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President and CEO of Empowering Differences, Ashley T. Brundage, is back for another episode of Communicate Like You Give A Damn with Kim Clark! In continuing their conversation surrounding “Empowering Differences,” Ashley and Kim dive deep into the intricate world of DEI messaging in the realm of branding, marketing and corporate communications. Together they uncover the alignment within organizations in order to strengthen the impact of DEI messaging while learning how to navigate political differences in the workplace constructively. Their conversation also explores how to shift corporate messaging from performative to meaningful as it relates to organizational gestures, developing inclusive environments and even in the context of events such as Pride.
About The Guest:
Ashley T Brundage is the President & CEO of Empowering Differences. While seeking employment at a major financial institution, she self-identified during the interview process as a woman of transgender experience and subsequently was hired. Starting as a part time teller she rose to VP, Diversity and Inclusion in less than 5 years. She captured this 4-step process of empowerment to cultivate change in her new book and online course. Ashley credits her success to those closest to her for providing actionable allyship including her 2 teenage sons, Bryce and Blake.
Since beginning transitioning in 2008, she has worked tirelessly to promote awareness and acceptance of gender identity and expression. She works to accomplish this goal by volunteering in the community and holding education sessions for corporations.
Ms. Brundage speaks locally and nationally about her transition, empowerment, workplace equality, leadership, and diversity, equity & inclusion. She has also been interviewed in several publications and media outlets, including Tampa Bay Times, The Business Journal, The Miami Herald, Fox, ABC, CBS, Las Vegas Review Journal, Milwaukee Biz Times, the Daily Beast, Fairygodboss, InStyle Magazine, BBC World Service Radio, Bloomberg Businessweek, Business Insider, and Forbes while being named their compassionate leader award. She approaches her advocacy and empowerment work very apolitically, and this is evident as in 2022 she served on a committee for the Biden White House and won an award from Florida Governor Ron DeSantis as a community spirit award for her commitment to women and girls in Florida.
Find Ashley Here:
About Kim:
Kim Clark (she/her) focuses her work on the communicator and content creator's role in diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). She is the co-author of The Conscious Communicator: The fine art of not saying stupid sh*t, an Amazon #1 bestseller and the leading voice for DEI communications and social justice messaging for brands.
She speaks at conferences, writes custom workshops, writes inclusive communications guides, and consults with companies on all things related to diversity, equity, and inclusion communications. Kim is a member of the LGBTQ+ community, a cisgender woman, Native American (Muscogee Nation) and a mom of two kids with disabilities. These marginalized identities and the privileges that come with society seeing her as White motivate her daily for social change.
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We are here with Ashley. Ashley. This is actually
Kim Clark:part two to our conversation. So I really encourage people. If
Kim Clark:you haven't listened to part one, please do listen to part
Kim Clark:one, because she kind of left us with a cliffhanger there. And
Kim Clark:then it's made me say, I want more. And so here we are, I'm
Kim Clark:picking it up again, Ashley, just refresh everyone's memory,
Kim Clark:like, give us a little bit of an introduction to you. And we'll
Kim Clark:we're gonna pick up where we left off.
Ashley T. Brundage:Yeah, I mean, I'm the empowerment lady.
Ashley T. Brundage:And I researched empowerment for eight years, I asked 1000s of
Ashley T. Brundage:people would empowerment meant to them. And I overcame
Ashley T. Brundage:harassment, discrimination and homelessness, because I decided
Ashley T. Brundage:to empower all 10 of my top 10 differences that I have as a
Ashley T. Brundage:human, including my gender, including my educational
Ashley T. Brundage:background, having dropped out of high school, including my
Ashley T. Brundage:social economic class have been hopeless. And choosing to
Ashley T. Brundage:empower all of my differences is what led me to get hired as a
Ashley T. Brundage:part time associate and then become the National Vice
Ashley T. Brundage:President of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion and less than four
Ashley T. Brundage:years for the fifth largest bank in the United States. PNC Bank.
Ashley T. Brundage:Ah,
Kim Clark:Impressive, impressive. Now, you dropped in
Kim Clark:there this kind of time in your life where you said that you
Kim Clark:were homeless? Can you share with us a little bit about what
Kim Clark:that situation was? And what that experience was like?
Ashley T. Brundage:Yeah, um, it was kind of interesting in the
Ashley T. Brundage:fact that most of the time when people are homeless, you're
Ashley T. Brundage:navigating you, I guess, is the thing that most people think
Ashley T. Brundage:about. But really, it was four mouths to feed, and, and then
Ashley T. Brundage:also shielding that from my kids were like, I was talking to my
Ashley T. Brundage:youngest, because he came in to watch me present at American
Ashley T. Brundage:Airlines last year. And he said, I didn't even know we won't be
Ashley T. Brundage:home. It's like, well, that I did my job. I shielded it from
Ashley T. Brundage:you. And yeah, I mean, we would go to the dentist can store and
Ashley T. Brundage:the soup kitchen and events where we knew that we're going
Ashley T. Brundage:to be food in the church events that we're giving out food and,
Ashley T. Brundage:and trying to defray costs. And then we were really fortunate in
Ashley T. Brundage:the fact that we were living in a house, a whole entire
Ashley T. Brundage:community that was decimated from people losing their house.
Ashley T. Brundage:So we were squatting illegally as long as we could. And when we
Ashley T. Brundage:knew that somebody was coming, when we went out that night, or
Ashley T. Brundage:we went somewhere else. And then we came back. So yeah, I mean,
Ashley T. Brundage:we were really purposeful to try to, like high a high in that for
Ashley T. Brundage:my kids, to where they weren't necessarily exposed to that.
