Guest Speaker Series: Evans Putman

Hey, everybody is Tara Bryan and you are listening to the course building secrets podcast. Whether you're a coach or a CEO, the success of your team and clients is based on your ability to deliver a consistent experience and guide them on the fastest path to results. This podcast will give you practical real life tips that you can use today to build your online experiences that get results and create raving fans. Why? So you can monetize your expertise and serve more people without adding more time or team to your business? If you're looking to uncover your million dollar framework, package it and use it to scale you're in the right place. Let's dive in.

Hey, everybody, welcome to the course building secrets podcast. I am so excited to introduce you today to Evans Putman. He is going to give us some awesome tips and tricks for all things, podcasting and courses. So welcome, Evans, I'm so happy to have you here. Give us a little bit of a sense for who you are and what you are up to.

Sure, absolutely. Well, I I help podcasting entrepreneurs, create million dollar businesses and change more lives with what we call our podcast, Sales Machine blueprint. So I'm a coach and consultant, I would like to work with entrepreneurs with big positive messages and missions. And just for your audience, since we're talking about courses, to give you an idea where the podcast Sales Machine blueprint came from, who was actually in my previous business, where we went from zero to half a million in 12 months selling digital courses through a podcast. So we came up with an actual system. And it's all nice and pretty right now. But back then it was like just sort of fumbling through and finding our way but, but that's how I sort of made my name in the business was growing a podcast 250,000 monthly listeners and then putting in a system to build relationships with our leads, and then to sell digital courses. And now I actually teach how to sell high ticket products and offers through products and you can sell high ticket courses, courses, the podcasts also.

Yeah, love it. Love it. Love it. Okay, I cannot wait to dive into this conversation for so many different reasons. Okay, so first of all, so you started by packaging expertise is that so you when you went down kind of that course route, where you just sort of just packaging what you were doing, and then figured out that you had the superpower in getting clients to podcast is so like,

sort of the other way around. It was the other way around. Really. I I was I worked with a partner at the time. My partner already had a podcast, his name is Pat Hyde. And we were in real estate. So it was we sold real estate sales training eventually. But when we first met, he was just I've got this podcast. He had a best selling book. He had the knowledge he had had the experience of being number one in the world for two different companies. I think REMAX and Keller Williams very successful career. And now you wanted to give back, right? So he started a podcast, it wasn't really growing, he didn't have a big audience. And we just by the power of the universe, we just randomly collect connected. Turned out we were in the same city. So we met and when I sat down with him that day, because I come from I was a marketing consultant and strategist. And so I come from that idea of like, there's a lot more here than just a podcast. So I started picking his brain. I'm like, What do you really want to do, Pat? What is it you really want to do? And he's like, Well, what I'd really like to do is one continue to share my message through the podcast, but to show others how to have the successful business and family life that I had, because he had actually created sold a billion with a B billion dollars worth of real estate by working like three and a half days a week so he could spend time with his two daughters and his wife. So he wanted to share that in courses. And that's what I sort of picked from his brain in our first meeting. And I was like, give me the weekend. And let's get back together. I'm going to put together an entire plan on how we're going to turn this thing into something amazing. So that's how it started. And we were just, but at the time what was funny is I'm like I don't really know anything about podcasts. I don't know how to like grow a podcast, I know about marketing. But now how am I going to connect the dots with everything and that's where it started to get sort of not fun and fun at the same time. Right? Right.

