The Right People to Grow Your Aligned Practice

Align Your Practice podcast with Dr. Cliff Fisher where your best practice and life awaits you. Are you tired of running a practice on your own? We want to come alongside you with experts to help you create your dream practice in your dream life. Here is your host.

All right, Dr. Welcome back to align your practice with Dr. Cliff and Dr. Joe brought to you by line life where we want to give you the tools to find and create your aligned life. I'm super excited today, because we're talking about one of my favorite things is people. And Joe, I know you have great insights. And so I'm super excited to hear about where we're gonna go today. Talking about having the right people on the right bus going the right direction, doing the right work the right way. There's so many writes about this. And we miss it usually by the first step. What's your first thought on that? Joe? Are we talking about people?

Yeah, I think of most of the problems in the clinics is obviously people problems either find it many different aspects, even in the ad to get the person the right person into the clinic, to onboarding, right, then training developing. There's so many steps to build that dream team. I think people want to hire a dream team. You don't hire JPMA Hey, great people, and then you create a great team. Right? So

man, we've learned that right? Like in the line life, I know, in our our core values, one of them was like we hired inspired people, because we build great teams. So I think that's the same like exactly what you're talking about. Like, that's a huge, I've never heard you say that. And I just love that, like you don't hire a great team, you hire great people. And our job is to build a great team.

That's a great point. And I think that's a good way to start is that it we have it as inspired leadership. And my lesson learned is that you can't really just inspire people that aren't inspired people. It's tough. So when we wrote that, and we clarify that core value, is when people are passionate, inspired about bigger things than themselves in life, you can usually, you know, look at their talents, their their innate talents, you could develop skills, but you can't really create inspiration, if that makes sense. That's an inborn, inborn concept. So that's how we created that one core value. So let's break that down a little bit. If we look at people problems, and the majority of the problems in the clinic, and when we're looking at that, we'll, if we go back to how we started this thing, we looked at Vision, traction, people, data, issues and process that we'll if any of the listeners remember that were one of the six sections today, which I know for you, it's your forte, which is his people.

That's been a painful journey. Because, you know, like, I like everybody. And I'm always like, Oh, I can make that person work in whatever role versus like, it's a lot of work is a way different lift. And when we talk about inspiring people, I'd say inspired people are people that are on purpose. And so when they're in the right role, and they're doing their job, they're in the right, they're on purpose versus like, we hire somebody, we're like, oh, man, I liked them, they have the same purpose. But they're not hardwired to do that job. Like, you know, if you hire somebody to run the front desk there, they need to be that extra people love and they're the life of the party versus you hire somebody who's in the back there, the analytical the numbers, and you switch those people, they're both miserable, and they both suck at their job.

And they'll lose their inspiration. So you can pull the fire in somebody by having them in the wrong seat. So I think when you're young in business, sometimes you think it's just the wrong person. And when you learn that just in the wrong seat, and you can actually get a lot more of their innate genius out of them and more impacted the business by having the same person in a different seat. And that's usually not what people ever think about when they're building their organization is that they just think it's the wrong person, period, right? Sometimes.

And I think a lot of times they make a mistake. And this realization came to me in the last couple of months, is that when we think about hiring our First Person, it was like, Oh, who should be my first hire? And I kept trying to answer that question, realizing, like, if I looked at you and I, our first hire would be probably a different person. And so the first hire is yourself, you have to understand who you are, where you fit on the bus, and then you're like, cool, who do I need to be my co pilot in that? Because you and I probably need two different people.

That's very interesting. That's very interesting. So yes, you want to balance out the organization, even from the first hire. If you're the doctor and you're the owner, and you're a heavy extrovert dominant personality, then you're gonna have to have someone systems based that may be somewhat introverted, less dominant, more compliant, right. I mean, that's not exactly so it's not always the same. That's that's a good lesson learned cliff.

Totally him because like exactly So you're speaking like, you have the high energy. So I don't, I don't have that high energy. So my first hire would be either somebody with high energy, or somebody who's going to be real numbers oriented. So I would have to make that decision. Right away, like, what am I trying to get fill? And so for you, like you have the high energy high dominance. So yours is a super clear like, Yep, I need somebody who's going to run the numbers, do that back end that operator. And so mine, I have this little weird balance.

