Behind The Mic: Brand A Peel with Shannon Peel

This is Amplifyou the podcast about you discovering your message and broadcasting it to the world. If you're a coach, author or speaker, you'll want to tune in. If you're looking for the best return on your time investment to get your message out to the world in a bigger way. We're giving you full access behind the scenes look of how we're running our podcasts, how our clients have found success, and what you can do to launch your podcast today. The world needs your message. I'm Michelle Abraham, the host join my family as we unleash your unique genius and find the connections you need to launch your venture today. Join us and let's get amplified.

Hello, hello amplify your family Michelle Abraham your host here today. And I am so excited. As I have a great guest for you today we're diving into behind the mic. We have a great podcasts are with you her name is Shannon Peel. Let me say hi to Shannon first before I tell you more about her Haitian how're you doing?

Good. How are you?

I am so good. Well, I'm super glad you're here we've met a few times that are connecting collaborate calls. You piqued my interest with what you do. And I love what you're all about. So first of all, let's just share with our audience, you have a podcast called Brand appeal, which is so cool, because your last name is PLP E L. And the brand appeal is brand with the letter A and then peel as in your last name, which I love it because it's got double meanings. So wanted to share that with our audience first, but then a little bit more about you as well. Shannon is a brand's storyteller who helps people discover what they want to be known for, and then craft their stories to connect with those around them. And what I really appreciate is that she's written tons of novels, I understand there's a new one that just happened this weekend. So we're gonna dive into that in a few minutes. With Shannon, it really explores how she can help clients to become known in the marketplace by using these stories, and then saw people ruining their reputation, their brand reputation by telling the wrong story, or the right story wrong. And I can totally relate to that. Because I've been on stages, sharing my stories, and then had a big like no sales at the end of it and is like what did something I said was not right. So I can definitely relate to that. And I am so glad you're here shining. So welcome to the podcast, and let's dive in.

Well, thanks for having me here. I'm literally looking forward to this. This is great.

Yes, I'm so glad we finally got our schedules aligned. And you could be here. And let's dive into why you started your podcast. So what is it about Brian? I love the name. By the way, as I mentioned, when I was introducing you, I think very clever. Why brand appeal podcast?

Well, my son, my son encouraged me to do it. He said, you know, Mom, we He's amazing. He's so smart. But we were talking and one day he goes, You know what, mommy should have a podcast, you know so much, you're so interesting, you should just have a podcast. And I thought about it. And I tried to do one before. And it really kind of fell flat. And the, you know, when I started doing it through zoom, that became a different entity. Before it was always trying to get people to come, you had to find the right people and get them to come to the studio. If you weren't getting the good stories, because it was just whoever you could get in locally in this way was zoom, I'm able to talk to some pretty interesting people that have done some amazing things. And thank God, I don't research my guests ahead of time. I know you should. But I'm glad I don't. Because when I'm talking to them, and they tell me who they are and what they've done. If I'd known that ahead of time, I probably would have called them up and said um, yeah, I'm not really big enough or good enough to be on my show. And it's not about that it's like totally my own insecurities and my own issues. thinking, oh, you know, I'm not gonna have a big enough audience or I'm not important enough to have this person on my show. So you know, it is really great the way that I do it I learn about my my guests paws my audience learns about my guests. And you know, when I found out that afterwards that I was interviewing this guy, and he'd been a editor of The Wall Street Journal for 10 years, I just went that's pretty. And I've had lots of them lots and lots of those moments where I'm like, Oh, my God, you've done what you are who? You know, I didn't know that. That's who you were. And it's pretty impressive. I really like I really enjoy talking to the people that I talk to you because I you know, it's about drawing their stories hope and I love stories, obviously. But it really is about connecting with them. I'm through this thing called a screen. Oh,

what do we do before life of zoom? Right? Like I remember, it's so complicated. It was Skype and like trying to do this like dial up thing. And I remember my mentor in podcasting, James Martello is tell a story where he's like shared where he was like using a phone with a microphone to the mouth of the phone recorder sounded terrible. Exactly. Funny enough, though, he used to sell those episodes of the affiliate of his affiliate podcast for $27 a month on a monthly reoccurring subscription. And it well, it was. So this podcast interview, how crazy is that?

