Success and Service WITHOUT Unnecessary Sacrifice | DFS 342

Welcome to Destin for success. I'm your

host, Jennifer Takagi, and I'm very excited to have Amanda

Johnson with us today. As I was looking over her bio and it said

she midwives paradigm changing brands, I was like, wait, I want

to make sure, are you? You're you midwife the brands, not the

babies. Yes, so ha. I got that clear for you right from the

start, and I love this phrase too. She alchemizes 25 years of

transformative experiences through story, literacy, writing

and Narrative Medicine. I love storytelling. I love writing,

and I do think it's so powerful and so beneficial, and I'm so

happy to have you here today. Welcome to the show. Amanda,

thanks

for having me. Jennifer. I'm I love talking

story and talking to people who love stories so well,

how did you get into this? I mean, you've been

doing it for a minute or 25 years, whatever comes first. Um,

so how did you get into this? And how do you help people with

their with their brand and their stories? I love

this. Yeah, well, you know, Whenever anyone

asks me, you know, what was your path to this? Did you go to

school for this? And I just think when I look back, all I

see is like a pinball machine experience. You know, Pinball

where you just kind of click and you're just trying to keep the

ball moving and not lose it. That's kind of how my 20s felt.

I really thought I was going to be a journalist. I went to the

university to be a journalist, got into an honors program, and

realized, you know, that not only our story is very

important, but it's very hard to understand them without knowing

history and the context, what was the author trying to say?

And so I thought, well, become a history teacher, because I'm

passionate about young people, and it would certainly be better

for them to be asking hard questions in their high school

years while they have family around, than getting into their

college years and feeling completely alone and having to

answer these big questions like the stories answer, right? Why

are we here? How did we get here? What are we supposed to do

with our lives? And so I became a history teacher, got into the

education system, had a little baby around the same time, and

quickly realized that the education system was not a good

spot for me. At that time, I ended up in a really tough

district, in a really tough neighborhood with a bunch of

high school students who, you know, they really didn't believe

they were gonna live to see the end of high school. And so talk

about trying to talk through meaning and stories and and give

them some hope. It was hard, so I didn't have enough to do all

of that work and be a good mom at home at the end of the day.

So I left that profession. Had the opportunity to work with a

friend of the family who was creating a writing instructing

business online. So I got to help people pass Basic Skills

Test learn how to write powerfully from my computer at

home while my kid was sleeping. It was this perfect little

setup, and I got to learn how to coach writing at distance, which

was kind of a new thing. I'd helped people through college

and, you know, but I always had the opportunity to kind of sit

with them and talk with them. It's a different style when

you're just back and forth online. So I did that, and then

I started telling people about this amazing program, and I

ended up going to the wrong audience. Remember how we were

talking about audience before we did record, we went to the wrong

audience. We went to a group of female entrepreneurs to share

about this business. And they said, Well, you know, we're not

really interested in learning how to write better. We actually

need to. We need to have what we've written fixed. And so I

opened up a little editing business, and I started helping

these new entrepreneurs with their manuscripts and their

brochures and all of these things, trying to help them

clarify the message, connect with the audience, do all of

these things. As I was working through that process, I realized

that it was really painful like I'd never I'd written theses and

things before, right? But I mean, and you said you've

written a bunch of books, right? So you kind of know that feeling

when you've written something and and you're sending it off to

someone who knows more than you as it relates to storytelling or

writing. And so the amount of time it took them to write it,

and then to find the courage, and then to find someone who

could help them, and then to hit send and then to wait for

feedback. And you know, it was always really good content, but

it wasn't in the right order. It wasn't shaped to, like, really

meet their readers where they were at and so I would kind of

hack their little masterpiece into a bunch of pieces,

reorganize it, send it back to them, say, Isn't this better?