Kim Clark:And what did that do for you, as far as moving
Kim Clark:towards becoming VP of PNC? I think
Ashley T. Brundage:it taught me to be super. Yeah, it taught me
Ashley T. Brundage:to be super resourceful, especially in the DIY space,
Ashley T. Brundage:where most like 80%, the DI people that are out there are
Ashley T. Brundage:doing VI is one person. And we can't be all things to all
Ashley T. Brundage:people. And then a lot of the other percentage of people have
Ashley T. Brundage:either little budget or very little budget. So I can tell you
Ashley T. Brundage:that it taught me to be resourceful as heck, and trying
Ashley T. Brundage:to find the ability to pay for things and, and be able to make
Ashley T. Brundage:things work financially. Because at the end of the day, you had
Ashley T. Brundage:your only get out of what you can get out of something.
Kim Clark:And also, it helps give people a picture of like,
Kim Clark:you know, some of us are just a paycheck away. You know, we're
Kim Clark:so on the fringe of it all. And that's something that diversity,
Kim Clark:equity inclusion within the workplace is trying to solve for
Kim Clark:it's one of the many things that it's trying to solve for is to
Kim Clark:get people in stronger financial position, so they don't have to
Kim Clark:go through that experience.
Ashley T. Brundage:Yeah, I mean, I think it's the
Ashley T. Brundage:difference in and how people receive equity, and how they
Ashley T. Brundage:measure it themselves. You know, a lot of my program, right and
Ashley T. Brundage:so on. And I missed this in the introduction, but I run my own
Ashley T. Brundage:leadership company. And we measure how empowered people are
Ashley T. Brundage:one of the questions we asked is how empowered you are for your
Ashley T. Brundage:social economic class. And are you empowered or disempowered?
Ashley T. Brundage:Where do you fit on a zero to 100 scale of your social
Ashley T. Brundage:economic class and power? Am I asking people that ultimately
Ashley T. Brundage:what we're doing As we're getting at the end of the day,
Ashley T. Brundage:how they feel about their pay equity.
Kim Clark:And you have the experience of feeling
Kim Clark:disempowered at one point, and then now in an empowerment place
Kim Clark:where you're running your own company, it's really an
Kim Clark:incredible arc in the Apple Store. Thank you. So where we
Kim Clark:left off with, which was the cliffhanger that you left me
Kim Clark:hanging with is that you had mentioned that coke doesn't sell
Kim Clark:the same taste around the world that there's a nuance, and I
Kim Clark:need to be learning about this from a dei messaging standpoint.
Kim Clark:So tell me more about that. What that looks like for you in
Kim Clark:practice.
Ashley T. Brundage:So coke doesn't all so Coca Cola, right?
Ashley T. Brundage:Like, literally doesn't sell coke the same way, anywhere in
Ashley T. Brundage:the world may not only mark it differently, and communicated
Ashley T. Brundage:differently, but even taste differently depending upon where
Ashley T. Brundage:you go in the world. I know that I spend a lot of time in Asia
Ashley T. Brundage:and coke tastes differently. In Asia, it's marketed different.
Ashley T. Brundage:The bottles cans different and then if you right I know a lot
Ashley T. Brundage:of people, probably us driven focus for di you know, and that
Ashley T. Brundage:terminology, a lot of people like I think you could buy
Ashley T. Brundage:Mexican Coke, right? Like literally comes in a glass
Ashley T. Brundage:bottle. It tastes completely different than the coke that you
Ashley T. Brundage:would buy in the United States in grocery store. The Coke you
Ashley T. Brundage:get at McDonald's taste differently than the coke you
Ashley T. Brundage:get at Burger King. That's because the way that McDonald's
Ashley T. Brundage:invests in refrigeration units for the lines of the of the
Ashley T. Brundage:syrup that goes into the Coke, so,
Kim Clark:okay, detention like that. That's amazing. Okay.
Ashley T. Brundage:I went to McDonald's University. So I
Ashley T. Brundage:know. It's very different. So you, you have this right. So why
Ashley T. Brundage:is it that a brand like Coca Cola is so globally recognized,
Ashley T. Brundage:right? And people across the world understand and know and
Ashley T. Brundage:relate that product? Why is it that they can get this concept
Ashley T. Brundage:of globalization and marketing and product development, and yet
Ashley T. Brundage:here and in relation to diversity, equity inclusion, we
Ashley T. Brundage:don't get it. That's the thing that's so frustrating to me,
Ashley T. Brundage:because we think that we can just say, diversity, equity and
Ashley T. Brundage:inclusion and reach everybody, we are sorely mistaken. Thinking
Ashley T. Brundage:about it from a Coca Cola lens, in marketing, and even making it
Ashley T. Brundage:taste differently, right. Now, maybe the taste part might be
Ashley T. Brundage:different, right? That would be for us that learned behavior or
Ashley T. Brundage:the knowledge that skate that's what you gained from that, that
Ashley T. Brundage:delivery of the products, right? The product is diversity, equity
Ashley T. Brundage:and inclusion, how are you going to market that to make it
Ashley T. Brundage:palatable for everybody, when we are all so different? This is
Ashley T. Brundage:literally why my company is called empowering differences.
Ashley T. Brundage:Because empowerment is important to every single person on the
Ashley T. Brundage:planet. And it's a tell you know, then they just don't
Ashley T. Brundage:really understand what empowerment is. And then
Ashley T. Brundage:everybody on the planet has the differences that that we
Ashley T. Brundage:measure. So there's no two people are inherently alike
Ashley T. Brundage:either. So from a standpoint of marketing, diversity, equity
Ashley T. Brundage:inclusion, you have the opportunity to think about this
Ashley T. Brundage:differently. And so that means you need to look at it or the
Ashley T. Brundage:way in which your branding and marketing communicating it and
Ashley T. Brundage:thinking completely different.