Yeah. And I think, you know, it's important for those students or young doctors listening to the podcast to understand that innately, what you're going to do, and you open your first clinic, and you are excited to get going, and you're going to hire and start interviewing, never interviewed before, and you know, you got your checklist ready, and you got these people in front of you, there's going to be someone in front of you that, let's say you are a extrovert, the example I was using high dominance, high extraversion, someone's sitting with you. And as a player, they're dominant, they're heavy personality, they're very extroverted, just like you, and you fall in love with that person, like, Oh, my God, it's the greatest person ever. And then this quiet, analytical, refined, introverted person comes in very different than your personality like I don't, I don't relate with him or her as much, and you don't hire them. And you're missing the boat is what you end up doing. Especially your first hire. I don't know, anyone whose first hire was in someone they really liked, who was like that. So I don't know any friend or colleague over 30 years that didn't hire their first hire someone who, who they liked because it was like themselves, and didn't make the big mistake, which is now you have to have you and you you got a big glaring gap in your business. And what I've seen happen over the last 25 years is that when people hire wrong, their first higher than hire wrong, their second hire, and then hire wrong, the third hire, they start thinking they're in the wrong profession. They start thinking they're not built for business, they start thinking they can't do this, because they don't think it's a wrong hire, they start questioning them. And that could be an I've seen this a 10 year pain cycle. It literally therapy, literally, maybe breaking the marriage literally may be leaving the profession. That's how serious this conversation on people is, is that you didn't have someone to support you and do what they need to do. And that same person, the fourth hire is a rockstar that fits your gap and boom, you exploded. You're like, oh my god, I'm great. Everything's great, right? I mean, oh, yeah, I'm speaking to a lot of people probably listening right now is that that have done that?

Yeah, I know, for me, like I went through, I think 12 or 13 people, my first year of, like, CPAs. And then we found one that stuck for a while. But I still honestly didn't really understand who I needed to hire. And so I think that's where the tools like that align life that we have. And that we've know how to utilize and know how to put people in certain places. Because as soon as you recognize who somebody is hardwired to be, you stop trying to force them to do the job, that they're not. And the next part of that is, you know, we'll talk more about next time a little bit on the or no, it's this time is the org chart, like knowing your org chart where people go and what kind of person you need for that. Because just like you said, you hire people who are like you, and then you want them to fill that gap that you don't have. That's why

you want to contradict their value to themselves and make them fill a role that they don't want to do, they shouldn't do. And it's not going to provide any benefits your business. I gotta tell this funny story. My first hire was a dominant personality, extrovert, like myself, and really very aggressive. And she's at the front desk, and that patient comes in. And she says, she asked her, I forget how it went. But she he's the gentleman's at the front desk. And she says to him, I just heard this phrase, you know what, this place is really expensive. If I didn't work here and get free care, there's no way in hell I'd be paying for this. That was the new patient. So it was funny because I didn't have a manual. I didn't train her. I just told her to answer the phone and schedule people. Like I didn't know what I was doing. But it was just the funniest story 20 years later to think back at that. So let's go to the let's go to the accountability. Charlie, let's dive into that and understand if you would speak to that a little bit. If you have to people cliff, why am I going to create an accountability chart? You have all these boxes? It's me and a staff. Let me wait until I grow this thing cliff and then I'll fill out the accountability chart.

Wow, great question. So for me the accountability chart. So what I found on my accountability charts now versus as you grow, so when you first start your names on almost all the boxes, but you know who what your strengths are so right now, like I can do that, but I'm not good at it. But right now, that's who we have. So then

so what you're saying is, if you're the clinic director, and you're also managing finances, you're in that box, you're also the market or you're on that box, maybe your staff is at the front desk. And you're also doing the back office in your name literally is in that box, and you're doing back office, like you're going home, you're doing billing and paying payroll at night, you're doing that whole role. And you're doing the marketing and your name is actually in that box. So Cliff Fisher, if you're the doc, you're on the top, you're on the right, you're on the left, you're in like literally five boxes, that's what you're saying is you have that chart and my name would or your name would be in all those, right?