This is true to your intention, right? And they'd say, Well,

yeah, but then their faces would fall off, you know? So I

thought, I think I could just help people avoid all of this

drag time, like spending so many years on this, if I could just

help them from the beginning, I could help them to organize

their thoughts, help them to stay on track, give them some

accountability, and maybe even. Be like a writing partner, so

that they didn't have to be great storytellers. They didn't

have to be phenomenal writers to really make a difference in

someone's life with a book. I can do that part for them, with

them, and eventually, you know, everyone learns how to write a

little bit better along the way. So I started working from the

beginning. Figured out that the best way to work with these high

performing professional women entrepreneurs who are in my

space was to kidnap them. You know, with consent, I invited

them to little retreat getaways, to work with them and and so

I've been refining this process for the last 17 years or so.

Oh my gosh, that sounds so awesome. I have

sent stuff to an editor, and it came back, and I was like, I

What? And and then in a coaching program, I was in one of the

things was to have somebody help with your about page on your

website or LinkedIn or whatever. And it came back, and I was

like, I've never done any of those things. Like, I mean, I

wish I had, but and I left the federal government and became an

entrepreneur. And the way they put it together, they were like,

Well, Jennifer was a trainer for the federal government her

entire career, and I was like, No. I wasn't like, Nope, no. And

so I can only imagine how hard it was for you taking our

scattered thoughts, I'm going to throw myself under the bus with

your past clients and try to make sense of it all. And I'm

like, Wait, that didn't happen. So, yeah, it would have been

super helpful to have help

from the start. Yeah, it does. It helps. It

helps. And, you know, I find that one of the things I learned

very early on, I you know, that retreat, I told you, the

consenting kidnapping situation, the first one that I did, I

really thought that I was just going to be helping people

organize their books and start writing like this was my plan.

But you know, when you ask someone, what do you care about?

Why do you want to write this? All of a sudden the story comes

up, right?