Kim Clark:Great point, it really is a great point and to
Kim Clark:be thinking of it as as with the level of investment because
Kim Clark:we're that the research is done. The measurement is there, the
Kim Clark:ROI is calculated and forecasted. D is no different.
Kim Clark:We just have to do it.
Ashley T. Brundage:So I have a really great story on this topic
Ashley T. Brundage:of all right. So I'm sure that some of your listeners have
Ashley T. Brundage:heard of this before. But have you ever had it to where you
Ashley T. Brundage:stripped away information from hiring someone? The identifying
Ashley T. Brundage:information, right? You don't put their name. So if it says
Ashley T. Brundage:whatever their name is, right, if it's a name that someone
Ashley T. Brundage:can't pronounce in America, there's a good chance that that
Ashley T. Brundage:person could face some unconscious bias Right? Right.
Ashley T. Brundage:We agree on that. Okay, so if you remove the name, and then
Ashley T. Brundage:you remove where they went to school, right, because sometimes
Ashley T. Brundage:that could also identify who this person is, right? If they
Ashley T. Brundage:went to a historically black college and university or you
Ashley T. Brundage:name it, any other identifying type of school that would
Ashley T. Brundage:identify what community they're from. So we strip away the
Ashley T. Brundage:school name, we strip away the name, and, and then, you know,
Ashley T. Brundage:we we have then then their resume is revealed. Right? This
Ashley T. Brundage:is a practice that people have been trying to work on
Ashley T. Brundage:developing more. Well, what about doing that for diversity,
Ashley T. Brundage:equity inclusion programming. I know personally, for me, I
Ashley T. Brundage:removed i got i We do an event, right? We do an event for
Ashley T. Brundage:history and heritage month. This is this is what ends up
Ashley T. Brundage:happening, right? They, a company says, Hey, let's do
Ashley T. Brundage:Pride Month. And let's bring in a speaker for Pride Month. You
Ashley T. Brundage:know, we're gonna celebrate Pride. With Ashley T Brundage,
Ashley T. Brundage:we're gonna celebrate Pride and empower. And don't get me wrong.
Ashley T. Brundage:I'm really glad that we're doing that because it helps fund my
Ashley T. Brundage:business venture to grow my company and, and feel the
Ashley T. Brundage:empowerment assessment tool that I've been building version to.
Kim Clark:More people. Yes, exactly.
Ashley T. Brundage:Right. But at the end of the day, I mean,
Ashley T. Brundage:pride is every day of LGBTQ people are operating every day.
Ashley T. Brundage:And and we we know all that. So you know, we have this thing
Ashley T. Brundage:where we build a communication flyer Ashley's coming to x x x o
Ashley T. Brundage:company, and and there I am, I'm showing them. And so here's the
Ashley T. Brundage:flyer, you know, it's power, your pride, its pride month,
Ashley T. Brundage:we're going to put a rainbow on the flyer, my photo is going to
Ashley T. Brundage:be there, it's going to talk about, you know, maybe some of
Ashley T. Brundage:my credentials. And, and, and then there's going to be the
Ashley T. Brundage:Employee Resource Group logo, right, this communication
Ashley T. Brundage:platform is going to have all of this information right? date,
Ashley T. Brundage:the time, the WHO THE where the when the why all of that is
Ashley T. Brundage:going to be on the flyer. But at the end of the day, right, how
Ashley T. Brundage:is someone who is not plugged into the LGBT network going to
Ashley T. Brundage:want to come to this? Are we communicating this message to
Ashley T. Brundage:all people in the organization? Is it landing forever?
Kim Clark:Or it's making it super easy to opt out?
Ashley T. Brundage:Right, right. I mean, literally laying
Ashley T. Brundage:the foundation for an opt out, right? Because I want to be
Ashley T. Brundage:there that I'm not going to I don't want to listen to the to
Ashley T. Brundage:try to engender a person, random transgender person you're
Ashley T. Brundage:bringing in to talk to talk to the organization. This is why
Kim Clark:I always for me, it's for them, you know, kind of
Kim Clark:thing. Yeah.
Ashley T. Brundage:This is why I always try to tell
Ashley T. Brundage:organizations at the end of the day, you have an opportunity to
Ashley T. Brundage:bring in someone like me, not in that context, think about the
Ashley T. Brundage:communication of what you could do, you actually could create a
Ashley T. Brundage:flyer that would say, our monthly lessons in leadership or
Ashley T. Brundage:our monthly leadership dialogue session, because leadership is
Ashley T. Brundage:the word that transcends all differences in organizations.
Ashley T. Brundage:This is why I rebranded my company, for me being the DNI,
Ashley T. Brundage:speaker. To me being the leadership and empowerment
Ashley T. Brundage:expert, I wanted to be in that space, because I felt that
Ashley T. Brundage:that's where I can can do more systemic impact. And people who
Ashley T. Brundage:show up to talk, you know, people who are going to show up
Ashley T. Brundage:to attend a pride event where I'm speaking at, think about who
Ashley T. Brundage:that audience is going to be. It's going to be the
Ashley T. Brundage:marginalized community. So the pride group is going to be
Ashley T. Brundage:there, right? The allies of the of the private group are going
Ashley T. Brundage:to be there the executive to say hello and goodbye. And then
Ashley T. Brundage:that's about going to be 97 98% of the people that are there.
