Magazine Edition: Impactful Missions. Zoom Fatigue. Demise of Small Talk. | MAG003

Hello, listeners. This is CEO coach Liam Chrismer. Welcome to the magazine edition of CEO matters. This is my short form podcast, where I discuss a number of topics that I call pages. It's an audio newsletter, where you can pick up leadership styles, wellbeing, and personal growth tips, book reviews, quotes, and whatever else I think might help you live and lead better. The point is to serve up news you can use without all the fluff. So let's get to the pages.

Here we are with another edition of CEO matters. And I want to welcome you back, I want to let you know that I am exceedingly grateful that you are spending your time with me. And I promise I will not let you down I will not waste your time. My objective is that you will walk away from this listen with maybe a smile on your face, maybe some inspiration, maybe a different perspective, some information that you didn't know earlier, the ideas that you leave with you leave with information so that you can live and lead better. As I have said on previous podcast, I I don't rewind the tape and do a lot of editing. So what you hear is what you get. So I'm still in my infancy and and I'll get better as I go along. So let's get into it. We've got seven page flips for you today. So let's get right into it. Really excited about this episode because I think I've got some very interesting content. I'm excited about it. So I really hope that comes across we are going to talk about our CEO spotlight and in this edition, it's Joey zwillinger. I hope I pronounced that right. Joey zwillinger who is the CEO of Allbirds. Let me just go through my notes here quickly knee injury UC Berkeley, could one person make a big difference, offering that as attractive to the consumer start a 2015 framework for sustainability. genuine and authentic leadership. Vertical retailer all natural materials digital retailer, he color codes is weak. He prioritizes the urgent community building believes communication is key clarity, frequency vulnerability. Yeah, those are the notes. This is one cool, very cool guy. His parents Joey's instead of calling him Mr. zwillinger Because I know I'm going to butcher that I may be butchering it already, but I'm going to call him Joey. That's his name, Joey. Joey's parents were psychologist, and they took one big trip per year. And I think on one of these trips, is a camping trip. It was cold and rained, and it was just miserable. And, and so they had to, they had to tough it out. They had to get through it. And, and that's what they did. And what was imprinted on Joy's brain pretty early on, was maintaining a sense of urgency and making courageous bets. Maintaining a sense of urgency and taking or making rather courageous bets. I think that's a mouthful. It's hard to say but it's a lot harder to do. And making courageous bets. That's really that's really how the company started. His partner Joe, his partner, his name is Tim Brown. He's a native New Zealander. And they started kicking and he was a soccer player, former soccer player, and so they both like soccer, sports. And they were kicking around the idea of starting this company. And Tim sat down with his wife and they talked about it and I can picture them sitting there one evening over the kitchen table. Maybe having a beer, maybe having coffee, I don't know. But they got the calculator out and they're a couple of pants. They're figuring out their budget. And what they came up with was that they had about two years.

I think the wives got together. And they went to the guys, Joey and Tim and said, alright, alright, fellas, if you want to do this, go ahead, you've got two years. So either you make it, or you break it. And that was in 2015, when they started the company, and I'm recording this in early 2022. In the fourth quarter of last year, 2021, they went public, and the company was valued at somewhere around $2.4 billion. Not bad for a two year bet. Not bad at all. Sustainability. And rhythm is at the heart of everything they do at all birds that utilize natural materials, they reduce the carbon footprint, they've even got some kind of a number or a score that they use in the various shoes so that when people make a purchase, and they buy all birds shoes, they have an idea as to what kind of a carbon footprint it's making. It's good thing people can feel good about the purchase they make. They're buying a product that looks good, feels good, it's comfortable. It's made of all natural products. It's sustainable. It's pretty cool deal. They, as I said, when I read off the notes, they they started vertically, and that is that they would manufacture their shoes, and they would sell directly to the consumer on the internet. And only recently did they start opening brick and mortar stores. And they have since realized that that that's really key to their strategy. And what happens is people come in, and they're greeted by a by an Allbirds retail clerk, who knows the story, who knows the story believes in the mission of Allbirds what they're doing. They believe in that impact, right? They believe that the company they work for is having a positive impact on the planet. Of course, they know the shoes, so they fit the person and explain what it's all about. And so you can you can just imagine that this, this consumer is getting the story and feeling better and better and