I always I love that. So, okay, so you took your skills, and you said, Okay, I can do something with this. This is there's, there's an opportunity here, which is, which is amazing. And I think that so talk a little bit about, like, traditionally, when you think about a podcast and starting a podcast, you're you're just connecting with people, maybe you have some ads, or maybe you are, you know, you have a third party who you're, you know, they're, they're sponsoring your show, or whatever is their traditional model. And you said, I'm gonna, like, dumped us on its head and really use a podcast as a as a primary sales tool. So for organic, I assume organic reach mostly right? Absolutely. Yeah. So so. So how did you like, get there with that, like, so you sat down, and you're just like, this is I'm going to use this, this method to, to run with,

right. And it was, it was sort of a long, you know, things didn't happen immediately. It was a little bit of a long runway at first, but I looked at it from I came from sort of a background of content marketing, so I just looked at it. Okay, I do know how to grow traffic for websites for businesses through content. So why don't I just do the same thing with the podcasts. So I sort of applied went parallel, instead of trying to do something totally different. I took what I knew, and tried to apply it to podcast growth. And to be honest with you, when it comes to the courses, we grew first, we focused on growing first because let's build the audience. Let's make sure it's the right audience. And I'll give you some sort of strategies on that in a minute or tactics if you want me to. But while we were growing, to go back to your first question about the the ads and the sponsors, we didn't have a big enough audience to worry about being approached by that yet. We did later, but not yet. So we started sort of inserting our own commercials in the podcast. And we quickly found out that people didn't like that, right. They were like, no, don't like it quit interrupting, you got some and they were telling us like you, you deliver such amazing content that's so valuable for me. But then all of a sudden, even though it was ourselves selling our own thing, they were just like, I didn't come here to be sold to I came here to get value to get help to sort of get the strategies and things I need to do in my business. So that was like, Clue Number one, listen to our audience is like quit doing what we're doing. Because by the way, it's not working either. We might get one sale every three or four weeks. But we're like, we need more revenue for this. So we actually stopped selling and started making sales. So that was the crazy thing. I do this long journey.

That's right. Like that's a big, big epiphany right there.

Yeah, exactly. And for everybody listening, that's a really, I mean, for us now what we teach in podcast, Sales Machine, and podcast Sales Machine blueprint is to actually don't worry about the sales in the content, the content is actually in your podcast content is designed not to just pummel people with information either it's designed to create a transformation, right to help your listener be who they need to be to do the thing they wish to do. And guess who provides the thing they wish to do? That you and your courses and whatever you're, you know, if you're coaching, your coaching services, whatever it is you do. So we created what we call the dream client content creation framework, where you just basically give them a belief and help transform their beliefs. So they can be successful because I'm sure terror as your audience knows, when it comes to courses, you can give them the best course in the world that is proven to work again and again and again. But if they're not ready for that success, it doesn't matter how good your courses, it doesn't matter how good your program is, or anything, they're not going to get the success. So for us, we start looking at the podcasts needs to be designed. First, you have people way over here who are being attracted into your world to come listen to your podcast. But once they're there, start creating your dream client, your dream customer, help them be who they need to be, because then you never run out of customers. If you create them. I mean, imagine that, like if you can just start creating customers at will. You don't have to worry about it anymore about cash flow because you're actually focused on the right things. So that's what I sort of mean by selling without selling. And then what we actually did was we did literally quit promoting our products. We Actually, we had one thing that we sent people to from our podcasts. And it was what we called our agent success toolbox. It was sort of like a lead magnet on steroids, right? Where it was a free members area with all these actionable items that they could use to get closer to their desired result, right, but to get a real world result, and by giving them quick wins like that, that just sort of strengthen that trust, right? So you're creating the belief helping them create their own self belief in the podcast content, then they come get your free thing. And they get like a result. So now they're starting to really believe it, because they're feel they're seeing the results are happening. And then they're like, Ooh, I bet this person can really help me, what's that thing that they sell? And that's where they come to you. So you're no longer really selling? They're just coming to you and saying, hey, I want your thing.

Mm hmm. That's so powerful. That's awesome. I love that. One. I think that so if we just move backwards from it, and I can't wait to get to your tips and tricks and like what you recommend to people, but like, for those people who are just maybe starting a podcast? What What would you say is like the biggest thing that they should do when they're starting? Is it to think strategically like that? Or is it? Do they have to find their voice first? Or, like, what's your biggest recommendation for people?

