Guest Speaker Series: Meet Jaclyn Stover

Tara Bryan

I have a special guest for you today. Jacqueline Rikkyo. The story here today is to talk about her experience with online courses. So, so excited to welcome her today. And corresponding secrets podcast, as you know is the podcast that gives you actionable tips for creating, selling, and launching your online course business. So welcome today, Jacqueline to the podcast. So happy to have you here today.

Jaclyn Stover

Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. And to talk about this. I'm a teacher at heart. So this is yeah, this will be great.

Tara Bryan

Awesome, very cool. So let's just start off, just give me a sense for your journey. What brings you into this space today and how his online courses or online programs are part of your business model? Yeah,

Jaclyn Stover

yeah. So I will start with I. So my background is in education. And I was a kindergarten teacher. And I taught second grade in third grade. And I also taught English online to kids in China for a few years. And so getting people results or getting those learning outcomes. And moving people along that is really important to me. But so my journey to like getting online, I was a teacher, I left the public education world and didn't really know what I was going to do. And also during the time, I was really working on my own health, I was very unhealthy when I was a teacher and also like my stress levels were so high and I didn't know how to cope with stress. So starting a blog was just kind of like something that I did for myself. And as I was getting healthier, people were kind of contacting me, like, what are you doing, and I like started running and also kind of like experimented with a bunch of different diets and kind of fell down this somewhat disordered eating path. So the blog kind of started being more about my experience with running and how running really, I mean, it became part of my life. And people know me as a runner now, which is crazy, because a decade ago, I was not athletic and running was not a part of my life. And then food wise to like I it just became people know me as a healthy eater. So you talk about imperfect eating, you don't have to be way on a diet, are we off a diet, but like, what's like, you know, do well with food. Um, so when I started so that I had the blog going, and people would contact me like, oh, you know, can you help me with these things, and I got certified as a health and life coach. And I started coaching people. And with the health and life coaching certification, they actually gave you some, like templates of how like calls could go. And so I was using those templates, but like, people were not moving along. And I started to dread what I was doing, because I was like, like, no one's getting results, like we're getting on the phone, or we're getting on a zoom, and we're talking, but like you said, like actionable tips, like people are not taking action, and I don't know what to do to help people take action. Um, so I started to have like, more anxiety about what I was doing. And also, like fear, like, well, maybe this isn't for me, like so, you know, like, limiting beliefs. Just like, maybe this isn't the right path. Um, it was kind of a mess. And so I did kind of that's when I found like online courses, and I was like, Maybe I need to build a course around this. I liked that. Because as an introvert, I was like, I don't want to do phone calls anymore. I'll just put it in the course and help people. Um, but what I found with that was, if you don't have a good course, people don't take the course. And so even if like you have good information in there, if it's not presented in a way that people can take actually take action, they're not going to get that transformation. So I really, like I had to figure out a lot with this. Um, and also it just, I think that sometimes I look back and I'm like, Man, I had no idea this was going to be as hard as it is. Um, but yeah, it's been there's been a lot of twists and turns in this journey.

Tara Bryan

So cool. All right. So there's so much there. I want to unpack Yeah, um, I love hearing people's journey because it's so interesting kind of, you know, where you started and then what kind of led you down this path. And so, you know, we just talked the other day for the very first time and so it's been it's been great to get to get to know you a little bit. I actually also was a teacher. And I taught elementary school and yeah, I can get any you know, not exactly my thing. And so I actually that's when I went in for me my journey went to going into corporate and teaching adults which adults are really just kids in bigger bodies. I say that all the time. It's really true. And and so everything I do kind of has that, that that slant to it right where it's like okay, so how do we engage how do we entertain how do we make sure that people are getting results? But but so I love that you are also a teacher because for in honestly, I've gotten a lot of inquiries lately from people who are teachers who are like, I don't even know how to get into this world. Like how do I say switch gears and do this. So I love hearing stories of people who actually have done that. And I love that your path is a little bit different than sort of just going into, you know, corporate and teaching in corporate so, so you so you decided to go, were you looking for a job? And then in the interim, you just started blogging and, and and then that turned into something? Is that how that happened? It was, yeah, it's so weird because I would say like, since I left teaching, I've had like, 8 million different jobs. But blogging or like putting myself on the internet is the one thing that I have stuck with over. I don't know how long it's been since I left teaching. But yeah, I was, you know, when I left teaching, I actually worked for a tech startup here in Chicago. And then my husband, then boyfriend, we moved to Atlanta for a few years. And I got another job at a different tech startup, I also finished a maternity leave position at a school. So I like I there was a lot of it wasn't like I left teaching, I was like, This is what I'm going to go do. I'm going to go teach adults. I was like, I don't know, I don't know what to do with my life. Like I had to figure out so many things. I actually was a nanny for a while for a couple different families. So it was not like a clean, like leave from teaching there. And then I set a share to like I taught online, I taught English online. So there was like a lot of like, going back a step forward two steps back dancing around trying different things. Um, yeah, but that yeah, that's just my

