatnot. And so one thing that you always hear about with with with parents is that presence matters. And, and so but it's like, but something also that you hear about with parents is that if you love what you're doing, if you love what you're doing, then that energy gets transferred into your house. Sure, right. Because you're coming home and you're happier. And you're right, and you're feeling fulfilled. And we we can tell when we are next to somebody who is fulfilled, and we want that for them. And so it's this weird push pull of a situation. And so there's that overwhelm side of it. And then the other overwhelming part of it for me is, is how do you raise a kid? And 2020 2021 2030 2035? Right, like, I mean, I know for me, you're younger than me. But like, for me, I didn't know I got my first cell phone in college. And I got my first email address it was I think I've shared it on the podcast before it's like 746208 compuserve comm I was not something I could choose. And so but it is. It's, you know, just the idea of parenting, when there's so many things that you can try to control as a parent. But at the end of the day, you also need to trust, right? Where do you let your kids your kids learn? Where do you let them take their legs? Where do we know that failure also is one of life's greatest teachers or, and so that balance of, of loving, at the same time teaching and at the same time? At the same time, like wanting them to be independent, right? That's something that my parents instilled big time in us is that, you know, from from an early age, they said, we're raising you to be independent, right. And there's been a lot of pros to the way that they did that. My brothers and I are all quite independent. I don't think we talk as much because of it, but that's fine. We're working on it. And But still, I think that I think there's a fierceness and independence. It's really bad ass. Yes. Um, but yeah, so I don't know. I guess those are like, when I think about my emotions coming into it. That's where that's where I'm at. Sure. And I'm also excited. I mean, let me not just sit them. The overwhelming side is easiest to talk about, because our nerves are sitting here playing ping pong. But I'm also I'm also excited about the opportunity to try to raise a man in a society that needs good men, right or to try to raise a woman and it's the side of it needs great women. Yeah, right. It's right to raise a human and a society that needs a great human is really? I don't know, I'm excited about that part of it.

Yeah. And I think that's one of my favorite things about the differences between you and I the way our brains work. For our strengths, quest folks out there, one of James's top five strengths is futuristic. So like when James said that we did that program together, and he saw us going into business together five years, my brain was not there. My brain was like, he's so like, that's all I got. That's where my brain is at. Because futuristic is like in my bottom five strengths. I wrap my brain around my calendar tomorrow, when we're done filming tonight, like that's it. And so my brain hasn't even gotten to like, what happens when it's cell phone time? And like, how do you raise a kid a month, all this technology? And like, how do you create a good little person in the world? Right? Like, my brain is very much in the house? How are we going to make sure that we effectively communicate while there's a screaming human five feet from us? Sure. Right? or making sure that I asked for help? Because I can very easily be like, no, I got it. I'm super independent. I'll handle it by myself. But I don't need to do that. Because I have this incredible person helping do this with me, right. And so I love that your brain is thinking about all those things. Because by the time my brain catches up to be like, I've been thinking about this since 2020. Let me tell you what,

my brain has not even begun to process that my brain is in like, what is survival mode in the first three months look like? Like, how are we going to physically do this? That is where my brain is living right now. And that's, I think one of the cool things about the way that we balance each other is that I don't, my brain isn't 10 years ahead of us. And yours This and that helps us in several ways.

I hope so. It doesn't help my nerves. That's for sure. But, but yeah, I think I think it does help. But we do have that interesting kind of push pull in our relationship.

Yeah, you think about? Yeah, Where are the kids going to go to college now figure out how to change a diaper. And then we'll teach each other. And so I'm in go to handle that

other. We're good here. shacking the parenting box, boom. So, Tina, we do a segment in this show that I would like to do with you right now. And that segment is called things that you didn't know about me that you are now glad you did. You do you did you do? Here's something you need to know is that I'm not good at grammar, and the name of the segment of the show changes every single time. But the premise stays the same. And that's maybe all that matters. So you and I will share some random facts about ourselves. And then yeah, just just some just some random things just to kind of lighten the mood a little bit if you will. For sure you go first. All right, I'll go for Absolutely. What when I was younger, ie high school, I had a crush on any girl that wore Victoria's Secrets Love Spell perfume.