Ashley T. Brundage:You're going to get a maybe a two or 3% clip of people who are
Ashley T. Brundage:there for like five different reasons. And most of the time,
Ashley T. Brundage:the reasons that they're there are pretty disingenuous. They're
Ashley T. Brundage:there because somebody told them they mandatorily had to be
Ashley T. Brundage:there. Somebody brought them as a guest. They're there
Ashley T. Brundage:specifically for the food or the trinket that they're gonna get.
Ashley T. Brundage:They're there because they came by accident. And then my
Ashley T. Brundage:favorite there they are because they want to meet the executive
Ashley T. Brundage:and show the executive that their name was on the Zoom
Ashley T. Brundage:meeting. And they're getting FaceTime and they're going Isn't
Ashley T. Brundage:that credit to say they're checking the box to say that
Ashley T. Brundage:they were there, that's not gonna be an event that really
Ashley T. Brundage:does deep systemic change. This is why it's so important to
Ashley T. Brundage:communicate your event and a framework that's going to reach
Ashley T. Brundage:everybody. And sometimes that means that you might have to
Ashley T. Brundage:make two flyers for this event, and market it differently, just
Ashley T. Brundage:the same way that coat markets this differently. So instead of
Ashley T. Brundage:the flyer that has my picture, maybe you make another flyer
Ashley T. Brundage:that says, join us for our leadership, monthly leadership
Ashley T. Brundage:discussion, where and you put the president chairman and
Ashley T. Brundage:executive officers picture on the flyer, because most of the
Ashley T. Brundage:time, that's going to be a white straight male guy. have his
Ashley T. Brundage:picture beyond the flyer and have it be join the because
Ashley T. Brundage:that's the person that's going to give the opening remarks if
Ashley T. Brundage:you're not misrepresenting the event. And have that be the
Ashley T. Brundage:person on the fly? Yeah, and then you can add other stuff and
Ashley T. Brundage:strip away the identifying information about who I am, and
Ashley T. Brundage:the ERG logos, strip all that stuff away. Make two flyers. All
Ashley T. Brundage:right.
Kim Clark:It's really, you know, and I've had several
Kim Clark:calls, as of late for all the pride talks that I'm I'm doing
Kim Clark:in June as well. And it's, you know, one client was like, we
Kim Clark:just started a month and a half ago with our pride group. You
Kim Clark:know, what you because I was asking them, What are your
Kim Clark:communication objectives for this, you know, session, etc.
Kim Clark:And one of the things I said was, they said, what, what do
Kim Clark:you what do you think we should be doing and nice when you as a
Kim Clark:startup kind of employee resource group? And I said,
Kim Clark:Well, it starts with what problem while you're solving,
Kim Clark:why did you start the group, if it's to bring the community
Kim Clark:together, because there's nowhere else to go, and they
Kim Clark:need a safe haven, you need a support group, because it's
Kim Clark:frickin scary out there, if you're LGBTQ plus right now, and
Kim Clark:we're gonna get to talking about Florida, because that's where
Kim Clark:you're based. And, you know, so it's like, okay, that has its
Kim Clark:own purpose. And there's a way that I would approach that
Kim Clark:session, do we want actually to make the workplace more safe? If
Kim Clark:so, then I'm going to be talking to the allies. And I'm going to
Kim Clark:be talking about what our experience is like. And if you
Kim Clark:want me to help recruit, because you're a brand new employee
Kim Clark:resource group, I can do that as well recruit, as far as inviting
Kim Clark:people to participate in the employee resource group to learn
Kim Clark:more, get involved, get engaged, you know, to the issues that are
Kim Clark:facing this, this population. So they're different to your point,
Kim Clark:those those are different purposes and different problems
Kim Clark:that we're solving for that require targeted messaging with
Kim Clark:with unique calls to action. Now, you had mentioned in our
Kim Clark:last conversation that when you were at PNC, you had a DI
Kim Clark:communications person that was basically part of your team are
Kim Clark:assigned to you as this VP, your role as VP of diversity, equity
Kim Clark:and inclusion. So I would assume that these are the kinds of
Kim Clark:conversations with with the marketing of the events, etc,
Kim Clark:that you had these kinds of conversations with his
Kim Clark:diversity, equity inclusion communications person. So can
Kim Clark:you talk a little bit more about what that partnership that
Kim Clark:relationship was like? And what you really needed from that
Kim Clark:person in order to further your efforts and tell the story
Kim Clark:around the EI at PNC?
Ashley T. Brundage:Yeah. So the our comms person on the team is
Ashley T. Brundage:the one that would produce the annual report, or at least our
Ashley T. Brundage:portion towards the annual report at the time, they would
Ashley T. Brundage:manage the website, because we had an internal website. And
Ashley T. Brundage:then we also have an external website. The bulk of what they
Ashley T. Brundage:would do, though, a lot of times was managing our relationship
Ashley T. Brundage:with corporate communications. Okay, because Corporate
Ashley T. Brundage:Communications had someone just had someone designated for HR.
Ashley T. Brundage:And their HR person, in essence is the one that was managing all
Ashley T. Brundage:of HR comms, well, when 2020 happened, let's just say that
Ashley T. Brundage:our our comms became comms for the entire company. And, and
Ashley T. Brundage:obviously, that coincided both with COVID, but also the murder
Ashley T. Brundage:of George Floyd, being Centerpoint amongst things that
Ashley T. Brundage:were discussed on the internet for the company. So what this
Ashley T. Brundage:role really was designed to kind of manage the website comms
Ashley T. Brundage:communications, printing, materials, that kind of stuff.