better about the product. And then they walk around the store and it feels good. And it looks good, as I said earlier, and they buy it and guess what happens they take their shoes home. And they like them so much that they go on the they go online and they buy more shoes. It's really kind of a cool deal. Joyce partner, Tim Brown is a native New Zealander. And they named the company Allbirds because the rest of my notes here, they named the company Allbirds because in New Zealand, they have almost no native land mammals. It is a land of all birds. So companies all birds. Joey, intentional, deliberate, in how he approaches everything that he does this rhythm into his management style, this rhythm to his life. It's almost like a symphony. One of his guiding principles is to link profit and impact. For Joey, of course, profit is is is important. They're a public company. Now, of course, they have to be concerned about profitability, they they they have to provide a return for their shareholders. Well, I think they do. You know, there are some companies out there like, like Uber and Lyft, that when they went public, they they announced to their prospective shareholders that because of their model, they may never make money. But that's not what Joey is all about. He's about combining profit and making an impact. And for Joey words are important and I think impact goes beyond purpose. Purpose is good. You have a purpose for what you're doing. You know what you're doing, you know why you're doing it, but impact. That's a different word that says it's more powerful. It has a loftier notion about it has more gravity. And going back to that camping trip, Joy says that. Now he is driven by the fear of future regret. And that's what translates into this culture of urgency and courageous bets. urgency and courageous bets. Again, I love that phrase. And that's how you get from starting a company in 2015. To going public, and reaching a market valuation of $2.4 billion in just six years. It's pretty darn, pretty darn cool. Joy says that business is about being a dynamic leader. And we all know that people, they don't quit companies, they quit management, they quit the person they're working for, they lose confidence in the management team. And Joey is very big on communication. He says that you, you really need to be transparent. People leave when they don't understand how decisions are made, and what is happening. So one of the things that Joey and Tim do is that they're very clear about who they are about what they're doing, where they're going, what's going on. He has three principles that he lives by. Number one is to be yourself. Don't be somebody else, Link purpose, or in his case, impact and profitability. And understand that the rules of the game can be changed. He doesn't suggest that you violate the law or break the law, or hurt people or play shenanigans or anything like that. But you do, can't you you know, you can challenge the status quo. That's what Steve Jobs did. That's what Elon Musk is doing. That's what Jeff Bezos has done. That's what fridge Fred Smith with FedEx way back in the day did. The rules of the game can be changed, they can be challenged. And I think that's the definition of disruption in business. Here are Joey's top tips for CEOs. I guess I just kind of went through, be yourself. Truly Be yourself. Number two, Link impact our purpose and profit. Number three, let people know how decisions are made. And be fully transparent about what's going on good or bad. And the rules of the game can be changed. Yep. I just went through them all. So that is Joey zwillinger. That is Allbirds. And as I said, I'm going to work very hard to get Joey on a masterclass episode, I think he would be absolutely fantastic.

Let's, let's move on to page two. And on page two, it is thought for me. And it's about it. This is gonna sound like a, like a reprimand you know, in the fourth grade from, from a Catholic school teacher that wax your knuckles with you know, it's hard to listen, these days, we're distracted. We're tempted to multitask. And come on, let's let's admit it. We all multitask when we're on all those zoom calls, don't we? I know I did today. I was checking my emails. And I was looking for messages. And I like to take notes on this grid paper. It's got these little blue boxes, and I had my mechanical pencil in there I was, you know, filling in the little, little boxes. I wasn't really paying attention. He reminds me that the mother of my children used to say that I didn't listen to her. Or at least I think that's what she said. It's an it's an old joke. And Jerry Lewis actually in the comedian Jerry, Jerry Lewis, I met him once and he actually told me that, you know, what makes a joke funny is that there's an element of truth in it. And that's what really what makes it makes it funny. Maybe I should have listened to my wife more because she's a very smart person. Maybe we'd still be married. But the point is not my marriage or the demise of my marriage. The point is about attention versus listening. It's not about whether or not we're listening. I recently heard this quote that attention is the fuel of our success. Attention is the fuel of our success. Isn't that how Warren Buffett became so successful? He simply paid attention. He still does. He also reads a lot. The guy reads like eight hours a day. As a kid he would sit outside on the on the stoop outside