And a different story than they thought they

were going to tell

story. It's a totally different story. Oh, I

don't want to tell that story. And I'm thinking, I'm thinking,

but the new story doesn't mean as much without understanding

the old story. And so what I discovered very quickly was that

people were running into their stories and feeling old physical

symptoms, feeling old emotional symptoms, and shutting their

computer before finishing a paragraph, and that's what was

really stopping them. And so, you know, once I had them in

this in this sweet safe space, and there was the opportunity

for them to begin sharing, and then I saw all of the tears

falling, I thought, okay, and I heard that little voice say,

this is actually your work. Is more about the messenger than it

is the message. Like, what you're being able to do is walk

them back to who they were before the story started. And I

realized that I was going to become not just a partner in

writing, but a partner in that transformative process. And boy,

I, you know, that was a learning curve for me. I knew how to

facilitate rooms, but doing that and looking at what was coming

up for people who had these sometimes horrendous back

stories, you know, very painful back stories and very beautiful

current stories, with the little you know, stuff going on the

background connected to that old story. You know, it was one of

those opportunities for learning for me, and it was just, it was,

it was amazing to see the power of writing and storytelling in

community, because as I pulled people into these little groups,

they moved faster, they had more fun. They they appeared to not

just write faster, but feel better faster. You know, there

was that witnessing experience that they were getting, and that

really allowing all of their humanity to peek through these

personas that they shared with the rest of the world and and be

invited back. You know, like we love the extra human. I love it

when, you know, I have these little, these little flare ups

at my retreat, because I'm like, yes, people feel safe enough to

let those little, those little things out that aren't really

permitted in other places. That

little nugget, it's very interesting. We're

probably going to have to have a off, you know, off podcast

conversation about this, because I share about this. I don't mind

sharing about it, but my struggle with sharing my

backstory is I, I don't want to just drop it out there, like

everywhere, right? Like there, there's a way to weave it in,

but I don't always know where to weave it in, and that is on the

day of the oak. In the City bombing. I worked in the Murrow

Federal Building, and I woke up sick. I had bronchitis. I was

sicker than a dog, but you know, when you think I gotta go to

work, I can't stay home. I have things to do. So I was trying to

figure out how I was going to push through when I was sicker

than a dog and go to work, and a gentle voice from God said, Stay

home, take care of yourself. And I did. And two hours later, the

whole house shook, and wow, the building sheared off three feet

south of my desk, and everybody I sat with was killed, and I got

a crumpled name plate and a few family photos back, and it's a

powerful story of intuition and hearing God and survival and not

having survival skills like Right? There's a lot that could

be in that. And I have a really dear friend who's adamant that a

chunk of that story should be in every talk I do, every book I

write, every everything, and I'm like, Yeah, I don't really know

how to do that. Like, I don't know how to weave that in in an

eloquent way, right? Like, it's just kind of out there. So I

love that you you probably tease that out of people in a way that

they share enough that needs to be told to get the story moving

along, but maybe not all the back pieces in its entirety that

they may not want to share out there.

Yeah, well, you know when we're in circle

together and retreats, you know, people, people manage however

much they share. But one of the things that I do tell people who

are writing through backstory is that if they've been inspired to

write a book, the chances are that that that voice that you're

talking about, that intuitive like, here's the inspiration, go

find if they find me, chances are that the the intuitive voice

was asking them to go back and review their story and see

something that they realized wasn't there, or see some truth

or fiction that they had it twisted in the way that they

were thinking about it. But as they write their narrative as a

whole, they get to see more, and they get to shift their

perspective and their orientation to it. And I always

tell people write the whole thing like every nitty gritty

detail that you can remember, because there's a somatic

experience of release. You're really letting go of some energy

and being able to process it out of your body. Now, of course,

that's kind of scary when they're thinking about writing

and publishing a book, right? Well, Amanda, I just want to

make sure this isn't going to get no, no, no, it's not. It's

going to go through lots of editing. And, you know,

eventually they call me the hacker, because then I'm taking

out things that they think is, they think is so important, but

the reader won't. And so, you know, it is a whole process. But

I always tell people, you know, if you have the opportunity to

write your story, write it true for you first and then, and then

get the support from someone else to be able to say, Okay,

what if this is going to be the most important for my reader?

Because sometimes you don't want to share those nitty gritty

details. If you're writing to let's say an audience is dealing

with a lot of trauma. If you write too much detail, you might

lose them, and you're gonna sign them, right? Yeah, and shut the

book and have to leave, right? So there's all those things to

take into consideration, but the first thing is, I really believe

that we're inspired to write books for ourselves. First,

I love that, yes, and I think, well, I don't

think I know, everybody has a story. We all have a story. We

all have multiple stories. And I'm sure part of it is getting

to what is that first basic story that's like the basis of

it all.

Yeah, yeah. There's a whole process that I

take people through that is really the opportunity to just

dig through layers and layers and layers of what they think is

their true message and who they think is their real audience and

the story that they think they want to share. But it's really

not until you see that whole picture of where they've been,

what they've overcome, what they're doing in the world

today, that it's it's the opportunity to then take a look

at all of that and say, Okay, how are we going to shape this?

Number one, for you to get out of the process what you need,

right? And number two, to make sure that we're taking your

reader on a transformational journey with you. How do we

organize it? What is that you know you might have? I just

talked to a lady the other day. She's like, I have like 20 books

inside of me, right? But what's that one story that would

connect with that one audience that you know I had this you.

Uh, I had this amazing opportunity. It was, it was one

of those, what do they call it? Beautiful opportunities, where,

in 2012 I had a client call me and say, you know, his doctors

had given him about 30 days to live. Oh, wow. And he said, I

can't leave this planet without putting everything that's inside

of me on the page. Will you help me? Well, I just started my own

book, my own campaign, my business was running like crazy,

and I was like, of course, just shoved everything aside. We'll

figure it out. And so I had the opportunity to not just help him

write this absolutely beautiful book that will create ripples in

people's lives forever, but also to walk alongside someone who

knows their time is so short, and that I remember leaving his

house the first day when he when he told me, you know, like we

have 30 days. And I I thought, what would I do if I only have

30 days? Like, what in my life today would I just stopped doing

if I only had 30 days left, and what things would I start doing?