I knew that about you. And hearing you tell the world better. It was worth it. Yeah. 100% I knew that about him because I walk past Victoria's Secret at a mall once and I to which I responded that guy

calm down awkward these yells. I mean, first of all, I wear Britney Spears get it together, but that's not the point. I'm 468 years ish. I played the oboe contract. You played the oboe. Why did you Why did you decide to play the oboe? Yeah, no. Yeah.

In sixth grade, at least that's what it was for us. They were in music class, you get to try all kinds of instruments. He's tried the strings and you get to try the horns and you try woodwinds and try to figure out what you want. And we got to hold an oboe and somebody played it for us. And they said, but don't worry. Nobody chooses the oboe. You either start on the flute or the clarinet and you eventually get to an oboe, but no sixth grader starts on an oboe. I like an oboe, please give me the oboe.

So, my birth family. There's a reason that's a squeaky and 12 year olds should not learn. Like the above there is a reason. But it's my mom especially as a survivor and that although my little sister's here commenting so she's got some thoughts about that. Oh boy growing up. But yes, I played the oboe because somebody told me that I couldn't. So that's it.

Yeah, see previous comments about her not being told what she can and can't do. Double read double the trouble. You know? That's here imagine all right work. I'm working. I were working Everything over here Don't worry about fun fact about me. I played the trumpet. Now my brother Brian is a world class trombone player. It was in the number one marching band in the country and was like number one trombone in said band, and like really was crushing it with the trombone. Yeah, boy, was last seat in the mediocre band in high school and trumpet Much to the chagrin of my father. And I'm sorry, dad. Yeah, that's a practice makes perfect. not practicing makes terrible. And so I went on that side of it. But here's the thing, everybody literally, I had a buddy of mine who now works for NASA, who now works for NASA. He broke his he broke his foot or leg or foot playing football. And, and so he was number two chair like number like, all the way on that side. He he has a fancy silver trumpet. Oh, yeah, you know. So anyway, so, but he broke his leg. And so now he couldn't walk all the way across the risers on these crutches. And so he sat down with me, that's where he and I really became good friends. Oh, my God, and and he was like, Yo, this is so much fun down here. He intentionally blew his audition. He and I hung out the last two seats and trumpet and had a great time.

Of course he did. Yeah, yeah. That's perfect. That's fair. And I now know that story. There. It is. Fun Facts about me. I have two tattoos. And I still have my tongue pierced.

Two tattoos and you have to tap into two tattoos. Can you show the people the one on your inner arm? I can. Because the other one

you're not flooded with on my foot. And I can't do that most of us are pregnant, but I also don't think I could do it. If I tell people about this one. Ah, this one says nevertheless, she persisted. And it is in my mother's handwriting. And my sister has the same one.

That's beautiful. Yeah. You love it. You love Sure.

To more plant at least one with my other my sister so well. I mean, we got to celebrate our RBG celebrated. Yeah, for sure. I do not have any tattoos. I have thought about getting my grandfather's signature I was named after my grandfather. That'd be my fun fact. My grandfather's James Taylor, not the singer. But it turns out we do love the singer. Yeah. And mom saying Rockabye sweet baby James to me growing up, insert the aha moment here. And but but my grandfather is my hero. He rose up to being second in command of the NYPD. He helped bring down Son of Sam he was there for the the Harlem riots, the subway fires and live these iconic New York moments. And beyond that he just was a man who did the right thing. Always. And he's just an incredible truth, the definition of lead by example, humble man, and so I thought about getting his signature tattooed on my forearm. And that's the closest I've ever come to a tattoo is thinking about that. Well, you do it. I don't think so. I don't think I'm not sure. I don't know. I oscillate back and forth. I don't need it. But yeah, it's not one of those things where like, I need this Oh, my life would be incomplete without it. Well, sure. But if we had that thought process well we shop for furniture. Our house let's talk about furniture shopping, right? Where we are large Americans plus size folks needs quality expensive.

I'm not disagreeing I'm just saying the fact that the The reason is I don't need it is not normally a reason something doesn't happen in our household. That's not typically let's not get into this. Okay.

Alright, let's jump back in Tina. So um, so what is what is one thing that you are excited to teach your child? That's that ask what is one thing you're excited to teach your childtakes us low step. perfectly timed.