It is crazy. That is crazy. But I gotta tell you, the first time I interacted with this type of technology, talking to people face to face through the screen, I was 17 years old. And now you know how old I really am. So I'm gonna let that sink in a little bit. Because we're talking, what, 30 years 2030 years. I had to go to the, my vice principal, the high school had to drive me to Kelowna to go to the BC tell office than to sit on their board. And I thought it was amazing. Because here I was in Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada, looking on a screen talking to these guys from IBM in Palo Alto, California. And they were asking me questions about what I thought of their version of the internet was just me and them in the room. And it was like, wow, this is like Star Trek. Amazing. It's going to connect us. And now look, Wow, that's incredible. It does connect us. But a lot of ways. When we talk this way, and give presentations this way, you can really feel disconnected, instead of connected.

It reminds me of like an episode of CSI or something where the boss even seen on the big screen and gives them their orders for this, this mission or this job. Just taking you back to like sitting in Kelowna, in that boardroom or mindset. Or why is he at that show? It is interesting. Just recently, I've connected with a lot of people I've met on zoom over the last couple of years in person, and events. And there's so many surprising things that have happened, like one's way taller, and then the other was way shorter. And it's just like, oh my god, it's like, there's so much interesting things that happen outside of this box that we're in talking to each other. Although we feel like we know each other. It's just so nice to see people again, and like real skin person to person interactions. Well,

I'm gonna ask you this, when you meet them in the real world compared to meeting them on Zoom like this? Is there a difference in the feeling and the emotion of the connection that you're making? In real life? Compared to virtually?

It's a really good question. I haven't, I felt like there's a closer connection in person when we meet in person, but I feel like it like it, like amplifies the connection we had online. Once we meet in person, like it just takes it to the next level. But I feel like like, I still feel like we've connected in a similar kind of way. Yeah, I don't know if that answers your question. Kind of it does.

It does. I find that because when we're online on Zoom like this, we usually come into these meetings with a purpose with an agenda with the or work on we're going to be working this is our workout, we've got a purpose, we've only got this hour and that's all it's gonna be so we kind of stay on task. versus more we're we're networking with the real world or we meet people in the real world. We go off on that tangent in the other tangent and it's a lot more casual, a lot more organic. Yeah, screen like this.

It's a three person like the the events typing, going to in person, I am virtually right versus like a 3d event in person. It's the conversations between the speakers in the bathroom lineups at dinner or lunch that like really gel those Converse those relationships, I think and exactly what you're saying there. Like, that's what's missing from zoom.

Yeah, and I think it's a big piece that's missing from remote work. I've always been I mean, I've been a remote worker for for years before even you know, even when I was employed, I worked. I worked in sales and sales you get in your car, you drive around and office and you do miss something. You miss out on opportunities you miss out on building really close friendships with the people that you work with. When you are the one that's always out in the field,

the cooler talking with

play now I know that I've taken this way off of podcasting. So did you want to bring this back to podcasting or

diving actually right where you are saying it's perfect asking you you know from you Your perspective of brands in this like whole merge on to zoom in onto line, what are some things like from a brand storyteller perspective that we should be really aware of, of being on this kind of technology all the time and our brands represented on the social media and everything versus to like, just from a static website?

Well, one of the things I noticed right away with Zoom, was people started looking casual. Mm hmm. Yeah. They no longer looked professional, they no longer bothered to be. I don't know if it's my age. But you know, if you show up in a in a T shirt with a cap on unshaven or in the girl's case, whether in a ponytail and a cap on and you know, t shirt. The professionalism isn't there, it's like, especially if you look like he just rolled out of bed. And yes, I have looked like that time to time. But that doesn't mean that you know, so if you It depends on the image that you want. So if you want your brand to be professional, and you want to be seen as a professional in business, you still have to show up on the screen looking professional. And I try to wear the same thing, pretty much all the time is black, this black shirt, a black shirt underneath the time I put on the green shirt or a red shirt underneath. But I try to keep it like like a uniform, I guess. Right. And I wear the black because I'm a creative. And I feel that that's kind of like you know, the creative thing to do. The only thing I'm missing is a French hat, you know, the gray, the black Baray and the in the turtleneck black. So, you know, it's about what you want to portray to the world, you still have to have that image, then when you're connecting with people online, there's certain things that we need in order to connect, we need to be able to have eye contact. So unfortunately, the camera is here, and you're here. Right? So if I look at you is we don't have all of a sudden, we don't have that eye contact