Ashley T. Brundage:Then it became more about being In the middle point between the
Ashley T. Brundage:corporate communications person and the team, but what I saw was
Ashley T. Brundage:that I needed to have more of a direct connection with the
Ashley T. Brundage:corporate communications person, because it, there was a, you
Ashley T. Brundage:know, the more people you have in between. And then on
Ashley T. Brundage:communication, when you're trying to literally paint the
Ashley T. Brundage:communication for someone, that becomes a little bit harder. And
Ashley T. Brundage:so I found it to be a little bit of mail in some ways that made
Ashley T. Brundage:the job harder. Having that dedicated person that was the
Ashley T. Brundage:new person between the two conversations. So at times, I
Ashley T. Brundage:started having side dialogue sessions with HR comms person.
Ashley T. Brundage:And then this even got more complicated when we left HR. And
Ashley T. Brundage:we became not a part of HR anymore. And we went into our
Ashley T. Brundage:own business units. And then we got our own business unit comms
Ashley T. Brundage:person for corporate responsibility, which was a
Ashley T. Brundage:collection of three different business units in the company.
Ashley T. Brundage:So that then changed the germs communication message
Ashley T. Brundage:drastically as well set and, and required a lot of changes around
Ashley T. Brundage:because now, you know, it was like, it's always about
Ashley T. Brundage:community. It's about competing for, for real estate on the
Ashley T. Brundage:internet. That's honestly, what not 90% of the conversation was
Ashley T. Brundage:about trying to get your information on the internet for
Ashley T. Brundage:the company. Because that is profit is real estate that's
Ashley T. Brundage:incredibly valued by all the lines of business. And it's
Ashley T. Brundage:about trying to kind of juggle all the balls and the hats for
Ashley T. Brundage:the communication and sense things that people need to think
Ashley T. Brundage:about are happening. It's like an argument. who winds up on the
Ashley T. Brundage:internet, and it's good, but it's real.
Kim Clark:Yeah, yeah, that was my world when I was running
Kim Clark:internal communications for when I was in house. Yes. Yes, it was
Kim Clark:a constant negotiation.
Ashley T. Brundage:Dei, people don't know that or see that
Ashley T. Brundage:side.
Kim Clark:Yeah. Which I can understand. Yeah. Um, you know,
Kim Clark:with. We're recording this the day after Ron DeSantis,
Kim Clark:announced his presidential run. And so in preparation for the
Kim Clark:next cycle of presidential elections that are going to be
Kim Clark:starting next year, but the campaigns have already started.
Kim Clark:We have. For those who can't see right now, Ashley is doing
Kim Clark:breathing techniques. And that's essentially where I want to go
Kim Clark:with this next question is, we as di communicators have got to
Kim Clark:get our planning ahead, around civic responsibility, what is
Kim Clark:our messaging going to be? What is that conversation that we
Kim Clark:need to have with our leaders, of course, I would love to see
Kim Clark:everybody use the depth model from our book, The conscious
Kim Clark:communicator as that guiding framework, but applying your
Kim Clark:employee empowering differences as well. There's differences
Kim Clark:with politics and ideologies that are playing out within
Kim Clark:workspaces right now. And so how is the AI communicators? Do we
Kim Clark:get ahead of this? In preparing our workspaces, and leading the
Kim Clark:narrative rather than constantly being on the knee jerk back end?
Kim Clark:Side of of triage and collateral damage that we're trying to
Kim Clark:control? Like we've done in the past?
Ashley T. Brundage:Oh, gosh. Yeah, well, I mean, I think
Ashley T. Brundage:breathing exercises are important in this space,
Ashley T. Brundage:whenever you're thinking about politics, because the think that
Ashley T. Brundage:it doesn't exist in the workplace is BS. I remember
Ashley T. Brundage:being the DI person and November of 2016, and everyone was
Ashley T. Brundage:thinking we were finally going to break that friggin glass
Ashley T. Brundage:ceiling, and a woman was going to be the president. And
Ashley T. Brundage:instead, we got a reality shot star move. You know, there was
Ashley T. Brundage:that. And all of that happened and people were shocked people
Ashley T. Brundage:were surprised. And I mean, in some people were having some
Ashley T. Brundage:people were upset and this goes back to like, so my model is on
Ashley T. Brundage:measuring how our disempowered people are but it's also about
Ashley T. Brundage:understanding that authority and power are connected to people is
Ashley T. Brundage:actual true empowerment. And the people sighs simple. You know
Ashley T. Brundage:who you are. There are a billion of you on the planet. We got
Ashley T. Brundage:that we can argue that. The power side also can't be our
Ashley T. Brundage:Dude, because the power items are all the tangible business
Ashley T. Brundage:metric items that you have, you have your report, right? You
Ashley T. Brundage:have your ship, shareholder return on investment, and you
Ashley T. Brundage:have, how much time how much money is paid out, right? All
Ashley T. Brundage:that stuff is never argued. They're factual data that's
Ashley T. Brundage:audited financials. Okay, got power, we got people.
Unknown:The authority, on the other hand is where everyone
Unknown:would emotionally lives in this
Ashley T. Brundage:space. I've asked 1000s of people about
Ashley T. Brundage:their authority. And I can tell you, I've gotten 1000s of
Ashley T. Brundage:answers, and they're always all different. But the only thing
Ashley T. Brundage:that they all have in common is that they're very hard to
Ashley T. Brundage:measure and very hard to judge. And people in this space, always
Ashley T. Brundage:change every single second that something happens to them, their
Ashley T. Brundage:authority level changes. When the Supreme Court of the United
Ashley T. Brundage:States of America makes a decision, it either increases
Ashley T. Brundage:someone's authority or lower someone authority, no one
Ashley T. Brundage:actually really ever stays the same. Same reason why trying to
Ashley T. Brundage:acquire work life balance is a wasted effort for organizations.
