Behind The Mic: with Jenn Taylor, Mom of 18, Host of At A Crossroads with The Naked Podcaster

This is amplify you the podcast about you discovering your message and broadcasting it to the world. If you're a coach, author or speaker, you'll want to tune in. If you're looking for the best return on your time investment to get your message out to the world in a bigger weight. We're giving you full access behind the scenes look of how we're running our podcasts, how our clients have found success, and what you can do to launch your podcast today. The world needs your message. I'm Michelle Abraham, the host join my family as we unleash your unique genius and find the connections you need to launch your adventure today. Join us and let's get amplified. Hello, hello amplify your family Michelle Abraham here. I am thrilled to bring you I guess today she is so amazing. She will find your mum of att.com. That's right a mom of 18. She is none other than Jen Taylor, who is the host of the amazing podcast at a crossroads with a naked podcast search and Taylor, Jen and today we're gonna dive into a behind the mic interview all about your podcast, and I'm looking forward to diving right in. So Jen. Hi, welcome. Thank you for being with his with us today.

I'm super excited. This is really fun.

Yes, I love it. So first of all, tell us your podcasting story. Like what made you want to start a podcast? And how do we get here today because you're now like 300, and something episodes in, and it's going great.

I wrote a book five years ago, August of 2016, the book was released. And it was my story growing up in dysfunction. So one of the things I did in the book was I talked about the struggle really in, you know, graphic detail of the struggle that I was going through, growing up. And at the enemies chapter I talked about, like the the who, what, when, where, how I got through that and what skills that I was building without realizing I was building them because like as a six year old, or a nine year old or 15, over even in your 20s you don't always recognize what you're learning from the situation. But in hindsight, I knew what I had been learning in those situations and what type of skill sets I was building through going through these struggles. And when the book was published, I was like, obviously, I was really proud of myself. That's a big accomplishment. And I thought, you know, 85% of people who want to write a book, don't end up writing a book. And I wanted to help everybody write a book. I was so excited about this, I was going to help people write a book, because if I could do it, anybody could do it. And that was a square peg in a round hole, which happens often in life where it just doesn't work. About nine months after the book was released, my husband's best friend who had a very successful podcast said, why don't you start a podcast and he handed me my first microphone. And I just started a podcast, I didn't really know that much of what I was doing. I didn't know to have four episodes to release, like I learned some of the rules. And I wish I had a good microphone. Otherwise, I had no idea what I was doing, except that I kept the platform of my book the same. The way that I do that on the podcast is we talk about who you are now what you're doing, I have attracted almost all of my guests in four and a half years have been entrepreneurs, which is interesting that I'm not looking for that. But that's somehow what I've attracted and fantastic. And so we talked about what they're doing right now and not, I want to get a client you should work for me. Like I love what I do. I'm passionate about what I do. It's incredible. I'm so happy, I feel blessed. I mean, whatever the things are, that they feel in running their own business and helping other people. I don't think we talk about ourselves in a positive way. Often enough, we it's real easy to focus on the negative stuff or the things that we would do different or that we're we've messed up. But just to be really enthusiastic and excited about this is what I do. And then we go back in time and back in time could be like I was born and it was terrible. Or things were great upper middle class parents married 50 years, things were great. But then this happened. And I always tell my guests, you don't wake up today and decide out of the blue. Today you're going to commit suicide.

There's a story before that story. When I dive in with my guests, I dive into the story before the story like lead me up to this lead me up to being on the bathroom floor, sobbing curled up with pills in your hand and a fifth of vodka. Like what what what was the trauma? What were the things that happened before then obviously I'm using suicide as an example. There are lots of different things that people discuss. My point in that is that it's not like a switch you flip one day there's generally a story of your life. Things were good things were not good. These things happen. These were the triggers, and we dig really deep like some of my clients or guests cry And my goal isn't to make people cry, my goal is to hold space for my guests so that they feel comfortable digging into their story that deep. And I told her if I could find your information online, that's not what we're talking about today. If you're not willing to dive deeper, and I get that some people aren't, then you're you're on the right podcast, I want to discuss it in the way you have not discussed it before. And I do that because I want people to feel less alone in their struggle. And just like in the book, where I had that hindsight, at the end of every chapter, I want them to discuss who, what when, where, how they got through, or so getting through those traumas and struggles, because I want to build a toolbox for people listening. So I want you to feel less alone, I want you to build a toolbox. And it's interesting, because meditation is a great example. Michelle, you could be on my show. And you could say meditation is what really helped me. And I'm in the audience like, Yeah, I've heard this 5000

be there done. That didn't work. What's next.