Tara Bryan

Well, and that's super cool. So then you decided you're doing a blog, and you're getting some traction with that you're just sort of sharing your journey and what works for you and your tips. And, and I think that the other thing that's super interesting about that is a lot of times people you know, they'll have an expertise, or they'll have a passion or hobby or something, whatever it is that they have. But there's a huge difference between like having it and monetizing it. Right. So how did you? How did you go in and take that leap? Like you said, you went in that health, health coaching certification? But But why didn't you get a help? Or get a certification on something else? Like, what was it about what you were doing that that sort of changed from a hobby to something that you wanted to help other people with?

Jaclyn Stover

Yeah, um, it's a good question. So I think I was, at the time, I was like, should I go back to school? Should I have my master's degree in education as well. And I think at that time, too, I just finished paying off my student loans. And I was like, I don't want to take on more debt. Like, I just don't. And also because I was not super 110% sure of what I was doing. So I did get a health and life coaching certification, but it was the investment wasn't as much as getting another Master's or doctorate and also, the time commitment. There was about a year that I spent working on this. Um, but that also, I think, making that investment in that Did you know, it was a decent amount of money, but it was like, okay, cool. Like, you're actually going to spend time on this and try to make money with this and be serious about this. Um, but yeah, I'm sorry. To answer the question. No, yeah, I think I think it just, you know, like, so. So what, what was that moment that you decided that I'm gonna take this thing that I'm doing my hobby, or this experience that you've created? and turned it into a blog? Like, what was that moment that you decided that you wanted to actually monetize that piece of your expertise, right, because you could have gone and, you know, made money in a ton of different ways. And so I love that you're focused on, you know, self care and running and, and this, this niche, but like, how did you how did you decide that? That was something you wanted to monetize?

Yeah, um, there's a, there's this thing that I keep coming back to also is that there's no one really doing exactly what I'm doing, you will see a lot of health and fitness out there that I think can turn people into really disordered eaters and not having a really great relationship with their body. And it kind of like implodes, and it's not great. Um, and so the approach that I have to food and to exercise I don't really see anyone else doing out there. So I did I do still feel this calling or this need, anytime that I feel like oh my gosh, things are not going well. Like seriously, I will get an email from someone that's like I have tears in my eyes. I just listened to this podcast that you did with you know, so three years ago, thank you so much. And it's so it's like, oh, my gosh, like there's a need for this. There's a need for this and no one else is filling this need, you need to continue on with this. And if you're going to continue on with this, you need to be making money with this right? If you're making $0 Then you're not going to be able to continue on with this. Um, also like sometimes I look out there and I'm like, I like this is something that I'm good at and I don't know that there's a lot out there that I am good at when I think about working with adults and kids like I do agree that adults, I say they'll time like they're just little five year olds inside. And they have the same things. But I really enjoy working with adults. And I never thought I would actually when I was a teacher, parent, teacher night was the worst thing in the world because I was so nervous to talk with parents and have to put a presentation on in front of parents, but now like working with adults, I love it. I love the conversations that we're having in anytime. Yeah. When I'm like, Oh, maybe I should get a job. Maybe? Maybe I am like, no, like, I really enjoy this. I'm passionate about this. This is something I'm good at. And it's something that's needed.

Tara Bryan

Yeah, no, I love that. And I love the fact that you're able to take something that you're passionate about that that is more along the lines of something that most people think is just something that they do outside of work, and monetize that and make that into your thing, and really help people live a more fulfilled life. Is is awesome. And I love it from a course perspective, too. Because there is a framework for it, right? You do take somebody through, you know, a, sort of a method to get from point A to point B. And, and it doesn't have to be, you know, a business skill, it doesn't have to be something that's like that tangible, super hard, you know, you know, you hit this button, and this happens, right? Like, it can be something that that is a little bit different. So So I love that. So what do you think your biggest obstacle was in creating kind of going from, you know, maybe one on one coaching or group coaching to creating an online course? Like, what was the biggest obstacle you had when you were working through that?