Ashley T. Brundage:If you are trying to acquire work life balance in this space,
Ashley T. Brundage:literally through what you how you want to have emotional time
Ashley T. Brundage:for what you do, but you want to have time, that you're also
Ashley T. Brundage:wasting your time. Because the teeter totter moves, you move
Ashley T. Brundage:something from one side, then it goes like that goes like that,
Ashley T. Brundage:we put something else on it. So that's literally the same case
Ashley T. Brundage:in relation to how our authority goes, the election is going to
Ashley T. Brundage:happen. People are going to get elected, that's going to happen,
Ashley T. Brundage:you will already know this is going to happen. And when it
Ashley T. Brundage:happens, it's up to you to be ready to enact whatever the plan
Ashley T. Brundage:is regardless. And it needs to make sure that you value all
Ashley T. Brundage:people's emotions, because they exist, there's going to be
Ashley T. Brundage:people who love one potential candidate and people who hate
Ashley T. Brundage:that same candidate. And knowing that that's going to happen,
Ashley T. Brundage:it's going to affect your employees. So if you think
Ashley T. Brundage:pullet political differences don't count in the workplace,
Ashley T. Brundage:you're sorely mistaken, you need to have a plan associated to
Ashley T. Brundage:farming out how people feel about this. And be understanding
Ashley T. Brundage:that they are going to be on one end of the spectrum to the
Ashley T. Brundage:other. And you do that by measuring how empowered people
Ashley T. Brundage:are. That's the secret. If you measure how empowered people
Ashley T. Brundage:are, you're able to know exactly what how they're being impacted.
Ashley T. Brundage:And then you'll know what actions you should provide for
Ashley T. Brundage:them to do.
Kim Clark:Thank you for that. I think so many people, they don't
Kim Clark:have a plan, they they put together like everyone has this
Kim Clark:the you know, civic duty, or we're going to give you the day
Kim Clark:off, and we're signing this pledge that it's going to be you
Kim Clark:know, employee holiday. But that doesn't that's not equitable for
Kim Clark:everybody, of course, and it but it stops there. And then they
Kim Clark:get surprised like it after the 2016 election, for example,
Kim Clark:where I was working in house, we had reports of some areas of the
Kim Clark:business where people were walking in with the red Magga
Kim Clark:hats and fights would ensue. And, and I felt like we needed
Kim Clark:to be ahead of this, we needed to foster some sort of an
Kim Clark:environment around intentionally designing our culture to allow
Kim Clark:these differences and to be within the values of the
Kim Clark:company. And so I really appreciate you giving this like
Kim Clark:clear plan. So everyone, like get Ashley's book empowering
Kim Clark:differences and start the work. This is the time to start
Kim Clark:planning for something that is going to that is going to
Kim Clark:further divide if we don't plan ahead to heal that sense of
Kim Clark:separation between now and then it will will create more, more
Kim Clark:damage that we would have to control more collateral damage
Kim Clark:of our employees, harming our employees. Not just a physical
Kim Clark:way but also in an in a in a vocal and emotional way. And so
Kim Clark:getting ahead of that and setting the tone for what your
Kim Clark:culture stands for and what you're about and taking Ashley's
Kim Clark:advice. Now Ashley, you are born and raised in Florida. You're
Kim Clark:close to what's going on in Florida. And so I would love to
Kim Clark:hear what I'm and I'm outside of Florida. I'm in California and I
Kim Clark:would like to know like what can we do if we're what's going on
Kim Clark:in Florida? First of all, you can kind of give us the inside
Kim Clark:scoop. And then what can we do if we are in Florida or if some
Kim Clark:of our in our listeners outside of Florida? What can we do to
Kim Clark:help to help?
Ashley T. Brundage:Well, I think it stems from back
Ashley T. Brundage:remembering that empowerment is a political nature.
Ashley T. Brundage:Understanding that empowerment is a political in nature,
Ashley T. Brundage:everybody wants it, everybody will accept empowerment. And if
Ashley T. Brundage:you leave with empowerment, then you can overcome any difference
Ashley T. Brundage:that people have even political differences. There's a reason
Ashley T. Brundage:that in the span of six months, last year, I consulted for the
Ashley T. Brundage:Joe Biden White House, and I won an award from the governor of
Ashley T. Brundage:Florida. It's because I work to make empowerment a political. So
Ashley T. Brundage:you can do that chapter, right, in my book is the political
Ashley T. Brundage:dives into political differences and provide chatbots. Okay,
Ashley T. Brundage:yeah, chapter eight in my book talks about political
Ashley T. Brundage:differences, because it's important, it's important to
Ashley T. Brundage:know that if you're empowering people, that's a political as
Ashley T. Brundage:not as not as not part of politics at all. So if you're
Ashley T. Brundage:thinking about what you can do to help people who might be
Ashley T. Brundage:marginalized, because I think that that's maybe what you're
Ashley T. Brundage:getting at. And if you're being marginalized, potentially,
Ashley T. Brundage:you're part of a social identity group. That's happening,
Ashley T. Brundage:whatever you do, don't move. Because that's literally what
Ashley T. Brundage:they want you to do. They're literally trying to force you to
Ashley T. Brundage:do for population migration. Someone is creating a bill to,
Ashley T. Brundage:to an S to enact scare tactics, okay. But most of the people who