So I can tell the story, please. I'm a professional speaker. After all. When I was seventh eighth grade. It was really trendy to have your initial your first initial on a necklace. You know this is true because now it's coming back because it was true in the 90s. And now it is fashion again to have your initial and so I told my mom for Christmas. All I wanted was a T to put on a necklace and to wear my initial around my neck like all the cool girls who also wore Britney Spears perfume. That's all I wanted. And then Christmas came and there was a little tiny box with a charm underneath it underneath the tree with my name on it. This is my ticket. I'm gonna be popular now. And I opened it on Christmas Day. And it was a K. boiler alert.

My name is not Christina. Nor does it start with a gay. There's not a K initial in any there's not a K in my name. And there's a lot of letters in my name K is not one of them. And I was so confused, and tried really hard not to be a dick. But my brain is Like what? Like, my one job, it was to know that I needed to tell you I initial and I said I wanted my initial Bs, my first initial is your first initial. So like, how did we miss this here? And so I just looked at her confused, it was said it's okay. And you know, this is returning to the point that my mom's an incredible human being she said, some version of Tina. We don't need any other reasons in our life to think of ourselves. We think about ourselves every day. What we need in our lives are more reasons to think about other people. And so the K stands for kindness. Because every time you would touch it and think of yourself, I would rather you touch it and think about being kind to other people.

Wow, thanks, mom. Got it. live lesson on lock cheeses. So that word means a lot to me. kindness, and kindness is different than being nice. And kindness is different than doing the right thing. Right? kindness is about treating people with love and respect. And I'm telling you that I'm going to get our child a charm with the wrong letter on it to teach some massive point on Christmas morning at 6am. But like, the idea that if you are going to interact with humans in this world, you should do it with kindness.

I'm excited to teach our kid that. That's beautiful. That's really beautiful. What about you? Oh, answer the question. That's just slow down here. Well, I think the first thing that I will teach Scott brings up a good point up here. And the first thing that I will think teach our kid is that it is Duck Duck. Duck, duck, gray duck, duck, duck, gray duck. No. Yes, Scott. You can't no one knows. No one else knows. Can you explain Duck Duck gray duck, because there's only one state that does this.

Let me pause for a second. We're still coming back to what lesson you'd like to teach our child. A lot of tries to convince your guests to move on and then they don't come back. I'm not a guest. I live here. So we'll come back to that. Game Duck Duck gray duck is a game played by children everywhere just named wrong in other places.

In Minnesota, we call my whole life It has been Duck Duck gray duck. And then I remember traveling someplace else than her little kids with goose goose. You're playing the game. Rog, your six year old sucks, though is growing with one game he's playing. And then I don't know why I had my theories. I don't know why it is so great. I can Minnesota. I genuinely don't you put dennis campbell if there's propaganda, I genuinely believe it is because just because he's a great duck doesn't mean he's not a duck. He still belongs with the rest of the ducks. He's just a different color and still matters. We're teaching race relations here to small children in Minnesota. That's not true. But it would be how dope would it be if it was true. But then when we play the games, instead of saying we go Duck Duck and then you go purple duck grew green duck and then you'd like trick these kids down? They think they're gonna get caught. I think you're saying gray duck but you're saying green or gray but it's so much more fun this way. It's Duck Duck gray duck.

