Guest Interview: Holly Homer - Taking Early & Imperfect Action Pays Off!

Hey everybody, it's Tara Bryan and you are listening

to the Course Building Secrets® podcast. Whether you're a coach

or a CEO, the success of your team and clients is based on

your ability to deliver a consistent experience and guide

them on the fastest path to results. This podcast will give

you practical real life tips that you can use today to build

your online experiences that get results and create raving fans.

Why? So you can monetize your expertise and serve more people

without adding more time or team to your business? If you're

looking to uncover your million dollar framework, package it and

use it to scale you're in the right place. Let's dive in. Hey,

everybody, welcome to today's episode of the Course Building

Secrets® podcast. I am so thrilled to introduce you to

Holly Homer today. She is our special guest on today's show.

And welcome, Polly, we're so happy to have you here. I am so

excited to introduce you to all of the things, all of the

knowledge, all of the wonderful things that Holly is going to

bring to the table today. So welcome, Holly.

Thank you. I'm like so excited to be here. And way

too long since I've seen you last. Let's just get that out

there. Yeah,

totally. Alright, so we're going to talk a little bit

about how we know each other. But first, Holly give us a

little bit of a rundown of who you are, what you're about. And

and what you're a small part of are a big part of the online

world is always

a huge part. I invented the internet, and said

no, I'm like super low tech. And about 20 years ago, I

accidentally started what I now know, was one of the first mom

blogs. And so while that started out as a hobby and a kind of a

way to replace a very expensive scrapbooking habit. It has grown

into my full time business and it supports my family. And

through the years of that, and the the various renditions of

the sites that I have managed or run is that, you know, I learned

how to, you know, search engine optimization, because it's

really expensive to hire someone I learned, you know, kind of

overcoming algorithms, I'm a grew a really big Facebook page,

have a really big Pinterest account, you know, work on

Instagram, and all these other places. And so over the time,

you start seeing these patterns of how pretty much any algorithm

is the same, it just has little different tweaks, I suppose I

have a suspicion that they're all run by the same person in

the basement of some dark buildings. But currently, my my

main site is kids activities, blog, fun things to do with your

kids and resources for parents. And that led me to about two

years ago to with a partner, Rachel Miller to create a

software called Pagewheel that can you can make a digital

product like a workbook or a checklist or something that you

want to give away or sell. And then based on what you make in

there, it creates a sales page, the delivery page, the email and

all the social media that you might want to use to promote it

all using AI.

That's awesome. All right. So there's so much to

unpack there. So I so I will tell you all, as you're as

you're listening to Holly today, she's gonna have tons of awesome

tips and tricks for you as you're building and expanding

your business. But she and I met how many years ago? Has it been

like six year?

Yeah, maybe five? I don't think it was quite six.

Yeah,

I don't know. Well, there's that sort of like COVID

area that we just like don't even our brains like

this left.

COVID way before COVID. So we were in a

mastermind together, learning more kind of marketing and sales

techniques of how to, you know, really blow up online

businesses. And so I feel like we have gone back, like, to the,

like, the dark ages of the internet, right? Like, learning

all this stuff. And so I love watching your journey of what

you're doing. So the first thing I want to start with, I'm super

excited to talk about your, your software that you have. But the

first thing is like so when you started to build them on blog

and like, get it to the place where it is today. Talk a little

bit about like, how did you how did you build an audience like

how did you get people interested? How did you What

techniques did you have for keeping them engaged in the blog

and getting them to come back over and over again, like, talk

to us a little bit about that process? Because I think, you

know, when you're starting an online business, one of the

hardest things to do is to really start to like attract the

right people who are in your world and who are coming back

and like, constantly a part of what you're doing. So talk to

our audience a little bit about that. Yeah.

And first of all, it's been a really long journey. You

know, it's one of those things that people are like, Oh, my

goodness, you have such a big site. And I'm like, yeah, like,

but we're talking 20 years work behind it. And I think I want to

say that upfront, because like, everybody starts with zero to

one follower, you know, that first one is a really, really

big, a big deal. And don't discount that, because every

single person starts there. And so that I did start with like, I

literally, I remember, I remember, it was three weeks of

me into blogging that I got my first comment that wasn't my

mother, or my grandma, or my best friend. And so and when

that happened, like, well, first of all, I had no idea that other

people blog because I'm that dense. But like you think about

it, that's a really big deal, as somebody stopped what they were

doing on the internet, and interact and engage with you.

