Practicing Assertive Optimism with Former Band Geek and Extreme Meetings Emcee, Brian Walter

Welcome to Diner Talks with James slide into the booth and let's have conversations we never want to end with friends we never want to leave over food we probably shouldn't be eating

My friends welcome to another episode of diner talks with James I'm James and a pumped to be here kicking it with you all. In the diner y'all what will you have today? What are you interested you want to be one of those random people that orders a steak in the back of the menu. That's fine. We got a four year ago steak and eggs Good afternoon, but a little chicken fried chicken. How you feeling? Feeling southern Great, good for you whatever you want. We got it here in the diner. We also have a large array of dusty bottles of alcohol that nobody ever orders but if you want some will dust it off for you. Don't you worry about it. Friends. I'm excited to be kicking it here in the diner with you. I have a good friend of mine, a good friend. I'm gonna call him a good friend because I'm manifesting a great friendship out of this man. But truth be told We've only met a handful of times, but every time he brings a huge smile to my face. His name is Brian Walter. He is a Seattle based extreme and C NET is a registered trademark. So don't be trying to steal anything. All right. He is the co founder of extreme meetings Incorporated, which provides customized infotainment to make meetings memorable for over 25 years he has specialized and transforming meetings from boring to exciting. building out a degree in communications from UCLA Brian has been an advertising Director award winning television and radio commercial producer, management trainer, adjunct professor at Seattle Pacific University. He's received he's repeatedly delivered for this had better be great or else clients like Microsoft, Starbucks, T Mobile and Costco casually. He's also a past Guinness Book World Record holder for being the world's for producing the world's shortest TV commercial. And he's also the past president of the National Speakers Association, an organization that I joined about four or five years ago, I think right around the time that his reign was ending. I think I saw him in his year as year of presidency. And so he's also married to his college sweetheart for 37 years. Shout out to Karen Walter. He's got two beautiful children, and a very spoiled fluffy Corgi named Roxy y'all. Brian Walter is going to bring the energy and bring the funk I'm excited for you to meet him. Let's bring them out right now Brian hey you doing

Hey there James. Great to be here at the diner

that Yes. Welcome. What are you be having?

Oh, well, let's see the I brought I brought some my own food here since it apparently is virtual. So I brought my favorite blue diamond almonds, honey roasted honey roasted, because this is as close to almond crack as you're ever going to get without having any negative side effects instead of like 7000 calories, but probably crunching it to the microphone. Maybe. Maybe I'll I'll hold off on that. But that's my current entree.

Okay, that's perfect. That's perfect. The honey roasted nut is by far the most superior of the nuts as well so yeah, I'm with the elevates

it it's like the James Beard of packaged prepackaged, you know, mass produced? Yes,

exactly. It's like the my beard of the award winning chef of the the almond world. I agree. Brian, I'm curious. You know, this show is called diner talks with James. And so if you and I were going to get together late at night at a diner in person, and so you could also take me all the way back if you don't do that kind of thing anymore. I'm wondering what is a late night guilty pleasure food order for you. You know, you're out on the West Coast, so diners aren't as prolific. But maybe you have another move that you love.

I have it to me it's similar to the question like if you could only eat one food for the rest of your life, which would somehow be good for you. Even though it's not it's somehow good for the rest of my life. I would eat mac and cheese. Mac and cheese. There's something about it is to me the ultimate comfort food. I mean, it's positive. And she's in a girl and it's warm. And it's it's like to me that is the that is my food happy place. Yeah. Much to the chagrin of any nutritionist I've ever talked to. Yep,

yeah. Well, they can go for a walk. This is the diner

serve health food and healthy food. I mean, she'd say healthy they serve comfort food. Yeah. So I would go right to the mac and cheese on any menu.

I love that. I love that now are you in the mac and cheese world? There's a couple of debates are you bread crumbs or no bread crumbs on top.

You know I am Bread crumbs fluid. See You know, wherever you go, I can I can go either way, and so I can adapt to whatever environment I'm in. But I will not judge those who prefer one way or the other. I'm, I'm a zealous moderate. At a time of hyper partisanship, I go both ways.

What? What does that even mean? That means you listen to both sides Hang on a second. I don't know if that's allowed me more.

I guess I eat both sides. I don't really know that symbolically what that means.

But yeah, that's fair. That's fair. I appreciate that. I love it. Because what I'm hearing you say is that nothing will get in the way of my mac and cheese than that. And I appreciate that the focus is the glory of whatever is underneath the top layer. And so I appreciate that and respect the mac and cheese is definitely one of my favorite food groups as well.

I think it shouldn't be I didn't see it in the food pyramid growing up, but I'm sure that's an oversight.

I'm sure Yeah, exactly. They just missed it. I think. Brian, I know that you currently live in Seattle. Great town. And are you are you born and raised west coast? Where did you Where did you come to us? Where do you like

I grew up in Southern California within sight of the fireworks of Disneyland at 9:15pm every night.

Wow. Okay, so where are you in Anaheim?

Actually a little a little city in Orange County which is near and home but I was in a little city called Villa Park. Okay. should technically be via park a or vija park a but no, we went Val Bella Park and yeah, I could see the fireworks from Disneyland from my house and so I had the whole Southern California growing up experience No, I was not a surfer No, I did not have wonderful blonde hair back in the day. But you know, but the other Southern California things I got to experience growing up

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you gotta love the way we Americans have taken so many beautiful potential words and just been like now we're not going to call it that. My one of my favorite is verse sales Kentucky definitely never sigh here in Kentucky. It is.

That's kind of sad in a funny sort of way. Yeah,

exactly. Exactly. Okay, yep. And we fade like Homer Simpson into the bushes. So growing up in in Villa Park. Yeah. Tell me Tell me about your childhood. Do you? Are you an only sibling? Or do you have you have an only child I should say or do you have siblings?

I do have an older sister who I did not at Oh get along with growing up and it wasn't until we became adults that we actually liked each other now we're very close. So I guess if you had to choose I guess it's probably better to start better than and great because you're an adult longer than you're a child. But the deal was you know, I was I was small I was not athletic and my sister was a stud at I've been she was like the first like what the you know, the title nine were like maybe we should spend money on girls sports too. So she's a softball star everything athletic she'd want to play catch with me and I was never good enough. And so So I grew up with like, my sister. But I quickly because I wasn't good at the athletic prowess side of things. I was a band geek, James. Oh, yes. As a very sexy instrument. Did you play Brian? I played the trombone. That's right, because name all your favorite trombonist. Okay, that was the shortlist. Okay. But yeah, I was abandoned gig. But that was the era of like Earth, Wind and Fire mu, you know, winter window. I mean, we, you know, suddenly brass was cool to several of us. And so yeah, I was a band aid marching band, Concert Band, jazz band. There was one time in high school, I realized that four out of my seven classes were music classes.