me. I'm always looking at the person on the screen and ever looking out. And I'm

always looking at the camera because I know that the person is looking at me on the screen and make sure that they feel that I'm paying attention to their story. And as the podcaster. When I'm asking questions, I don't come in with a canned set of questions either. I have one question. I ask it every time. It's like what do you want to be known for? And then from there, I just let the conversation go. And I listen, and try to find new questions to ask from what they're saying to dive deeper into those concepts around brand storytelling to help my audience find ideas and actionable items that they can go and do to get noticed in the marketplace. So that's my goal. Yeah, but the only way I can do that is by enabling the person I'm talking to, to feel like they're being listened to. Like, okay, so if you're talking to somebody, and all of a sudden, you see their eyes kind of glaze over or they're like looking around, or maybe you're on the phone with them, and you can tell that they're not really paying attention, because their voice is kind of like Uh huh, yeah. And you tell them some stupid thing. Like I just jumped off it. I just jumped off the cliff. And you're like, yeah, oh, that's great. Feels like here's someone is not listening to you. Do you? Do you want to open up and continue to arcane and telling your story Oh,

I shut down completely. And I'm sure a lot of other people do the same. Okay, not being heard next.

So you have to do things that enable your audience, the person that you're interviewing, to feel that you're listening, so you have to look at them. So if you can, if you really need to look at their eyes, get a camera that plugs in and put the camera in front of the screen, close to where they view where their eyes are a lot of times a push the the the zoom, the cares up to the camera, so at least it looks I can kind of see where there they are. But you can either get the one and then you got the camera here, you're looking at the camera, but you're also looking at them behind. That's a really great way

you can stream the screen over so that the person who's talking is underneath the camera instead of to the side. So like you're not talking like this. The worst is like when you're doing a presentation online and you see those little boxes on the side and you're looking at the little box.

Exactly, exactly. Because

all the time like oh, what did we do?

Yeah, they and it looks like you're not paying attention. It looks like you're talking to someone else in the room. And it's really important that you connect and that connection comes from our eyes. The other thing that's really important is you have to talk with your body or listen with your body. Sorry not talk with your body. Listen with your So you're listening with your eyes, you're listening with your body. So you have to lean in, you lean into the camera, and you make sure that your hands are seen, so that they know you're not typing, they know that you're not clicking around, you're not playing a video game while they're talking. When you're giving a presentation, as I mean, lots of leaders out there, lots of managers out there right now have to get presentations on these zoom calls. And they can see that their people are not paying attention. You know, we are, that's for sure. We think that because we're looking at the screen, that the person talking and thinks that we're working, but they can tell that you're looking that you're doing something else, because your eyes are going all over the place, you're actually going here, while your Facebook feed is going, they can tell that you're not really paying attention to what they're saying. So if you want to seem like okay, I'm paying attention, you need to lean forward, you need to make sure that they can get your hands on have to be like you're all the time but you know, every once in a while, bring your hands up, or do what I do, I talk with my hands a bit. It's that lean and we lean in it's we're listening to a lot of times like this, you know, because that's like, the thinker you think or let go. And, you know, it looks like you're interested in what they're talking about. Now, maybe you're thinking about 50,000 Other things, but at least you look interested. So they open up and when they open up, they start telling more of the story. And it's your job as the podcast host just to hold that space. But the other thing is you got to learn how to listen with your mind. I don't know about you, Michelle, but I my mind used to go my my my mind goes in my alignment. But I used to like you're listening. And your mind is thinking about 50,000 Other things, one out three different rabbit holes. And you're seeing what tomorrow yesterday, the thing that you kids think that you got to do the other day, hey, we'll ever find a boyfriend, you know, those kinds of things going through your mind aren't really paying attention to the person that you're that you're interviewing? Well, you have to pay attention to what the what the person saying if you want to be able to ask them something to to open up what they're saying more. So when I decided to be an active listener, decades ago, I decided that I had to start paying better attention. Which is why when people go Why aren't you writing that down? As well remember, because I am paying attention, I will remember. But what it was is they would talk I would think so whatever word they said I would repeat it to myself in my mind in order to make sure that I was focused on what they were saying. And that sounds really crazy. Because you're you know, you say something, I think and you say something, I think kind of odd. But after a while, my brain created these pathways. And now I don't have to consciously think unless I'm listening to somebody and my mind goes off on one way or the other. And I catch it and then I go back and then I gotta go, Okay, I need to pay attention this person, but they say a word, I think. But that is a really good way of making sure that you were actively listening to that manager to that guest on your podcast, to your husband, to your wife to your children.