And so, you know, what, even though like, everything has

changed, you know, that was pre Facebook, pre Twitter, pre

everything. And we had no social media posts or media back then.

But everything has changed yet everything is the same. And so

the the engagement really comes from being human, which, you

know, is one of the reasons why, like, AI is awesome tool, but I

don't think it's I'm, you know, my job is in jeopardy, because

it has a really hard time being Holly or being human. And so

people come to, to social media, to engage with others to be

social. If they wanted, like a super glossy performance of some

sort, they would go to Netflix, or Hulu or something like that,

they are actually on social media to be interactive with

other people and to find people who are who are similar to

themselves. And so that's where I love this whole, you know,

kind of authenticity, movement that's been happening in the

last few years, is like, stop trying to be what you think you

should be, and start being yourself. Because number one,

it's a lot easier to keep up over it. And other than that,

is, I always say like, think about, like, how you connect

with other people in your life. So we were, well, if we were to

get together this weekend, with a few of the other friends that

we have, like, you know, from from the coaching group, we

would be up, you know, over drinks late night like giggling

over like absurd things that happened or silly things that

are did you hear about this? Or do you remember when this

happened, and they're all none of them are like, remember, when

I walked into a room, and I was perfectly dressed and ever, you

know, I mean, like, we don't connect over those type of

things. And I think one of the funny things about the internet

is people are keep trying to present themselves in that way.

But there's no way to connect with that. So you really want to

be like who you want to attract or be the friend of who you want

to attract. Because then you're gonna have commonalities, you're

gonna have shared experiences, you're gonna have values that

are same and can grow over time, just like a friendship would be

offline. Hmm,

I love that that is so powerful. And I think that

that's so true, right? It's, it's, it's just showing up how

you would in real life, right? Like, it's, it's sort of like

you're building, you're building that, that party or that

experience online that you would build in real life. And I think

that, yeah, so often people forget that, and then they show

up totally different. You're like, wait, just be who you are.

I

don't like one of the things. You see these people

that are really, really spammy or salesy online that are just

like, buy this, buy this, buy this and you you think about, if

you met them in real life, they like I would hope that's not the

conversation you'd have. They don't walk into a cocktail party

and be like, Hey, I have this product. It's this and this and

this. But yeah, that's what they represent online. And I think

it's just because they don't understand. If I if you have met

me, you like know, and trust me, I have something for sale that

fits you. We don't even have to have a sales conversation. Like,

you're like, oh, Holly sells that, um, you know, like, I'll

buy it from her because you like know, and trust me, you know,

that I have it for sale, and you need it. And so I think if we

could just back up a little bit, realize we need to go forward

with being human, you know, creating those relationships,

then of course, you have to let them know that you have those

things for sale. Otherwise, this isn't going to work either. So

there is a part of that. But that doesn't have to be done,

like an advertisement from Target. You know, it can be done

in a way that just like hey, I have this you know, why do I

have this? Well, you know, just like you would sit down I want

to and recommend something to a friend, your friend is not going

to turn around and say, Why did you just try to sell me on that?

There'll be like, Oh my gosh, thank you so much, I have to go

buy that. So, but when you start looking at these as a

relationship basis, instead of transactional, it gets a lot

easier.

Yeah, that's awesome. I love that. Well, and

it's so true, right? I mean, it's, it's, I think, the huge

sort of shift that we're seeing, like your point where people

want that people are not tolerating anymore of this crazy

business, where it's like, did you forget that there's actually

people on the other side of your camera, I actually just did a

podcast, a different podcast episode about that this morning.

So that will be coming out soon. Around, like showing up and, and

selling to your first couple customers? And like being like,

Yeah, well, we're just gonna create it together, it's gonna

be great. Like, just pay me. And then, and then we'll just sit

around and figure out what we're gonna do. It doesn't work like

like that, right? Like, you have to have something that you're

bringing to the table, and bring it around who you are, and what

your expertise is, and how you can actually help people, not

just like, hey, let's get together and you could just give

me some money. And then we'll, we'll, I'll make something up

for you. So, yeah, so it needs

to be it needs to be a value for both people.

Sometimes we forget that.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so that's an awesome tip.