Yeah. So like in a line life, we have, we have a chart that shows you we have 15, different boxes, all these things happen in your business, whether you're conscious or unconscious of them. And so then what we want is we want people to be conscious. So then if we have a two team member, team, like one team member will have their their name and four or five of those, and then the doctor, typically the owner in the beginning will have his intent. And so

So the purpose of that what you're saying is that the job has to be done. Regardless, I love Stephen France, in scenarios like basketball, he's like, are you gonna not, you're not going to take the rebound, because that's not your job, or you're not going to shoot because you're not, you know, it's like, no, you got to do that. If it's a pickup game, and you're playing, just you against the guy or two of you gets to, you got to pick up all the roles, you got to shoot, you got to guard, you got to rebound, you got to play the game, right? Because you got to, you got to win the game. So business, Cliff is saying the roles of the roles, you're gonna have to do it. And when you have, what I've seen a clip before this call is business is so beautiful, because it's all about self awareness. When you realize you're doing the job anyway, and you refine and quantify what the job should do, then you can replace yourself because you know what the job should be. And you realize I'm doing half the job, the job description, half of it because I got five other jobs. When you hire that, the question I would ask you is how quick does that person become an asset, because they're gonna do the whole role, the full role full time. And it comes asset, usually so fast. But when we hire someone, you don't have these accountability chart or job description, you just kind of fill them in a piece of this, and you never know if they're valuable because you never fill the true roll. Does that make sense?

Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense. And I think that's what a lot of times when we start out, we're like, okay, you're good at this, you do this, oh, you're good at this, you do this. So just like back to your basketball thing. It's like, when you start, you're like, okay, cool, we're gonna play two on two. So you have two players. So somebody's a point guard, somebody's the, you know, guard, somebody's the, you know, center and all that. But then as you graduate, you start to build your team, then you start to have that five man six man team, then all of a sudden, now those you have specific players who do who are specialists at each one of those versus expert at all. So when you first start, you have to become an expert at all of them. And so where you end up is, then those allow you to say, okay, cool, your expert is in this. So our next hire is going to be something that's different than that versus like, my first, I don't know, 510 years in practice, like I just, I had people not roles. And so what we want to do is create roles. And that's what alignment has done is we've built roles. And then you hire people to fit those roles and their skill set would match that.

Yeah, and that's great. And I think in our profession and the chiropractic profession, I find that we, we usually skimp on scaling the team, and we scale too late, and we burn out our teams. And we don't reach our potential because we're understaffed, and culturally and as being a chiropractor myself, I think sometimes we look at staff as liability, payroll, more people. And I think it's important that culturally to change the story that you have about people because I made the mistake in my hiring and my perception of people is that I lost that last 40% growth in my clinics, I was scaling, like one clinic a year and I kept going, and I made the mistake of not building out the teams like I should have when I was young. And I think that's something that I want doctors chiropractors listening to understand is that you want to hire as your momentous growth is occurring before you're actually ready. So may eat up literally 30% of your profit. But it's going to help you scale to that next level. So on this on the build section, when you're really growing, I think you better overstaffed to a degree, not to the point you're in pain in your negative, but when taken a piece of your net to help that momentous growth. And the way to do that is when you have that the first step that was seen is the accountability chart. But the accountability chart is just the category so you can understand cognitively, that there's different jobs. But the beauty happens when you add what's called a KPI or a number, a statistic that you're measuring for that job detail. So it was me and I'm the clinic director. And I'm also the the holding marketing, the accountability of marketing. I know how many new patients I'm generating. So when I replaced myself, because I did the job, because I had the awareness to make that accountability chart. It wasn't just all one big mess. But I had the chart. And I knew how many new patients I was doing 12 a month, and I replaced myself in 90 day, excuse me, 90 days were 18. I know I have an asset in 90 days of a staff because I measured before I had a benchmark and then I put myself in. That was big for me, Cliff, I don't know if you can comment on that. But I was so against hiring, I kept thinking it was an expense. And I never knew what I was doing before I hired. So I never knew when it was an asset. And I always thought they were a liability. Yeah, the whole journey for 10 years. So do you feel that like when it's like, you know, if it's an asset in 60 days on a new hire, that's so refreshing for a doctor or a business owner, that you actually have more revenue with that person, so you could celebrate them, reward them, give them bonus them, because they brought more success to the business in months, not years?