And then I started to use that question as a way to help people

get to clarity very quickly about what is the story and

message if you only have 30 days and you know, you can't write a

really good book, and much less right, what is the one that you

would write? What is it, if you only have that amount of time,

and who would you write it for, right? Is it? Is it an

individual? Is it a community? Is it an industry? Is it your

clients, like, what is that piece of treasure that you have,

that you're like, Man, I can't take this with me. I have to

leave this for other people.

Oh, my God, that is so powerful. Like, what

do I want to share in my business? I had a conversation

last night with a friend. We just got back from an event, and

it was like, I do the I do energy healing, and I do

leadership, like, how do I bridge that? Like, I need a I

need a better bridge. And it took a long time for us to come

up with a with an answer to that, because it's not always

readily available or readily visible on what you want to do.

So you work, obviously, with women entrepreneurs. Who else,

like, Who else do you play with in this magical miracle, yeah,

area. So

initially it was mostly entrepreneurs and and

then mostly helping professionals slash

entrepreneurs. And then I realized that I had a few people

who are coming in who are saying things like, Okay, I want to

make change in this industry, but I don't want to write like

my own story. I don't want to write a how to I have this other

idea for fiction. And I thought, you know, some of my favorite

lessons that I have gleaned in life and growth and leadership

come from great stories on screen or in books, right? So

yes, I said, I've never done that before. I've always made

fiction better, but I've never worked on it from the beginning.

If you're willing to like be my test, let's do it. And so we did

and and so I have two therapists who have written these amazing

novels, just amazing that will make huge dents in their

industries. And, you know, so we work with fiction writers as

well. But yeah, my my sweet spot, my heart is for that

helping professional who is looking at, how do I how do I

get this to the world bigger than, you know, the five or the

10 or even the 30 people that I'm able to reach every year?

Because I know what it's like to be sitting in a room with your

clients and think, Oh my gosh. What is happening right now is

so magical, and it's so beautiful for these people, but

it's also like it feels like a crying shame for other people to

not be part of it. Like, how do we get that to other people? And

sometimes a book is the answer,

because you can reach so many people. It was

kind of funny. My My parents passed away in 2008 and all of a

sudden one day, just like was laid on my heart to share all

the different quotes that my mom, just like those little

truth bombs that came out. So it was like, I would put, you know,

the world according to Phyllis, and then, like, my

interpretation, or her how it impacted me. And it was kind of

funny, because I was talking to her younger brothers, and I

said, you know, she just had no self confidence. She was really

good at pushing you out there, but she wasn't going to do it.

And it was very interesting with them being little brothers and

me being the daughter, because they both said, Oh my gosh, she

had so much confidence. You're crazy. Like no, she had, she had

all the. Confidence, like for all of us. And it was like, no,

she really had no confidence, because she would have done it

if she had had any, but she didn't. It was like, Jennifer,

go do it. I remember being about five, and she was like, go ask

them which way to turn or something. It was something

about directions. And I'm five,

and I was like, no. And she was like, you

can do it. Just go ask him. You need to be a big

girl and just go ask. And we're at a gas station or something,

and I wouldn't do it. And she was like, Oh, for heaven's sake.

And so we walk over together and ask the question. But I really

think now as an adult and all these years after her passing,

I'm like, yeah, she didn't want to go talk to that stranger

either, like she was just gonna be over there to ask the

question. But it's interesting how you perceive that, right?

Like, my big message was, my mom had no confidence, but she

wanted everybody around her to have all the confidence she

didn't have. And so interesting little twist on

absolutely, yeah, I think that speaks to the

importance of having more eyes on a story, right? So like, what

happens when an accident happens? Yeah, right. Like

people, the the the the officers show up, and they get the they

get the story from a whole bunch of different eyewitnesses,

because they know this person's looking at it from this angle,

and this person's looking at it from this angle, and everyone

sees a little bit a little bit differently, right? Has a

different lens through which they're seeing or a different

angle from which they're watching. And I really believe

that the power of narrative medicine, of writing your story

and of doing it in community, is really being able to have people

look at it and say, well, now that's interesting, that you

drew that conclusion about your mom's confidence, right?