If you are, like, you know, in that position where you're

feeling like, how do I show up online, I don't want to be a

dancing monkey. I don't want to do all these random things. And

feel like I'm just like spamming people. Just show up who you

are. And do that, in your messaging, do that in your

product that you have. And, and just, you know, remember that

you are actually like connecting with a real human on the end of

that. Awesome. So talk to us a little bit about like, the

business of the blog. So you first started out just like,

trying to connect people, right, like, um, and, you know, getting

your, your materials out there. But like, how did it go from

that to becoming a business that now you have? You know, an

actual Well, you said, you support your family. So well,

how did it get from where it started to there?

Oh, you froze for a second. Are you back?

Yeah. Did you hear the question? That we're taking

it to a business? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So um, when

well, I started out, obviously, as a hobby, and I didn't. And

for many, you know, for several years, nobody was making money

on the internet. So when it hadn't even occurred to me

until, until I started getting really spammy emails sent to me

about, hey, I want to be featured on your blog. And then

I realize, at some point, somebody's gonna get paid for

this. And so it might as well be me because like, even though I

replaced it expensive scrapbooking haven't I was

putting a lot of hours and stuff into this hobby. And it had

really become my, you know, kind of social circle when I had

little kids in the house, and you can't get out that much and

stuff like that. So. So I saw the value of it being a

connection for myself in those early days. And so I that's one

of the things I wanted to build as we went along is build

something for others that could experience that it's better as

being a stay at home mom is very lonely. I mean, it's an awesome

job. But like, there's really long hours, where there's just

what I would say a lot of headspace time, just like, if I

thought about what I was doing in this waiting room waiting for

these kids to take two hours of swimming lessons, I would like

pick an icepick, to my eyes, you know, like those type of things,

but, but you're so grateful to be there. So like, it's like

that back and forth kind of thing. So you know, just knowing

that there's other people in the world that are doing it, that

they're supportive. And so that's kind of where I headed

with that once I realize how how valuable it was to in my own

life. And so as you know, things just started happening. And and

I would just say this for any business, like when you're

starting your business or when you're in the middle of your

business for that matter, or even where I am now who knows,

is a lot of times you don't know exactly where it's headed. And

um, you know, like, I know there's people that say you

should have a five year plan and a 10 year plan super doesn't

work for me because I'm always in the position of thinking

whatever I'll be doing in five years hasn't really even been

invented yet. And that's kind of been you know, the cycle I've

seen, you know that what I was doing 20 years ago has no even

close relation to what other than the fact that it on the

internet and it has a website The foundation. So like,

following kind of where, where your heart passion, your the

opportunities lead you sometimes not kind of going into that

blind not even understanding why you're doing that can be super,

super powerful. And then as you see things unfold, you know, you

can start looking for the monetization opportunities. You

know, one of the things that when Facebook Live came out, I

had been doing live video over on Google Plus, which I know

most of you don't even know what that is anymore. Back in the

dark ages of the internet, we used to go live on on Google.

And so when it finally came out on Facebook, I was like, really,

really excited. And you know, I started using it immediately.

But like, I couldn't figure out how to monetize it. And it took

me you know, but that didn't stop me. It's like, oh, I can't

do this. Because I can't monetize it. I was like, no, let

me figure this out. I know, through doing this, I'll figure

out a way to monetize it. And that's how it went, I ended up

selling clothing on the internet on the show. It's on Facebook

Live every night of the week.

But like which, which we watched as a family by

the way, I just like have to put that in. Because one of the

things I love about you Holly is, is just like what you're

talking about is is first of all, no idea step two, right?

Like you just take it and and move forward. And then you're

like, so how do I monetize this in a way that not only serves my

people, but obviously serves you and and makes you money? And so

you did you had that show, which was which was amazingly

hilarious. Like you have done so many things around this

foundation, where it's the same foundation, but just sort of

different things. So my family and I were all sitting around

and and Holly and her co host were they were selling these

clothes. And my entire family sat down because they were like,

What are you watching? And then Holly says, And I'll never

forget this in my entire life. But Holly was talking about a

sweater. I'm totally going on a tangent, but this was so fun. So

Holly is selling a sweater, and she's like, it's like a cocoon

of awesomeness. And like wrapped herself in this in this sweater

and my family's still to this day. Quotes, the awesome that

this quote that Holly had of the cocoon of awesomeness. And so

there you go, you are famous in my household for that.