Present. Yeah. And being heard is like one of the essential core necessities in life being heard and seen. Right. So that validation, so important. I really appreciate what you're saying. Because I think I know I know I struggle this with a lot in my early years of podcasting is I was thinking what the next question was, what's what I'm going to ask next, especially for conversations like you and I do on our podcast where they're not scripted. They're not pre programmed saw the same question all the time. This fear of not remembering not knowing what to ask next prevented me from being a good listener to the to share the stories of Steve Hoelscher. It was like 10 years ago, I was interviewing him on a summit. And he just had this New York Times bestselling book. And he was like, very succinct media bias. He was speaking and I was nervous and asking questions for the summit. And I was so focused on the darn questions that I didn't hear what he said at all. And so it just made it just, I if you are struggling with that, I hear you and I'm sure Shannon hears you. We have probably been there. I have definitely been there myself. You understand, but Shannon's got some great solutions for that. Active listening.

Active listening. It's important and and if my ex husband had actually done it, I might know that's not true.

Right. Now, you were you're mentioned that you know, sometimes brands are ruining their reputation by sharing the wrong story or sharing the right story but the wrong way. So can you share what you mean by that and how can we how can we fix that solution?

Okay, well But, yeah, one example I bring up a lot is a recent one. If you are, if you're on LinkedIn, at some point in this this year, you probably saw the guy that posted a picture from crane, because he had to live a couple people off. He was trying to say that, hey, you know what, see CEOs feel bad when they have to lay people off. We're not all jerks. And what happened was complete backlash. People made fun of them and went viral for all the wrong reasons. New, you know, journalists were talking about it. And then he did it again, with his grandmother died. And people were once again waiting, you know, way to profit off your grandma's death, right? Just shoot, you know, he's not, you don't. I mean, he's loving it, because he's loving all the publicity. But but there's publicity that will, that's publicity. And then there's publicity that will get you work. Right. So he had a very important story to tell. But he told it the wrong way, because he told it from a place of victimization. He was the victim in the story. And he felt bad because he had to, he had made a bad decision and ran out of money and had to let these people go. And what it did was it elicited sympathy in the reader. And sympathy is not a good feeling. You know, somebody dies, you send them a condolence card, you know, you may take them a casserole, if they're, if they're really close to, you may hang out with them a bit. But after a certain period of time, you're like, Oh, I gotta go, I can't get over this. Like, I found that a lot of this was when I got divorced. A lot of it's like, okay, you know, move on, it's kind of free to move on. Because they didn't want to sit with me. And because I was telling the story wrong. I was telling it from a place of victimization. And it's really easy, because my whole story was that no, you know, but what it is, is, you don't want to elicit sympathy because we elicit sympathy, people show up, they, they, it's like they sacrifice to the fates, or the fate Gods say, look, and then they run away, and they say, Oh, I sacrifice that's not going to happen to me, because I was there and I helped that person. So their misfortune is going to stay with them. And it's not going to rub off on me. And we have a lot of that in this world. People who say things like, well, when one door closes, another door opens anything that that's kind of like get over yourself. Not listening, not listening to the person not trying to understand where the person is coming from, or I'm really sick and tired of listening to like, go away. That is a real sympathy reaction. If you're going to tell a story like that, you want to elicit empathy. Because when you when you're listening empathy, then people stop, and they sit with you. And then together, you find the solution to that problem. So this person who let people go as the CEO, first off, let people go second off, it's a company of about 10 to 50 people, it's a it's a medium, small to medium sized company. It's not a big corporation. So you know, the fact that he compared himself to these big CEOs, that really laying people off over zoom. Yeah, like, first off, position yourself right? In story. Next, understand that, hey, you still got a job, you're still the company, still your company? You've still got people working for you? Yeah, you're not the victim. You're the villain of the story.