Jaclyn Stover

So it was really important to me that if I sell something that I actually believe in it, and I will believe in it, but it's getting people results? And when I would look so I created some online courses, like man, people watch, like two videos, and then they stop and like, right, like, you can see their progression. And so it's like, what, what else can I do to ensure that people are doing this? Yes, people who purchase this are, you know, they're adults, and you cannot force someone to do something can't learn someone? Right? Right? Yeah, you can't. But like, I, if someone makes an investment, like I want them, I want them to be able to get, you know, the best possible results. So I learned that just putting a bunch of videos onto you know, a platform and saying, okay, here, you bought this, go watch it. And it doesn't really work like that. Because the other thing too, right? Like adults are just little kids, they don't want to do their homework. They don't want to show up. They don't want to have to go to class. Like, I feel that way about some things too. Right. Um, so those were Yeah, those were definitely obstacles. And I found that, you know, what, I started looking at the courses that I had taken, what do I like about those courses? That actually helps me complete those courses? And let me look at what are the courses that I've taken that I stopped taking them? Because I was like, this is this is boring, you know, like, what was it about those courses. So doing that really helped me, let me make this the best that I can so that people show up like attendance. I talked about that in around, you know, in just like public school education world. If kids don't show up to school, if they're intendancy is poor, they can't even they don't even have access to the information that's being presented at school. So like, You got to get people to even show up, and then move through the information.

Tara Bryan

All right, so give us an actionable like, tip or piece of advice of like, what's an example of something that you did to get them to show up?

Jaclyn Stover

Yeah, um, so a couple things. One, the videos in my course are short, they're like, less than 10 minutes, I found that my attention span watching like a 4560 minute video, like, I just didn't want to watch it. There were times that like, I personally would break up the video that I was watching. So that it was short. And you know, okay, fine, watch 15 minutes of this and then I'll come back to it. But so I made mine, all of them are 10 minutes or shorter. Also, in the like, the first couple of videos that people watch the when someone buys it, they don't get access to the whole course like the actual content. There's like a couple of videos just like, here's how to be a good online students. And I'm like, upfront with them. Like, hey, like the completion rate of online courses is like, less than 3% or something ridiculous like that. Even for courses where people spend, like, oh, you know, over $10,000 for something, it's it's very low. So I'm upfront with them. I want you to get the most out of your investment. I think I have a video that's like don't make this a waste of your time and money. Um, and I tell them that and I'm like, here's how to be a good online student set a time that you're out gonna watch these videos, I suggest because I do health and life coaching, and I'm setting people up for success for their day, I suggest them try to do make this a part of your morning routine that you're just gonna watch this video. Also, comment on the video. So that looks like a twofer piece one that lets me know that they're engaging in it. It's social proof that people are taking the course that right having those the comments on the video, but also for them, like I want them to I think the the question I had on there was like, What is something you learned? Or what is something you're going to do based on this video? Because I have, I work with a lot of women who sometimes they know more about nutrition, and they know more about limiting beliefs. And they've read all of this self help books, they know a lot about this stuff. But they don't take action based on it. So I want them to right, like what are you going to do based on this video? Like what like, how did this video actually help you? Or is this just more information that's going to be stored somewhere in your brain and not actually utilized?

Mm, yeah, I mean, that taking action piece is so important, because you can learn something, but until you actually apply it, it's not actually going to do anything. So I'm asking them to do that is, is key. So that's, that's great. Um, so in. So with that. Like, what's, what's some feedback that you've gotten from your customers in terms of how something that you presented? Maybe you were surprised? Or maybe it was something that you intentionally did? That helped move the needle for them? Right, like, was it a specific video? Was it a call to action? Like, what was? Like, what's the one thing that you can think of in your course that that moves people the most, in terms of how you have it structured? Or what you have in it or whatever?