Which I absolutely love because like these things well,

and this goes back to the authenticity. When you're on a

live video. First of all, you can't plan three hours of live

video, it's just not gonna happen. So you're just gonna

have to be okay with the stupid stuff that comes out of your

mouth sometimes, which was kind of on brand for us is a lot of

people watched because you just don't know what we're.

Yeah, that's awesome. I love it. Yeah, there

you go. So the, the, they're like that, that is an authentic

brand right there for sure. So, so, but but the point is really

great, right? Is that you're just saying like, just go with

what, what is coming up for you. And and feels authentic and and

try and monetize it and move forward? Yeah.

And also, I think to a certain extent, you really

want to give yourself permission to explore those lows, new

things are those things that interest you, even if it doesn't

make sense to your business right there. And, and I would

say that has always kept me more on the edge of what's happening

versus waiting for someone else to come and tell me what to do

or waiting for what an expert might say. In general, a lot of

the experts are going to be years and years behind what is

actually happening on the internet, because it's such low

you know, like you can just don't try things for like not

much money or no money or you know, just some time investment

learning things and stuff like that. So, so like you don't be

stuck in the mold of what you imagine this looks like or what

other people imagine this look like you're going to be led in

ways that is going to make your business super unique. And by

the way, you'll be able to leverage it because it's going

to be closer to your heart and the passions that you really

have inside.

Awesome. Okay, so let's transition today and and

what you're doing today and how like how did that transition

happen? You know, true to true to your spirit, you probably saw

an opportunity and took advantage of it. So tell us a

little bit about how that happened. And and then what

you're what you're working on.

Yeah, so like one of Other things that occurred to me

as I was building this website, is because at one point because

activities blog was getting up to 10 million page views a

month, and which is amazing, but nothing stays the same on the

internet. And so like most of those, a lot of those people are

coming from Facebook or from Pinterest or Google. And I was

like, I need to be able to control that traffic more. And

so one of the things that I was like, I need to build a list, I

need to build an email list. Because if someone comes to the

blog, I need to be able to reach back out to talk to talk to

them, this can't just be a one and done. Like I want to, you

know, I create content that you know, is ongoing, like, if you

liked this, I have 450 Other things that you might like to or

if you have this problem, I might be able to solve these

other problems that you probably have, too. So like, I was like,

okay, email lists, so started with one opt in on the site,

because that's what well actually started with zero. And

sorry, put one in and then over time, you know, I just added

like, for a while I was adding one a week, and then I you know,

as I was able to scale that figured it out, and this is the

other thing is what you're doing and what you're learning to do

today, you're gonna be able to do so much faster. And you'll

know way better about it, you know, after you've done it a

while, so I love learning in the trenches. So yeah, those first

opt ins were painful, I now have about 2500 opt ins on the site,

which means that I get a lot of my traffic into my email list.

You know, if you need a coloring page, a workbook, you know, a,

you know, a printable of any kind for kids, I likely have it

at this point. And so I have I'm getting you know, 500 600 new

subscribers to my email list every single day. And then I'm

going at back and sending them an email every single day and

using my email for traffic to my site. And then also the second

layer of that was, okay, let's go ahead and start making

products that fit in with this with the scenarios that we see

like problem solving and and you know, it, you know, extended

printable series and stuff like that, that could keep get kids

busy, or, you know, give parents hacks and tricks to fix things.