his front door and he would Write down all the license plate numbers of the cars that went down the cul de sac where he lived. Back then soda or pop, however you call it came in bottles. They had bottle caps. So Warren Buffett would collect those bottle caps, and he would collect them and put them in different boxes based on what the brand was or what the flavor was. And he organized them by brand and by type of pop or soda. He went into the hospital as a kid for, I think, to have his tonsils out or some kind of minor surgery, and he got a gift. And the gift was a finger printing kit. So Warren promptly fingerprinted all of the Catholic nurses. And his idea as a kid was, well, if you know somebody, you know, robbed a house on his block. Well, he'd have the license plate numbers of everybody that went down the street, if, you know, one of the nurses did something bad, he was probably the only one that had their fingerprints. But Warren Buffett did was he paid attention, and he drew insights from the information that he collected. I'm reminded of Seth Godin, who says that, and Seth Godin, you know, he's written, how many books 30 Books, he's written a blog post every day for, I don't know, 1015 years. And what Seth Godin says is that he notices things. So here's the point. Let's bring as much attention to the moment as we can. In the process, we can listen for insights, right? Not so much for information. We're gonna forget the details anyway, you know, we forget some astronomical percentage of what we hear and what we read what we learned. And the point is that information we can look up, we can look it up on our cell phones. Insights, on the other hand, have a greater value, higher currency. Insights change our perspective. Jeff Bezos said that the common question that gets asked in business is why Simon Sinek has made an entire career out of start with why. And basil says that's a good question. But an equally valid question is why not. So here it is attention over listening, Insight over information. So that's, that's my thought, for the day or for the broadcast.

On page three, we have one wellbeing tip. Now, this is kind of old, I would say, you know, it's been relevant for two years now. And probably even more relevant today. Zoom fatigue. Remember when the pandemic hit and video conferencing, and these video platforms were all the rage zoom, of course, the most popular among them, the first and we were all so cool, you know, we could shutter in place and stay connected and have virtual cocktails. And as best we could keep business going without ever leaving home. And we've been doing that for a long time. Fast forward the tape two years, spouse comes home or you know, one is in one room the other is in is in another room or at the kitchen table and you meet up at five o'clock, six o'clock and one says Well, how was your day honey? How was my day seriously. I have been chained here the kitchen table. Or the ever so chic IKEA workstation for the past 12 hours. One zoom call after another. A friend of mine business associate. I think he takes his first zoom calls somewhere around four in the morning. And he and I hook up generally later in the afternoon around four o'clock. This is after he's been doing zoom calls all day. 12 hours of zoom calls. Now, back to back meetings is nothing new. We've been we've been debating whether or not meetings are productive at all. Ever since. Ever since Adam, question whether the pre Apple fest meeting with the serpent was necessary. But back in the day pre pandemic. Mr. Front you had you had a meeting over breakfast. You went to the office. You had another meeting They're chatting with colleagues did this did that went up to the third floor had another meeting there it ran 10 minutes over, you dashed up to the sixth floor. You went into a meeting there. Maybe there was a luncheon. Something else to do in the afternoon. And maybe you met with client for drinks after work. The difference is that you were moving, different scenery, different people, you weren't 18 inches from your screen, but someone else 18 inches from from from their screen, you weren't staring at a picture of yourself of live video of yourself for 12 hours. You know, it's like a it's like a dystopian movie. I don't really know what dystopian means. I should look that up. But I think it has something to do with the future, something bleak and dark and not pleasant. But it's like a movie where people are chained to their chairs. And they're forced to stare into the screens into these monitors for not moving for, from before sunup to after sundown. Except that it's not a movie. It's real life. So what do we do about it? You know, we the truth is that this virtual thing is not a fad. It's not a face, it's here to stay. It's part of our lives. Now. There's a couple of things we can do. You know, again, it gets to perspective, it gets to inspiration, as I was talking earlier, you know about, about paying attention having perspective. The first thing is to accept it. Now, this isn't my idea. This really comes from a really bright guy that I have a lot of respect for. He is another guy I want to get on the podcast. His name is Brad Stolberg. And his latest book is called the principle of groundedness. nothing groundbreaking pun intended in that book, but but simply a framework for for how to become more grounded a framework for getting yourself centered. And