Well, one, just get started, right? Because you know, is my partner Michelle often says, my business partner, you know, to Tara, she often says, like, if you if you launch your podcasts, and it sounds professional and perfect right away, then you waited too long, right. But what I do recommend to people, there's two things one, start going and getting on podcasts, right become a guest on podcast, because there's two there's a different reasons why one, you get comfortable with your message. And sharing and being in this environment is something brand new, so you get comfortable, but to you get to sort of see how other people conduct their podcasts when they're doing interviews, and what kind of you know what it feels like, and you're like, Oh, I sort of liked the way that person did this, I'm going to keep, you know, make a mental note and then jot it down afterwards. So it gives you sort of, instead of just diving headfirst into something brand new, it gives you like an idea of what it feels like a little bit to be a part of it. And then also, we tell people start listening to podcasts, but don't listen from the entertainment value. Don't listen for maybe even the educational value listen from the point of what did they do there? Oh, that's what they did on their intro, I like how they transition to their call to action at the end. So you start listening that way. But then at the same time, as you're doing that you really want to get honed in on what who is the we call it the power of one who's that one dream client that I really want to work with. Because what's gonna happen is your message is gonna attract a lot of people, you can't control who comes and listens to your podcast. But you can use that content, as we said, to create that dream client, you can use it to also maybe push away the non dream clients, right? And so start thinking about who is that exact ideal person that I want to work with? What is the big result that I know I can give them? And then start thinking about what are the things that usually keep them stuck? What are the false beliefs, the objections, and think of it from that point of view, and you can really come up with some cool content that can help them so that would be my suggestions on that. And I would also say, this is a big one. Don't worry about the technology. Right? Like we were joking before we came on, is it okay? I share the emulator as you were, you're asking me about my microphone, and I'm like, it was $100. Right. And I have like a little foam thing on top of my microphone, which costs like 25 cents or something. We were laughing like just put a sock on it, you could probably get the same result. And it's I think people get hung up on that a lot to where they think, Oh, I've gotta have this studio. I gotta have this perfect setup. It's like no, I literally, I have like a $200 webcam. Of course I have a decent computer but I have and I have zoom and I have $100 microphone and maybe another $50 worth of accessories attached to it. So as you grow, you can change and upgrade if you want to. But the tech stuff is really easy. If you don't overcomplicate it and you really I mean literally I have USB cords that plug in. And that's it. So I try to keep things as simple as possible. And there's a reason why to that marketing. Keep it as simple as possible. Your processes keep it as simple as possible. Your setup for your podcast, keep it as simple as possible because then when something breaks, it's easier to find the best One thing, there's only like three or four steps, right? So that's one reason why our podcast Sales Machine blueprint is actually only four. There's only like four major pillars, four steps to get you the end result. So you can take it move quickly implement it quickly. And then you can start going deeper, you know, with mastery once you get the process in place. But yeah, it's just focus on the simple stuff first.

Yeah, love that. Well, and the other thing is, is that it leads to, I mean, you know, a lot of times podcasts, it's just audio, you're not actually seeing, you know, seeing people on video. But it leads to that authenticity, as far as I'm concerned, right, as part of doing a podcast is, so people get to know, like, and trust you. Right. And when you show up it without worrying about, you know, over engineering it or, or, you know, all those things that you just mentioned, it just I think, in my opinion, it helps people connect and know that, you know, you're not just sitting on some hilltop, you know, by, you know what I mean? Like, just out in the world, like, you're actually, you know, here to make a difference. You're here to make a connection. Yeah, that's why that's why you're, you know, you're doing what you're doing. And, and so, yeah, but I, you know, I love good equipment I love, you know, like, MacGyvering it too, right? Where it's like, oh, I just need this random thing.

Right. Yeah, right. Yeah. But yeah, I would say I mean, the biggest thing is, you know, to I'm sure is like with when you're starting, when you have a course idea, the first step is just actually start. Right, you just have to start moving forward and think about one step at a time. And everything will fall into place. Alright, don't worry about the expectation of the big result on the end. And if you start thinking, I know, I think we've both had similar coaches through through time. And one of my favorites is Myron golden. And he always says, you know, don't, don't start asking that how. Just decide you're going to do something and start moving in that direction. Don't think about the house, because the hell brings up all the roadblocks and all the obstacles, and you'll just, you'll derail your success easily.