Yeah, so one of the early videos too, I said that that saying? What is it? If nothing changes, then nothing changes, right? So I said that in one of my videos, and I remember this one client, she refers back to that a lot. And she said, like, um, you know, she's like, in her day, and you get to that moment, we talk a lot about like, in the moment, like you're in the moment decisions, it's not like, hey, let's make this big plan, and then you don't actually take action on the plan day to day. So she said that that saying helped her like, in the moment, like, if I don't change my actions right now, I am going to be right, where I was at the beginning of this coaching program, this course and coaching program, right. And so it's yeah, it's a really simple thing. But it just goes back to like, you have to take action based on this. You know, I read a book by Donald Miller, and he was talking about his framework, and he's like, it his marketing plan. He's like, We have found that the most successful people are the ones that actually implement this, right. And it's so silly, but it's, it's like, even just like, you know, imperfectly implementing something is still implementing it. Right. And so it's that like taking action instead of just saying if it next time,

yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's huge. Well, and what's interesting about just even talking about what Donald Miller said was that it's almost like a, in an unintentional call to action, right? Like, most people, right, you're like, I'm going to be one of those people, right? Like, I'm going to do it because I'm going to prove them wrong or whatever, you know, whatever the thing is, is sometimes it's just all about what how you call it out. So yeah, very cool. Okay. So talk to me quick about the structure that you have. So are you doing coaching and have a course? Or is it an autopilot course and you all, then you, the next step is for them to take coaching? How do you structure the program?

Jaclyn Stover

Yeah, so right now in my business, it is a course that it's daily, so they watch like a short video. And because I'm a teacher, I also have a workbook for them to take notes and do things. Um, so that so when they buy it, like drips to them, week by week, but then we also do weekly coaching calls that are short, just to make sure that you're taking action. Like I said, like I've had people in the past, like you don't like you're not even watching this. I also think to like, in particular to what I'm doing health and life coaching. We're unraveling decades of women's relationship with food and exercise in their body. And so it is helpful to have someone who's been through that to talk about that stuff. But again, the focus is on taking action. Like I'm not a therapist, I can't go away into your childhood. That's not my expertise, but we're focusing on like, what can you do now to take action to keep moving forward so you're not in the same place a year from now? You're not in the same place, as when you you know, made this money? investment in yourself.

Tara Bryan

What's the most fulfilling part about doing this work?

Jaclyn Stover

I mean, it's hearing that someone has gotten the results that they wanted. And the results that when I work with clients, it's, it's really just like being able to trust themselves around food and being able to feel good in their head and in their body. And when I can help someone achieve that, right, and it's them, like, that's, I think that that's something else that I've learned along this journey, we kind of talked about how, like, you can't force someone to learn this, like, I'm just their guide on their hero's journey, they are the hero of the story, they are the one that has to take action, but it is really fulfilling to be that guide for them. And I think too, like for me, like spiritually, like, it gives my existence on this planet meaning, like, okay, you know, that was a role that I was here to fulfill is like being someone else's guide. It gives meaning. You know, from Donald Miller, I read Victor Frankel's. No, I can't think of the name of the book. But it gives meaning to my suffering, it gives meaning to all of the crap that I've gone through, because it's like, will create, like, you were able to help someone else. Through those things. I also think, too, um, as a teacher, there was, when I left the public education world, there was a lot of shame that I had invested all of this time in money in my bachelor's and master's degree. And there was a lot of shame of like, family members are so great when they have things to say, when you make a change in your life, but there was just like, what are you gonna do? Like how, like, are you think that's a good decision? It brings, it's like, yeah, this wasn't a good decision, like I am making a positive change in the world. You know, I am. So I'm a teacher. I just was not meant to be in a classroom for 10 hours a day. That's just, you know, so it gives, it gives meaning to that suffering. And it's like, I think that I am like, what I do, I am good at it, because of my experience being a kindergarten teacher or teaching online. So it gives you no purpose for that as well.