And so, um, I run a site called One Crazy House with Rachel

Miller, we have all sorts of like, it's kind of hacks and

tricks. And so we're like, hey, you know, we're kind of applying

the same technique, Tibet, and we were building like a camping

guide, that would be like, $7, you know, for the camping

category, you know, a cleaning guide for the cleaning

categories. And so we had these things made. And then um, then

like I was, I'm like, I'm not very good at funnels. It's just

not my strength. A lot of people tried to teach me but it's just

like, I'm not techie. So like I was I was trust starting to put

these things together. But it was ridiculous Rachel put had,

she's really good at it. So she put some stuff together. And

then we were cloning them. Because we had about 12 of these

different products that we were putting into the clubs. And

we're talking three or four months later, we have like,

maybe one or two of those things launched, you know, things were

breaking and behind the scenes. And by the way, like the

software that we put this stuff together with like $250 a month,

and we're selling things for $7. And so I was just like, why is

this so hard? Like why, like, stupid hard. Like if I like I

have all the I've been on the internet for 17 years at this

point, like, this is hard for me that I can't be the only one

that said this is stupid hard. And so Rachel being Rachel,

she's like, I'm like, Let me think about this. And she came

back and she goes, Okay, I think I can solve this for you. And by

the way, why don't we just make a software so we can solve it

for everyone? And I was just like, Okay, well, that was two

and a half years ago. And so basically, we did and so we you

know, we created these templates that you could go make whatever,

you know, the workbook with checklists, the e book, whatever

you want the calendar within, it's called Pagewheel. And then,

while we were coding it, AI came into the picture. And we started

using AI behind the scenes to help us create the products. And

then we were like, Oh my gosh, we could use AI to a, like

Pagewheel knows what you just made. So it can automatically

make the sales page or the delivery page, deliver it via

email and online to that customer that you might have had

or the opt in that you just had. And then we have all like just

hundreds of E of social media, AI generated templates that will

create a whole social media calendar and all the social

media do you need to promote it? And oh, by the way, it's like

you can do that in 20 minutes and actually launch something

instead of like three months later, you're still pulling your

hair out with like nothing to show for it. And very

inexpensive too. So we've just like, like, now I use I use it

every day because it solves a problem I have. And now like you

don't have there's not the pressure of OH, you know, I

think we've all had this situation where we've watched,

we spent months and months on a funnel or, or saw an idea that

we finally launched. And I think I remember one that I like sold

to. It's like, I won't even tell you what I spent on it. Um, you

sell to and you're like, Oh, my God, like, it just feels like

the biggest failure. But like, what if you spent 20 minutes on

it? And you sold to? You'd be like, Oh my God, look at that.

It's amazing, you know, so like, it really gives you the ability

to test things and launch things in a lot different way than we

then we had in the past.

Okay, Pagewheel, is it pagewheel.com? Okay, so I

will put that in the show notes so go check that out. But I love

that for so many different reasons. From the perspective of

you solving a problem in the market, you took action to solve

the problem, because you have the problem yourself, and then

you were able to give it to other people. So they could also

solve the problem. So first and foremost, I love that great job.

That's exactly like when you think about bringing something

to market, the most successful approaches are when you're

actually solving a problem that you have, or somebody that you

know how your clients or your customers or whatever. And you

know that it's something that is a gap. Like, that's amazing.

That the second thing is is like the the other part of this I

love is that you're using AI. And you alluded to this earlier,

and I want to talk about this, because I think the AI

conversation is really important. And it's not like

you're not using AI to do everything, without you being

involved with it, right. So what it's doing is it's taking what

you've created, and then applying it to other things that

then you can edit and change. But talk a little bit about your

philosophy around the AI because because it's not like, it's not

going to take over the world because it still needs humans to

put the right input in and to your point earlier with being

authentically you. It's never going to capture your voice in

exactly the same way that you are, are showing up live. So

talk a little bit about that. Because I think that that's a

great sort of, you know, T into to your product, but also to

what's going on on the internet right now. Right? Like, how is

AI actually affecting everything?