Yep. Yeah. And that's such a powerful lesson because, you know, that's, that's the hardest thing is just to get started and take that imperfect action. And, and, in like, when it comes to a podcast in particular, I know my you know, a little bit about my journey, but I literally just decided one day, like, alright, well, I don't want to be on video because I have to do my hair. And I don't want to write a blog, because that just seems like it's too difficult. So I might as well just do podcasting because I can talk. And I literally just started talking is really what I did for the first what, like 150 episodes or something. I was like, I'm just gonna show up and talk and like, share my thing. And but the hardest part was, I mean, I think I recorded the first episode, like 10 times. Right? And I was like, I just was telling my story of who I was in that first episode. And it took me like 10 tries. And I was like, what? Why is it so hard? It mud, it was just the getting started. And then I fell in love with it. And like I, I love it, I still, you know, have such a great time interviewing guests. And, you know, showing up and giving value to my people. But But yeah, it's so true that it's just that, taking that first step. And then to your point, and I love the way that you think about this as just being really strategic about using it as as a sales tool, because it's really about drawing people to you. And that's all sales is sales doesn't have to be this big, elaborate thing. It's just inviting people in finding the right people repelling the wrong people. And then you know, having them be a part of what you are offering.

Yeah, and when I'll tell you one of the biggest I mean, just simplify it all down, what we really did was we stopped worrying about the transaction and started thinking about the relationship. Right. And we and one thing I'll give everybody a big tip when it comes to monetization, this is something that we share now is even if you're doing just a if you're just selling digital courses, that's fine. But what you want to do at some point and we did this with a Facebook group for hours to start, was you want to move from a one way conversation to a two way right create the human connection because everybody wants to be acknowledged, seen celebrated, right? And if you're speaking just to them all the time through the podcast, that's great if you're giving great value and you're serving, but what they really want to do is they want to connect with you. So even if you just if you have a course and you have some sort of hey, we've got this private group that goes along with our course which is similar to what we did, then you can bring people over and we would do like you know, zooms where they could come on and they could ask a question. But really, they just wanted that extra connection. And that's really huge because there's so many, the one of the biggest monetization mistakes out there now is not moving. From the one way discussion one way conversation to the two way conversation with your dream clients dream customers, because that'll be huge. Because then the great thing that happens is, is that not only do they feel connected and bonded with you emotionally, and they trust you, they start really liking you even more and telling more people about you, and referring people to you. So they become your biggest your best customers, your best repeat buyers and your biggest fans. And when you start doing that, you can't lose. And I tell people all the time, like the biggest if you if we're talking when we talk about podcast growth, which I'm happy to share a little bit about tactics around that. But like one of the biggest things I tell people all the time is the biggest key is don't lose a lot of lists. Right? When you get them, treat them, well engage with them, ask them questions through the podcast, give it we used to have people actually be able to communicate with us, we read their emails, on the podcast, we talk about them, we'd say, hey, we just got this great review from so and so blah, blah, blah, we'd read it. Or I mean, we even read emails where people wrote in and told us they wanted us to quit selling in the podcast. So we acknowledge them, we showed that they were heard and seen and acknowledged, and then we would celebrate them too. We'd bring on people that took our courses. And they had like some success, we'd interview them on the podcast, and celebrate it, make it all about them. So that was cute. That was huge for us. Because when we think about what most people don't think about, right, like the sales and world, it's in when you have a business, you know, it's really smarter to keep your clients and customers because it's less expensive than having to constantly timewise money wise going out and getting more. But it's the same things with podcast listeners, people are always like, how did you grow to averaging 150,000 listeners every month, I was like, well, because we didn't lose a lot. Every month, we weren't constantly once we climbed the hill and started rolling downhill, we didn't have to like keep pushing back up the hill again. So that's what's really key is to get if you treat them right, and if you move them to a two way conversation, like in a group, or even if you're just taking people and saying hey, I've got this weekly zoom networking call, I'd love to meet you, talking to your listeners, bring them on and just get to know them and find out what they need to do. They will stay as like the foundation of your audience, which means you'll never have to like constantly rebuild and constantly rebuild.