Wow. That's kind of cool that you were able to do that.

Yes, I don't know if it was smart, but I did.

I mean, you got into UCLA, she did something good enough. But yeah, that's, that's a credit. My brother was also a trombonist and on a play and went all the way and actually played in a marching band in college as well, like went went deep into the trombone world. So I have a lot of respect for trombonists

you and seven other people. I'm just glad that I was allowed to procreate. I mean, really? I mean, that's just

but here's the thing about the trombone. Is that a trombone? I mean, yes, it's it's a funky wonky instrument. But now when you hear a trombone, like if you're walking around New Orleans and you hear a trombone, you're immediately happy. There is just something I don't know. It just is the sound of it the its ability to do all the sliding and everything and you just do things that other instruments can't do. And I think it just brings people joy. It's like a, it's like a toy plus an instrument. And people are like, I got it.

Toy plus instruments. I like that. The thing I liked about the trombone was it's an approximate into instruments. You know, it's a close enough instrument. I mean, like I briefly played trumpet and you like, you have three different combinations here, or you've got, you know, flute or clarinet, there's like, 19 different drum on you were at about that's close there. I mean, like, you just get close. And that's good enough.

One of the five positions good enough. Yeah, that's awesome. I played the trumpet. And not well, mind you, not well, but I played it. And it was one of those things where I mean, you know, this is someone who was more proficient at their instrument than I was, you got to practice. And I just didn't find the joy in practicing and getting better. I had a lot of fun all the way down at the end of the third section, just making jokes. At one point, that conductor threw the wand at me, because, you know, this whip just popped it out of my eye. Yep. For sure. Yep. The lawsuit settled. I'm good. I'm doing great. But yeah, the so yeah, I mean, I would just once a once a wise, as always a wise ask then. So that that was my role in the band. And once I had one of my best friends, Steve, he played the trumpet really? Well, he was always first or second year, he was one of those fancy guys, the boat, the silver trumpet, you know, yeah, you know that. And that's how good he thought he was. And but one point he heard is, he like, broke something in the bottom of his leg, now playing football. And so we sat down with me at the end, and he had so much fun. That's when auditions came around next time he intentionally bombed the audition. So we could just hang out in the last couple of chairs and just have a good time. So that's my brass experience. Yes.

Well, I was funny enough, because part of the reason you didn't do well at trumpet, that's not the right instrument for you. Because here's the like, there were their physical types. And it's like, when you think of it, it's like, okay, trumpets are the fighter pilots of the band. They're small, young, cocky, like, why can you hire them? I mean, they're just, you know, hockey. you're a bigger guy. It's like, you should have played beret, or something like that, or brass. Or it's like, even better, Barry sax, I could see you play the sax in a jazz band. It's like, it's like nine feet tall, and you can get down and down. That would have been your instrument. In fact, I got so good at recognizing types. I remember, I was in college in the UCLA marching band. And we did an event at Disneyland, of course, because in Southern California is what you do. And so we met up with another band. And so there's like, you know, five or six of us, and, you know, seven or eight of them. And I mentioned this that, like there's types so they, you know, yeah, prove it. And so, I went through and I said, Okay, you play this, this, this, this and this. And I got six out of eight, right? Wow. Just by looking at your blonde and attractive you play flute. Okay, there you go. It's like, okay. And you sir, you're clearly having substance issues. You're a drummer, okay.

It was great. People felt red and got a little counseling session at the same time. That was great for everybody. Yeah. That's awesome. And I agree. I mean, it's funny that you mentioned Barry Sachs because that is one of my favorites. instruments that I love to hear. Like I enjoy I listen to a lot of hip hop and whenever there's that Barry sax sound in a beat. I'm like, Yes, let's go so yeah, you're right. You

know if time travel becomes possible, and you go back in time and you wish to change your childhood, Barry Sachs berries

and that's the only thing I'm changing. We're just gonna see where that takes me. As a scientist, I can only change one variable. So

the choices yep, I like that one.

Yeah, no, yeah, I definitely wouldn't choose to improve my self esteem. What so? The the fact that you were banking is awesome. Now. Did you? Did you also did you play in any bands? Like you know, you mentioned that you were at a time where Earth Wind and Fire big bands are still are still doing their things at that time. and whatnot. Did you Did you play any bands outside of school as well?

Yes, basically, I joined everything now. Interesting. You said thing about practicing. Like, here's the interesting thing I didn't like to practice by myself because that is a solo experience. And you and I both being raging extroverts. It's like How do you punish extroverts you make them go into the room by themselves. Yep. So, so but to get better, you have to like, play all the time. And so my solution was play all the time. I didn't practice but I played multiple times every single day. So I joined everything I played every band, I was in the marching band. I was in the Concert Band, I was in the orchestra and I was in a jazz band just with my high school. But then I joined a local college band, I volunteered for a junior high to play in the band for their plays. You know, I again, basically anything that came up, I joined I was part of the American us symphony and toured Europe, I joined a church group called the overtones and I didn't even know what an overtone was when I joined. And so basically, I joined everything. So I was constantly playing, I was constantly social in groups, and that was my world. Yeah, the world of your about third row from the back behind the trumpets, and doing things that irritate them. That was my world.

Yeah, popping them in the head. Every once in a while.

We had our squirt bottles, remember. So you have a slight trauma, you have cream on your slide. And you have you have this little squirt bottle? Do you keep it loose? Well, you can just that you have now a stream of water, which you can peg people in the back of the head.

Yep. And let alone the spit valve. Yeah, for sure. Plenty of things you could do really with the trombone, very versatile. That's awesome. Now, here's the thing about me as an extrovert, and I don't know if this would relate to you as well. So feel free to push back on it or agree whichever one you're sitting with. But as an extrovert, I've often found that, you know, I also absolutely love to be around people. But there's a question that I sometimes ask myself, it's like, what am I what am I running from? And I want to be like, what is it about being alone? That is so draining for me? What am I avoiding? What am I all that kind of stuff. And I remember, this came out a lot for me, especially in high school, like where most problems come from. So this came a lot for me out of that where, you know, whenever I would get back to school after a weekend, and people be like, Oh, we were all hanging out this weekend. I'm like, Oh, cool. I've sat around and doing it, no one called me. And I remember that affecting my self esteem a lot. Now where it would be like, Oh, you all were hanging out and I wasn't. But you say that I'm funny. And you like me? Whenever we're hanging out. So like, what? Why don't you remember me in the moment when it's like, Hey, we should invite James to. And so this affected my self esteem wildly. And so that was something that I know, being around people being around people, it gave me something to do it maybe not have to sit in the silence that I didn't like. And so it kept me just in keeping my hands busy and keeping my mind busy. I therefore didn't have to face a lot of what was actually potentially going on in my head and the stillness of it. Is that something that you ever felt or totally fine. I'm happy to be alone on this. But I'm wondering if you in retrospect, as you look back at it, is that something that potentially was going on for you?