We'll see. I guess we'll come back to that conversation. Clearly we're not ready great. While we wait, why don't you tell us what less than you'd like to teach our child? Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, right away. Yeah. Just really quick. During the middle of your great story, how much more fun does that sound to play back to a great egg? so much more fun? Don't answer I know the answer. I've come from an efficient part of the country. We don't need these extra syllables. That is the word I would use to describe me markers. That is true. With that being said, What is something that I am excited to teach our child I am excited to teach our I'm excited to teach our child that it is more important. To do what is right than to be right. I'm excited to teach your job more and that is more important to, to do what is right than to be right. And that comes from a number of different places for me. I think that one thing that I've noticed, first off, what's happening a lot in our society is that, you know, the echo chambers of social media and with race relations and with what, whatever the hell is happening with the Supreme Court, and politics and all of that kind of stuff. Individuals are more interested in, in being right than they are what is right. And we can tell that in the way that they don't listen to each other. We can tell it in a way that like it goes back to like Bernie browns, one of Bernie Browns favorite quote that I know you love also, and that's people are hard to hate close up. Right? I love that Bernie brown quote, people are hard to hate close up. And and so in order to do what is right, we have to raise someone who is passionate about hearing other people's stories, and learning them and saying, maybe that is your truth, right? Because so many individuals are out here like, well, black lives. Why? Why are black lives matter? Black people. So out here with the Black Lives Matter thing, what's going on with them? That's crazy. Of course, they matter. They're in this country. And it's because no one has ever lived their truth. And so and so it's just like that they just, it's immediately disregarded, because it's not a part of your truth. So why would anybody else have why would anybody else have it as a part of theirs? Right, and that is unacceptable. And so the idea of trying to raise someone who is interested and learning multiple angles, and cares about everybody, regardless of what they think, and knows that disagreements doesn't mean we need to hate or cancel people. It just means maybe that we need to listen more or ask more questions. I think that is what I want. And a lot of that kind of boils down. You know, you came down to kindness. And I love kindness. I think this falls under that, for sure. Glad to hear we're not way off. Phew, kindness of God, here we go. Right. But for me, my father, my father imparted a lot about respect. And I talked about this in the Lloyd alquist episode. And my father taught me a lot about what respect is and why it is important and why it matters. And so if you do not listen to someone, then you will never respect them. But it is important that we have respect for other individuals. And so I think that's what it comes down to, for me respect someone enough to listen to them, to acknowledge them as a fellow human being who has a different path to this exact moment right now in this store. And this meeting, in this office in this plane, whatever it is, fellow human being fellow traveler. You know, Tell me your story. Sure. And so I think that's that's one thing I'm hoping to do.

I love that. Renee brown lullabies to the kid out they want Daring Greatly is the right place to start. Too much too fast.

Huh?

I think Yeah, we'll just jump right into daring.

Yeah. For sure.

Yeah, that's it. You got shit all over yourself. Let's talk about shame. All right. This is a good time to bring up shame. Look at yourself, clean yourself up. I love that. Tina, what do you think about? As we mentioned earlier, you're a badass entrepreneur. And extremely successful. You talk to other women about why women need women in your pregnancy, in your pregnancy? What has been the role of other women in your journey so far? in pregnancy and pregnancy? Yeah. That's fascinating question.

It's this has been an area and full disclosure that it's been difficult to practice what I preach, because what COVID is part of it, right? But normally, we'd be on the road, right? And so meeting people going out with people being in restaurants, like if I didn't order a drink, you'd be like, hang on. Right. And so I think, closed off a part of our network. Yeah. For me, a lot of the women I'm close to don't live right here. Many of them live out and about. And so I think being quarantined, made it feel difficult to let people in but also because of the trauma that we've experienced. And because that's returned to it too dramatically, but telling people that knew we were pregnant, and then we had to explain the loss that was really challenging, right that made the whole thing so yes. And so it felt safer to keep it close. And it felt safer to not talk about it to, to get like, this was like our little secret in our little apartment. And that was it. And so there weren't a lot of people, period that I or we let in early. And for me, not a lot of women that I let in early. There were some women that I had been on my fertility journey with. Okay. And so those women played huge parts in in that process, right, trying to get pregnant. But even that's complicated, then like one of you crosses the finish line and right, and then that's hard and shitty, and weird and awkward and difficult. And so beautiful. Right? Like, yeah, yes. Someone

had to be first.

Yes. Yeah. Just Just sensitive. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And so for me, I think it once again, this is a theme here took your encouragement for you to suggest or, you know, I let I have these two women in my life that I talked to every week. Hi, Jess. Hi, Andre. I know you're watching. I talked to Justin Aubrey once a week. Yeah. And they're two of my closest friends. And we were like 1011 weeks into the pregnancy. And you kept asking like, are you going to tell them? And it felt really scary to let them in? Because it's scary. period to let anybody in, but especially given everything that we've been through? Yeah. So then one day I did. And since then, they have been two of the biggest advocate,

cheerleaders

cheerleaders, like front row seats, like how big is the baby this week, right. And so I think between those two women, and then my family, my sister, and my mom, and my family, on your side, my mother in law, and my sisters in law on that side of the family, so my family, women, and then my two of my closest lady friends, Elizabeth, to somebody that I learned really early and has been checking up on me. So yeah, there's been a small circle. And once I let those women in, it's been incredible. To have their support and their curiosity.