It's kind of helpless on the internet. And so

one of the things that because, you know, obviously early

adopter to everything. So of course, the minute chat GBT was

launched, I'm in the middle of it. And I found myself like

arguing. I'm very combative with with AI for some reason. I don't

know, I'm really nice in person to people. But I don't know,

missionaries be crazy. But the what I what I really realized at

even early on is it's really helpful to, for me, as a writer,

and as a blogger, and even developing different types of

things. Is it it's, it's such a nice step one so that you're not

staring at a blank page. Because as soon as you have stuff on

that page, your human brain goes into overdrive and like, like,

oh, that no, no, yes, yes. Or, Oh, I didn't even think about

adding that. And that's the genius of ai ai, it's going to

be kind of vaguely comprehensive. And so we can use

that to our advantage, you know, in in, you know, in blogging and

creation of all this stuff. And so what is really, and but the

other thing that I found super annoying about AI, especially in

the beginning is, is I have this argument with it for 30 minutes,

and then I don't have anything to show for it. Unless I like

copy and paste or take it somewhere else and all this kind

of stuff. And it's like, I'm a human, I'm the one that the

limited time. Like, why am I doing all the work like, you

know, so what I love about what we've done it page wheel is that

we use AI in a way that you end up with something tangible

immediately. So you're not you're not like I you got this

and so, so a lot of our templates, you know, when you

put in your topic, they'll fill in with AI to like if you're you

know, so you might use that same template if you're creating you

know a on how to do a preschool craft, or how to, you know, put

together a rocket, you know, like that those same step

templates might be in play for both a very complex and very

simple thing. But the AI can help you bridge that gap between

those look like very different things in the end. And so, um,

but you as the human are gonna go in, and you're gonna be like,

Oh, my gosh, they got that right, or, you know, it's really

good at really concise steps. But then on the oh, here's why I

wrote it, you're gonna go in and probably add a little bit of

different things. But the other thing that I love about what

Paige will do does is that it shorts, circuits, you know, the

user, so you don't have to be an AI expert expert. Because if if

I'm gonna go make a full blown blog post that that you know,

has the elements I want, and the voice I want, I might end up

with six paragraphs of prompts that I'm putting in to an AI.

Well, in our templates, those prompts are behind the scenes.

So we know that the About Me page that you're writing on

isn't about the page. So you might say, Hi, I'm Holly, I'm

the mom of three boys who you know, who you know, uses play as

a survival mechanism in my home. And then it will write it from

the within behind the same prompts of it being an About Me

page and why that's important to what we're what we're making. So

you can see how like, now I may go in and just change two or

three sentences in that about me page, because there's all these

prompts behind the scenes that you don't have to worry about.

So you don't have to carry six paragraphs of prompts into a

place, you're going to choose a page is going to have prompts

behind the scenes that you don't even know about that you're just

going to put what you want to put in there. And then you know,

oh, well, that was off, I'll change the prompt a little bit,

run it again, or I'll just edit it a little bit to make it sound

like me.

Yeah, that's cool. That's so great. And that's the

power, right? It's, it's like it you're using, you're using it to

your advantage and then you feel are taking control over it. I

think it's. So first of all, if anyone needs to do workbooks,

and keychains, and checklists, and all of that stuff, this tool

is perfect for that, and will definitely shortcut your

process. So I love that. And so for all of you, which is

everyone

anyone that needs to build a list or sell something

at this, so go check it out. I know I'm gonna go

online, which is pretty much everyone

check it out after this call. But I think so. So one of the

things I just wanted to touch on, around this concept is, in

I've heard this from so many people is that using AI feels

like you're cheating because it's too easy, right? And so you

want to make something more difficult, until you think you

do it from scratch. And so, talk to us a little bit about that

philosophy that people may have of like, you have to do it from

scratch. It's like, can't be too easy to get all of this done.

Yeah, and you cut out just a little bit. So if I get

off topic, interrupt me. But so one of the things I think

happens on the internet, and I'm just gonna say it out loud, is

we way overthink and overcomplicate everything, I

have learned that launching something or pushing something

into the public, you know, that's crappy, is way, way, way

better than than holding it back and not launching it yet. So and

the reason for that is is is like we said, like with the

funnel, those first few times you do something, you're not

very good at it, you're and you're not going to hit the

target. The so you might as well launch, to learn just launch to

learn test, I use the internet as you know, kind of a big

science experiment. So we have to take action in order to to

grow that and if you learn anything from me this is this is

the secret sauce. It's not that I'm smarter or brighter, or you

know, or anything, it's that I just take action every single

day. And so and if some of it's super bad, but it's kind of part

of my brand. So you know, hey there, you know your brand, the

hot mess, it works really well online, but no, like, just keep

pushing out. And by the way, I also want to say if you put

something out that people don't like the algorithms are gonna

kind of be your savior at that point. It's not going to get out

very far. So you can come back, refresh it and send it back out.

So what we built into page wheel is kind of that like, hey, yeah,

like yes, you might make this a little bit different. If you had

25 hours and unlimited budget. I get that like your workbook

might look different but that, if you use this, we can get it

to your audience, you can serve your audience in the next 20

minutes. And guess what? That person on the other end whose

problem you just solved, doesn't care if your logo was on the

second page in the right color, or like, it doesn't matter.

Because when you know, when you're solving problems, and

when you're helping people, they, it's more about that than

anything else. And so it kind of helps you take the vanity out of

it a little bit. Because really, in the end, it's not about your

branding. I mean, it's good that you have branding, so they might

be able to recognize you next time. But but it's about that

feeling, or that that's problem solving relationship that you

have with that customer that will bring them back over and

over again. Yeah,

so so much gold right there, rewind that, and

listen, because it, like loves to learn is so powerful, right?