The run rolls around,

got to get those roles, right. And then the way that it went like, oh, you know, I had to lay these people off. I made a bad decision. I've run out of money, I've had to lay them off. They're great people. And anyone would be any company would do wonderful having them on staff. And if there's anything I could do for them, please, I will, I will do it. Because I, I feel terrible that I've had to lay them off. And I hope that things will turn around and I can I can get them back. Because I would take them back in a heartbeat. You know, that is a totally different thing than I'm crying because I feel so bad. We want to talk about our vulnerable stories, the stories that are going to resonate with our audience, because that's what we're gonna do. We're gonna resonate with them, so that they can Oh, you know what, I unlike you because we we intrinsically trust that which is like us, and just trust that what is not, which is why we've had racism and gender inequality and lack of diversity. Right? We go with the people that are that we see ourselves and we choose the products that we that align with our values. And that, you know, I drink Coke, not Pepsi, why? Because I'm a traditionalist. Family is important to me, we're Pepsi is all looking for the young generation, that's about change. And you know, it just a different set of values and morals, we, that's why we have targeted marketing. targeted marketing tells us what the brand is about. But it also, if you see know that somebody isn't an Apple user, instead of a PC user, you can tell different things about them because of the message that's coming from the brand to that target audience. So that's what you got to think of when you when you're telling your stories? What details do I want to put in? What details do I leave out, because I want to make sure that I don't become vulnerable in my vulnerability, but I have to be vulnerable enough that people can resonate with what I'm saying. And I can start attracting a diverse group of people. Because you know, what, we may not look the same. But we have the same experiences. We both got divorced, we both had two kids, we both love swimming. You know, these are things that we don't know until you start telling your stories.

I guess.

So that's one of the like, one of the greatest things about podcasting is I have talked with these women from all over the world, growing up very in very different cultures and very different environments. But we connected because we shared stories. And those stories were like, Oh, I get it, there was an empathy there. Because we both understood each other because we both had maybe not the same experiences, but you know, similar enough, that we could sit with each other in that conversation and connect. And that's what you want to do with your brand story.

I love that. And it makes so much sense for podcasters to So are there any quick tips for podcasters when they're interviewing someone to keep those in mind? Like any quick tips for us, keeping our brand story in mind being bold, like there's this thing between like, being transparent, being vulnerable, being too vulnerable, vulnerable enough. So our audience likes us and attracts into us. But I've seen people recently just go away to off the charts with vulnerability and it leaves like that, like Bob taste, need to know about your porn addiction that as a brand does not make me want to work with you. Sorry.

Yeah, yeah, you know what, I really did struggle with this too, because actually, this is probably a great place to talk about this. Because when we when I was trying to figure out my brand, and who I was because it had to be a personal brand. At first, I had to really look at where I was coming from, and whether or not I was going to talk about my life. Because so I decided that yes, this part of my life was okay to talk about because I wanted to attract people who had hit bottom and had to rebuild. So, me talking about being on the verge of suicide, losing everything I was scared to lose. And then coming back from became my hero story. Because I wanted to attract heroes, to my brand. And I wanted to inspire other people who were struggling in that mire and in that pit that had been to find a way to get out of it by being stronger in the way that they talk. And using Hero language instead of victim language in order to tell their stories. That's a whole other podcast that's coming. That's a whole other program that's coming. It's probably gonna launch in January, but right now, you know, that one's more it's more of a personal story, not the business end of it. The business end of it I try you know, I do talk about that as well. I mean, that stories out there. But for the most part, I want people to you have to understand what is it that you want people to know about you? What is it that you want people to look at you and go okay, that is what they're known for. So, when it comes to my brand when it comes to my business brand, I want people to think she's a hard worker. She produces amazing content. That is mind blowing. She is intelligent, smart and Very interesting. So these are all things that I figured out at the beginning. And once I had those words, those concepts, then it was easy to figure out, okay, what stories am I going to tell? Which pieces am I going to tell which pieces am I not going to tell? Because they have to reflect this core message that I want to portray, you know, and trying to come across as a, you know, intelligent, strong woman, who also battles with depression and fear and suicide is my story. So, I do tell a very vulnerable story. But I tell it from a point of strength, that reflects back on my brand that says, You know what, I persevere, I work hard, I don't give up. And that is who I am. And that's what my brand is. So that's really what you're looking for. I mean, but what you're saying is some people talk about their porn addiction. Well, what does that have to Okay, so you can talk about that?

Yeah. But, ladies,

thank you. How, what does that say about you? What does that say about your brand? What does that say about? What characteristics? Or what lessons did you learn in that, that you want reflected back in your brand story?