Okay, so that's fascinating. So what you're saying is have a two way conversation by by moving them into maybe even like a group call not just a free Facebook group or into the toolbox or whatever else. It's how do you how do you take them from just listening to being a part of the conversation? That's That's great.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's in like, what we do now is we have a lot of our clients, they use masterclasses, they use virtual events, they use challenges, you know, like the old way of just doing a webinar where you're just then you're just speaking to them again. But if you can bring people on, like a zoom, and everybody knows zoom nowadays, right? Everybody can use Zoom or before they maybe didn't, but you can get them on that. And it can be as we have a client that does just a simple weekly, like sort of coffee call. Right? And that's it. She invites, she's a coach and she she helps new coaches get their first five clients. So she helps people sort of transition from the nine to five world they have this calling this sort of urge I want to be a coach now. They come over and she helps them get their first five clients, but she started realizing shit, her podcast was actually bringing her these high ticket clients. But she was like, you know, I want to sort of do a little bit more, but I don't want to do a full on challenge. I don't want to do a full on like, two day virtual event. And she was like, why don't I just have like a coffee call where every Monday this is set time and my listeners can come, they can show up. My clients can come my prospects can come and we just jump on Zoom. And we help each other out for an hour right? It's not all about her teaching. It's all about just connecting, collaborating and helping each other out. And she's like, I'm actually getting as a side benefit. I'm getting more clients that way than I am through like my sales funnel. She has the traditional sort of listen to podcast come over here watch a case study video, book a call kind of thing right but Now she's like, I'm loving this because it's much more natural. And here's the thing that a lot of people don't realize that she's actually getting to look her prospects in the eye, communicate with them, see how they interact with others? Do I really want them in my group program? If they're not, if they don't play well with others, right? So it creates such a great positive experience for both sides. And they get to look at her and get to experience her a little bit more like do I really want to spend money to work with her? So it's, it's just all about human connection? Right. We I think we've gotten all in the world of, you know, what color is your button on your landing page?

Like, yes. And it's all just about connection. Yeah, yeah.

Conversations, like you said, You love to have conversations, conversations, collaboration, connection. I mean, if you focus on those things in your podcasts, you're not going to lose.

That's awesome. All right. But I'm just telling everybody right now, based on what Evans just said, I'm going to start having coffee chats. So I will put something out there because I love that idea. And I think one of the things that I don't like about the podcast is I look at the stats, and I look at you know, there's so many people who are listening, and I don't know who they are, right? I'm not, I'm not able to obviously see what those you know, who is behind those numbers. So I love that. It's like, that's like the idea of the day right there. So everybody writes are doing that. But I'm telling all my listeners right now, I'm going to start doing that. So look for that coming up. Because I love love, love that. Love that idea. All right. What other magic do you have to share with us today about, about your expertise in what you're doing? And, and all the things?