Except I felt that way until somebody told me about guided meditation and talk to me have talked about it in a way that I hadn't heard it expressed before. And all of a sudden, something that was never an option for me, became something that maybe would work for me. So regardless of what it is that helps people get through it, I think it's really important to share it because it's their story. And because we don't know if, for example, when my daughter was in kindergarten, my daughter who's 11 Now, I spent, I can't even count the amount of time I spent helping her learn to tie her shoes. One day, she came home and she said, Mom, I know how to tie my shoes now. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that's so great. I'm a genius. Finally, something clicked and she said, yeah, some kid on the playground showed me and I and he taught me how. And there's a there's a part of me that's like, you watch, do you not realize how much time I spent teaching you. But whatever that kid said and did and showed her on that playground, made tying her shoes click for her, it was the final thing that she needed, even though it's an all that time and talking about your struggle and talking about what helped can do that for other people. And so I set up the platform exactly like the book. And people kind of get to tell their story in an hour. So in a way, like if you want to transcribe your podcast, you may be are writing a book and an hour, but it gives them it is a way to accomplish what I wanted to originally was help people get their story out through the writing of the book in a different way. And, you know, I get off of a podcast interview and I'll go out into the living room and my husband will say, How did it go. And now it's a joke cuz every time I'm like, that was my favorite podcast interview I've ever done. And these are the these people have been we share deep stuff they've become my friends, I'm I am close with them more over time. A lot of them have been on the show more than once they many of them have asked to be on the show a subsequent time. I get great feedback on it. When I worked with you for the podcast at the beginning of the year, you taught me how to find stats. I can't remember the website though. But listen notes. It is listen notes. Okay. And that was super exciting, because I was four years in at that point. And I found out I was in the top 5%. And that that is a amazing accomplishment. It's wonderful, then you realize that there's how many podcasts are in the world. And that

7 million right now isn't that crazy? As we're recording this right now. It's crazy. It is

crazy. And it's still though I did it because I started the podcast the same for the same reason I wrote a book I wanted to make a difference in the lives of other people. I knew what helped me get through my traumas, what things helped me, I dug real deep on that I've used several different modalities of therapy and the modality that worked the best for me, I got licensed in and all of the coaches and another thing that I realized within six months of starting the podcast was that every coach is their own avatar. When you hire a coach in business, they say, you know, write out your avatar, my avatar is me 17 years ago, it was me. And my lowest point was me when I needed help. And the goal was coaches is to make it faster, easier and more supported for other people going through similar struggles. And that was so fantastic to learn. I wanted I wanted to do with the books make a difference in the life of someone else. Just start with one in that one. And then in that one, and with a podcast. I knew that I was only one story. And that was wonderful that I got it out. But there are billions of other stories on this planet that are equally as wonderful and that people can relate to better than mine, possibly. And I had only I've been through a lot but I've only been through certain struggles. So when people come on and talk about an eating disorder, which I've never had experience or a suicide attempt, which I've never experienced. What's wonderful about that is that it's the perspective of the person. And it's a completely different struggle. I can't share information on that from a personal point of view. And so getting to know my podcast guests and becoming friends with them, and you know, I'll go down my Instagram feed and my husband's like, do you even know who is in Facebook? Or who is in Instagram? And when I go down, I'm like, Oh, that was a podcast as oh my gosh, I love her. Oh, he was great, you know? And it's really kind of opened up. How I've connected with people.

Mm hmm. Yeah, there's so many amazing stories, and you're really giving them a voice with your show, right? You're allowing them to share their message. And oh, my gosh, think of the amount of people that whose lives you've touched or changed because of allowing them to share their story, and allowing them the space and the microphone to do so. And each person who's listening is gonna resonate with a different story in a different way. And oh, wow, I can exist like, imagine have you? Have you had any feedback? Or have you heard some stories from some of your guests that have had people reach out to them? Or have you had people reach out to you and just say, like, wow, like, this made a big difference? Thank you.