Oh, absolutely not. Not bad. Okay, a couple of things here on that one is, again, we humans, we are such complex creatures. Yes. And, and I think there's different ways. I mean, we all have our mental health issues and our challenges and our how are we developing our self esteem? And another way to look at it is that from what do you derive your energy, your personal energy when you are your most engaged self? What's happening? I sense with you and I, it's like, we're with people and we're riffing off people in the situations because we like to be improvisational, even more so than me. And it's, it's far better for us to interact with and it's again, it's harder to do that by yourself. And now we may or may not have issues being by being alone, but it's like when your happiest thing is interacting with people, then yeah, being by yourself isn't as fun now, and now we can be clinically not good, are you? So again, you could have issues by being yourself, but in general, people, even introverts don't like isolation. I was listening to this. Oddly enough. I was listening to his podcast last week. And it was this psychologists, neurologists person, and they were talking to this old study that they did and this was when was probably during the 70s or 80s. They took people into a room I'm sure they were college freshmen because you know, but you know, they took random people into a room, no stimuli and all in the room and they said it's like okay, here is a bar buzzer there is a shock on it. So I want you to get to like, okay, like enough like Ouch. Like, okay, just wanted you to know that there's a buzzer there. Okay. So here's the deal. We just need you to sit in this room by yourself for half an hour. And then they left. And the nothing to read. This is pretty phones, nothing. What did a huge percentage of people do James?

Oh, they press that buzzer

causes pain and people are so uncomfortable with just being, you know, the silence that it's like they will shock themselves. I don't think it I don't think they classmate with extroverts or introverts. So I think there's two things going and I do think that there is the sense that you're talking about being with ourselves, and our own thoughts. And the silence is something that I think many people struggle with. I don't think it's necessarily just extroverts, though, and I look at as a positive thing, which is, when I'm with people, I get to be my best self. And that's why I seek to be with people.

Yeah, it was beautifully said. That's beautifully said. Yeah, I, I agree that it's not just necessarily an extrovert thing, the silence, silence kills all. But yeah, but it's interesting. I mean, I don't know if you've noticed, as you have, as you've grown up, there's some some extroverts sometimes become a little less extroverted as time has gone on. Have you noticed that for yourself at all? I mean, you were still an extrovert, obviously, but But have you noticed that you have begun to appreciate more, the smaller group time or the alone time or anything like that? Oh, absolutely.

I think it's called getting older. Which I in turn, is that's a much the chronological thing, but the we, I hope we get wiser we get more of a sense of our self because like, I look at my journey of, you know, when I started out, I was a people pleaser. If someone didn't like me, that was equivalent to a crime against humanity. I mean, how could you not like me? And I was physically hurt, like, oh my gosh, like five people like me, this person doesn't, how can I make this person like me? What do I need to make? And there is a, there's a vulnerability or steam issue or something driving that. And so I noticed as I got older, it's like, okay, I went from a people pleaser to it's like, well, I don't need to please everybody, just most people, and it's like, okay, and then I can be myself. And most people will like me, and that's enough. And then it's like, you know, I am who I am. And people are gonna get me or they're not. And then later, it's like, okay, I'm okay with not everybody liking me. And that doesn't mean I still like being with groups. But then we I think, as we grow and do things and accomplish things, and fail and recover, I think the interpersonal relationships become even more important. And so the smaller group here, and in some ways, your diner talks are a perfect example of this, which is like you don't need a group of five. Now again, imagine five people in a diner. But you know what, you're super happy with this program you've created interacting with one other person who's hopefully interesting. Reflection of getting older.

Yeah. No. Yep. I, that was well said as well. I think that it has been an interesting process for me. And I think also, the one thing that I'll add on to what you said, because I agree with it. With what you said, One thing I'll add on to it is that I think we also as we get older, understand the value of time. And so who is worth our time, who is worth that energy, who is worth? That kind of stuff. And that has been? That's been that's kind of the way that I have been thinking about it as my extraversion, though still running rampant, has slightly wavered from time to time, is it's who who deserves who deserves my time. And as someone who also has an Achilles heel, or hat on Yes, I still have it, you've potentially worked through at least some of it now the Achilles heel of desperately needing to be liked by people. That is, that is sometimes an interesting balance of who is worth my time, and whatnot, because I am. I am also a people pleaser, I need everyone to like me. And that affected the way that I lead. It affects the way that I tried to make friends who right now we've moved to a new place than a new city. And I'm, you know, we're still in the process of trying to make friends right now. And that's a weird place to be because we also have a brand new baby. And we also have a, a job that takes us all around the country every day, multiple times a week. And so it's been very interesting thinking about the value of time who gets the time and what matters to us. So I'm wondering, you talked about something that was power or fool around that you said you had said that you have been working through or have worked through that idea of needing to be liked. Was that something that just kind of gradually shifted? Where you're just all of a sudden you looked around one day and you're like, you know what, I think I'm okay with most people like me instead of everyone now is, or was that a direct switch? Where like, one day you're like, you know what, I just got to do this for me. You know?