Tara Bryan

Yeah, that's right. Very cool. Yeah, I, um, yeah, it's, that's a whole nother rabbit hole we go down is like, when you switch into something else that's still related to your traditional education. Um, you know, all the things that that go along with that, but I think, you know, again, it's so freeing to know that, you know, you could go down one path and think that that's the path, right. And then you can, you can, you know, veer off, you're still using your skills, you're still using your talents, but you're just doing it in a different way, and actually a way that serves you and your people so much more, and gives people those that gift of being able to work with you in a totally different way than then you were working with your kindergarteners. So, yeah, that's awesome. And remembering that so many of the things that you that you used when you were in kindergarten, teaching kindergarten, you actually could could use while you're trying to engage in and get your learners excited about what you're doing, right. Because as we know, as educators, it's not about the information you give people. It's about the the tips and, and actionable items that you can give them so they can actually use it and implement it, right. It's not about what we learn and how it goes in our head. And you know, what we do with it later, it's how we take action and apply it. So that's super cool. Okay, so I want to just dive into one additional topic, it's a little bit off the, like, online course, path, but similar. So one of the biggest sort of beliefs or challenges that a lot of people have, as they're sort of switching into doing more online courses. So, so less, you know, one on one work less group, like, I'm going to show up every day, or, you know, every week or whatever, and run through this program, and more moving it online, is they're going to lose that connection to people that that ability to help to serve, to connect with people and to get them into action. Right? Versus if I'm, if you know, we're having a one on one interaction, it's going to be much more, you know, successful or whatever. So, talk to me a little bit about how you, you know, did you have that challenge? And, and if you if you did, how you overcame that, in terms of you're still helping people you're helping them in a different way. And in a little bit about that journey.

Do you have any of that kind of when you transition from maybe the one on one coaching to more online?

24:52

Yeah, well, I think that my journey might be a little bit different in that I didn't have a business offline that I brought online. This is all been online, right? Like this started with a blog. So it's a little bit different actually, right before the pandemic, I was making plans to, like have things in person and then that way, you know, that went out the window. Um, but I think I mean, like, I think one of the most amazing things about working online as you can work with anyone, everywhere, I will have people, it's so funny when you look at like the stats on your website, and you see like, where people like what countries they're in, that are finding you, it is amazing, like, it is just such a cool experience. And so I mean, I've had clients, or I've had clients that live in, you know, Europe that live it, like, when someone finds me, i Oh, my gosh, the first time that someone contacted me, that, um, actually listened to my podcast. So the podcast is about running. But the coaching I do is sometimes about food exercise as well. But someone found me who was living in Australia, and I was just like, like, you're listening to my pod, like, it just blew my mind. Or also, like, when I have women who maybe are like two decades older than me, and find me, this is so cool. That you, like think of me as a leader that you think of me, as someone who can help you. I think that I've, I've made so many more connections online than is even possible. In like, you know, where I'm at. Um, I think that most of my, I talked to like internet friends a lot. And also to even just teaching online, like I used to so taught kids in China. And I just, it was just such a cool experience. Like, sometimes they'd be in their car, and they'd hold up their iPad, and I could see them, like, in China just driving through and like being able to see. So, um, yeah, I think there, there definitely is that piece that maybe it's not the exact same connection that you have in person. But like, all of my learning has been online. And I think especially through this pandemic, it's just opened that up, and it will say to, um, my husband and I, we went on our honeymoon to Thailand three years ago. And I was like, in Thailand working. This is so cool. Like, this is so cool, that this is possible. Um, we do want to move abroad and travel more. My dog sitting right here, she's 14. Um, so when the time comes, like I just like working online, makes so many things possible. And also, I think that the people I work with are getting results that they won't get in person, the additional size a lot, but like, that's good. It's a lot to have to drive to a gym or drive to whatever to go drive to a place. Just opening up a zoom session or opening up a class, it removes so many barriers, right? Like, there's so many courses that I've taken online that I and I got a great experience that I I wouldn't drive to a university and go through an enrollment process and all these things. Yeah.

28:11

Yeah, no, I love that. And I think because it is it's a true, you know, it's a real thing that people think, well, it's gonna be this loss if I move online, or I'm not in, you know, sitting in front of people, or whatever. And it's not really the case, because you connect to your point you connect with not only people, you know, maybe local, but people all over the world. And you have such a, you know, a great experience, I always tell people, you know, you actually build your course for the person who's sitting in front of you, right, like, pretend they're sitting in front of you, and you're and you're teaching them getting them results. But being able to do that, you know, globally with, you know, lots of different people, I agree is such an awesome experience. And that you can actually do it anywhere and you don't have to be in a particular location is definitely absolutely the game-changer.

Jaclyn Stover

And the timezone thing to like, I've had people who work, you know, like, they're 13 hours ahead and like it being online, it opens up like you can work with anyone, anywhere, and not have to be there in the moment for them. Like you're still accessible.