Because, from my angle, I always saw this and this, and it's like

we hold on to those stories as if they're true, and then, and

then we get to see, like there are other dimensions of this

human that we've kind of put into. This is the character.

This is the role they played in my life, right? And it doesn't

make it less true for you, but it makes it a more true story

when you get more people looking at it. And I found that those

moments when those conversations open up inside of the community,

that's when what I call story saving happens, because people

get to look at a story that they were 100% sure had happened a

particular way, and just have this moment where they think,

Oh, what if that wasn't their motivation. What if? What if?

Right? And it opens up the story to other possibilities. And I

myself experienced a moment where I was in a, in a in the

middle of a chapter, working on a client's story, and I was

immediately sent to a childhood story when I was seven years

old, and I was so I was in there, and I had all these

characters, and all of a sudden, all these characters started to

look like the characters in my story at seven. And because I

was writing them, and I knew the characters so well, I'm writing

all these different expressions and motivation, you know, dialog

and all these things, internal dialog for them. And I had this

moment where I thought, you know, that trite saying that

people say, what if they were, I'm sure they were doing the

best they could with what they had, you know that saying, Yeah,

well, I've lived by that saying for a long time, because I had a

lot of older people that I knew exactly why they treated me the

way they did, because I met their elders like I understood

how this got passed down, but it also shaped my identity, until I

had this moment where I was in the middle of a story and I saw,

Oh, I think this actually was their best thing. It was awful,

and the impact on me was terrible, but I think it was

their best, their best game in that moment, and it changed that

character's entire role in my life, and also changed me,

because it that story had formed an identity in me. And yeah,

actually, they sent me to bed for a few days because I had to,

I had to let go of that story that I was hanging on to.

And that's so it's so powerful that it's the

best they could do. And I had a conversation with someone about

that, and I said, the the best way I can put it together is one

time in a in a Bible study groups, you know, there was a

question of the preacher, and he said, Well, we're imperfect

beings, born to imperfect parents in an imperfect world.

And so. Uh, of course, there's going to be a lot of strife and

grief and, you know, missteps and horrific missteps, and then

little ones also. So yeah, and that, like, you know, changes

the whole dynamic of how you want to look at it, and you

don't want to, you don't want to minimize the impact that that

situation had on you, but at the same time, when you can say,

Well, wait, they really were doing their best, then maybe

that impact is lessened just a little bit, or just not quite as

severe.

Yeah, yeah. It made me grateful that my one of

my one of my hard and fast rules for parenting my son was to tell

my own story, you know, to create opportunities for us

while we were watching stories on the couch or talking about

some of the great stories, to use those themes to give him

little glimpses into what adults feel like, and what I felt like

when I was little, and what shaped me. And I haven't met a

more compassionate human being than him, and I know he came

wired for it. And I also think that a lot of that, that

connective storytelling and that, you know, the same thing

that happens in circle where you just you let out a little

something that you're just not sure, like, that's not something

that's usually shared in public spaces, but you, you make the

offer, and when you get met with curiosity and with compassion,

it changes The story forever.