Definitely, definitely a long decade's long process. For sure me. Yeah, there was no epiphany. Laughter chapter light from heaven on my bald solar panel. Definitely a progression. I think a lot of it's a reflection of are you comfortable with your sense of self? And like one question, I'd like to ask people I'd love to questions actually. One was, at what age did you accept? This is who I am. Meaning that it's like, I finally felt me. Like, this was me. And for me, it was what when I was a senior in high school, that's when I think my personality and my values and my things coalesced. I said, Okay, I'm now me. Now, again, I'm still gonna continue to grow and evolve and stuff, I'm down me, but like that, that person like, Okay, I remember thinking, Okay, this is who I am. And then as you as you get older, hopefully, you have the potential to become more comfortable with yourself and your choices, and your values, and how you operate. And you care a little less on that everyone agrees with you. But there are profound things like for me, and this is this, this is, you know, Revelation to women. I know, it's you've got a lot of Black Lives Matter stuff in your background. This has been a big change. For me the last several years, as I've grappled with the concept of privilege. I'm a walking talking poster child of privilege. You know, I was, you know, I mean, it's like, and if you'd asked me five years ago, what privilege is I, I wouldn't even know I don't even know if we're really using the word privilege. Five maybe was maybe about five years ago, I remember the first time having a conversation with someone about your privilege and that privilege, I had to work for everything. And it's like, I didn't get it, which is that just showing up, you have certain advantages that others don't have. And so part of, you know, my personal recognize reckoning is I've had to realize that a lot of who I am, wasn't actually up to me. Now, don't get me wrong, you know, I'm still you know, I've had a drive for me to be me. But it's like, a lot of the earned things that I'm so proud of myself for achieving, I realize it's like, I had some huge advantages. And what do you do with that? And so, for me, it's like, I've tried to accept or be a little more humble and less cocky, in some parts of my sense of self, as I've realized, this whole aspect of privilege enters or we've had these conversations with our, you know, friends are black and other color and other backgrounds and stuff like that. And I realized, it's like, wow, it's like this whole thing of belonging and, and feeling. It's like, I rarely question that. And it's like, wow, that's a hugely different experience than so many others. So, again, it's like, we still go through different changes. And for me, like the last couple years, especially the last two have been a big change, as I've realized that certain things that I just accepted, as you know, earned, earned experience and earn stuff. It's like, well, you know, there was, there was some non, you know, non interest loans, so to speak, given to me that others didn't get.

Yeah. Yeah, that was beautifully put. The way I often think about it is that you know, those depending on what, what privilege how much privilege you had, etc, etc. As a fellow straight white male who was raised, I was raised with more than enough. And I, I call it that we got dropped off, we're all we're all climbing a mountain to our goals, Nam and those with privilege got dropped off a little bit higher on the mountain. It's not to say that we still don't have to work and still don't have to grind. And what is that? It's not all handed to us. But where we started the journey was higher up than others. And yeah, that is. That's, that's a powerful self reflection that you're doing. And I love that it happened in the, in the last, you know, five years, whatever it was that sparked it. And obviously, we have, we have the honor of getting to hang out with a lot of really cool people who speak very passionately about a number of different subjects. So it's a great opportunity for us to be around individuals who can change the way that we think now I'm in the Speaker's Association national speakers. So Jade, excuse me now, and I think that's, I don't know. I'm excited about the work that you've been doing. Now my summer who tries to do a lot of that work himself? So that that's really cool. You know, when we talked about we talked about self discovery and understanding about about yourself and learning about your about what matters to you. And, and so you were you were this band geek now through and through. But did you study that? Did you also study music at UCLA? Or did you always know that like, band is always going to be something that I do kind of more as a hobby? Or was, you know, in your own self identity exploration? What kind of back there?

Yeah, definitely don't number two, I realized that I was quite good. But not great. I did not have natural talent. I got to I wrote, I It's like the Peter Principle Easter talk with the Peter Principle, you rise to the highest level of your incompetence. And it's like, I realized, I picked it's like I'm at, I'm like, trombone first chair at UCLA marching band, and I realized, that's as high as I will ever be. And I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. And I realized that it's like, because I knew enough to recognize, you know, talent and dedication and realize I didn't have those things. And that's okay, that this can be an avocation. And not a vocation, and it's a season of my life. And I'm okay with them that having an arc, and sunsetting although I held on to the trombone for like another 20 years old, I remember my, my daughter when she was in elementary school, they had to take, you know, an instrument, so I pull out the trombone, and she's can't even reach for position and, and then after that, I'm like, Yeah, I'm just going to donate this to the local high school. It just, you know, that hinges on that area is over. You know, so to me, your music was, again, it was my social group. It was a service group, like what because again, part of being part of a group is to serve the group, and you volunteer for things and stuff. And so, but I realized that wasn't going to be me. I wasn't a gifted musician. I was like, I like to say, Are you a musician? No, I play trombone.

So what did you do? What did you What did you major in in college?

I majored in communications. And it's interesting, you're talking about your paths of difference your paths can be it's like my path in life came down to one question, one test, that the two things I cared about, I'm a big history buff, and I love history. And I read books voraciously. And my dad had been a, you know, a teacher and a principal and eventually a superintendent. And so my two paths were I taken a lot of history classes. And I was taking communications classes, and I loved both. And it was the end of my sophomore year, and I had to declare a major. And so I'm in a communications class and I came down, I said, Okay, if I get an A minus in this class, I will apply and become a communications major and see where that takes me. If I don't, I'll say that's I'll take this as a sign from God that I should go into history, and I'll become a teacher and fall in my father's footsteps. And I figured out that I got an A minus by three points, which was one question on the final one. Question. And these are multiple guests questions. And so because of that, I went to communications route that took me on a very different journey. And so that was my decision tree point, right there.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What was it about communications? Like, where were you? At that point? You know, we always make fun of communications majors where it right it's like, Oh, what, you know, what do you want to do? What majors should I be if I have no clue what I want to do? Oh, communications.

was also that the, the major that the athletes on scholarships, you know, we're getting and they would sit in the back and cheat on the test and stuff like that. So it was like it was a hard major to get in at UCLA. But once you're in, it wasn't that hard. What I liked about it, it was it. What did they call the interdisciplinary major, which allowed me is one of the few majors at UCLA where you could do that where I could, I mean, what is communication? Little English, little history, little sociology, little psychology, little little linguistics, you know, I was able to craft all the stuff that I was interested in and call it communications. Yeah. And so that was to be the Depo. I like to say I was I knew something about everything, but not everything about anything. Like, you know, I'm a two inches deep, but really why. That's what appealed to me.

Yep. Yep. As an extrovert. We love that also, because we can then talk to anybody about anything. We know enough to ask we know enough to ask good questions. Yes.

Right. Nod sagely at the answer. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Strong nod game. I wanted to compliment you on You're not getting. So you get this man, you get this major, you get this bachelor's? And then what is your journey between? I know, it's a number of years. But what is your journey from graduating? You know, flipping the tassel on the mortar board to what you're doing now with extreme meetings? Oh, yeah.