the first of I think six of those principles is acceptance. And so I think, to counter resume fatigue, what we do is just accept that it's part of our life. And don't get frustrated by it. But don't allow it to take over your life either. Accept it, but set some boundaries about how many, how many of these meetings you'll do, how many in a row, how long you'll go. The second thing I think you can do is be selective. You know, let's question Do I need to be in this meeting? Do I have to be in the meeting? For the entire? Do I have to be here for the entire meeting? How about I just give my presentation. And, and I'll and I'll read the the recap notes of the meeting, it's time to kill FOMO the fear of missing out. If you need to be there, then you got to be on the call. But if you don't have to be there, don't. If you don't have to be there for the entire meeting. Don't just sit there and stare at everyone multitask and not pay attention. Except that this is part of our life. Be selective. Number three, don't schedule meetings back to back to back to back like my friend does from 4am until five or 6pm one zoom call after another you know limited to a couple of hours do you really do you really think we can be we can we can pay attention for that long and have our and maintain our energy and our acuity have sharp decision making. We've been staring at a screen all day long. I don't think so. I think we got to I think we got to be selective and set boundaries. For how many of these Zoom video conferencing meetings we'll do number four. This one's big, simple, but big move. Get up. Walk you know like we used to the breakfast meeting and the meeting on the third floor the meeting on the sixth floor, get up and move. We were not designed to sit for long periods of time. Much to the chagrin of ligron lions and tigers and bears. We weren't meant to sit for hours and stare at screens. We need sunshine we need fresh air we need to move our bodies we need to get our blood flowing. That's what we need to do. It's about our well being it's about maintaining our energy. Our bodies our gut our minds our heart. So you got to get up and move. Last one. When you need a break call a timeout. They do it in sports. You know they have halftime they have the seventh inning stretch you know the the captain of the team makes a tee with his two hands and they call a timeout and they regroup and they reset call a timeout, say hey, can we take five? Can we take 10, refresh, hydrate, grab a snack, take care of what you need to take care of divert your attention for a few. Hey, that's when you can check your email and your messages recenter and then re engage. So think about this, this whole zoom fatigue thing and don't let it take over your life. Remember that as a CEO, you're a role model. You've got a model the behavior for others to follow. It's about living better and leading better zoom fatigue.

Let's move on to the next page. One quote, All right, I like I've got three quotes, but they're shorter. I think they're relevant to what we're talking about. Notable quotables. This one is very relevant to the spotlight on Joey zwillinger. This is from Howard Schultz, the CEO of Starbucks. Howard Schultz said in this ever changing society, the most powerful and enduring brands are built from the heart. They are real and sustainable. Their foundations are stronger, because they are built with the strength of the human spirit, and not an ad campaign. The companies that are lasting are those that are authentic. That's from Howard Schultz. And that's what Joey is doing. At Allbirds. It's real, it's sustainable. It's built from the heart. Wow. Jeffrey, I melt or MLT, I can't pronounce it. CEO of General Electric. Jeffrey said this, I'm responsible for this company. I stand behind the results. I know the details. And I think the CEO has to be the moral leader of the company. I think high standards are good. But let's not let anybody can be confused. It's about performance with integrity. That's what you have to do. performance with integrity. Jeffrey is a graduate of the Jack Welch School of Business. So there's got to be that performance built into it. But again, the CEO is the moral leader, being responsible standing behind the results being authentic, being vulnerable, knowing the numbers. last quote, it's great one, Fred Smith, CEO of FedEx, what does now FedEx leaders get out in front and they stay there by raising the standards by which they judge themselves and by which they are willing to be judged. Remember their their quote from years ago, when it absolutely positively has to be there overnight. Then you FedExed it. There's a story could be a myth. That was that the CFO came into Fred Smith's office one Friday and said we got a problem. Fred Smith said, Okay, what's the problem? So the problem is that today's payroll, and we've only got $25,000 in the bank. Fred Smith, said to the CFO, go get the money. He did. They flew to Las Vegas. They gambled the money, and they came back with payroll. Now, I don't know if that's true or not, but I want it to be true. He said leaders get out in front, they stay there by raising the standards by which they judge themselves and by which they are willing to be judged. Again, it gets back to the CEO, being vulnerable, being authentic, taking the bullets and leading. I think all of these support the management philosophy of Joey's Willinger and Allbirds.