Oh, I love that. So when you're doing your

work now, I love that you do in community. I just like, I say, I

got home from this event and they're like, why don't you have

a membership, why don't you have a community? Why don't you, you

know, create this space. And I love that that's such a big part

of how you work with people, because it seems sometimes like

one on one would be better, but it's sounding to me like working

with a group of fellow writers on wanting to get their stories

out there is even more powerful. I

definitely think it's more powerful every once in

a while, and I've tested it across time, you know, working

group, and then I'd have someone and it always happens that when

I am working with a cohort and working with someone

individually on this side, I'm just always wishing that they

would jump in there, because in some ways, we can move faster

with their writing back and forth, and they can meet their

other timelines and goals better. But you know, they miss

out on a lot of that connection. They miss out on a lot of that

opportunity for sharing the story, testing the story out

before you put it in the book, right, like or before you leave

it in the book. Let's say, you know, there's just, there's so

much more richness for the journey. And you know, a lot of

people who are brand new, it's intimidating to say I'm a

writer, and then to declare I'm an author, and then to figure

out publishing, and then to realize that's not the end. Then

you get to market the book, and then you get to figure out how

you're going to make your return on investment. And hopefully, if

you've met someone like me, in the beginning, I'm asking those

questions from the beginning, like, where do you see this

going? And some people can't answer that, and when they can't

answer it, I know that it's like the writing is for them, and

they gotta be in the community. Other people come in and say,

this is part of my, you know, this plan. This is my fourth

business blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Okay, I see you 30

days. We got this,

not this, right? I'm

putting on my sneakers to run alongside you. I

get it. Okay, you know? So, so it's customized per person, but

yes, the the sweet spot for new writers, I really think it's

community. And

so if, if a listener is thinking, Man, I

might want to write a book, what would be So, I guess it's a two

part question. Number one, what would be the first thing you

would recommend that they do? And number two, how do they find

you when they decide, yeah, I don't want to do this by myself.

Okay, so the first thing is answer that

question that I asked earlier. What story or message would you

share? And who would you share it with if you only had 30 days

left, okay, and that doesn't give you the absolute clear

answer, then I'm going to give you a link to an audio that I

recorded to help people. It has 10 or 11 other questions in

there that really kind of helps to chip away at all of the ideas

that we have that aren't really the clearest ideas. And then

second, second question that you asked is, How do they find me?

Is saved by story dot house and and I can also give you other

links so they can see those programs that I'm talking about.

Because, you know, there's a lot of opportunity. When you go to

the website, you'll be like, Oh my god. Look, yes, we do. We

partner with people from inspiration to impact. So it's

all the way from I have this idea, and I don't know if it's

worth pursuing, all the way to I'm I'm going to scale this

message and my impact and income. How do I do that? And so

we're working kind of start to finish. So it looks like a lot,

but check out what we're doing on the right, and save pages,

because that's where, that's where, if you're looking at, how

do I get this book done, that's where you'll find answers.

Oh my gosh, I love that. Amanda and it and,

and writing is so powerful, right? And, and everybody walks

away with a different message from it, and it's a it's a long

lasting testimonial to your life and the the life that you led

and the choices that you made. This has just been beautiful. So

in the show notes will be all the ways to get hold of Amanda.

So don't, don't worry, it's on your phone. Go ahead and just

click the show notes and all the information is there. But as we

close out, my podcast is destined for success. And so

what would be like one powerful thought or idea you would like

to leave the audience with around success and their pursuit

of it?

Make sure it's your definition, because there's

something really funny that happens when people decide to go

change the world with a message. It's almost like we accidentally

subscribe to the messenger list with all of the millions of

formulas and fixes and one size fits all things. And then we

think, Oh, I have to do it like this, and I have to do it like

this, and I have to and, you know, I can't tell you the

number of people who said, you know, I know that I need to do

this, do a in order to get to B. And I'm like, No, you don't so

and so doesn't do that. Like your definition of success mine

for the first two decades of my career, my definition of success

included, you know, making enough money to support my life

and also to make sure that I have the time and the energy to

put into raising a good human having a good marriage, taking

care of a grandmother who needed me so make sure that success is

your definition that encapsulates your whole life,

like Don't get pigeon holed in this. It's just about this. Oh

my gosh. That is so good. And I love that we

have to have our own definition, because what lights you up may

not light me up, right? So, oh, so powerful. Amanda, thank you

so much for your time and for sharing with us. Thanks

for having me. This is like I said. I love

these conversations. So thanks so

much. You're so welcome. I'm Jennifer Takagi

with destin for success, and I look forward to connecting with

you soon. You.