Tara Bryan

Yeah, one of my favorite stories, just as a sidebar is I had had somebody come up to me at a conference once and they're like, oh my gosh, the thing that you taught me today, like changed my whole world. And I was like, Did I talk to you today? Like, I haven't even seen you today? What are you talking about? He's like, Oh, I mean, the the video I watched in your course today, like changed my world. And I was like, oh, but that was for me the first moment that I was just like, Oh, I'm like actually making an impact when I'm not actually live with is that what I what I have created actually creates an impact and, and that was the moment for me that I knew that there was something about being able to have have something recorded or have an experience that was created that somebody could benefit from, even when I'm not there, right, like, I could be sleeping, I could be doing whatever else. But But when he said that I was like, Oh, yeah. Right. Like, it's not just about me recording my thing and putting it out there. It's about the fact that somebody can actually benefit from it and take action. From what I've just said, I'm not even, not even there. Yeah,

you, you get to help so many more people. And then also like your actions from three years ago, like I shared, I was on this podcast, I want to say it was like, three, three and a half years ago. And I still have people who come over from that podcast and like, sign up to work with me right away. And it's it's such a weird feeling when they tell me that that's where they came from. Because I'm like, we recorded this podcast on Anchor, like the podcasting thing. And, you know, it was just a phone call. And I want to say that it cut out at the beginning. But it's like, people were able to hear my story three and a half years ago and come to me, and it's just really cool. Because sometimes you do feel like putting stuff on the internet. Why am I doing this? Oh, look, you know, this Instagram post had 12 likes wonderful. But to hear that your work? Is still meaningful to someone? It? Yeah, it's amazing.

Tara Bryan

Yeah. Very cool. Okay, so, um, so, to making more main questions, the first one is, if you have like, what's your best advice for someone who's, who's creating, selling or launching their online course business? Like, what's your biggest piece of advice for them? If they're getting started? Or maybe they're there in it, and they're trying to figure out how to make it better?

Jaclyn Stover

Um, let's see, I guess. Okay, two things. One, if you're in it and trying to make it better, I think it's a really good idea to actually take your course and see what it's like. And you're like, oh, wow, like, this is like a 90 minute video, and I'm bored watching this, then baby. There's a course that I took that had so much information, like, why is all of this here? Like, have they looked at this in a while? Because it's like, it wasn't helping me take action. It was like, right. So that's one thing. The other thing too, though, like, if you're just starting, um, there's a tool that I give clients, and that is to think about the big picture, like, what is that big picture? And like, write that down? I'm big on writing, like, get stuff out of your head and get onto paper? I think we talked about this, use paper, right? So if on paper, but like, write down? What is the big thing? Like, why are you doing this? Who are you trying to help? And then right, like the small action steps, right? They need to be really small action steps, you might even need to break those down into small action steps. And then if you are so, you know, you feel like this work is really tedious. And you're doing a bunch of action steps, and you're getting lost, you need to connect to what is the big picture? What is that? So it kind of like, it can feel really overwhelming to do this stuff. And I think too, like it can feel really isolating. So if you just keep connecting back to like, Who are you trying to help? And what is that journey that they're on? You're being their you know, their guide? I think that that's really helpful. It's a lot like, I never, it is a lot to do all of this. I'm really glad that I did it. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when I started.

Tara Bryan

Yeah, yeah. Well, and it is. And that's the thing is breaking it down into small pieces. You know, that's just how you teach it to write like, you remember, what's the big picture? How do you break it down into the small steps or small pieces, and then just focus on how to take action within those pieces. Versus like all the things like you so so do it for yourself, get get it all out of your head, get it organized. But then also remember when you're teaching it, that it's the same thing, like your people are going through that same journey of trying to learn something, and they don't need all the things right. They don't need all the information than that, like you want to give them. And so yeah, so that's awesome advice is to remember, always remember why you're doing it, and then break it down into the smaller.

Jaclyn Stover

Yeah, can I add something on it? Um, I was listening to I think it was I think it was planet money. It was a podcast, and they were talking about talking about the economy and different things. They're talking about people being information averse, and I was like, that's me, I'm an information just give me the next bit of information because if you give me too much information, I get overwhelmed and I shut down. But like if I just the next piece, just the next piece, um, and there might be a lot of details that you don't actually have to share with me. I just need the next piece.