Oh, yeah. And those are your favorites. When I tell people, I think in my outro, you know, the very end of the podcast, like, you're not alone in your struggle, please reach out to me, I also have a podcast resource page, that will take some time because like you said, I'm 300 episodes in but the goal is to share the person's picture, the link to their the YouTube video that when they were on all of their social media links, so that if there's a podcast episode that resonated with you, you can easily find them, although I have all of their information. And but you want to make it brainless and easy for people to find this information and get in touch with people. And as much as you know, I would love to have more coaching clients. And I'm always open for that. And you want to even changing the podcast to monetize it, there's all these different ways that bring in income and income is how we all pay our bills. If there's someone in the audience that resonates with the guests that I have on, and that is a person that they want to hire, I would rather have them hire someone and get help that they need and the connection that they need, then be with the wrong person. So I really want people to connect, and it's my favorite. It is my favorite when people connect with me after the podcast.

Yeah, I love that. I think that's so cool. Now tell us about the original name of your podcast is the naked podcast. So tell us a little bit about that story.

Actually, the first name for my podcast was Jen Taylor, hashtag Rerouting. So it was only it was the first couple of months. And the reason why is that it felt like in my story, and everybody's story, I was in the car with my best friend and I was driving or somewhere and I had GPS on and the GPS told me to turn left, and I did and it said rerouting and it was telling me to do a u turn. I'm like seriously like, this is the story of my life, right? Everything's Rerouting. You think you're going the right way? You got it all together? And then No, you'll find out you need to reroute. And that really is a huge part of how I felt in growing up in my journey and writing the book. Just like you're really trying to do your best job. And to get things right and to do things well and realize no, gotta do something happened with my blog just last week, or I was like, Oh, my gosh, kidding me. So where are you just need to reroute. You just have to change gears. A few months later, my husband walked in. And this is a real story. It this is this is exactly how it happened. And he talked to me, I made a joke about how I wanted a job that I didn't have to wear pants. years before this, and why can I have a job where I can't wear pants. And one day he walked in and I was recording and you know, you're always in like a little section of your room or a little office or their closet. And so he could walk in and out of the room. But no one could see that he was walking in and out of the room. And he walked in the room. And he looked at me and walk back out and I was not wearing pants. Like I did not have pants on. I was in my underwear and a nice shirt. And afterwards he's like, so when you said you wanted a job where you didn't? Like, you literally don't want to wear pants and I said no one can see me. No one can see me from the armpits down. I mean, look, you know, we can't, I could have no clothes on and nobody would know. And he's like, so you'd be the naked podcaster and I just went, yeah. But I'm like, wow, that's a really great name. And it's a great gimmick and sex sells and all of that stuff, which is not at all why I picked the name. I love I super love a play on words. And if it's a little edgy, I really super love a play on words. My goal though wasn't to be to use sex to sell for this. Although I mean People notice it because it says the word naked in it. If you read the next line, it says, baring it all. Yeah. So I mean, like we're and I guess even then maybe you don't realize it. But it says, baring it all spiritually and emotionally is my tagline. And so, the podcast is four and a half years old, and I changed the name. I changed him a few months later, I'm like, Yeah, because I, I would only have done it if it really, really fit the podcast so well and better than Rerouting. And it did. It was really such a great fit. Part of that is my dorky personality and not wearing and wanting to wear pants for a job. And part of that was that it was such a funny experience with my husband. And it was such an organic way that the name came up. And also, I mean, if I took my shirt off right now, you would have no idea what I was doing. I could be wearing a tank top, like my hair covers everything. And you would have no idea right? So for one year, I went topless. And actually, I wore pants most the time and just had my shirt off. But I did. I did wear like a banjo. Like I so it was still a play on words. And maybe it's something about me if I wasn't being 100% authentic, I felt like it was a waste of my time. And if I've got socks on and pants on and a banjo bra on, I'm not being naked, I'm just showing you my shoulders so that it appears that way. And I stopped, I stopped doing it because at that point, it was fun. I'm not gonna lie, it was super fun. Um, it was super fun. And I had a couple guests show up naked also. And that was unlike men, men think it's so risky, they're showing up naked on like, a on the beach, you have your shirt off. This is, um, am I but I felt like there was more attention on that than there was on anything else. And it was actually detracting from the message that I was giving. And my message has always been super, super serious. And although I tend to be very sarcastic and playful and edgy, and personality, that wasn't what I was bringing to the table for my podcast. So I put my shirt back on. The other thing that happened was, I've been a Christian my whole life, there's that's never change, I might not have always been