We're going on to page four. This is my one, my one skill. I call it go deep, the demise of small talk. What I do with my notes, I got papers, I got papers all over my desk here. I'm recording this in my office and not in not in the studio because it's snowing and nasty outside and I didn't want to drive downtown. Go deep the demise of small talk many, many years ago. I took one of these free university classes it was called the fine art of small talk. And I got to know the person it was kind of a play on words. Her name is Debra fine. And she built a career on the fine art of small talk. And it was about how you strike up a conversation with someone you don't know you know what to do when you're standing in the grocery line. That was back before we were scanning our own groceries and paying at the pump and doing our bank at an ATM or online, you know we had to meet people is pre pandemic, we actually met people. And we thought about the inane, superficial way in which we engage. Certainly people we don't know but often people that we do know you know, crazy weather we're having right? Oh, yeah, it's a little early for it to be this cold. Hey, just see the game last night. Hey, yeah, let's grab a cup of coffee. Yeah, a cup of coffee. Good. I'll give you a call. Yeah, cool. That'd be great. It's very deep. Reminds me of that stupid joke about two guys. They're talking and one guy says dude, yeah, dude. Sup? Girlfriend stepping out on me? Yeah, yeah, dumper. Yeah, yeah, dumper. Yeah, good talk. See if it's inane, stupid, but it's how many of these superficial conversations go happens in real life. You know, what we want is deeper connection. The pandemic has driven us further and further away from people. And we don't have as much human connection as we used to have, and we need that human connection. The real truth is that people don't want to hear us talk about the weather, or the weekend's game. Studies show that we really do want to have deeper conversations. We're longing for the real thing. Remember that Coca Cola ad for many, many years ago, Coca Cola the real thing. Recent studies show that deeper conversations create opportunities for greater social engagement. And that's what we need. Deeper. You know, the quarterback says to the receiver, go deep. Well, that's what we've got to do in our interactions with people. We've got to remember to go deep. It makes us stand out. People want to see your vulnerability. They want to know that you're a real person. They want to know that you've made mistakes. They're not looking for perfection. They're looking for authenticity, the real deal. I'm going to clap now.

Now we're under Page Six. This is the book section. Now I'm not going to read you a book review. But I I have a lot of respect for Adam Grant. Adam Grant is a professor, a researcher at the Wharton School. He's studies Organizational Psychology, and he's a really bright guy. And he writes really cool books. They're very readable books. His most recent one is Think again. And, you know, it's a it's a similar theme as to what we've been thinking, talking about on this podcast. It's about perspective, and reevaluating how you think about things. Alright, so what Adam does is at least twice maybe, I don't know, it could be three or four times a year, he comes out with his his new book list. And this one is the 12 new idea books to brighten your winter. Now, I'm not going to read you 12 book reviews, but I thought I would go through the list with you. I don't know how Adam Grant reads this many books. Maybe it doesn't, but I suspect he does. And some of the books haven't even been published yet. He's already read them. I don't think that's fair. But he's got them organized into emotions and happiness, motivation and attention. There's a word again, attention, thinking and reasoning, perspective. And the last category is influence and change. Back to Joanne impact. Here's a quick rundown of these books. Number one, the power of regret by Dan Pink. Dan Pink is right up there with Adam Grant. Read everything that he he writes. Basically, the book is about shattering the myth that you should live with no regrets. I fear that this might be one of those books where the essence of the book is in a paragraph, you know.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Don't regret do your best to move on and it gets ballooned up into 300 pages but the power of regret by Dan Pink as I said anything that Dan Pink writes is worth a look number two toxic positivity by Whitney Goodman. A thoughtful therapist walks you through strategies for sitting with your own painful feelings and making space for others to express their struggles. I'm sorry, Adam, but I don't know how this Gonna brighten my winter I don't think I'm going to be reading toxic positivity, the power of fun by Katherine price. Now that sounds like you know what I'm going to say that sounds like more fun. And what is this a journalist offers a roadmap for making your days more fun, more play and moving from languishing to flourishing. You're going to hear about that in a future episode about this languishing thing and hopefully nobody's doing that. But some of us I think, maybe leave you know or meet or maybe our our rigor, not rigor, vigor or vigor meter, maybe more on the languishing side than on the flourishing side. Moving on to motivation and attention number four, I didn't do the thing today by Madeline door. You know, for years, we've been reading these productivity books and we do our to do lists and we check things off and we get that little shot of dopamine, it makes us feel good. Then somebody came up with the idea of hey, how about this, why don't we have a don't do list, which I think is stupid, you know, we have to keep a list of things to do. And another list of things not to do, that's just