Well, what I would say to, you know, when it comes to because here's the funny thing, when we do our podcast, Sales Machine blueprint, when people come to our master class, because we teach it live once a month, and we actually, in the master class, and I'll tell a funny story here in a second just to be vulnerable, if it's okay, but in the master class, right, we, we actually tell people's like, when you come, it's not going to just be a bunch of fluff. And we're just like, you know, throw in a bunch of fire hosing you with information. One, we focus on the what we practice what we preach, right, we focus on helping people create the belief, the belief in themselves, the belief in the system, the belief in us that we can help them. So that's like a three keys for your, your listeners now through their podcast, through their marketing, whatever it is, if you can, if you can get people to believe in themselves that they can do the thing. Believe in your system. See that? It's like ooh, yeah, I could use that and be successful, like there's other people and then believe that you can help them get that result faster and easier. Then it's game over. Right? You've won and that's, you know, just to be up front. If anybody comes to our masterclass, that's what we're gonna be doing. But we actually help people build out their podcast Sales Machine blueprint in that masterclass, so they leave with it. But the funny thing is, is that people come and you know, we talk about we're gonna teach you how to sell high ticket 5k. and up through there, it could be a 5k and up course, it can be a coaching program, whatever. So we go through and we're gonna teach you how to grow big audience, etc. But when they do our, our pillars of our podcast, Sales Machine blueprint, it's like pillar one, pillar two, they're like, Okay, well, what about the audience? Pillar three in the audience doesn't come till the end. Because what we discovered was, if you have to figure out like if you start focusing on growth, because this is what I did wrong when I built ours, right, we built to get to tell everybody, here's like the honest truth. At one point, we had 75,000 monthly listeners, and we were about to shut down the business because we weren't making money. Because one, we were just, it was almost like Facebook likes and you know, Twitter followers, we were just gathering listeners, we weren't getting we weren't gathering the right listeners. And we weren't helping them become who they needed to be. We weren't creating our dream clients. So we sort of flipped it. When I finally figured it out. And we're like, Okay, now that we've got the the system in place, we know who we want to talk to, we know how we're going to help them. We know what kind of content we can create in our podcast, we got to go out and find them now find the right people. So we teach the audience growth strategies last and one tip I already gave your listeners and I'll give it again, is to get on other podcasts. This is for you if you are a podcaster because guess what? People who listen to podcasts, listen to podcasts, right? It's like they're already raising their hand in saying I like listening but we teach people the smart way. And the thing is, is to go out and you know, look at podcast and find the ones that are not your question. competitors, but they can, you know, be collaborators that can have sort of you know that, that fit with you. But maybe don't sell the exact same thing as you but have the same audience and get on those shows. also listen to the podcast and see if the host is good at getting his audience to take his or her audience to take action. Right? If they have a call to action, pay attention to what that flow looks like. Right? Go look at their reviews, not for the sake of vanity, right? Because you could have like it reviews are great, but the thing about reviews is that shows that their audience is engaged. So we would rather have an engaged audience that's really good at taking action, rather than just a big audience. Alright, so that's what you want to look for when you're growing your podcast and growing your business. Even if you don't have a podcast and you want to get people to your course, start looking at podcasts that way, right? Because it's really that's the smart way to grow your audience. But then also, we did things like adding, you know, I told you, I came from a content background, we did things like grabbing the podcast episodes, the actual like player, and placing content all around the internet written content, like blog posts, articles and dropping, not a link, but dropping the actual episode player in there so people could listen because people we found if they got hooked in by the headline, and they read a couple sentences, and it sort of led them to listen, next not read the whole thing. Just go ahead. And listen, it's the fastest easiest way, then that upped our numbers, and it brought people over. But here's the principle behind why that really works is podcast content is evergreen. Right? It stays out there for unless you pull it down, like the ones you did your first one that you took five, six times. It's still out there unless you've took it down, right? It's still going. And I use this analogy a lot in our masterclass where I'm like, if you focus all your energy on social media, which seems like that's the easy way, it's really the much harder way, because social media is like having a cup that has tiny holes in it. And as you pour water in it, it you have to keep pouring and pouring and pouring because the newsfeed things fall off and they disappear. But guess what happens when you use like the written content that's out there, the blog posts, the web pages, that's SEO that's evergreen, it stays out there forever. So as you build that, it just continues to deliver, deliver, deliver, deliver. So it feels like it's the harder path, but it's actually the easier path.

And I think the thing I wanted to share with you this has absolutely nothing to do with anything except for going back to your podcasts when you said your first one that you had to do it over and over again. The funny thing is, is today I had to record like a one to two minute, like video on my phone, just sharing something nice and simple. It took me like 30 minutes to do it because I was thinking too much about it. So I just felt like I needed to share that to let everybody know, it's like it doesn't matter. If you're brand new. If you've been doing this for a while you still have those moments. So just just do it. Right. Just get out there and do it.