Wow, powerful to think of like the words you want people to know you buy or portray your brand. By those words like that is such a great listeners. I hope you're listening to that, because that was a million dollar Golden Nugget right there. Because thinking about how you want to come across first before weaving those stories. That's brilliant. And, you know, however long I've been in business before, I have never heard anyone say that before. No, I've never heard anyone say that. We just have to say, Shannon, that was that was amazing. So interesting way of thinking about it before you go start sharing your stories on your podcasts or sharing, even when you start looking for guests on your show. How do you want to have those stories that are going to be the hero's journey, like you said, and also make your listeners the hero in their own journeys? And what we've discovered in podcasting, is that no have to be the expert on the show. You're the guy that's helping them in their own journey in discovering that. And I think that's the magic solution right there, which has been all done pretty wrong across the board for the last little while on a lot of shows. So thank you for Yeah,

yeah, yeah, you know, vulnerability,

or just like the sharing random, wrong things that turn people off?

Well, you know, a lot of it, you know, when people started saying, Hey, you gotta be authentic. And you got to be vulnerable. Yeah. So people could connect with you. It really, it became this license to be rude. It became this license that, hey, this is who I am. I'm showing up as myself. And you have to like me, even if you don't, you know, there's a consequence. People don't have to like you. You know, just because you got a podcast, doesn't mean people have to like, it doesn't mean people if they've been listened to it. I don't, you know, I think my mom's only listened to one. And that's because they're going off to Portugal. And I interviewed some guy who imports Portuguese, or into the US. So I said, hey, you need to listen to this, because you're gonna go probably see this winery while you're in Portugal, because it's been around for 600 years, and it's one of the biggest ones in Portugal. So I know that she's listened to that one. That, you know, people that love you don't exactly have to like everything that you're doing, you know, if you're going to show up and do stupid things and say stupid things, be willing to own it and own the consequence of it. It is okay. Hey, especially like in the States right now with all like, what is tomorrow they there they they vote tomorrow? Was that it? But anyway. You can never remember it's like the same day every time but you think I can remember I can but you know, divided they are right now. Between the political everything down there is a political issue. And they're highly divided. Even Twitter, my goodness, Whoopi Goldberg just said, Hey, I'm getting off Twitter because Elon Musk owns it now. You know, and he just kicked off Kathy Griffin for impersonating him. Oh, my goodness. It's like, Oh, my It's like a crazy opera. Like how can you want to sit there and watch it with a chord?

Right? What does that do to those people's brands that are now behaving in that way? Like there is any Oh,

well, I really don't understand why people really think Elon Musk is this great thing because I look at him and go, What up. But, you know, down there, they're this huge diversity of people can do go into these camps of social movements or even in Canada, Canada, we had the truckers thing area, right, we had the Occupy, you know, in the States, they actually went into the capitol buildings here, we just stand around them. And it's the same thing. But you can do that as a business or as a person, as long as you're willing to only have those people that are like minded in your sphere, and do business with them. You cannot get upset. If someone decides that they don't want to do business with you, if they don't want to work with you, if they don't want to be employed by you. That's okay. Because you're being authentic to who you are, and you're staying within your sphere. Yeah, minute it becomes a problem is when you start telling people blaming them for your choices, or say you should I'm, uh, I believe in the convoy. And you're wrong, because you don't, I'm right, because I do. When you start getting into those arguments, that's when you start upsetting people. And once you start upsetting people, you start creating these, you're lecturing at them, you're not telling them a story, you're lecturing them, you're saying this is the way it is because this is the way I think you're not telling a story anymore. You're lecturing. And what happens when we lecture, we move back, we bet we you know,

we have barriers between us and who barriers,

right? It's like boom, defensive, and automatically, you know, every time my ex was started lecturing me guess what? Oh, defensive, defensive, Shannon came into the room? And do you think we could solve anything? No. Because when you're not coming at it from a story, and you're coming at it from a lecture and a blame game, that's when it becomes a problem. So you can be vulnerable, and you can be authentic, just understand what that means. And do not get have a hissy fit, especially on social media. If somebody says you're rude, because chances are, you're being rude to them. via your message when you give a message when you're right now, me talking to you people out there, hello, hello, hello, what I'm saying the intent of what I'm saying does not matter. matters is what you're interpreting what I'm saying. Because that is going to affect how you feel. And as it affects your emotions and how you feel that will determine whether or not you like me. Now, either I gotta be okay with the fact that you don't like me. And if I'm okay with the fact that you don't like me, and that's okay, because this is who I am. And I'm really good with who I am. That's fine. But I'm gonna get upset because you don't like me. Then we have, then there's this problem. And then there's this conflict that's going on. And then we have what's happening on Twitter.