dumb. Probably not going to read I didn't do the thing today, either. I got a lot of things I don't do every single day. And then number four, followed right up with number five, get it done. So number four is I didn't do the thing today and number five is get it done by Ayelet Fishbach. A leading social psychologist offer surprising and useful insights for closing the gap between your intentions and your actions. I thought Nike already did that in three words, just do it. Number six stolen focus by Johann Hari. critic of our modern malaise explains why we've lost the capacity to concentrate and how we can win the war on distraction that one might be worth at least reading the jacket cover. You know multitasking not paying attention not listening to your wife, your husband. thinking and reasoning category number seven making numbers count by Chip Heath and Carla Starr chip Heath right up there in the category with Dan Pink. And it was the other guy. Oh, Dan Pink and and Adam Grant making numbers count. A cure for statistical illiterate ill I can't say that word illiteracy. You know, numbers matter. That might be worth reading the cover to number eight, the eye test. A journalist convincingly illuminates when the patterns of the past don't always predict the future. And why we need people in the analytics equation that just sounds boring as hell, not reading the eye test. Maybe I'll listen to it and well enough, forget it. Number nine, raising critical thinkers by Julie Bogart. raising your kids I think to become more thoughtful and to. Yeah, isn't that common sense? You know, look before you leap, read the label. Look both ways before you cross the street. Common sense things like that, in the influence and change category, the revenge of power by Moises nyeem. Defending democracy in our own backyards. Yeah, for the political types might be worth reading. But if I can only read one book in this category, I'm going to read number 11. The Black Agenda by Anna Gifty, Appu Akiyama, I'm sure I butchered that. And award winning founder and change maker brings together prominent black scholars to examine what we can do to fight systemic racism and build a more just world. Yes, required reading for everybody. Some things are just wrong, people should not be murdered. Just because you were a badge. Some things are just wrong, and we need to educate ourselves and take a stand for it. Particularly CEOs that are role models.

Number 12. from strength to strength by Arthur Brooks, that's not due out until next month, the social scientist who wrote a viral article on middle age career decline examines how we can reverse that trend to find happiness, meaning and success in the second half of life. That book should be read by Chip Conley, who I have enormous respect for. Who started the joy of Eve hotel chain in San Francisco has written wonderful books including wisdom at work and founded the modern elder Academy. The fact of the matter is that in the last 100 years, we've added 30 years to our lifespan and that shows up smack in the middle of our lives. We have long lives to live.

We're on to page seven. This is diversions. This is where we Stop talking about, you know, working and being our best and getting better and all that jazz. Here's the truth. I don't have a diversion for you this time I tried. I don't like that word tried. I just didn't do it. I don't have one. For me a diversion is something that you enjoy something that brings you joy, something that sparks curiosity and awe, it could be an art museum, it could be taking a walk in nature could be a hike. For me. It's hotel lobbies. It's small cities, it's coffee shops. It's small cocktail bars with exquisitely crafted cocktails. And I find these little diversions on an app that's called Flipboard. Flipboard. You maybe know about it, maybe you don't, if you don't know about Flipboard, go download it right now. Flipboard. And what you do is you set up magazines, and you curate articles and you put them into your magazine. And you can read them when you want to or you can share them or do whatever you want with them. Me, I never read them, I just simply curate them. And, for example, I have a number of magazines, I have SEO matters, which are you folks peruse which is just a general kitchen junk drawer where I put articles, I don't know where else to put them, cooking fitness cocktails. Just so you know. You're going to hate me after this and never listened again, in the peruse category, sort of the unclassified articles that I want to read one day. Get this I have 44,197 stories in my peruse magazine 44,000. I have 9846 in the cooking category. I have 1245 and fitness 1371 in cocktails. And then CEO matters, which is my life work. I have 568 stories. So it really comes down to this. I like to cook more than I like to work out and I like to work out less than I like to drink that's cocktails. And I'd like to eat, workout and drank less than I like to study my life's work. It's not very good as it but in this collection of articles are sometimes interesting things that I bring you a place to go. I've got things in here about museums to go to and here's one, maybe this is for future one. Because I've never this never really occurred to me, you know perspective. How about this? Here's why there are 10 hot dog buns in a pack, but only eight. Here's why there are 10 Hot dogs in a pack, but only eight bonds. I figured that out. I don't know. So there you have it. Go to Flipboard put it on your phone. When you don't have anything to do, you can create nearly 50,000 articles never read them. Thank you so much for listening to this edition of CEO matters, the magazine edition. I hope you got something out of it. I love it that you're here. I went over my 42 minutes. I'm now at nearly 45 minutes. So thank you so much and please tune in again.