That's a cool word to describe it. Yeah,

yeah. Just like what's going on in your body this week? Let's talk about it. Because it's crazy. And so that has been really special. And I'm really grateful for that. But it took me took me a minute to get there. Even though I tell women to let women in literally every day, it's taken some time.

Sure. I mean, the things that we teach are, I mean, they're beautiful, right? So I know them to be true, because they do work. But that doesn't mean that we just jump in. Right? Now we still have, I mean, I still have a ton of insecurities. I still write I mean, I talk about authenticity and vulnerability. And I'm petrified of making friends here, because I think that they're gonna think I'm weird, right? That I care too much about that kind of stuff. And that, or whatever it is, right? That they're just not going to that it's going to be too much or too whatever they want. They have different expectations for friendship. And so either way, I guess what I'm saying is, is that is that the fact that you did it, though, is incredible, right? Now, because it's Yes, it would be amazing if all these people left our speeches, and then immediately started doing the things. But that's not the way it works. Now, it goes back to what we were talking earlier, where you and I are professional seed planters. And we've both received emails, DMS or whatever, from people. Three years from three years ago, they were like, Hey, you said a thing to me once. And turns out it was right. And it's a beautiful thing right now. But yeah, that's awesome. That was just one thing I guess I've never asked you about that is in thinking about what you teach How're you know, what does that look like here? And how does it feel? Now? So I really appreciate your answer.

It's been cool to practice what I preach. Right? Like I've been, I don't know that I've been teaching the pregnancy part of it because I talk to a lot of college age women. And so pregnancy feels a little bit. Not right where their brains are at many of them generally speaking, but to teach them about in quarantine in COVID, in this really shitty unclear time in our lives, the moments where I have taken the risk to let women in an answer the phone call, because Elizabeth calling me again, because she's just once to care about me, or to schedule the time to talk to Justin Aubrey or to FaceTime my little sister, right? Like every time one of those things happens. I feel better. Yeah. Like, there are times where like, I'm on the couch, and I'm tired. And it's like 9pm. And I'm like, I don't want to talk to somebody. No, I don't have FaceTime. I don't I'm not interested in doing this. But I don't want to let those people down. So I get on FaceTime, and I have two hour long conversations that make me feel amazing. And every time it's like, oh, this is why we do this. This is why I teach this and then to be able to teach those things. have examples to the women I work with and have to be like quarantine real life right now examples has been helpful to reaffirm those messages in my own brain and then helpful to teach them more effectively to the other people that I get to talk to. Yeah.

That's cool. Yeah. I have one last question for you. And it's actually along the same line that we're talking about right now. Just extra money. I talked about this, where you just talked about that. If she feels like she is 10% ahead of somebody, then she can turn around and help them. Right. I talked about how like mentors in my life are often three years out. For me. They're not like these icons of the field. They're three years out from me, because they're breadcrumbs that they have left for me having disintegrated yet, right. I'm watching the moves they make I'm watching them actively try when succeed, fail, and pick themselves up and keep moving. Right. And so you're not done with pregnancy yet? No.

We got a little bit of time, we got a whole bunch of stuff to buy. We're stuffed as a tiny little person need to survive, unfortunately. Yeah. So So here's my last question for you. If you were going to turn around to somebody who has just found out that they were pregnant, what would you now? What would you turn around? And how would you help them? With what you have experienced so far? I know it's great.

First of all, there's like the my like, I'm still angry that the world lies to women about their body answer. Sure. Yeah. Which is like the number the shit they don't tell you. The show that nobody tells you until you're pregnant. And then all your friends who have had babies are like, Oh, my God, let me tell you, and they just like lay it all out on the table. And it's like, What? How am I 33? And just learning that this is what's about to happen to my body like? So. Part of that is women in general need to start talking about pregnancy and childbirth and all of the things without feeling shame about it, because turns out it's a freaking beautiful process. And the way we like populate the planet casual, no big deal. Women are superheroes. And we should probably discuss that out loud more often.