So to keep things happen in UCLA college, it's like, one is I just said, I want to get into advertising with a capital A, I don't want any of the jobs and advertising I did an internship for, you know, you know, 10 weeks for him, but I don't think about the idea of it, you know, in the 80s. Advertising is sexy advertising is cool. That's like the heyday of advertising the 80s and early 90s. So I realized I want to go into advertising. And the second is I met my bride to be Karen, Walter Kerr, and whoever at the time. And so I just she and I are in love, we want to get married. I'm a year ahead of her. And so I go to her dad, and say, you know, I'd like your permission to marry your daughter who's you know, currently a junior in college? And he says, yes, if like, what's if he goes, Oh, when you when you graduate in June, you have to guarantee that you will be a fully employed person, or you don't get the girl. Well, oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. That's basically that's how I like you. But you have to have a job. A real job. And so. So I set aside my dreams of advertising, I got the job that I could get where I went into department, that department store executive trainee, so I'm working in a department store, it was called the Broadway similar to Macy's because Now Macy's is everything. By the time they're all independent. And so I went to that, and I was on the floor, and I absolutely hated it. Oh, my gosh, did I hate it? Oh, I got an extra ready and I'm stuck in you know, like 30 square yards of comforters, lamps and pictures and area rugs. That was my kingdom. Oh, my gosh, I hated it so much. But I was interested in training, and in internal communications. And so that's a path that I was able to go.

Yeah, it's incredible. First off, shout out. Shout out to this dad. It's not not a ridiculous request, right. I've heard I've heard more ridiculous requests. But that right, like, sure you can ever you just have to be fully employed.

low bar.

But the the fact that you turn did you not think that you would be able to get a job in advertising? Is that why you're like, let me shoot low? Yes,

yes. Because the other thing was, most of the on campus interviews will move you But Karen had one more year of college. And so I could move. So I go into these anchors, on campus interviews, they start to talk to me and all he's sharp. I like he's got his answers. And so you can move right? And I'd say no. And they're like, Oh, yeah. Tell me about yourself. Like, oh, I'm not getting this job. I'm not getting this to this job. So I couldn't move. I couldn't go anywhere. And, and I didn't actually know enough to be in advertising, although I later did get in advertising. But at that time.

Yeah. That's awesome. So so how long have you worked at this department store for?

Fortunately, I only worked there for less than a year, because Karen actually graduated early. And then she got a job with Procter and Gamble, because I married very well. And they moved us to where we wanted to move, which is out of Southern California, into the wilds of Seattle, where you can actually buy a house for $100,000. And like, what? So we moved to Seattle, there and I worked on a political campaign for about a little less than a year just because I'd always wondered what that would be like, and our candidate one and they're like, Okay, you want to be part of the administration? No, I don't. I'm 23 years old, and I don't care about government. I just thought it would be fun to work on a campaign. So I got hired by a department store chain up in, in Seattle as an internal communications person as a video producer, having never touched a piece of video equipment in my entire life. Because in the mid 80s, video was, ooh, you could make a video. That sounds so crazy to us today. But that was a novel thing before only film, people could make videos, right? And now it's like, Wait, like a company could make their own video. I learned to be a video producer, even though I didn't know anything. And they did that. And then I became a trainer. And then my old boss became the vice president of advertising for the same department store and I became in advertising I got to be a television radio commercial producer in house advertising for a department store chain which I had no business doing.

A true fake it till you make it moment.

That is no Truer words have ever been said.

Yeah. I mean, here's the thing is the power of knowing people right and this is this is the power of extroverts is that we are memorable. And usually for good reasons. Sometimes for not but but yeah, the the journey of the meandering, from the department store live and back in it's so funny. That's a place where you kept coming back to, even though you talk about your first job with such beautiful disdain, it is it's enjoyable to watch how you kind of came back to it a number of times and that you came into video production, which, like you said in the 80s is no joke. I mean, it truly is. There's no over the counter option for video editing. At that point. It is a it video editing is always a skill now, but it's a very different skill back then, because there were way less machines that could do away less people doing it, etc, etc. No YouTube videos to be like, how do I? And so. So that's awesome. Did you enjoy that role? Once?

It's funny, because I got the job and my boss took me aside like, no one's around. He's like, Okay, here's, here's the deal. Let's just be honest, we realize you don't know what the bleep you're doing anything of this year, I hired you based on potential, I think you can figure it out. Don't eff up and make me look bad. You've got three months to figure it out. Pat's, me on the back very good. So I went to a video editing company. And I said, Okay, here's the deal, you will quickly find out, I don't have the slightest idea how to do this here. And so you've got to kind of train me as I spend money at your facility here. And you've got to back me up here. And when my bosses come in, and I give you an instruction, if that's the wrong thing, instead of saying, Brian, that's the wrong thing. I want you to say things like, Absolutely, we can do we can totally do that. Or do you want to do it the other way that we discussed earlier, and then do it the correct way. And I said, if you do this for me, I will bring you 1000s of dollars of business over the course of years. And that's exactly what they did. They back me up and they covered by mistakes, until I learned you know, what I needed to do.

That's awesome. Built your success and a little cya work. That's awesome. Now, at what point did you realize that hey, I can take some of this stuff and go out on my own. And I want to I want to, you know, start a business as being an MC and being a trainer being a you know, etc, etc. Was there? Was there a moment in a meeting that you went to where you're like, Wow, this meeting blows? Now I could do this differently. You're like, what, what was the transition point between those two roles being out