100% Yeah, like, one of the things I've seen more as of lately is like we we would run into a roadblock where like, okay, cool, we need to hire, we would then get up to a space and we're like, Okay, now we're ready to hire again. Versus like, now I'm like, okay, cool. We have biomarkers, now I'm like, at this point, things are going well, it seems like we're over hiring, but you want to be that one half person to one person over, we hire that person, then the momentum continues to go. Like you said, Steven France and one of his favorite thing is spend the money you're going to lose, like, I would rather spend that money invested in my company and grow faster, versus lose that because as soon as we lose momentum, it's going to take us two or three months to get that back versus if I hire right. And we have mile markers where you want to hire. And it's, you know, when you're hiring there, you're keeping that momentum going. It's like keeping that ball rolling versus like the ball stopping and then trying to get it to roll again.

But you can't hire, you can't spend the money you're gonna lose and you can't hire faster. If you don't have these core pieces. If you don't have the accountability chart, you know what you're hiring to, if you don't have the KPI, because what we do, and the reason you're not hiring Now, if you're on this call, and on this podcast, and you're in that fear base, and you're overstretched, the reason you're not hiring is because you're not measuring and you're probably not going to fire fast. Yeah, you know, it's probably a five year journey of pain, which it's not, it's a 90 day journey of pain if you don't have an asset on your team, and 90 days, and there's so much cliff to this. There's training as onboarding there's, there's so much depth to this. And as you mature in business, you will aggressively leverage a growing team and hire before you're ready in order to realize your potential. So there's so much meat in that cliff on my journey in business. And I'll give one more example. I always make fun of our profession. Because I can do that as a chiropractor, right? I'm allowed to make fun of myself in our profession. I say, especially in the online life matrix is we look at an integrated experience that we've worked for 20 years and constantly working to refine, how do we integrate service for in the chiropractic office? How do we monetize it? How do we make sure there's good outcome right? And integrating additional services in any business could be a liability. First an asset and that's the struggle in healthcare as you don't want to create liabilities. I read in the book by Al Ries focus. And he talked about when Heinz added mustard to their from ketchup to mustard, multibillion dollar company, of course, they can make mustard, they lost billions, because the focus was ketchup. And when they added busted, it didn't work for the game. So just adding more services to chiropractic office, most of the time you're going to lose because you diversify yourself that you spread too thin. But I the point of me make fun of the profession is we would hire if we ran a hospital as a chiropractor. We would add an oncology department and say, Hey, talk to the pediatricians. Hey, guys, can you just run the oncology department just let me I want to get it off the ground. Like, I know you work with kids. But listen, we have a bunch of cancer patients come in and just to help me out. Can you guys run that department just for the first couple years just to save money? And that's what we do. So we would get the wrong person to run a new department without any budget or any space and we would hope that they could help us get to a point that we can hire people. In fact else, the pediatric department lost half of their money because the pediatricians were trying to run it up department they didn't know, right? So in a line life, we have an integrated experience. And the concepts that we've learned is we launched nutrition, like weight loss as a component to handle body composition in the chiropractic office. Well, we said, well, let's wait until we hit a certain revenue. But the new model is a health coach is hired when the chiropractor starts, because that's the vision. That's the mission that we're trying to do. And we got to serve those people in that department. Does that make sense in that? And do you see what I did is Cairo and a lot of people do is they have another department, and they want the doctor to run nutrition or the doctor to to?

Right, yeah, 100% like Joe on that, like, I totally agree with you. Like we have an office, it's, you know, it's starting to hit its stride doing really well. We wanted to bring in decompression. And so what we did was, instead of asking that one doctor to do that, we're like, okay, we need to find somebody who owns that project we brought that doctor in was like, alright, you get this off the ground. And so we're bringing him on a little bit, because we don't quite need another doctor in that office yet. But then that's the on ramp for both of us. Like he gets familiar with our office. And then he owns and starts a system that he'll hand off to a team member, ultimately, but most of the time, because if I would have asked Mack to say, Hey, do this, and this, his chiropractic practice would have shrunk and then he wouldn't end up doing

either one. And the key to the whole thing is he would have rationalized Oh, yeah. Then if it didn't work, well, I'm doing and you would have been accommodating because he's doing this other thing. So as the leader, you would compromise as the implementer, he would compromise and we would rationalize your way to loss is to hire the new person, and they're not successful, they're gone. And guess what your other doctor is going to pick up the slack anyway, if you're right, they're going to pick up the slack. If it doesn't work, so why not try to make make it work. So I don't know. I love that. I love that angle, knowing that in 90 days, if it doesn't work, you let go of that person that's not producing, and you're gonna pick up the slack anyway. Yeah.