very outward in my expression, in saying, and a big part of that was a past situation, I left a cult. And there was a lot of trauma and baggage because of that. So I was very, I have been very careful about protecting that part of me that has been one of the most important and intimate things about myself my personality emotionally. The other reason was because I have kids and I, I wanted to kind of respect and raise them in a way where they were open to lots of options. There's not really a justification, I wasn't very forward about being a Christian to people because I wasn't very forward. And that probably had a lot to do with fear of my own. And I hit the point where that change, and a couple things happened. One, a friend of mine, who called herself my best friend to everybody else, found out I was Christian and absolutely came on glued on, like yelling at me. And I thought if this person has known me for three years is surprised or upset by the fact that I'm a Christian, I am not being a good friend, I think you have to run this balance on social media. And that was one of the other reasons I'm quiet. I would not push my politics or religion on anyone in a way that made them feel like they were wrong, or they needed a change, or they were stupid. And since the pandemic started, we've seen an awful lot of that division because of a difference in how we think or feel about something. I feel very strongly that we can have extremely opposing viewpoints and agree to disagree and have really exceptional conversations. when that does happen. It doesn't happen and it becomes I mean it's it's it's created riots trade and division in huge ways and families, that it's not worth it. Prior to the pandemic. We're now it's super easy for me to point that out. And everybody's like, yes, it's created so much vision have different, right. But before that, my goal was just to do my thing. I don't talk about politics, either on my on my social media platforms and stuff, because I think it's a personal decision. And it shouldn't be based. You shouldn't base how well you like me on who I voted for for President. Right. We agree to disagree. Although you're in Canada, so that's a different conversation.

Still. Yeah, it's still the same thing over here, though. No, I think so.

Yeah, it's division. And I didn't want to talk about being a Christian ever in a way that divided people. However, when that conversation happened with somebody who said she was my best friend, I realized that I was going too far the opposite way. And then I could be really forward about who I was without creating any static. And if it made it so that people, she and I are not friends anymore. We haven't spoken in a long time. And if that's going to happen, then I would rather have friends that are true friends, what do I tell my kids? What have you told kids, be your genuine self so that when people like you, they genuinely like you. Because if you're being a fake version of yourself, if you're not presenting yourself, truly, you'll never know if people really like you for who you are, because you're not being who you are. I think that there's a really big balance in that without being like a, like a religious zealot, which I'm not, but sharing my beliefs and knowing that even even within Christianity, someone invited me to go to a talk. And when I looked at it, it's interesting, I'm gonna say it because it happened to me the other day, I wasn't the right kind of Christian, for this Christian, right. And when someone invited me, it wasn't the same type of Christianity that I practice. And I said, you know, that's a prosperity gospel. And I'm really happy you found someplace that you like to go, that's not the direction I'm gonna go in. It's not what I believe in. And so I'm going to turn this down. So even when you say, Here I am, I'm a Christian. So obviously, I'm not going to take my shirt off on my podcast, which I put my shirt back on before that, but still, even within that I'm not the right kind of Christian. For some people, this isn't the right kind of podcasts, they preferred it when I had my shirt off, they thought it was gimmicky when I had my shirt off. I mean, there are gonna be people that disagree that don't align with you in everything that you do.

And I think that I think the bottom line though, here is that when you when you get aligned with yourself, and that authentic, real voice and real you, then that's when things start to change. And that's when the right people start to come in. And it doesn't matter, you know, because you you're being true to you, your voice is coming out I think I think that's crazy about podcasting, right, that you cannot, you can only not share your whole self for so long. And then eventually you have to because it's just part of the process, you can like podcasting and things, one of the forces you to be super authentic, which is great. It is

great. And the other thing is that I'm asking my guests to dig super, super deep and reveal parts of them they don't share. And a person who called herself my best friend didn't know that I was Christian, not enough that it ever created an issue. And it shouldn't have created an issue. I wasn't different. In that five minutes. Nothing about me changed in that five minutes, except that she knew something. So if I'm asking my guests to be their authentic self, and my goal wasn't to not be my authentic self, it was to ride that line of not being passive in who I am, but also not being so outspoken that, you know, it turned people off. And maybe it did turn people off. And you know, you hit a point where you're like, Well, I am who I am. So you're not