Ashley T. Brundage:would be affected from from a bill like that will probably
Ashley T. Brundage:live in a city that already has an ordinance that protects you,
Ashley T. Brundage:or they have someone that's saying that they're gonna stand
Ashley T. Brundage:up for you. But you can do that as well. If you're an ally, and
Ashley T. Brundage:you're listening, and you're thinking, What can I do to help
Ashley T. Brundage:people, you know, stand up and write, write the Congress person
Ashley T. Brundage:and write your Senator, write as many people as you can write the
Ashley T. Brundage:ones that aren't yours, because the more messages they get
Ashley T. Brundage:surrounding these topics in these bills, the more they'll
Ashley T. Brundage:realize that maybe they should have a dialogue about it, and
Ashley T. Brundage:learn because I could literally break down every single one of
Ashley T. Brundage:the main myths that exist about transgender non binary and
Ashley T. Brundage:gender non conforming people pretty easily. Potentially, if
Ashley T. Brundage:somebody wanted me to, if they just gave me five minutes to
Ashley T. Brundage:talk to talk about it can tell them that if it goes back to
Ashley T. Brundage:being about the right of, of we, the people, we the people, okay,
Ashley T. Brundage:that doesn't say we the people that only certain people, it's
Ashley T. Brundage:We the People, as in everybody, and it's individualistic rights,
Ashley T. Brundage:that is what built our nation, having the ability to have
Ashley T. Brundage:freedom from oppression, having the ability to have freedom of
Ashley T. Brundage:the ability to make decisions, and have not government
Ashley T. Brundage:interference upon how you live your life, where you go, like
Ashley T. Brundage:how you use the restroom, and what sports you play. All of
Ashley T. Brundage:those things are about political things that can drive people to
Ashley T. Brundage:have interference. It's not about that. It's about freedom
Ashley T. Brundage:of being the people. That's what it is, we all will agree on
Ashley T. Brundage:that. It's We the People Like literally, that's an easy
Ashley T. Brundage:construct that works across all political majors, sometimes just
Ashley T. Brundage:the nature of the fact that maybe somebody who might have a
Ashley T. Brundage:political difference in you might not understand your point
Ashley T. Brundage:of view. So it's about communication of the point of
Ashley T. Brundage:view, I think that we have to do a better job of painting that
Ashley T. Brundage:narrative and communicating
Kim Clark:1,000% You know, that earlier this week, I did a an in
Kim Clark:person presentation in front of a fraction of the defense
Kim Clark:industry, Department of Defense. And I, you know, they opened up
Kim Clark:the entire conferences, day long conference doing the Pledge of
Kim Clark:Allegiance. And so I basically when I started my presentation,
Kim Clark:I said what are the last five words of the Pledge of
Kim Clark:Allegiance, liberty and justice for all? And I said, Do you mean
Kim Clark:that because that's the promise of America, you know, and you
Kim Clark:were talking about the way that people and it's like so liberty
Kim Clark:and justice for all. It has to play out through and through
Kim Clark:that's what we say. So that's what we must do and as
Kim Clark:communicators we understand this but we're also really wrestling
Kim Clark:with that say do gap which we're seeing because when the time
Kim Clark:that we're recording this target is getting targeted for the
Kim Clark:backlash of pulling back pride merchandise, etc Bud Light
Kim Clark:backing up. Miller Lite leaning in you know, there's there's all
Kim Clark:kinds of different, you know, shifts and changes going on
Kim Clark:right now. But we're really struggling with like we stand in
Kim Clark:solidarity with the LGBTQ plus community, and yet we're not
Kim Clark:able to withstand pressure and backlash within our stores, etc.
Kim Clark:So that was my newsletter topic today. Actually, we say that we
Kim Clark:can stand but we're not able to withstand. I'm going to wrap up
Kim Clark:our conversation here, Ashley with what your guide and advice
Kim Clark:would be for folks on ensuring that pride is not performative.
Kim Clark:And if you don't mind speaking specifically, on ways that we
Kim Clark:can provide protections, and messaging for protections around
Kim Clark:transgender rights and rights to exist, etc.
Ashley T. Brundage:Yeah, I mean, I think the thing I was
Ashley T. Brundage:just mentioning is probably the biggest thing that you can use
Ashley T. Brundage:research to break down some of the Eastern myths that exist.
Ashley T. Brundage:The biggest thing here is that there are laws that already
Ashley T. Brundage:exist on the books in every single municipality in the
Ashley T. Brundage:United States alone, that already protect people from
Ashley T. Brundage:common decency and indecency and America any other thing in
Ashley T. Brundage:relation to that, like, if somebody's going to expose
Ashley T. Brundage:themselves, then that's going to be illegal. I mean, we don't
Ashley T. Brundage:need an additional bill or piece of legislation that's going to
Ashley T. Brundage:protect people further from that, because that's already
Ashley T. Brundage:illegal. And I think that a lot of people don't even realize
Ashley T. Brundage:that some of these things doesn't make that they don't
Ashley T. Brundage:make a lot of sense. And it goes back to like parents right to
Ashley T. Brundage:choose. Parents should have the opportunity to choose what they
Ashley T. Brundage:do and how they raise their children. government shouldn't
Ashley T. Brundage:have any interference over that. I think that that's a big thing.