And the clarity has been incredible. We're like, we're like, Chris, you own this. And he's like, take total ownership of it. He's killing it. Like he's like, he's owning the project. And it's not taking away from Mack who's the primary, the clinic. And so it's so critical to do that. The health coach thing, same thing, like if you're gonna bring that on, you have to have somebody who owns that full out.

So my concept and a health coach, you know, I like is that we have a health coach, that is outgoing, that is passionate about health, and chiropractic. And they are a month before the clinic opens. They're at corporate wellness talks, talking about wellness, giving a 10 minute talk, they're at the screenings, they're at the health fairs. They're at the runs, they're there already. And they run the inside lifestyle component of the chiropractic office. They're doing body compositions on every new person. There's assisting the Cairo day one from the first opening. And I think that's really the way when you want to do multiple departments is make sure that you have that person hired before you launch the department. So I'm excited to hear how is that working? Well already that movie made? Or are you in the midst of testing.

So we've been working on it for three months, it's been in the background. So we've had we had to order all the stuff, make sure all our pieces were in order. We've been doing training, we start marketing next week. And then the following week is really when we had the kickoff of the decompression. So it's been a really strategic plan. Versus like, okay, cool. Let's get this stuff. Let's try it out. Like we've we've talked about it, this is in q3, it was organizing, getting a strategy for everything. q4 was the launch. And so we're right in the middle of that. And so just a multiple quarter.

So So you're right, most most people would launch decompression, they would have the doctor who said managing adjusting patients do the decompression, they would market it with just their patient base, they would not externally market it because they said let's test would be a testing, they would track the staff and not have any more focus, there wouldn't be a strategy would be just another piece of equipment. And then that same doctor would be doing nutrition and doing other, right, the same person. Now great, great, great dialogue, close.

So I think the biggest thing like the biggest takeaway, so there'll be two tools in here. We'll put in some accountability charts, because, you know, inside of chiropractic, you know, offices or offices, so align life's credit and now next Ultimate. And so when you asked about how we use our accountability chart, I use it as a now, next and an ultimate. So right now, here's my team. My next is who's my next one to three hires, and I put one Asterix by my next one two asterisks by my one after that and my three Asterix by the one after that, and so that's really how value Well, that accountability or org chart is this because it's telling you where do I need to go next. And it's recognizing the people that you have. And then it's not

keeping an emotional because you have it analytically. Because if we just on the fly, there's no on the fly, he knows what his next hire is right now. And it could be a year from now. But he could modify it and strategize on it. But you know, that next step, which is, if so important for business,

then one of the things in the order that I really like, and then I'm seeing is like, we also have, where people can send, so we have an ascension plan. So then what I do is I do one person's hear that, and then I have an arrow to the next job they're ascending to, so that they know and then I know, I need to then hire backfill that part, or they're going to be running both jobs. So like my office manager right now, and one of my offices, right now it's the Clinical Director. They're the clinical director and office manager, but we're bringing this person, she's our checkout CA, she's ascending the office manager, so then her next quarter, q1, she's going to be the office manager, and the checkout ca because she can run both of those at the size of that clinic. But there's another role she's doing the marketing director, where that's my next hire, so then I'm hiring that person that will work with her in that. So understanding like your whole org chart, and we'll send our we'll put both of our org charts on there, we have our now and ultimate. And that's how you use those.

And it's not only for the owner to understand the accountability chart, because you're gonna have like the three, three top things are accountable for three to five top things they're accountable for. So if there's a gap in the clinic, when you're a dream team, a team driven practice versus a doctor in practice, and there's a gap, guess what your team can do? They go to the accountability chart and see who's in charge of that. And then they have, like a vulnerability based trust, which is where you can go up to someone say, Hey, isn't that your job? And the chart? Yeah, I noticed that that dropped, and you have you have a discussion. And there's like internal mature management of the team by the team in a way that takes less effort from the management. So it's not just for you, as the owner or the manager, it's for the team to know who's responsible, right. Like in basketball, if I knew you're doing rebounds, I should know that when I get on the court, you're you're going to be handling the rebounds. If I don't I know that I you go, when am I going? Yeah. So that's really important scorecards. Is that something we finish up on here? Or do you want to

scorecards was what we talked about in data and so so that's how we help manage that. So that gives us visibility into whether people are doing their job well. So that's scorecards we talked about in the data we talked