Thank you, Twitter. Well, I think there's been so many people that say, you know, if you're not, you know, pissing people off, you don't have haters, you're not being like true and authentic. And like all these things. And it's just like, Do we really have to get to the bar to be like sharing an impactful message? I don't think so. I don't think so.

There I think you can be if, because there are people out there who are people pleasers, that's their authentic self is to please other people, that's authentic. That's okay. There's other people who, you know, are more in the center of the political sphere, line or whatever. And they got one foot in each camp, and they can see the points of each side. They're very diplomatic, diplomatic, diplomacy, diplomacy, they're very good at diplomacy. That's okay. They don't have any enemies, because they're able to compromise make everybody feel like they've become a little winner. That's okay. That's who they are. That's authentic. You don't need to have enemies and haters, unless you want them. I mean, Joe Rogan's of the world, they use controversy, to get publicity. And by getting publicity by being controversial, they're able to attract more people like them, because more people who are like them hear about him. Right? Right. You can sit there and talk about Trump all day long. Whether you're for him or against him or whatever. And if nobody hears it, it's nothing. But when you're being so controversial, and you're doing it with people that have a name, all of a sudden you get the publicity. And when you get the publicity, people start paying attention and they go, Oh, he thinks like I do, and then you start attracting it. And then only having some controversy because our big media only like saying it if you know what? Cause they like. They like controversy because we click on it. If we clicked on all the happy stories and not the bad stories, noncontroversial things, they would give us what we want. You can't play media for giving us what we want. True. Yeah, very true. If they look at an algorithm and they go, this story, got us more eyeballs, then this story. So we're gonna write more stories like anything just giving us we want that it's just a reflection of society. And we don't want to take ownership of that. So we blame. Yeah,

yeah. And prime example of that is the huge popularity of all the crime podcast and you know, they've just, they're just exploding. I was talking to a girl the other day, we're going to take on her editing. Her podcast is only a few months old and millions of downloads. I was like, wow, yeah, these really other cool podcasts are to so many crazy things in the world, are struggling to get 1000 Downloads link, man.

Yeah, you're talking about something highly controversial and have really loud opinion about it. But it's probably also someone who did the legwork ahead of time. Because a lot of these people that have this overnight success is because they bought big social media accounts to begin with, or they partner with someone who does.

Yeah. And for those who are listening right now that are still on the fence of starting a podcast, what would you say to them

right now? Well, first, you have to figure out why you want to do it. Because it's a lot of work. And you don't get paid for that work. And then one day, you're like me, trying to figure out okay, got my last five bucks. So what am I going to do pay my rent with five bucks or go to McDonald's and see if I can buy a little burger, you know, it's, you have to pay attention to the fact that this is going to take you away from your pain work, unless you figure out a way to make it work for you. So if you know that you're going to take this podcast, and because you want to talk to people who you who would be potential clients, perfect reason to have a broadcast, and you're going to enjoy doing it because you're gonna be talking to people who wouldn't have talked to you otherwise. And then you can kind of get into a little bit of sales stuff, and then they're in your email list. If you're doing it because you want popularity to make a lot of money, then it's not this is not neat, make money easy, quick, fast.

2000. That's where you should have been at that was even even

then, you know, even then, because it was more even more work because they didn't have all the tools. But it wasn't popular. Right? Only, you know, so yes, there was less podcasts out there. But there was less people listening to, and less ways to listen. So if you didn't, you know, only 50% of the population likes apple. So if they weren't on Apple at the time, then you didn't hear you didn't hear the app of the podcasts. But the other thing is, is if you really want to do it, you got to commit, you got to commit and you got to do it. I mean, the editing alone could kill you. I am doing way too many things, I'm spread way too thin. So don't do what I'm doing. Don't do like when you're doing your your funnel, your marketing funnel, you need brand awareness, that's your social media, publicity, whatever podcasting comes into that authority piece. So if your brand needs to be an authority and be seen as an authority, then you need to have something like a podcast, or a book, or a blog, or a magazine, something that lets people know who you are and what you do an email newsletter, all of those things are authority, pick one, I've picked all of them, just you don't have to call them. I work in but that's this is the area that I work. And this is the area that I love to help people in is this authority and credibility piece. And then from there, you then got to figure out okay, the next piece is, you know that you got their interest, and then you have to help them make a decision. Well, that's a totally different platform than your podcast. So it's not going to make you sales. It's, it might open doors for you. And there's other ways to profit off of it. Which I'm sure you've learned

about. Oh, yeah. Yeah, and opening doors using the podcast as a tool, I think is really where people need to focus their attention on making it work for their businesses that using it as a leverage piece and authority. He's right.