on your own? All right, here's, here's the journey. I'll try and give you the non four hour version. Okay, great. Yeah, I think the dynamic eventually the diner closes, they turn off the lights, they start mopping, you know, things like that. So again, I'm still working for a department store change chain, I'm, you know, at the corporate headquarters of this since you know, Seattle, and it's a decent size, it's about a billion dollar, you know, company, which wasn't, you know, tiny at the time. And you know, and so I realized that I'm now at the pinnacle. Again, that whole Peter Principle I'm not I'm the, it's like, I'm the best I'm going to be not truly being an expert in advertising. And I'm an internal advertising, which is the redheaded stepchild of advertising, internal department advertising. And I realized it's like, am I going to be great at advertising? No. Do I it is like, for me to get beyond where I am. It's like, Am I willing to put in the time and energy and the learning? Do I even care about it? It's like, No. And so I said, Okay, I'm going to leave while I'm on top of this thing, which people thought it was crazy. How could you possibly give up this job? It's like, because it's like, I look at the future. That's not my future. Yeah. And so I joined the National Speakers Association. And because during this time, when I was in advertising and things are working, I started helping out a company meetings because they were so bad. And so, you know, you know, we started sort of doing music parodies and skits and things like that, because you know, you're in your 20s or late 20s. And that's what you do. You volunteer you do weird stuff, because you know, you can be embarrassed and no one cares. Yeah. So I get hired at a training company and I I'm doing sales and marketing for the training company. And as I'm also doing a little bit of speaking and a little bit of training for them. And about a year and a half after I left at the department store chain where I used to work for they had a, a bad year from a profit point of view from a gross margin point of view. And the CEO said, We gotta get everybody in the company buzzing about gross margin improvement, if I just yell at everybody, that's not gonna work. And he goes to the Director of Training said, we have these monthly meetings with all the top people here he goes, remember that funny guy who used to work here? What's his name? Brian. Yeah, yeah, have him come back and do something about gross margin improvement. I get this call. It's like, I still remember his name I Rupa Cal wants you to do something about gross margin improvement at these monthly meetings that they have like, okay, so I put together I said, Okay, here's what I think you want me to do. You want me to create a customized gross margin variety show, that's a meeting within a meeting once a month for six months? And they said yes. Can you do that? Absolutely do that. And so what I did is I knocked off David Letterman. And so at the time, the company was called the bond for the bond marchais. And so I called it the late meeting Show with David Letterman. So I came out and what did I do? I'm copying the formula came out, I did a customized stand up routine about gross margin improvement. I did a top 10 list about gross margin improvement. Why is everybody obsessing about Monica Lewinsky instead of Liz Claiborne, you know, Bono? Like I would have musical guests, we'd have Elvis and instead of Returned to sender, it was returned to vendor, you know, and I would interview buyers who were doing things right. So I knocked off a late night variety show and I did this for six months week, the big finale was we did a parody of the musical Grease, which of course, was gross, gross margin, gross margin. Oh, John, and this was the late 90s. When it was done. I'm like, that is the most fun I've ever had in my professional life, ever. Yeah, I'd like to do stuff like that. And so in the training company, I changed it up and said, I want to do less sales and marketing and more be a service and provide this service had no idea if anyone would like that. And it turns out, they did. And so I call it discovering your magic into it. My magic is, is I'm the king of customization. I can create stuff about whatever it is we're talking about. Once I figured that out, people hired me. Now they're hiring me through the company I was working at and it took gosh, it was like, took another seven years before my wife Karen said, you know, we should spin this off and own the business ourself. And so with Karen driving it and doing it and we are a certified women owned business, Karen owns 51% She isn't CEO, I am barely the talent meat puppet.

Read that on the website. Actually. Yes, direct title.

And so so since 2007, we've on the business ourself. So that's kind of the journey and how we got there.

That's awesome. So much fun.

You're like 2007? You mean just in time for the Great Recession?

I don't want to bring it up. Based on a conversation we're having prior to getting on on air. Here, it sounds like you've had some good timing in your business.

So actually, it turned out was was good timing. Because I think when there's adversity, and here's the here's the weird thing. It's like non personal adversity. So when the great recession happened, it wasn't personal. It's like, you know, this is all about Brian. Okay, it had nothing to do with me. It's like, the global economy, especially the United States, we're host for a while. And so I used to think I used to feel like I'm a lion on the savanna and I'll take a wildebeest and a lion and Savannah, I'll take a ride up. And that's it. Now I'm a lion on the savanna. I'm looking for a squirrel. And so I remember it's like it was it was like a per February and it is February 2009. The height of the recession, the stock market is at 6000 6000. Now it's like what 2930? Something like that. I mean, and I thought what is anything I know how to do that customers in this environment will pay $500 Fine. That was my deal. What's anything I know how to do, that customers in this environment will pay $500 for and my salvation was PowerPoint. I don't know why I get a client who calls me Hey, Brian, we got a meeting coming up. So great. Greg, would you like me to come be the emcee for it? No, no, we're not having any outsiders now. No outsiders here. But why are you calling? Oh, he's like your visuals. Could you do the PowerPoint for our vice president Uh, sure, how much will it cost? $500 That's like, okay. And I, you know, delegate it to a freelancer and manage it and, you know, make 350 It's like, okay, and then they call me back the next month. Hey, you know, Brian is like we're having another meeting coming in. Great. Would you like me to come emcee? No, no, no, there's no outsiders coming in. We'd like you to do you know, the PowerPoint for all of the presenters like, Okay, how much you like us? 500 Each Great. Third month, they said, this is working out. So well. Can we sign a contract with you for the rest of the year? Yes. And then I turned to Karen, hey, congratulations. Let's shake each other's hands. We're now a multimedia company. And then I thought, Oh, maybe I should start doing video again. And multimedia. And then I combined it. So then we could, how are you going to, I can be the emcee. I could write the script, I could do the video, we could do the visuals. And I could even come on site and liaise with the AV team. And suddenly we have six streams of income, and we survived the great recession. That's awesome.

That's awesome. Yeah. You just you figure it out. Right. What do they need right now that I can do? Yeah, that's incredible. That's incredible. And that is, is? Is that also how, you know, we talked about how the meetings industry was obviously really affected because the pandemic is that, is that also kind of how you survive that time as well.

Yeah, I've got two things. One is the same approach. The other one's personal. I'll go the same approach. So when the, you know, the pandemic hit, we realized it wasn't just going to be three weeks, can you please tell me that? Well, it's gonna suck for about a month, it's fine. I have savings, you know, when it realized that it's like, okay, human beings must meet. So I will embrace this virtual thing. Because the default is for humans to be boring in meetings, that's the default, like, like, we've figured out, we can turn on a zoom thing, and we can stare at people's headshots as they talk, which is the most inefficient form of communication known to humankind. Like that's just like, our environment. So that okay, so I have to learn how to make it work from here. But again, meetings really are people talking visuals, videos, audio. That's it. I have all those skill sets. And since we survived the great recession, we'll do it again. So I wasn't worried. Because I thought that's like, okay, human beings must meet, they just need to do it virtually. Now. They're not going to not meet, they're just going to do it differently. And if I can adapt to that, because others won't others. I mean, like you and I know through the National Speakers Association, many people said it's like, oh, wait this out? Yep. It's like, oh, wait this out. Like, this is gonna go on for a year or more. It's, it's like, yes, you're, you're more so going on. But so leapt into it. And so that's the second thing is, and this goes to my personal philosophy in life, my whole philosophy in life can come down to two words. Assertive optimism. That's how I live my life. And serve optimist. I go into every situation, I presume that it's going to work out. Yeah. But I it's not like the secret. I'll just sit here. And it'll work out. No, it's sort of optimal. You have to do stuff. But as long as I do stuff, it's like and you know, what, if you believe something's going to work out and you're actively doing things for it to work out the vast majority of time, it's going to work out. And the few times it doesn't keeps you from being cocky. It's not like it's not magic. Yeah. Right. It's, it's a technique and so with that, it's like, pretty much like everything is going to work out as long as I do things and and believe that it'll work out. So when you combine those two things together, most of the times it works and it's funny because the people I talked about it, I jokingly say you're in the bubble, and in the Brian's bubble world, everything works out. And so like we're running late to the movie theater, we're gonna get there in time while the rear parking spot I go, of course, because you're in the bubble and then a parking spot opens up people only remember the times that it works out they don't remember the time it doesn't and so we'd I have this humorous reputation for things always work out. Yeah. But it's not magic. It's because you have attitude and willing to take action, but you have to believe it'll work out so because of that that's how we've been getting through COVID That's amazing.