Tara Bryan

Well, and I think to your point too, is that is that they are the hero, you're the guide. And when you think about what they need, it's different than what you want to tell them. Right? Like guys, like I'm a beginner, I talk about all the things I'm excited and passionate about. But that person just needs that thing to move forward. And as a guide, that's your job. Yeah, to filter through Yeah, is to filter through all of this stuff. And, like, go find somebody who wants to geek out with you on the topic who's already at the same level that you are, but like, don't scare people.

Jaclyn Stover

That goes back to like that, like your customer. Your customer is a kindergartener, your customer is not a college student. They're a kindergartener when it comes to whatever they're learning from you. And then they're going to go to first grade and second grade, but like, they're a kindergartner when they come to you.

Tara Bryan

Yeah, yeah, it's funny. Because my next question is, is, as a busy mom, business owner, I always am looking for tips and tricks for how to maximize my energy, my time, my routines, my habits, all those different things. And so I know you're going to talk to me a little bit about self care and running. But before you do that, I my example for that, because I love that you just use the kindergarten example. But mine is like, you don't like decide to run a marathon and then go out and run 26 miles, right? Like, you start by just going for a walk, or, you know, maybe running down the block or running, you know, around the block or whatever, like, you can't get somebody to go from being on their couch to running a marathon. All in, you know, a very short period of time, you have to you know, you that's why you trained for it. That's why you take steps and you know, you build on your base. So that's the analogy that I usually use is like, you know, what, because most of the time people are like, What would never run 26 miles? Sure you would, if you every day, we're taking actions to do that. 26.2 Miles is not out of the realm of reality, if you're taking action to get there over time, right. So anyway, all right. So that was my sidebar, because you use that analogy, I'm giving another one. But same thing, right? Take the baby steps, give them the baby steps that they need to move forward to get to their ultimate goal, which, whatever that is that you have in your course. Okay, so routines, habits, other things that you can give our listeners that help. Just like how do you maximize performance? How do you maximize, like, your ability to do things, when you've got a million other things going on? Yeah,

um, this is always a work in progress. So let me not to, like say that I'm perfect at this. But, um, for me, I think that it's really important. So I start my morning with, okay, like some self care stuff. But it's important because it is really easy to leave your job being a teacher, or leave your job, being a nurse or working in the corporate world, and recreate that same crappy life while working on your own, which is something I fallen down so many times, is thinking, Oh, well, because I work for myself. And because grind culture, I shouldn't be working 80 hours a week, and I should hate this entire journey. And then it's like, just go get a job instead, if you're just if you're gonna hate everything easier to get a job, right, like, it's easier to just clock in and clock out than it is sometimes to do what we do.

Yeah. But, um, excuse me. Um, but yeah, like some self care stuff. And then we'll talk about like business stuff. But like, I we start every morning, my husband and I, we take our dog for a walk around the block. And it's really important that we do this. So that one, we're, you know, taking care of her. And I'm being a good dog mom, but to like for us that were taking time to be with each other. And they were outside in nature, and we're away from technology. And I think this became even more important during the pandemic, like, we're not watching CNN for 24 hours a day, at least we'll get 10 minutes away from what's happening in the world. So I think that that is really important. And that's something that I, you know, I tell my clients to do, like, go take a walk like I know, I know, you think you need to tend your hair, your kids, but can ask your husband to watch the kids while you go take a walk in the morning is just so important. It's good for your physical health, your mental health, everyone, everyone should start their day with that. And then I also start with reading a book, I'll read for either 10 minutes or 10 pages, it kind of depends on the density of the book. It's a really dense science book that I'm reading, I'm reading for 10 minutes, if it's more fun, and it's easy to digest, I'll read 10 pages, but just having that. I do that every day. And I write and I journal like my intentions for the day affirmations, all the self help stuff that everyone says. But my goal again is to make it quick. So it's not that it's something that I dread and take up a lot of time, I also think to what's been really helpful for me is I'm being intentional about this is what I'm doing during my work hours when I'm working on my business, not in the business, right like in is that right in the businesses, like if you're helping, like working with people on building it, I'm being intentional, like I'm doing that I'm not checking social media right now, I'm not checking my email right now, I'm not scrolling on my phone, put the phone away. So it's not a trigger to like, turn to it. And noticing, like, if I am wanting to get up to turn to my phone, maybe I just need to go take a walk. That's actually probably going to help me clear my brain more than numbing myself and also feeling like I'm not far enough ahead by comparing myself to people on social media. Yeah, and then, um, but yeah, I'm really, really big. My mind is really scatterbrained I go all over the place. So I have to I write everything down on paper. I know people are big on technology, but like, anytime I can use my pen to paper, it just helps me in being able to cross things off and get like, is it dopamine? I don't know what you get when you accomplish a task. Yeah, so that's really important to me. Um, and I think she actually got it from Donald Miller. But at the end of the work day, even just crossing things off, but writing down what I got done, and how that moved me forward. And is there anything I need, like what, like, what's on for tomorrow? The last thing, it's maybe not, it's kind of, I don't know, if it's about maximizing, but it's just about, like, this self care piece of like, closing the computer and closing the phone. Um, I read this thing with time where they're, like, you know, back in the 90s, or early 2000s, you logged off of a computer, you logged off of AOL, right? And you were done. But now, we're, you're always on and so closing everything down. And my husband, I, we, we go to a gym in the day. And that really helps me like, if I have tightness in my chest, it helps relieve that. But like, that's been something I think, especially while working from home, during the pandemic, it's really easy to be connected constantly. Um, but again, going back to I don't want to be connected constantly, because it just overwhelms me. And I feel again, I'm like, I like I need, I need to close my brain on these things. And I need to, like participate in the marriage that I'm in or live in the city that I'm in. It's important that if I'm building something, and I, you know, I don't know what's gonna come like, in the next few years, I do have like, different visions of like, where I could go with things, but I want to make sure that whatever it is, I'm building is something that, you know, I believe in, but also I enjoy it. Like, I really, I want to enjoy the life that I'm living. And again, not make it the crappy life that I had a decade ago.