Ashley T. Brundage:Also, like, you know, if I wanted to take my kids to drag
Ashley T. Brundage:queen story hour, that's should be my choice. As a parent, if I
Ashley T. Brundage:want to take my kids drag things drag me story up. Of course, if
Ashley T. Brundage:I show up and the drag queen is dressed, lewd and lascivious,
Ashley T. Brundage:then that's illegal already, regardless of whether there's an
Ashley T. Brundage:ordinance and and then if I choose to take my kids to
Ashley T. Brundage:Hooters, and taking them to Hooters, where the waitresses or
Ashley T. Brundage:waiters, waitstaff is, is sexualized in nature, then so be
Ashley T. Brundage:it. And then I've chosen to take my two boys to stratify them. So
Ashley T. Brundage:I've done that. And I have done that. And I'm taking them to the
Ashley T. Brundage:Pride Parade also, and expose them to the pride parade. And
Ashley T. Brundage:then it's their choice. It's their choice to meet people who
Ashley T. Brundage:are different, because we are all people. This goes back to
Ashley T. Brundage:this thing, we have to make sure that we help people understand
Ashley T. Brundage:that what's going on here is wrong. There's already there's
Ashley T. Brundage:already bills and laws on the books that protect people from
Ashley T. Brundage:every potential wrong thing that happens, in fact, we should
Ashley T. Brundage:probably focus a little bit more on the clergy officials and
Ashley T. Brundage:legislative people who've been arrested are lewd and lascivious
Ashley T. Brundage:acts, which is a heck of a lot more than transgender people
Ashley T. Brundage:who've been arrested.
Kim Clark:Thank you, thank you. It's incredibly important. You
Kim Clark:know, one of the things that I always share with clients are
Kim Clark:these three C's. It's a very basic formula of, of cultural
Kim Clark:moments. And and that is first celebrate, yes, thank you for
Kim Clark:the visibility, appreciate it. But you can't stop there. But
Kim Clark:that's where companies they want to have the goodwill, they want
Kim Clark:to, you know, store up the goodwill score some points, and
Kim Clark:they stop at celebrate, they don't go to the part of the
Kim Clark:crisis, or the community of why we have pride in the first
Kim Clark:place. And what is impacting the community that we're
Kim Clark:celebrating, right here right now. So there are people who are
Kim Clark:afraid of going out to pride parades because of their own
Kim Clark:safety, and where we are right now. So while we want to
Kim Clark:celebrate can we celebrate, you know, safely? So talking about
Kim Clark:that crisis, kind of a situation and there's so many there's what
Kim Clark:550 bills, anti LGBTQ plus bills across the country right now.
Kim Clark:And then the last is the consistency don't only talk
Kim Clark:about LGBTQ plus folks just in June, or if you're in the UK in
Kim Clark:October, right. And I you know, there's various places that that
Kim Clark:that celebrate at different times, but companies tend to in
Kim Clark:the US focus on on June. And so this this idea of like, yes,
Kim Clark:there's the celebration, but there's these other things.
Kim Clark:That's where you make that shift from being performative to
Kim Clark:meaningful and having impact and really not just standing as the
Kim Clark:target CEO said for the LGBTQ plus community, but you're
Kim Clark:withstanding any kind of pressure to not stand with the
Kim Clark:LGBTQ plus and so you gotta you have to put your put your
Kim Clark:actions where your mouth is, and we as communicators can really
Kim Clark:drive that conversation because visibility drives
Kim Clark:accountability. Any final thoughts Ashley, and then where
Kim Clark:can people find you and find your book?
Ashley T. Brundage:Yeah, just I mean, thank thank you for having
Ashley T. Brundage:me. It's been so good dialogue as they're so important to
Ashley T. Brundage:helping people realize the actual impacts of their work and
Ashley T. Brundage:how to communicate it. I think that's really important. I mean,
Ashley T. Brundage:the communication always really matters. I mean, that's what
Ashley T. Brundage:makes the difference so much. And I call it inspire. And my
Ashley T. Brundage:framework is how we address communication by inspiring
Ashley T. Brundage:people. And because obviously, comms is not necessarily always
Ashley T. Brundage:a sexy word. So that's why we call it inspire in my framework.
Ashley T. Brundage:So that's how we drive inspiration. Empowerment for
Ashley T. Brundage:people is through inspire as an empowering action. That's one of
Ashley T. Brundage:the 10 actions in my framework. But yeah, you can connect with
Ashley T. Brundage:me at Ashley T Brundage, a sh, le YTBRU, en da, GE, you can
Ashley T. Brundage:find me pretty easily when you Google my name, you'll see I
Ashley T. Brundage:have like the first 30 pages of Google.
Kim Clark:I saw that Yes.
Ashley T. Brundage:Every single one is me. And then you can
Ashley T. Brundage:connect with my book empowering differences, my leadership
Ashley T. Brundage:course empowering differences, my workbook empowering
Ashley T. Brundage:differences, and empowering differences.com. That's your one
Ashley T. Brundage:stop shop for all things empowerment, and where we can
Ashley T. Brundage:all leverage all of our differences to impact change.
Kim Clark:And that's where people can do a self assessment
Kim Clark:for free. Is that right?
Ashley T. Brundage:Yes, they can download the self assessment
Ashley T. Brundage:tied to step one and empowerment journey. If they want to engage
Ashley T. Brundage:with the digital empowerment assessment to get their
Ashley T. Brundage:personalized empowerment report. That's actually part of my
Ashley T. Brundage:career. They have to be involved in the curriculum for that. But
Ashley T. Brundage:for the first, the first step is, yeah, they just click the
Ashley T. Brundage:Self Assessment tab.
Kim Clark:Sweet. Excellent, Ashley. Thank you. It's not
Kim Clark:going to be our last time together. I know it, we're going
Kim Clark:to continue to grow and help as many people as we can to get
Kim Clark:them through probably the most recent history, the most
Kim Clark:turbulent times at least of my generation being Gen X. So thank
Kim Clark:you for what you're doing in Florida. We want you and
Kim Clark:everybody within the community safe, and we're going to do all
Kim Clark:that we can to make sure that that happens. Thank you for your