about already, but just to I know, we got to tighten up, close up this particular podcast. But to tie that together, I My recommendation for you, if you ready for the next hire, is start with the scorecard. Know what you're measuring the day that you hire, and start with the scorecard. The job description is a list of behaviors that you feel are best to create the outcome on the scorecard that can be modified, but the job is based on reaching an outcome based on the scorecard. If you do not reach that scorecard in the first month, then that's an issue. And by the second month, if they don't hit that, they don't hit that goal, then they go under like a rapid improvement plan, where you're getting behind them with more training, more budget, more system, more support you get behind them, if they don't reach any of the goal, within 90 days, you're most likely going to have to let go of that particular individual. So don't think when you hire you have such fear that this is a three year commitment. Hire slow, but fire fast, but hire before you desperately need the person. That's my ending lessons for this particular podcast is don't feel scared that you're chained to that person. Because upfront, you're going to let them know and be clear. All you got to do is have clear expectation. And then you can follow it tell the new staff member where this is the expectation after month one, if we don't hit it, by month two, we're going to go under rapid improvement plan and maybe a probationary process. If we don't have that number, again, by the third month, this may not be the best fit for you. And say that upfront. So there's accountability, there's authenticity, there's expectation, and you don't you don't wait to hire another two years before you bring that new person on. That's my final advice. How about you?

Yeah, and just don't lose the momentum. And so then the the second spot is, you know, we're talking about when you bring somebody on your head that there should be a competency onboarding, like those, that's a lot of the tasks. So if they can't do that, they're probably not gonna be able to do the job. So when we're saying like, we're not asking him to master this job at that first 30 days, but we're saying, Okay, here's your job for the first 30 days. You need to finish the competency checklist, great. Boom. And then you know, one of the things if you guys are thinking what's the company checklist that's have a conversation with align like because We do have those competency checklists built out. And that's usually where the biggest issue is people don't have clarity on what they should be doing. And then the so I totally agree with you on that, Joe than this. The second place is, as you grow your team, you want to make sure that they have clarity. And then you also want you as an owner, are they on purpose? So we have a people analyzer that analyzes how our team is, are they on purpose? Do they have the right talent? Are they the right person? Do they get it one that has the capacity to do it? Do they align with the core values, so we have this whole spreadsheet that walks you right through that. So that will also be included in this one, so that you can look at your team. And then because a lot of times, you don't need to let go of them, you just need to put them in a different seat. I don't know how many times I did that Joe, I had somebody who I was like a numbers person, I had them run in the front desk. They were an introvert didn't even like being out there. But they got a lot of stuff done. So I liked that. But then the patients weren't happy. Versus then I had somebody who was like, all like the life of the party, everybody loved her. But she didn't get any work done. And I'm like, I was going nuts. I'm like, You're not even doing your job. She's like, I am doing my job. And the practice was growing and blowing up. And so just recognizing the rules, I think is the most critical thing, if you can understand who goes where, and then why that will grow your practice the fastest.

So you're saying you're gonna put in this podcast links below the people analyzer, they can use that the team kind of rates and you can see your team, it's a really good way of seeing if they're in the right seat on the bus of your of your practice. So that's a great asset for you guys. And yes, if you guys are interested in what align life does, if you have a practice, we were doing some really deep what's on the practice everything from team, to marketing, to infrastructure to your build out? Is it efficient for flow, we've designed a very advanced way of assessing a practice to kind of take a bird's eye view of where the low hanging fruit is, where's the resistance in your practice for you to gain that next level? So if you haven't grown, and you're in a stagnated point, and you're looking for some answers, the Align life practice audit process is pretty, pretty revolutionary. Just reach out, we'd love to help you with that. But for now, use the tools that cliff handy below and I think this was a good discussion while needed for probably most people that are owning running the clinic.

Yeah, 95% of your problems in an office are people problems. And then 95% of the answers honestly are in that accountability chart that we'll put in there, that shows who's doing what, why they're doing it. And so lean in on that. And us next time, we're going to be talking about quarterly rocks and meeting poles. So we'll be talking about rocks, like how do those what are those mean? And then meeting pulses? What meetings should we be having? Because nobody wants more meetings. But by missing the meetings, you're you're having more one on one meetings rather than group meetings and discussions. So we'll talk about the best way they'll lay that out over the year. So thank you guys very much, and take care of your people. They're the most important part of your business and they are the biggest ROI and training is going to give you the biggest ROI. So thank you very much.