You are also mean in the few times that we have are just really the one one main time that we've worked together you are also someone who is very meticulous about about preparation and and you know things things always work out also when you've prepared and and thought through different options and whatnot. And so that's something I want I want to give you credit for and just something I've noticed about you is that your preparation on the front end your attention to detail, which are all things that you have to have if you're going to be in video production. If you're going to be at someone who's in front of all the customization right? You got to make it all look right now you're not a Bobby I'm winging I don't write like there is, there is magic to the way that you make things happen. And some of that magic is yes, this sort of optimism approach. And some of that magic is also your ability to think through what could go wrong. And it's not like you don't sit here with a sort of optimism, like, nothing will go wrong.

It's a weird combination, you prepare so thoroughly on what you can anticipate, that allows you to embrace what you have it. Because if, to me, it's like the certain people will make a a value will make a a benefit out of not being prepared. You know, I find myself best when I'm when I just wing it. Oh, so you're too lazy to work? No, no, no, I've just found that I've given my best stuff here. It's like, Oh, so you forget all the times where you completely sucked, or you harmed others because of your preparedness, or you made them carry you it's like, so my deal is like, I like to say it's like part of what makes us professional. Will we do what others can't or won't, when it comes to preparing? Well, we do what others can't or won't. And I think that makes us professionals. Now on the other hand, though, when you aren't prepared, and you are confident of your preparation, when something happens, that you didn't anticipate. This allows you the freedom of improvisation, because it didn't happen because you're a screw up. It happens because the world is filled with entropy. Like happen, things happen. And I learned the most valuable thing from a fellow speaker who's a magician. His name is Giovanni Lovera out of Orlando, and an early in time and with the National Speakers Association, early 2000s. He was like the you had more showmanship and any person I'd ever seen in my entire life. And so I said, Hey, do you mind I'd love to hang with you. And it just watched you do your thing. He's like, sure. Flying to Orlando. I said, Well, I can't really afford that. And he's like, so what did you think what's gonna happen? If I get you some gigs here in Seattle, like some full paying gigs, can I hang with you? And he's like, yes, Brian. Feel free to get me some full paying. Me? Yes. So I did. I got me with Microsoft. I got him another you know, again with insurance company. So I got him like a series of three gigs. So I got to see him do his act multiple times. So I knew what was supposed to happen. And one one of these gigs is brings up three women and they are in the back there and he's got his little table here. He's got his cards and he's okay pick, pick, you know, a card, okay. Okay, put it back. Okay. And then he says, Do you know how to shuffle and it gives it to one and they shuffle it as many times as they want. I've seen this act does the same thing. Okay, pick the card, put it back here. Can you shuffle? Yes. And she goes, and the deck explodes. And everyone and he stops. He's looking down. And I know this is wrong. The audience can tell this is wrong. And it's like, this wasn't supposed to happen. And he's like gathering up on the floor and putting the because I don't know how magic works. But I know you'd like certain sequence. So you're criminal, you do something, but it's like throwing them on the floor. It's not supposed to work. Yeah. And so he's getting up there and he's okay. And he goes, okay. Is that your card? She goes, No, I didn't say it was your card. I just I just want to know if it was your card is your card. No, darn it. And like we're feeling for this poor guy. Here. He goes, Yeah. I'm sorry. He pulls a card as that your card. She says yes. The crowd goes. On afterwards. I was like, Gio, it's like I was so worried for you when it exploded, and he said, Brian, Brian, when something like that happens, unexpected, unanticipated. And it's obvious to everyone. He said, That's a gift from the gods. He said, the audience is so pulling for you, because they know the odds of this working out are low. But if you do, they feel more excited for you and for them than if it had not happened. He said, Hey, of course I'd already pulled the card before I gave it to her. And he said I had to hide my face from showing how thrilled I was that that happened. And so after that time, I realized that when something weird and unexpected happens that's not through lack of preparation or skill, that that's a gift to embrace. Because you can make magic happen. Because I say prepare all you can and then leave room for magic. And then the unexpected is when magic happens. Yeah.

That's how jazz has always that's how they talk about jazz, right? It's not all completely a lot of it is written but you always leave space for the magic and for the solos and for the whatever.

He was an improv artists. I mean, you think 116 years as an improv artist

approximately. And it's funny

because the end There's there's structures, there's rules, you know, you don't say no, it's like things like that. But it's like the most magical things happen. When there's a really interesting twist. It's like if, like, give us a situation. It's like a bank withdrawal from your bank. Oh, gee, thanks so much for that exciting scenario, when they say it's like a unicorn and a giraffe walk into a bar with you. Okay, so in the history of the world that has never been said before, you James are going to run with it. And something magical will happen with your improvisation skills.

With both of those, it's going to be the most exciting bank withdrawal you've ever seen in your life. Or it's going to be the most realistic unicorn. Either way, we got your back. Yeah. And that's what I was thinking while you were talking is that it is an improv. It's not just making stuff up. There are rules, you have to take classes you don't have to me technique, anybody get up there make make stuff up. But in order to make stuff up in a way that makes audiences happy and makes teams gel, it is by learning these improv rules and knowing when you can break them. So yeah, that's awesome. I think from your story, I'm also reminded that I need to keep a seven of diamonds in my cheek. So. So that's great to know, till, you know, big, big takeaway from this.

shoe that no to seven of diamonds.

I'm not a monster.

That's amazing, you know, this assert of optimism that you talked about. You mentioned earlier how you believe that you really kind of came to know who you were, and weren't done with the process of growing, but really kind of came to know who you were when you were a senior in high school? And is that is can you go back to that time and say like, I guess I always have been kind of an optimist, with everything, but my sister.