Tara Bryan

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. It's funny one, something that came up for me when you were talking is, is a sense of, you know, when we were working offline, or you know, had, you know, face to face groups or whatever, like, there was a time that those that was over, right, like, you would say, Well, I, I'm doing this workshop, or I'm in class, or I'm in, you know, at my job until this time, and then you physically he would get up and go, you know, or they would leave or whatever. And in the online space, we don't really have that. So it's so true, what you're saying that, like, you have to log out. And it's funny when you said that, it wasn't like, I'm like, I can hear that. Right. But, um, but how important that is to our work is, is doing that in? And that's so fascinating, because I don't think that I've even thought about that, in the sense of how do I log out of working with my clients for the day? How do I separate myself, so even if they're sending me a text, or they're sending me a boxer or whatever they're doing? I'm not, I'm not even present to that outside of the time that are, you know, that are my working hours, which is another part of the problem is we don't really have working hours when we're doing it online. But But that's so fascinating to think about, how do we log off? What does that look like? Whether it's putting the phone down? Or, you know, literally logging out of our computer and setting those boundaries in terms of when we're working when we're not working?

Tara Bryan

Yeah, yeah, boundaries. That's been a big conversation lately with people is like learning to set boundaries. You only learn that you need to set a boundary once you feel like your boundary has been crossed. Right. And

yeah, then you're like, This doesn't feel good anymore. Yeah, yeah. All right. Cool. All right. So what's one book resource or tool that you would recommend to our listeners? I know you talked about story brand from Donald Miller, any any other books or tools or resources? You love as helping you through this experience?

Jaclyn Stover

Yeah, I am really big on Donald Miller and I will say his book business made simple. I really liked it, it goes through 60 days. And that's kind of like what inspired me in the course that I made. So it's 60 days and there's 60 videos that go with it. Um, I the structure of that really helped me I don't know that there was always something an actionable tip that you could complete during that day. So it was something that I had to change. But seeing that and being a student of that course I think it like yeah, it's good. Yeah.

Tara Bryan

Very cool. All right. Awesome. And where can our listeners find you online when they are looking for your solution? Yeah, so

Jaclyn Stover

a couple places one the podcast is called actually you are real runner, and Tara will be a guest on it in September so check for that episode. Yeah, we talked about running just really cool. So that's the podcast and then the website is systems for self care calm. Um, there's blogs on there. There's a free course on moderation with food called moderation made easy. And then my Instagram is Jacqueline dot Rico. Jeff Stover.

Tara Bryan

Awesome, very cool. All right. Well, there you go. There you have it. You got all sorts of great tips and advice today from Jaclyn. So thank you for being on our show. We appreciate it. Go and look in the show notes for all of her details so you can get a hold of her. And until next time, have a great day.