is so funny, generous. We're as we're talking here, you're talking about Christianity. And there's something funny happening with our resume right now that for those of you that are listening, I just want to share what's happening. And Jen, I don't even know if you can see it happening either. But like every time you say something good, the thumbs up reaction unzoom pops up and gives you a thumbs up. And it's not me doing it. And it's really funny, because I think that's like, I think that's like Spirit giving you like a thumbs up, Jen. And I just have to say, I know our audience will appreciate that. But it really literally Zoom is doing its own thumbs up reaction to

well, I'm I'm loving zoom right now. So that's

very appreciative of your being and then taking your message today

is important. And you know, October 19, which was yesterday when we're recording, this was the 10 year anniversary of my blog. And a year ago, just over a year ago. I mean, I at that point, I had almost nine years, I had 960 Something, blog posts, and I decided I had a coach that told me you know, you need to go through all of those. And I thought it was going to be this horribly arduous, terrible task. I really dug my feet and I didn't want to do it. When I finally started doing it. It was so cathartic. It was a diary of my life. And I actually deleted almost 600 posts because links were broken. And you don't start out being a great writer. I did. I did keep my first couple posts that I ever posted. Yeah. And like yesterday, because it was my 10 year I found the first picture I ever posted and the first vlog. It was awesome. I mean, it was great. Just saying that, you know, sometimes it's good to go through all of that content and look at it. And also when I looked at it, I realized I gone through a divorce in that time. And the only thing I wrote about was that life was a little more stressful and I was moving That was a really huge lesson to me and how not authentic I was being or not forward. And divorce is a little bit different because there was another party involved. And generally with me, there were kids involved. And you have to write a very fine line of telling a story that is one sided, where that other person, I mean, essentially, it's defamation of character, if I'm saying something bad about them, and they don't have a chance to defend themselves. And so, I mean, still, there are so many topics where I feel like it's so hard to ride the line of doing what is ethical, which is not talking about what a jerk your ex husband is, or whatever you want to say, even if it was even if it was 100%. True. And not defaming anyone's character and being true to yourself and, and sending out that information. So, my I have a son that in August, five years ago, went missing. He was missing for four years, it was August 6, he went missing. And August 3, four years later, they connected his remains with the DNA. So a year ago, they found my son's remains, and losing a child is massive. It's massive. And I just wrote about it and did a video, but I wrote about it. And holy cow, did people want to hear about that. So I did a video based on that blog post. And it was one of the hardest things that I've written about, I actually had some audio clips, voice messages, he left his sister, my daughter, because you know, I've been foster care and adoption, and I didn't hear them until I was actually I listened to them live while I was recording myself. And I sobbed. And I don't think I didn't say anything about that. Nobody knows that. That is the first time I heard this voice recordings while I was doing it. But digging in and being raw is important to me. And that is an ongoing story. And I'm not going to ask anyone to do it unless I'm doing it. And look, I did it 150% With my book. I haven't done it 100% In every area of my life, and it was time to make that change. So I did and I had put, you know, I put my shirt back on. So Christianity wasn't an issue with that. And then we when we when I hired you and your company, I talked about naming it a little bit differently and like rerouting, we need to add a crossroads for the naked podcaster. And it's the same. It's that same theme that I've had for over four and a half years right now that things change. And often we are legitimately we can feel and see ourselves standing at this crossroads. Like we're standing right there. And we have to make a decision sometimes pretty quickly. Which way we're going to go Yeah, knowing that you're not going to turn back after that things are divorces that way. Standing up for yourself is that way, a lot of the trauma that my guests have shared with me they were at some crossroads in their lives where something's got to give, and they've got to change direction. They're rerouting their lives. And it's cute, and it's heavy. And it's scary.

Yeah. And do you ever see like, do you ever at this, it's huge that your guests feel so safe with you to reveal that on their podcast, like you say the other type of things they don't never share? Have you ever? How do you prepare them for that? Or what's, you know, how do you get them to go so deep and do better at all?