But take my like Angry pregnant person answer and put that in my pocket for a second. I think I would say two things. And one of them is quick, because it's exactly the question that you just asked me, which is, pregnancy can be lonely. Like, I have a partner, who is very involved, very curious. And who is at this point very used to me sharing all of what's happening. Because I refuse to go through this by myself. And still, there's just stuff going on in my body and my brain, my hormones in my heart and my spirit that James can't understand that even if James were a woman, I don't know that he could understand unless he was or had been pregnant. So pregnancy can feel really isolating, and really lonely, because all these things are happening to you. And it feels like they're only happening to you. Right? Absolutely. And so you need people. So like having friends who haven't yet had babies that are super curious about what's happening to my body makes me feel a little less alone and a little less crazy. talking to other women who have had babies and we're like, oh, like dead pageant, who's here right now. It was like Tina, new chiropractor.

She was right?

Oh my god, I need a chiropractor. And so like having somebody who's been through it, it's really easy to like wall off, especially because the first trimester is scary. It's really easy to be like, I'm keeping this to myself. Yeah. But how much better was my pregnancy for me once I started to let people into it, even from a really scared place. But if you have people in your life that you can be scared around. It's better to be scared with people and scared alone, I guess. So don't be here to do it alone. It's lonely, but you don't have to do it alone,

especially in a world that is constantly telling you that you need to perform, especially as a woman, right? I mean, women are told that you're supposed to show up look flawless, behave perfectly, stay in line and keep it together. don't crack anything, right? And don't show it like you're just supposed to show up having an all together which is extremely, extremely wrong.

And your body is supposed to go through hell and we're never supposed to talk about it. Right? Like we don't talk about periods. We don't talk about PCs. We don't talk about endometriosis that there's so many physical things that women go through that they have to suffer through in silence because you have to go to work and perform with a smile on your face. And it's like, women need women to talk to you about it. And whether she's pregnant or not, or has any interest in being pregnant. It's still better to do it with somebody else, and to try to shed some of that perfection crap and get it out of the way. So that's the first thing that I would tell somebody is even before you're out of the Wasn't your first trimester? Because turns out things can still go wrong. You need community. Oh,

then you're out of the woods yet? Oh, yeah, that one's good. Oh my god.

This is genuinely his favorite Taylor Swift's right to use with any people in your life more than just your partner, you need some humans in your life. That's the first thing I would tell somebody. And the second thing I would tell somebody is, just because we're pregnant doesn't mean body shaming doesn't still exist. Okay? Does it mean body image issues don't still exist. In fact, pregnancy can exacerbate a lot of the things that we already have been taught to think about our bodies. And so to be cognizant, that your body's changing and to try the things you follow on Instagram, the way that you intake, what the world is telling you, you're supposed to look like, as a woman in the world, but then as a pregnant person in the world, because a very specific thing, right? And so even though your body is doing this amazingly powerful, badass thing, you still have moments where you feel like shit in your body. Because the world wants women to function in the body, because then turns out they participate in capitalism and biology. They don't even go on diets that don't work. But again, a whole nother podcast. So things are gonna happen to your body, and it's going to change, it's going to change the way you look, feel. Talk about your body. And I just wish somebody had told me that. I don't have a cure for you. I don't have an answer for you. I would just tell you to be prepared for that. And that when you're ready to talk about it,

I'm ready to yell with you. That's what I would say. Yeah.

That was beautiful. I cannot thank you enough for sliding into the diner. I don't think I really slide into a booth for for greasing, open getting here on the diner. I it is it's always an honor to hear the way your brain works. And so thanks for coming and wanting to hang out with us here in the diner. Hope you'll hang out if people had some questions would you be willing to do if people have questions about you and I and our relationship or about what you spoke about motherhood? Or I'm obviously you talk to women about why women need women? if people have questions about any of those things, are you down? You're down? I'm pretty shy. Okay. Folks. love to answer your question. It has been incredible having you here for those of you that are listening on the podcast. Thank you so much for coming out and kicking it with me in the diner, my friends. As always, if you would like to hear the q&a with Tina, please make sure that you go onto my YouTube channel, type in James T Robo on YouTube and it'll come up you can find today's episode there. And feel free to jump in as there as well. If you need to leave us now podcast listeners. you so much for coming through. Y'all have a great night. Thanks for listening.