Yeah, people don't need to know how many times it takes to

write. And they won't know Right? They won't they won't have any idea. They'll think Oh, that. And the funny thing is too is you you will hear like when you do your podcast episodes, I'm sure you're like, oh, I should have said this here. Oh, I can't believe I'd like coughed right there, whatever. And but nobody else hears that. They just hear the value. They can they can connect with your authenticity. They connect with your intention. So if you're being authentic in your intend to serve, that's the energy they feel they don't feel they don't hear the mistakes or things like because they don't know it's a mistake. They have no idea. So quick be in your worst enemy, which we all tend to be

exactly. Awesome. All right. Well, this has been so amazing. You have just dropped so many awesome. Just pieces of value. I can't I can't even so if you are listening to this, go back and listen to it again. Because Evans just shared so much awesomeness with us. Alright, so one question I always ask is what book resource or tool do you recommend for our listeners? That has been helpful in your journey and why?

Oh my gosh, but I love books as a pot. Here's the thing about podcasters if you have a book, go on podcast book tours, because I could show you I wish I do usually like we do this sometimes where Michelle and I laugh she brings me on and I'll have like five stacks of books that I've bought over the last like month. Yeah, from podcasts. Right. So I would say definitely if you're an author, make sure you go on podcasts and sell your book But I'm looking for the book of it, it's a book called oversubscribed is a book that I would definitely buy, um, hold on one second. I'll just tell you real quick the guy's name is Daniel Priestley, I just wanted to make sure I could spell it right Daniel Priestley, in the books called over subscribed, it will get you thinking quite different about, it's basically about creating your own tribe of people that will just come back again and again and again, but also how to sell out your courses, your events, your, you know, coaching programs are whatever they are way before they even come out. So there's always a waiting list, always there ready to continue to buy. And if you use that impair the things that you learn in that with having a podcast, it'll just be you know, you'll, you'll crush it, but you can use that in any, that book is perfect for no matter what you're doing. If you're just, if you are a course creator, and you're selling through, you know, a webinar, if you're selling through like an unboxing, funnel, whatever it is you're doing, just having that book is going to be really, really valuable to get you thinking a little bit differently about how you promote, and how you never have to worry about people, you know, going out and finding people because you basically create a waiting list that's just there all the time.

Hmm, I love that. And that's a new book I'm so excited about because we haven't heard that one before. So thanks. Oh, good. I have to go right out and get it because I also have that stack of books that you know, are on my list of things to read. So Alright, awesome. And where can our listeners find out more about you? Your your masterclass that you do? And your podcasts and all of that?

Yeah, well, I would say just because I like to keep it simple as I would tell everybody, there's the fun thing is, is to come to our master class, you get to spend four hours with me, not four hours of me talking to you. Before hours of us like having fun, interacting, engaging, you get to ask questions. And it's more. I mean, four hours go by and like the blink of an eye. But as Michelle and myself, my business partner, Michelle, who has amplify you podcast agency, we run that together. So I would say come there, get yourself a free ticket, you don't have to pay for tickets, you can get the VIP upgrade and come hang out with us for an extra couple hours and get like problem solved and questions answered, which is really powerful. But that's it, podcast sales. machine.com. So I would say just for your listeners, just go to podcast, Sales Machine comm we do one every month. So I don't I don't, I no longer do discovery calls and things like that, because I get to connect with everybody through that. So definitely come to that and hang out. And um, you know, we'll get to know you from there and build that two way connection and help you out and serve

you. Awesome. I love that. All right, go check that out. I'm gonna go to the next one, too. So if you want to come with me, then go sign up, because I'm going to go check that one out, too. All right. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure to have you on today. I appreciate you taking the time to give us such great information. And to our listeners. Have a great rest of your day.

Yeah, thank you very much. I'll have a good one.