That's an amazing question. And I wish I had the perfect answer. I let them know in like the literature I send them. So when they sign up to be a guest. It says this is what I'm expecting. I'm expecting you to bear it all. Like we're, we're going to go deep. And then in their confirmation, it reminds them of that a lot of people don't read that stuff. So when, as you probably know, when I get on with him in the very beginning, I call it pre gaming, right? We sit down and we talk like this is how it's gonna go. This is the order of things. It's explicit. And it's explicit, because the I've had two podcasts in four and a half years that have been the hardest one is my daughter who's now 23 came on. I knew she had had suicide attempts. I didn't know that she had more than one. And I didn't know what saved her the final time, which I'm very sure she would have been successful. And that was a really hard thing to learn live on video about my own daughter. The other one was a woman who is so brave, and she talked about how her biological father raped her from the age of nine to the age of 21. And although I was molested by my stepfather, there is nothing there is nothing in the world that compares to it's the only time on my podcast that I've cried. Was was this woman. So I'm not sure except that I tell them my job is to hold space for you. to ask the questions, to direct you in a different way if I need to. And for you to feel comfortable being open, my only job in that hour is to hold space for them, meet them where they're at. And ask them the questions that I want to know. And to help facilitate them opening up. I feel overwhelmingly grateful that people who have never met me before that, I don't know that a lot of the times my guests don't know about me personally, they know that they're on a podcast, or that they want to be on my podcasts are they've been referred to, you know, they know minimal about me, they don't know about my family, or minimalism, or that I'm a runner, they don't know anything about me personally. And yet, they come on and share things that are so intimate and deep, I don't have words to express that gratitude. And I don't know what I do to facilitate that, except that whatever I'm doing allows them to feel that way. And there is no bigger compliment in the world to me than that. I think also, just like, you know, my first blog posts weren't that great. And I could delete them without even thinking about it. No sadness there. I have become a better podcast. Interviewer as the time has gone on, I'm sure I have. I know that the best thing that I've ever heard is when a guest tells me that they've shared things that they've never shared before. Or that I got them to talk about things that they hadn't thought about in so many years, they were just stunned by it. And I do send a follow up email, I send an email 48 hours after the podcast to say, I know we talked about some heavy stuff. And if there's anything you need, for me, I'm an NLP practitioner. So I can work with them on traumas, and limiting beliefs in a way where they don't have to talk about it specifically. And I have always been open that if there is anything that was triggered, if there's anything that's difficult for them, I'm happy to be here for them. So I don't know how or why people are willing to, but I'm intensely grateful that they are.

Wow. And that makes such an incredible show that you have a I know, I think you should be really proud of it's it's an incredible show, Jen and you just need to face that you hope for people and the stories that come out of there are changing lives and just wanted to congratulate you on on that. It's it's not something that everyone can do. And you're definitely you're definitely changing lives with it.

Thank you. i That's it's just one make a difference. That one. I think that's been my goal. From when I was like a 21 year old kid and had my first baby and started doing foster care a couple years later. Like if you can really just think about how can I make a difference in the life of one today? Even if it's the person at the drive thru the barista? You know, and that's it. And if that if a compound interest is one of my favorite theories, if that takes over and creates compound interest, and that's the best thing you could ever do.

Yeah, absolutely. And I know before I let you go, I do want to touch on your recording this episode today, from your RV where you and your family are jumping into to live in in the next little while. And that speaks of my heart. I did that I did five months with my family in our RV. It was incredible. Such a great family bonding time. So just wanted to share with our audience that that's what your new adventure is. And maybe you can share that experience with your family is so cool. So tell us a little bit about that what you're up to.