Like, that's why we say fail, is the first attempt at learning.

Right? Like, you don't just put something out there, once it's

perfect, and hope that it's gonna do something. No, you just

you, you put things out there to test them and solve real

problems. And then, and then figure it out. So that's

awesome. Thanks for sharing that how they because I think that

that's really important. Yeah,

we just, I want to emphasize that failure thing a

little bit. I mean, I have a good ego on me. Not a super fan

of failure. But dot dot dot. I would say that without question.

The times when I've had the biggest failure, you know, when

I go down in flames, is when I like, actually stop and analyze

and figure out why. You know, if you're on this lucky streak of

like winning, winning, winning, you are very likely not doing

any analytics or trying to figure out why it's happening.

You're just like, of course, it's because it's me. And then

when you hit rock bottom is when you're like, Oh crap, like what

happened? And those times of like that failure of when things

didn't, or like, I'm sure this was going to work, and it didn't

like, why is when you actually learn the most. And you're going

to you had to go through that to make that next success possible.

So yeah, it's super sucks. But on the other hand, it's kind of

like one of your biggest assets.

Yeah, that's awesome. All right. Cool. So one

of the things I always ask our guest podcasters is what is

like, like the top tip trick? Or, or just like success factor

that you can give people who are on this journey? Yeah,

so I will take it back to one of my very favorite

movies. What About Bob, if you're, if you're younger than

us, then you may or may need to go look that up on Netflix or

Hulu. But Bob has a lot of obstacles. And one of the ways

he gets over these obstacles is he says over and over in his

head baby steps to the elevator, he's afraid of going on

elevators or baby steps to the sailboat he doesn't want to go

sailing. You know, so like, and I would say like, without fail,

like maybe 20 or 30 times a day, like that is going through my

head is Baby steps, baby steps because everything that we do in

life is hard in some way. But we just need like, there's no

momentum, unless you're taking a baby step and the main be only

one on any given day, it may be 22 on another day, but just

keeping some amount of progress, even if it's in the opposite

direction of where you need to be going, is going to give you

the momentum to correct that path really quickly.

I love that. All right, everybody go check out

that movie if you haven't watched it.

it's insane

because like I was like, what about that movie? I

just then you explained it. Perfect. Okay, and then how

about a book or resource that you cannot live without? In your

business? Yeah,

I'm gonna go the book route on this one. And it's

one that I read actually, back when I met you a few years ago

and it's called a happy pocket full of money. And I'm like, so

this world that we were in was very aspirational as far as

like, you know, humans if you think it, you know, kind of

thinking grow rich and you know, law of attraction, all this kind

of stuff. And as like a scientist and as a very black

and white thinker. This was all very foreign to me. And I might

have been a little skeptical, okay, I'm a huge skeptic on just

about anything. And it was hard for me to understand the

thinking like I'm like, Well, yeah, you can and think about

it. But if you're not taking, like, you know, like. So I've

thought the half you happy pocket full of money was a

beautiful kind of transition between those two worlds and

like kind of changing the way you think about money explaining

the law of attraction in a way that even if you're a skeptic,

it totally makes sense. And so I just think it's a really good

mindset, especially if you're in my camp. And you're all like,

yeah, I feel like all these gurus are a little kind of out

there. This is going to help you give that understanding to

realize that everybody has a voice in a way that is valuable,

even though you may not have understood it.

Yeah, awesome. All right, cool. Everyone, go check

out that book. I will put it in the show notes so that you have

it. Alright, so Holly, any parting words that you have for

our listeners today as we go off into the next part of our day?

Yes. So I would say one of the things that I want

you to start on today, if I could just give you a little

assignment, is it start growing your email list? The algorithms

are not reliable. Search engines are not reliable on delivering

those people over and over, you know, sending people over over

to you even if they follow you, even if they're searching for

you. So if you can get them on your email list and then talk to

them like a human. It's going to be a beautiful way for you to

grow your community over time. All

right, you heard it from Holly. All right, Holly,

thank you so much for being on the show today. We appreciate

you. And for everyone who's looking for page, we'll go to

page google.com And you will find out more about her awesome

tool that she has. All right. Thanks, everybody. Thank you