Oh, that's, that's funny. It's funny, except my sister who again, we are very close. Now. In fact, we became closer and like 20s. And then in my 40s, and 50s, you know, with Soho for long we are that. But yeah, close. So it's funny, I remember a big moment. So I had become like President of the band, you know, the volunteer president of the band in high school. And then at the end of my senior year, the band director who had been there for a long time was retiring. And so I improvised a, a speech, of how we felt about him and his contributions. And I didn't understand what in the zone was, but at that moment, I was in, you know, the zone. And then, you know, finished it. And there was, you know, with a tribute to him, you know, Mr. Coleman that did that. And I finished it, and there was this Hush. Because people had felt something, and I not like, and, and you can go now, it's like, I was like, and I remember that feeling that's like, wow, I I didn't know that I could help create moments like that, where people felt things. I remember how good that felt to be the you know, the, you know, the conduit for that and be able to say, it's like, people want to laugh. People want to feel and if I can serve them, in a way provide an opportunity for them to be that way. Wow, that that's great. And then I realized that not everybody can do that. So and to me, and it but again, it was it was a thing professionally at the time, but it was like it works when you're truly in service to others. Again, I wasn't stand up comedian was making me was talking about my story. But it's like, I enjoyed putting the attention on others, sharing things, getting them to feel and laugh. And I remember I never thinking it's like, I didn't even know I wouldn't, I wouldn't see a professional speaker for probably 15 years no following and probably like, you know, 17 years before I even knew that such a thing existed. But I remember that feeling. And then it's like, okay, I'm someone who won't shy away from coming up to a microphone and talking about what's important.

Yeah, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. And that is that is a gift. As you mentioned, not everybody can do that. Not everybody will do that. But not shying away from walking up to the microphone to talk about something that is important is a is a beautiful way to talk about what we do. And you and I do it very differently. And but at the same time that is it is our job to make people feel and it's a pretty cool it's a pretty cool role. And it's it's it's really special as well. One that I do not take for granted, I get welled up when I talk about it. And it is. It's an honor to be given that kind of trust, and to be given that kind of presence. And it's one that we cannot take for granted. And so I love I love the way that you that you put it. And I think in Spider

Man and Spider Man time with great power comes great responsibility. That quote is, because right when you get up there in front of others, that's a high risk. You know, there's not much net, you know, you're a high wire act. And it's like, okay, there are multiple right answers, but they're definitely wrong ones. There's like, all sorts of different ways that you can, you know, connect some people that like that, that'd be a show other people, they slowly warm up and things like that. But it's like when getting up in front of others. It's like that responsibility. It's like, okay, I'm, there's only a few people who are pure get to do this. How do I make it about them? How do I not waste their time, and waste this opportunity of attention and focus where everyone, at least for a brief moment in time, is all in the same mindset in the same place, hopefully, with similar goals, and you can squander that or you can maximize that. And that's why it's just such a huge responsibility.

Yeah. Yeah, a beautiful one that we happily carry are excited to carry. And one that you Brian carry really well, I've had the the privilege of, as I mentioned, my first year in NSA, I believe was the year that you were the president, my reign of terror. Yes. And I had no idea was going on, I think I signed up to be a member of NSA right before, right before influence. And I didn't know what was going on. And I was like this guy. Okay, he's fun. Nice time. And great plays your game. But, but still,

both guys have to try harder. That's awesome.

I'm glad we snuck that in there. But yeah, the but But since then, getting to know you a little bit more and getting to know and watch you work your magic in a lot of ways are going to be a part of some of the things that you have put on. It is it's been really cool to watch, I've learned from you. I've grown because of you and and it's just I'm grateful for the for the relationship that we are building and that you wanted to come and hang out with me in the diner today, brother, I appreciate it.

Appreciate that. I love our association that we are a part of because it allows us to expand our world, it would have been very easy for me to just hang with people who are like me. And instead because we're in the group, we make connections. And again, you are the hippest white guy I know I like and you've got your beatboxing thing, which is something I can recognize the magic of I could not recreate if I was offered millions of dollars. So I'm sorry, are you drooling? Are you be boxing? I can't. And you know you have you know, you're you have this big presence when you come on on stage, and everyone is hanging on? What is he going to say next? Because with your improvisational style, if we don't know,

neither do I Yeah.

And that's why you're taking the multiple things here. And so I'm just, I'm just thankful for the association allows weirdos like you and I to connect and for you to have put together this diner talks thing, which allows us to connect and hopefully with your 17,000 17 million or 17 viewers don't know where he is on that, you know, spectrum here that, you know, hopefully that some of the things we talked about are, you know, conversation starters for folks to have their own reflections and conversation with people that they care about in their world.

I agree to man, thank you. And thank you for your kind words. I'm not good at taking compliments, but I will attempt to take that one. You'll take it you will. It is recorded, sir. Yes.

We know you want to spend time editing. So it's in there.

That is 100% true. Brian, where can people find you if they want to learn more about the magic that you do bring to meetings and the training offerings that you have as well.

Well queued up with the bar that you've had underneath for the last 20 minutes. So that's a good start there at the extreme meetings.com is our website where you can kind of see our approach and some video clips and some kind of like highlights of things that we've done there. And if people have meetings that they would like to not suck, we'd love to support that. But you know, the main thing is that, you know, through something like this that I hope something that we both said together inspires you that that The viewer to make a tweak and how you lead meetings and how you interact with others because it's not about James dry. It's about the impact you can make with different ideas that you glean from this series of diner talks with James.

Ah, Brian, thank you so much for hanging out today. It means the world brother, I appreciate you. It's a privilege. Indeed, indeed. Y'all. That was my time with Brian Walter. What an incredible man the energy the voices, you know, you know, I like that I'm always bringing I'm always peppering in a little bit of a voice every once in a while and myself. And so I just appreciate his energy, the assertive optimism. I appreciate that. And the key word in there is not optimism. It's assertive. And that is implying that it is a choice that we have the opportunity to make in every situation. And yes, there are times where optimism can feel like we're all pissing rainbows and it's all one big giant hug and it feels weird. But optimism doesn't have to be all that weird, y'all we can choose to look at the bright side if we would like to, and it is a choice. And I also appreciate Brian's self awareness. And as someone who has gotten to watch the work that he has done with extreme meetings, that if you all have something coming up that you think needs a little more usage as my mom would say, feel free to hit up Brian Walter at extreme meetings.com and until next time, my friends do me a favor keep punching small talk in the face by asking better questions. You all take care.