It's not a business. Yeah. I mean, some people have made it into a business. Yeah. And you can for sure you can. But I would say don't go into it thinking that it's going to be a business.

Yeah. Where I think I see the most success with podcasters is in the space where they have a proven program or service already. They are making money in their business, they add the podcasting as fuel to the fire, which then opened allows them to get in front of the right people by their joint venture partners, or potential new clients. And that makes it work for their business. And then have someone else edit it right.

Where are they? Yeah, exactly. You have? I mean, I would say have a team I did 100 podcasts. 100 days. Amazing. So that's 101 hour podcast edited one day for 100 days.

Very cool. That's on your own podcast, he don't do that. That he was on your own podcast, that's great.

It was on my own podcast, do not do that. You know, figure out how much time you can you can apply to it. But the big thing is, is what's holding you back? Why aren't you doing it? If it's fear, if you're scared, give me a call. And take my hey, let's get over the fear thing. Of course, because that's, you know, I, I live with fear every single day of my life, I wake up in fear. So I have learned how to manage it very well. Because I do the one thing that scares most people. I put my work out into the internet. I stand up on stages, I leave myself open. I put you know, I stay in there. Hey, look, Everybody look at me. And there's a lot of things that could come at me, because I leave myself wide open. And I'm able to do that because I'm able to manage my fear. So it's, that's why I have a program to help people manage their fear. Because it isn't, you don't have to be deer in the headlights. You don't have to be standing there with your feet and concrete. too scared to talk into a microphone.

Yeah, absolutely. I waited four years because I was in that fear of paralysis analysis and all sorts of other fear of technology and all sorts of things. So I can tell you don't wait for years like I did. In fact it amplify you we have a tagline that says if you're not embarrassed by your first few episodes, once you get going and 20 episodes in, then you're way too damn long to get them out

there. Right.

Right. That fear right can paralyze you. And so Shannon, where can people find out more about that program? All the other amazing things that you do I know you've got so many great resources and so many great programs for entrepreneurs, especially if you're confusing your branding, your brand stories. Reach out to Shannon she's a wealth of knowledge, as you can hear like she knows what she's talking about. She's been there done that and is written many books can help you.

So there's a few things wrought by market appeal.com. And of course, that appeal spelt wrong. Its market a P E, L. But you know what? Just Google Shannon peel. And you'll find me. And if you like the fact that I dominate five or six pages of Google, then talk to me about how I did that. And how you can do that too. That is a big piece as well. You have to have enough content out there that when people Google your name, you show up. So if you just Google shannonville you'll find me you'll find market appeal.com And it'll take you to that web page. They'll say okay, well here's market appeal. Here's brand appeal, here's crate appeal, here's book appeal and here's on field

and it was really we can play off with something funny like that like and now you're at the peelers or you know, whatever we can play off of that I think it would be amazing

get I need to get well with creative people as it grows and as I get people in there you know I'm gonna have a group of people in my fans like once I get like a lot of fans, okay, you guys are the pillars if you're in the UK pillar means one thing if you're in Western Canada, in the western US it means something totally different.

You're awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here with us today and amplify you spend a lot of fun chatting with you and make sure you guys go check out brand appeal podcast as well leave her review give her some love. And I can't wait to chat again sometime soon. Any last words for our podcasters before we leave today? Oh well,

I could really Use that love. Let me tell you, you know, for those, those people out there who are solopreneurs and go, you know doing the empty nester thing. You totally know what I'm talking about any kind of love is good love. But if you get on there and find, if you go by brand appeal, you're going to see that you can download my latest little mini ebook in my little mini ebook is called Brand appeal. Oh, talk about stocks. It's only 10 pages and it helps you it goes into what is brand brand storytelling, and it starts you off on defining your brand story. From there, you'll get a lot of information.

Awesome, awesome. Hurry, you guys will go out there and have a great day. Great week. Shannon, thank you so much. Again, you've been fantastic. Amplify you audience, members, family as we call them, amplify your family. Go there. Have a fabulous week. Remember your voice is important needs to get out there in the world. And you are awesome. Have a great week everyone.