We became minimalist, Dane and I became minimalist seven years ago. Two things happen. Within a week one a friend came over to my house and she's like, Wow, you got a lot of stuff, which is not I wanted people to feel when they walked into my house. And Dane had Sundays and Wednesdays off so he would clean the house on his Wednesday off when I was working corporate. And he said, Jen, I don't know how to clean house anymore. Like there's just we were just overwhelmed. We had blended families. A year earlier. We had 12 kids living at home. He moved into my house we had never gotten rid of anything it was just overwhelming and you don't realize that when until you pull everything out of a closet that you're a Loki hoarder. And you know, I would have never said that about myself. However, that's what it felt like. And so I knew I am compulsively organized. I'm very organized. So I knew that wasn't the answer. And we started minimalism. I went down some Google rabbit hole that got me on this tangent seven years ago and we ended up in three months getting rid of about 80% of what we own, which sounds impossible. And let me tell you, it is not it is not impossible to get rid of 80% of what you own and feel lighter and better and happier in your home. After that as kids started moving out of our house because We have 18 kids. And we are 12. At home at home at the time, as kids moved out, we give them the option, you can either take all of your furniture with you or we're donating it. And I am legitimately putting it on the sidewalk the day you move out not because like, I'm not sure I'm not trying to kick you out, I just like, I wanna I want I'm gonna sit and hold it here for a month and cry. And because you move down and it's ridiculous, right? I do not have empty nest syndrome. I wanted to free up more bedroom space for the kids that were at home. And so we legitimately, literally the day that they moved out anything that didn't take with them. We had the donate pile, the trash pile, and that you're taking it with you out of our house pile. And also, as time went on, we we've rented homes for the last, I think, 15 years, 16 years, we've rented homes. And the reason why is because we had such a big family, the house that we wanted to live in, at the end of our journey was not the house we would have bought at the beginning of our journey. So we have downsized. We've lived in four houses in the last eight years, and every time we've downsized. And so we got down to I know I we do fi 1000 square feet we're in right now. And I, I there's a couple things that happened because one day Jane and I looked at each other and he said why are we moving into an RV. I think something happened in my process of downsizing and minimalism that like this was the pinnacle of minimalism, right. And it just became a goal you start. If you've ever bought a car, you bought a jeep, right. And all of a sudden you buy this Jeep and you see that you see Jeeps everywhere, there aren't more jeeps, you just now you're aware that there are Jeeps out there. And the same thing happened with minimalism with people who live full time in a school in RV, a tiny house, a van, a boss at whatever. And we started following this. And I just felt like I wanted to downsize enough. And having moved so much in my entire life. I've moved so many times in my life. And just four times in the last eight years. I wanted to know that if I had to move again, I could take it with me. So there was something about my personality, where one living in an RV was the pinnacle of our minimalism journey. I didn't want to go to less than that. But I wanted to get there. And the other part of that was feeling like I don't have roots anywhere. And that's kind of part of just my 50, almost 51 years of living is that I think I've moved around so much. I don't feel like I have roots and having my home, be something that's portable, made me feel like no matter what I did or where I went, I would have roots, I would take that with me. So we bought a 31 foot class c RV in January of 2021. I was going to renovate it, it was going to be my first renovation, because I really love to do that. And I'm pretty handy. And I exposed so much water damage. It actually had to be remediated. So we took it. We took it to professionals, and that was a lot of money. A lot of money, a half of the money we've put into this RV has been for it to be ripped out remediated and rebuilt. The good news about that is that there's no water damage, there's no mold, the RV is structurally sound, and they did the bulk all the heavy lifting of the renovation. So this is the first time I've been on a meeting or in a podcast in the RV is today. I listen

to my schedule, and the only meeting I have had was with you and I'm like oh my gosh, I can take my iPad there and do a meeting because I really wanted to come our daughter are you we have one at home now she's in sixth grade, we homeschool. So her homeschool was portable. And I've spent four hours getting all kinds of little curtains fun and all kinds of little things done. We're planning on moving in and about a month permanently. And I mean, basically all we have to do is bring our mattress and our clothes and we could be in it now. It's that it's that far done. Is that close to being done. But it's been really fun. I actually, you know, fantasize about moving into this and doing another RV renovation. And it could be another one for us. Because you learned so much when you do it you realize in the process what you would change? Yeah. You think you think you're going to get it all together? You know, I'm going to do all this research and I'm going to get the perfect RV even though people tell you that's not going to happen and it doesn't happen. Or renovating and flipping them because I just am so passionate about doing it and giving people Alternative Living in a pandemic, we've we've seen such a shift of people being afraid of losing their jobs of not finding work, have the prices of housing going up exponentially and renting and it's just becoming more and more difficult and wanting to have a little bit more autonomy moving to a different state. And so I think it's exciting. So yes, you are my thing. It's like

you know, this is like people's chance to look prospectively at their life right now. Like and like, oh my gosh, I'm not happy with what we're doing. Now let's see something I've been thinking about for years. Let's not take the opportunity to do that. And, you know, so cool. So I'm so excited for you guys to hear all about your trip on all about your travels, as you move your way through through the continent, in your RV, and get to visit all your kids in various states and grandkids and all that fun stuff. And I just want to share with our audience, Janice, before I let you go, that we're to find out more information about Jen, if something resonated with you today, Jen said, please connect with her. It's mom of eighteen.com and go check out her website, you can see all her podcasts on there as well. And it's at a crossroads with a naked podcaster. So make sure you check out her podcast go leave her an amazing review. She's out there changing so many lives, and go and listen, because chances are one of her guests will change your life too. So thank you so much, Jen for spending this time with us behind the mic today. And any last words before we let you go?

Wow. Um, yeah, if you think you can, if you think you can't do it, you can just do it. And your story's good enough?